My Mess Up!

Most of you know me here, and knew somewhat about my relationship with Deb. If you haven't heard, we split up back in November. My choice, one of those supid choices that we men sometimes make! I just felt I need to get some things straight with myself. I needed to clear my head for a while. There was never a question as to if I loved her. I do Love her. As soon as I left and moved into my own place I begin to realize that this really wasn't what I wanted. We talked about it, and agreed we'd give it some time. I took a trip home for Christmas this year to spend with my family. Before I left, everything - well at least I though, was going well for Deb and I. We were still seeing each other, going places, calling each other, making love, etc..... Well, fast forward a little.. Since January, she's been spacing herself more and more from me. This has been very hard for me. I've had the mind set that we would be back together. I wanted to! I found it weird that before I left everything seemed cool, and when I got back, it was just like she didn't really want anything to do with me anymore. Well come to find out, that she had been dating another guy from work. Which, I have to be honest, didn't set well with me. I felt like he was in the way of me trying to connect once again with Deb. Not trying to make her jealous or anything I started dating also, it didn't really do much for me. In fact it made me only want to be with her even more. I wasn't even going to post anything and bore you with my problems, until after I talked with her tonite. I called to offer and take her to supper. She had already made plans. Plans with this guy! That's when I found out that this is becoming more than just a friend thing. I can't tell you how bad my heart hurts right now. I wish I was one of those guys that could just move on! I'm having a real tough time with this. I know it was my choice to move out! Do I regret it? Yes, because I should have been man enough to work it out. And No, because it made me realize just how important she is to me, and that I really do LOVE her! Tell me ladies, and guys if you want. What can a guy do to win back his love's heart? Or, is it time to move on? It reminds me of an R. Kelly song called "If I could turn back the hands of time" Please help me! I'm completly confused right now!

Jay, I would talk to her honestly, tell her I'd made a mistake, I found out I really loved her, ask her whether I still had any chances with her, and if not, move on. This way if her relationship with the new guy is serious, you won't disturb it, and if she still loves you, she might come back.
Good luck, Jay.

Cripes, what was it with you guys this Fall? Was there some sort of virus going around? It must have been some kind of mass epidemic, judging by how many of you guys just in the two age gap groups did the same thing around the same time.
Ok, judging by how I felt when David did his, I need to move out and be on my own stuff, she probably doesn't feel like she can trust you and probably the whole age thing is fairly distasteful to her right now. Not that she doesn't still care a great deal about you, but you did rather dump on the promises you made when you convinced her someone your age could have a serious relationship right?
Sometimes the hardest part of growing up is realizing the choices you make can cause harm, and all the wanting it to be better can't fix it.
I'd have a heart to heart with her, tell her how sorry you are. And mean it. Have you done that? It makes tons of difference, rather than just saying that you changed your mind now, lets go back. If David hadn't sincerely apologized for hurting me, we wouldn't have made it. You can't go back. You made a choice that totally changed your relationship. You can keep going, and you can grow into a new one, but there is no way to go back to the way it was. You're going to have to rebuild trust, and prove that you are capable of making a commitment.
If you aren't willing to do all that, then move on, and learn from it.
If she isn't willing to take the chance, and really isn't interested, then also move on, and be careful next time, hearts aren't something to play with lightly.
You're a really nice guy, and sometimes, nice guys just make boo-boos.

I think Bella is right...there is an epidemic spreading around.
Jay, my young man did the same thing, wanted a break and some space. He is 20 years old. We did the same as you two, still talked and made love and everything. Finally, after about three months, I started dating someone else. I think he went on one date with someone else. He did come to me and have a heart to heart....He told me he wanted me and needed me and never should have left, etc. etc. He said he would committ to me, which is why I decided to go ahead and give it another try.
When he had asked for the break, I didn't see it coming. Wasn't expecting it in the slightest (and I think Bella and Toasty also were in a very similar situation as I). So now always in the back of my mind is the thought...when will it happen again. I try very hard to keep my heart open and to let myself really love him, but I am also scared to let him mean everything to me like he did because, well he could decide he needs another break.
So....I really think you and Deb should have a dinner or lunch and you should tell her everything honestly just like you did here...that you love her, that you miss her, that you want to be with her and seeing her date the other man hurts you, etc.
I am so sorry for what you are going through...*hugs* I remember how terribly upset my y/m was.....lots of tears and heartache. I wish I could make you feel even a little bit better. Maybe the fact that my y/m and I did end up working it out and are together now will give you some hope. My thoughts are with you....

