EMCAD80
03-03-2003, 10:15 AM
Hey all...
I am also a member of the May-December message board @ ivillage.com. When confronted w/ my situation, many people posted and told me to distance myself from my OM. You know the old saying "if you let it go, and it comes back...it's yours forever"....well from a man's point of view, here was his response to all the posts to me:
The very last thing you should do is distance yourself, if you are at all interested in him.
[And by the way the advice below, I believe applies, maybe even more strongly, to the young men in young man-older woman relationships, just flip the labels.]
The problem with many older men is that, at least as regards young girls [please even note the way I have said it], is that these older men, feel like they are doing something wrong, taking advantage of a poor, helpless young infant person, for their own EVIL advantage. He hasn't. I can tell that from your post. But the reason that he thinks this is because nearly all of the people around him are telling them that this is exactly what he is doing. Your guy knows what male friends his age would say if he told them he wanted to go out romantically with their daughter. Even telling the married female friends his age that he is even occasionally on a "buddy date" with someone young causes those female friends to get really wierd and do extremely odd things--send stalker types his age after him, hide their daughters (even to sending out of the room he enters when the daughters want to talk to him for other reasons-like career counseling, etc.), constantly try to set him up (and I don't mean arrange dates, I mean arrange ambushes), etc. [and the list goes on both annoyingly and endlessly. And if he divorced someone, the responses are infinitely worse, especially from his own female relatives. Now not all of this may apply exactly to your fellow, but it has a factual basis in my own personal experience and the experience of a number of men similarly situated--we have to talk about something in bars, you know.]
So, the solution, to the extent that there is one, is really really simple. If you want him, prove to him that you are not a young girl. Prove to him that you know exactly what you are doing. Prove to him that you know exactly who you are. Prove to him that you know exactly what you want. Prove to him that you are a fully mature woman. I know that sounds impossible, but it's not.
First, you need to be a woman. Do you in fact know what you want? Do you in fact know how you feel about this man? He can't even keep himself from blurting out that he loves you. You stay silent. You let him make that into a thing he should apologize for. And you say nothing. THIS IS NOT GOOD. IT IS EXACTLY THE WRONG THING. If I wrote a script for you it would instead have you dancing around the place saying, singing, yelling, [whatever mode you prefer], "You said you loved me, you said you loved me, [repeat at least until he protests]." Or how about some of the following: "No I'm not going to accept your apology, I'm just going to use your body shamelessly for my own needs from now on." "Go make me breakfast; a man who loves me would." "No, you don't get out of this that easily. I'm going to hold you to that." "OK. Why do you love me?" "Does this mean that I get to run and jump on you and hug you in public if I feel like it? It sure better!" "Does this mean you are going to hug me in public on escalators? It better! [I put that one in for Melanie-cl] "Now how much do you love me? Enough to have a bunch of children?" "So when is the wedding?" "How do you feel about children?" Feel free to make him happy, blush or even uncomfortable. Look the elephant is in the room. If you ignore it, that is just not at all grown up. By contrast, in my script, you say whatever you need to in order to force him to acknowledge that you like the fact that he "loves" you, and that it has some grown up implications. And you expect certain things. And that you don't think that it is bad or evil to see grown up implications, but on the whole a wonderful thing. In my script, you tease him and let him know that you know exactly what you want. You let him know you are a grownup by delighting in what you want from him. Know yourself. You have to express how you feel, in completely grownup and adult terms. And do it now. Practice if you need to. It's OK. All the rest of us need practice too.
Second, on the more sad and serious side, you just need to demand the respect that you are entitled to. Let's face it, this is not respect. He is protecting you from himself, which implies that you are an infant. When he says those things, "you're too young", disagree with him. Do so forcefully. Tell him you find it insulting if you do. Frankly IMHO you should. Tell him he's just being silly and insecure. [Most men will do anything not to be "silly and insecure."] As "Father" Bill, your "confessor", I even hereby sanction you bringing out the Big Guns--crying, but it has to be mad crying and not just "helpless" blubbering. Anger is OK. Don't be afraid of telling him that he is not being fair to you. He's not. Somehow, you have to let him know that you consider that line of thinking, which proclaims you a helpless infant, is just totally and completely unacceptable.
Third, neutralize the opposition. Ask him, "Why the hell are you apologizing for loving me? Is someone you know so stupid that they think that is wrong?" [It is likely that his ex-employee, who probably thought it was her place to be involved with him, would be one. Bring her up. Together discuss what a dork she is being.] Demand specifics. Who? What? When? Where? How? Tell him how foolish such notions are with regard to you. Calm him. Give him things to say when he gets oppressed by others.
Fourth, don't be afraid to chase him some. I sincerely assure you, based on your post alone, that you will know if you have gone too far. BUT DON'T WITHDRAW. That would validate entirely his feelings that his love is wrong and something to be apologized for. AND SAY SOMETHING. "Come here; let me tell you what I want", is always a good start. I offer you the following famous, well known and even published love story to illustrate my point further.
There was a man, who managed recording artists, and at age 38, he signed this young 12-year-old female artist who was the youngest of 14 children from a poor family. She was an exceptional girl in all ways. Her voice was to dream of. But also she was very very exceptionally grown up for her age, intelligent, philosophically astute, not spoiled, pampered or willful. In short, she was the perfect artist to manage. Eight years later, one night, at age 20 this girl totally shocked and surprized this then 46 year old man, by trying to seduce him. He actually ran away to his own room in the hotel. He adored her. She was beautiful. He ran. And he wouldn't even answer the phone when she called at first. She was persistant. So later that evening she succeeded. This poor confused 46 year old was trying to treat her as a child. What a joke. At 20, this woman knew exactly what she wanted. His name is Rene Angelil. Her name is Celine Dion.
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Touching, I love this man for writing this post. I think some of us need that :)
I am also a member of the May-December message board @ ivillage.com. When confronted w/ my situation, many people posted and told me to distance myself from my OM. You know the old saying "if you let it go, and it comes back...it's yours forever"....well from a man's point of view, here was his response to all the posts to me:
The very last thing you should do is distance yourself, if you are at all interested in him.
[And by the way the advice below, I believe applies, maybe even more strongly, to the young men in young man-older woman relationships, just flip the labels.]
The problem with many older men is that, at least as regards young girls [please even note the way I have said it], is that these older men, feel like they are doing something wrong, taking advantage of a poor, helpless young infant person, for their own EVIL advantage. He hasn't. I can tell that from your post. But the reason that he thinks this is because nearly all of the people around him are telling them that this is exactly what he is doing. Your guy knows what male friends his age would say if he told them he wanted to go out romantically with their daughter. Even telling the married female friends his age that he is even occasionally on a "buddy date" with someone young causes those female friends to get really wierd and do extremely odd things--send stalker types his age after him, hide their daughters (even to sending out of the room he enters when the daughters want to talk to him for other reasons-like career counseling, etc.), constantly try to set him up (and I don't mean arrange dates, I mean arrange ambushes), etc. [and the list goes on both annoyingly and endlessly. And if he divorced someone, the responses are infinitely worse, especially from his own female relatives. Now not all of this may apply exactly to your fellow, but it has a factual basis in my own personal experience and the experience of a number of men similarly situated--we have to talk about something in bars, you know.]
So, the solution, to the extent that there is one, is really really simple. If you want him, prove to him that you are not a young girl. Prove to him that you know exactly what you are doing. Prove to him that you know exactly who you are. Prove to him that you know exactly what you want. Prove to him that you are a fully mature woman. I know that sounds impossible, but it's not.