Thank You Ladies!!! Really!! It's so good to have someone to talk with who can understand where I'm coming from, and where I'm trying to go! I openly admit that I made a mistake. I'm trying to fix it. So, I will do that, I'll ask her if she can make time to have a heart to heart with me. Hopefully, something good can come out of this.:confused:

And as a part of that heart-to heart, get clear with yourself WHY you broke up with her in the first place, what you were thinking, what you were afraid of, why you felt you couldn't talk to her about it, what you've learned, and WHY it will be different this time around.

You have to make a case for her to believe that you won't just do this to her again two or three years down the line.

That's what she needs to find out from you if she's going to put her heart on the line again.

Well, I have to agree with the women who have posted thus far. And I think Desert Spring makes a good point. You need to get really clear with what you want from this woman. And certainly you need to examine why you broke up with her in the first place. Look at your non-verbal communication. You say that you moved into your own place. That seems to me to be a pretty bold act. (Where you guys living together?) To me it says that you want to have your own space, by yourself, and that for now, you are done with living together. So she may have taken that at face value, and figured that you were serious about moving on. And if you find that your love for her is what truly is motivating you to want to be back together with her, and is not just something like loneliness, or possesiveness over her sexually, than I say come to her with your open heart , and ask for her to come back to you. But also realize that while you can ask for what you want, you may not get it.
I also am wondering why she was'nt more up front with you about dating someone else? You mention it in your post as if you found out about this way after the fact.

Hi, Jay
I joined recently so I don't know the backgroung like some others do. I do know you're hurting because I am going through the same, and in my case, I am you, not her. He got fed up with dealing with my insecurities about the age and baggage and thought I was not offering anything in return (this was my first OW/YM relationship). I was the one who sort of chose to break up the last night we were together, a little over a month ago. Although I've tried to take it back even since that night, all my efforts and promises have not done a thing to make him even say "maybe, we'll see". In fact, I think I tried too hard and annoyed him more than if I had left it alone. Over a week ago he sent me an e-mail stating the reasons why he was trying to move on. I answered it, but told him I respected that and that I would not try anymore because the most important thing after all was for us to remain friends at some point, and to have his respect. I have not called him, or e-mailed and don't intend to. He has not either. He may already have someone else, I don't know and don't care to. Our relationship was very intense and lasted about 8 months. It will be hard for me to move on, but what else can I do. If it's over, as hard as it may seem now, life will fall in it's own place, for me and you and all of you who are going through the same thing. You'll live again, you'll love again, you'll f... again! (promise).
For you, my advise would be similar to the ones above, but be careful; because it could hurt you more to see her with someone else or her admitting to you that she's in love with him now, and that it's over between the two of you. Tell her about your feelings and intentions, but don't overpour your heart. Read her, and if your gut feeling tells you it's over, it probably is.
I don't know how old she is, but I guess she's several years older than you, because you're in this site. She might be ready for a more sure committment, stability and someone closer to her age. As you and I know, this issue has been always in our minds and has been a fear in OW/YM relationships, and that goes for both parties...who's going to leave who, and when.
I'd love to see a happy ending between the two of you. That can happen too! But all you can do is try, and it takes two to dance to the tune. You made a mistake (or so you think), but you would not have not known what you wanted if you had not moved away to collect your thoughts and feelings, come to terms with those insecurities. You would have done that, sooner or later. Better now than later, for both of you. And remember, sometimes we want something a hundred times more because we can not have it...be sure that's not why you want this.
If it happens, great. If it doesn't, learn from it and it will make you a better person for your next. I promise. Do follow your own personal dreams and ambitions in life, and always try to keep that as your main focus (I mean you as a person and your goals!).
Let us know...!
Mari

If it's meant to be, than it will happen.

& when I said meant to be, it's not a forced meant to be.

But two souls that are bound to be together.

I have been pretty quiet around here for a long time, but this time I felt compelled to say a few things. First of all, I want to thank everyone for being supportive of Jay and for not "bashing" me. I appreciate that very much. This break-up situation left me crying myself to sleep for a very long time. And those of you who mentioned it are right....my trust in Jay is nearly non-exsistant at this point. I am not here to say bad things abut Jay, I think we are just at different points in our lives right now. Because of that, even though he claims to still "love" me, as a result of his "dating"......he told me just tonight that he is going to be a father. No, he says he doesn't love her, but she was there when I wasn't. He told me when he moved out that he wanted children, and having 4 wonderful children of my own, how could I begrudge him that joy in life? I just thought perhaps he'd go about it a little differently. As if things weren't confusing and messed up before, now we have an unborn child to take into consideration. I want Jay to accept the responsibility of being a father and I'd like him to re-think his relationship with the mother. His child deserves that. Seems like the only right thing for me to do is to quietly step back and let him get on with his life while I attempt to get on with mine. Yes, I'll have that heart to heart.....I don't hate him....we're just on different pages of the book of life, I guess.

Deb

Oh gosh!
You know I like you Jay and I like you Deb,
I am always honest with my feelings but this pregnancy issue would make me run!!!
I honestly would not go back to an ex that broke up with me than got another woman pregnant, than wanted to come back to me.
You are right Deb, he needs to be a father now, he has a family coming.
I feel bad for you both in this situation, but Deb, oh man, I am so sorry for the hurt you must feel.
Jay, well you made your bed, now you gotta lay in it!
Sorry if I sound harsh.
I wish you both the best of life.
~Tammy

Oh jeez.... :( That certainly puts a different spin on the situation. I dunno Jay, you made some real poor decisions here. Unfortunately you have done things you cannot take back...and that is what happens when you act first and think later.
I sure wish you all the best, and I think you are a heck of a woman for offering to step back and let him think about his child first, Deb. I am sorry for all the pain you must be going through.
For someone who said the dating "did not really do that much for me" you sure have a lot of consequences to deal with for something that did not seem to matter much to you. *sigh*

There must have been some kind of epidemic going around in November I swear. I feel for the hurt your going through right now Jay but imagine the hurt that Deb felt when you left to find yourself. It's a hurtful situation for all involved. I wish I could totally understand how you youngermen feel. I do understand the need to be independent and find out who you are. What I don't understand is why you have to give up the person you love to do so. Another thing I wonder about is why the ym seem to get interested again when the ow starts dating others. I wish the ym would think about what their risking before they throw it away.

Deb, I admire you for being strong enough to move on, your decision is a very unselfish one because I'm sure it hurts you deeply to have to make this decision. I myself haven't been strong enough yet to let go of all the ties, but I am now preparing myself for if that day comes.

I feel for both of you and hope you both have the strength to get through this.

Brenda

Question that you brought up Brenda: Why younger men feel they have to leave the one they are with to "find themselves".

I am on the same ship as you, in that i have no friggin clue what the hell goes thru these guys' minds when they propose such a thing. I would like to think that if I was ever confronted by the issue, I would be straight foward and consice about what exactly it was that was bothering me. I feel as though if it is something worth breaking up for, it is something thats atleast worth talking over. Especially when you have such a history. I also have a theory that some guys use that as a way to temporaraly get out of the shackles (so to speak) so they can do stuff with a clear conscious. furthermore, I can't help but think that guys wait to spring this shit on their partner until they have what ever it is they want to find out about lined up infront of them. If it is the party experiance, then they wait till they know there'll be a party. If it is for a new piece of @$$, then they wait till its right there waiting for them. . .etc. I would really like to think i'm wrong, but shit.

I still think, while on the steps to my 20th birthday, that if I needed to find myself then I should be finding myself with the woman that I love. Because, if I leave her to find myself, chances are when I finally found myself I woul dhave morphed into someone who was no longer desirable. Or, I would find myself and my partner would have moved on. Which, I think is the case in this situation with our friend Jay. You went to find yourself, and when you got back she moved on. I can sympathize because I can imagine the kind of hurt I would be in if that happened to me, and I know I would be in a puddle of tears and guilt.

My only hope is that the guys who do go off to find themselves learn something from their experiance, and use that as a marker for future life experiances.

I always grew up with the philosophy that we should cherish what we have while we have it, becauase you never know when it will be gone. The love and emotional attachment achieved in a relationship can sometimes be irreplacable. In my opinion, the risk is too great. I hope you find some comfort in your future, Jay.

Please, I do not mean to preach, what you do is your own business. Snowprincess and I very rarely agree, but I do have to say that her comment about the "You made your bed, now you have to sleep in it" is very accurate. I wish you luck in your future, and hope you find the happiness you once had.

Steve

Thank You again for all of your advice, good or bad I really need to hear these kind of things. Thanks fellas and ladies for your support. But, I have one question for you women. Why is it so bad that I'm becoming a father now? To me that's kind of like discriminating because I will soon have a child. Deb and I were not together at this time, I was looking for love in all the wrong places. Yea, I made a poor decision, I think it's something we all do from time to time. This was something that was not planned. It just happened. I will be a MAN and take care of my responsibility, and if Deb gives me that chance I'll be a Man in our relationship! All I'm saying is that most YM don't discriminate when we come into relationships with you OW that have children. I didn't!