First, you need to be a woman. Do you in fact know what you want? Do you in fact know how you feel about this man? He can't even keep himself from blurting out that he loves you. You stay silent. You let him make that into a thing he should apologize for. And you say nothing. THIS IS NOT GOOD. IT IS EXACTLY THE WRONG THING. If I wrote a script for you it would instead have you dancing around the place saying, singing, yelling, [whatever mode you prefer], "You said you loved me, you said you loved me, [repeat at least until he protests]." Or how about some of the following: "No I'm not going to accept your apology, I'm just going to use your body shamelessly for my own needs from now on." "Go make me breakfast; a man who loves me would." "No, you don't get out of this that easily. I'm going to hold you to that." "OK. Why do you love me?" "Does this mean that I get to run and jump on you and hug you in public if I feel like it? It sure better!" "Does this mean you are going to hug me in public on escalators? It better! [I put that one in for Melanie-cl] "Now how much do you love me? Enough to have a bunch of children?" "So when is the wedding?" "How do you feel about children?" Feel free to make him happy, blush or even uncomfortable. Look the elephant is in the room. If you ignore it, that is just not at all grown up. By contrast, in my script, you say whatever you need to in order to force him to acknowledge that you like the fact that he "loves" you, and that it has some grown up implications. And you expect certain things. And that you don't think that it is bad or evil to see grown up implications, but on the whole a wonderful thing. In my script, you tease him and let him know that you know exactly what you want. You let him know you are a grownup by delighting in what you want from him. Know yourself. You have to express how you feel, in completely grownup and adult terms. And do it now. Practice if you need to. It's OK. All the rest of us need practice too.
Second, on the more sad and serious side, you just need to demand the respect that you are entitled to. Let's face it, this is not respect. He is protecting you from himself, which implies that you are an infant. When he says those things, "you're too young", disagree with him. Do so forcefully. Tell him you find it insulting if you do. Frankly IMHO you should. Tell him he's just being silly and insecure. [Most men will do anything not to be "silly and insecure."] As "Father" Bill, your "confessor", I even hereby sanction you bringing out the Big Guns--crying, but it has to be mad crying and not just "helpless" blubbering. Anger is OK. Don't be afraid of telling him that he is not being fair to you. He's not. Somehow, you have to let him know that you consider that line of thinking, which proclaims you a helpless infant, is just totally and completely unacceptable.
Third, neutralize the opposition. Ask him, "Why the hell are you apologizing for loving me? Is someone you know so stupid that they think that is wrong?" [It is likely that his ex-employee, who probably thought it was her place to be involved with him, would be one. Bring her up. Together discuss what a dork she is being.] Demand specifics. Who? What? When? Where? How? Tell him how foolish such notions are with regard to you. Calm him. Give him things to say when he gets oppressed by others.
Fourth, don't be afraid to chase him some. I sincerely assure you, based on your post alone, that you will know if you have gone too far. BUT DON'T WITHDRAW. That would validate entirely his feelings that his love is wrong and something to be apologized for. AND SAY SOMETHING. "Come here; let me tell you what I want", is always a good start. I offer you the following famous, well known and even published love story to illustrate my point further.
There was a man, who managed recording artists, and at age 38, he signed this young 12-year-old female artist who was the youngest of 14 children from a poor family. She was an exceptional girl in all ways. Her voice was to dream of. But also she was very very exceptionally grown up for her age, intelligent, philosophically astute, not spoiled, pampered or willful. In short, she was the perfect artist to manage. Eight years later, one night, at age 20 this girl totally shocked and surprized this then 46 year old man, by trying to seduce him. He actually ran away to his own room in the hotel. He adored her. She was beautiful. He ran. And he wouldn't even answer the phone when she called at first. She was persistant. So later that evening she succeeded. This poor confused 46 year old was trying to treat her as a child. What a joke. At 20, this woman knew exactly what she wanted. His name is Rene Angelil. Her name is Celine Dion.
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Touching, I love this man for writing this post. I think some of us need that :)