Well Jay, welcome to adulthood hon, this is exactly what I meant by your choices being your responsibility. You left out a pretty big chunk of the story there.
You made a baby. You have a real responsibility there. If you choose to dodge that one, you're affecting a completely innocent life you made. You don't have to be with the mother, but you do have to father your child, or you're no kind of man.
This is one of those tough times ya just gotta get through, making the best choices you can.
THINK!!!!
And you other guys, damn it, if you aren't ready to parent, then either use something or keep it in your pants. Nothing is 100%, and believe it or not, girls lie too. Its always a possibility.
Deb, big hugs to you. This stinks.

Yea, I know Bella!

This is some welcoming party...

I don't think you are being criticized for becoming a father. Nor is there a double standard at work that it's ok for the OW to bring kids into a relationship, but the YM can't. That's not the point. The point is that the kids they bring to the relationship ARE ALREADY THERE when they get together with their YM. From PREVIOUS relationships. It sounds like your relationship with Deb wasn't clearly over in November, or at least not apparently so. And while you were in that limboland of still being at least emotionally connected to her, if not literally, you conceived a child with someone else. That seems way different to me.

Jay,

Most of us OW with children continue in some kind of relationship with their fathers, even if it is to chase them down for child support. :( But if we're lucky, we can set aside our personal differences for the good of the children.

And you, Jay, what about your child's mother? What kind of a relationship do you, will you have with her? She will be your parenting partner all your life, regardless of your romantic partners, for you will always have that child in common. There are TWO more people involved in your relationship with Deb now.

I know I'm not being criticized for being a father. Just the way I've chosen to go about things. And Maybe I didn't make it clear that I wasn't in a relationship with Deb at the time my child was being conceived! This was a recent thing. Like a month ago recent! She was there when Deb wasn't! And as far as my relationship is with her. She knows that I'm not in love with her, because I'm in love with someone else. I've made that clear to her. We've agreed that we'd stay strong and be good parents for this child! That's it! This is so hard, because I love Deb soo much! I'll do anything for this woman! And Deb if you're reading this, I really want you to know that!

I understand what you are saying, Jay. I know that it seems to you that the baby should not be such a big issue as you and Deb were broke up. But okay, look at it like this...what if it was the other way around, and Deb was coming back to you with another man's child...pregnant that is. You know that it would hurt you terribly to think about Deb carrying and then later raising a child with another man who was conceived during your short separation.
During our separation, my y/m and I, I also has sex with someone else. This was the hardest issue for us to deal with...He often asks me how I slept with someone else if I loved him the way I said I did. He asked how I could know I wanted to be with him when I was just with someone else a month previous. He asked a lot of questions, and it took a long time to figure out and still is something we discuss occasionally now, four months later.
I'm not saying it cannot work out for the two of you, but you have to undestand you have put a LOT on Deb's plate right now....A LOT. And you can't expect miracles. This may be something that she is not willing to deal with, and if so you have no choice but to accept that. It is her decision what she wants in a realationship and a life partner. This is the part where you deal with the consequences of your actions......and it's hard. :( My heart hurts for you both....What a situation. *hugs* to you

<b>I don't know the whole situation.
But I can tell you this!

To take on any woman....not just o/w with kids,
<font color=red>IS NOT THE SAME</font>, as the situation your sitting at right now!</b>

Jay, neither I know all of your history but as it seems you have some intense and strong feelings for Deb ? And wow (!) it lools like you’d surely messed things up haven’t you? Life is a mystery and we don’t always know which way to take or what is the right thing to do. You know what? Where there is love without a desire from both side it’s gonna be just sentimental and where there is desire but without love it’s gonna be manipulation. Love needs two people, in the same place and with the same feelings and a determination to hold on. Sometimes we realize too late that we’ve made a mistake and you find yourself in a position where it might be impossible to reverse time no matter how much you want it to be the other way around. It’s great that you gonna be a father but I think that you have to give Deb some space and time to melt this latest happenings and let her decide future moves. Put yourself in her position and give her respect for what ever she feels is right for her to do.

I wish both of you strength to take a clever, wise and emotionally right decision.

Wow, things certainly have taken a different shine with the new information. I agree with all previous posts. BUT, I ALSO WANT TO EMPHASIZE That Jay, even though things are really tough for you on the inside, and you may be daunted by all that is coming at you right now, there is a light somewhere in the middle of all of this. It's kind of like many diamonds in the middle of a large haystack, but it's/they're all there. You just have to work really hard to look for them. There is always a chance for something beautiful with your ex-girlfriend, the casual date who is carrying your baby, and your unborn child. I think your ex really does care about you. Otherwise I don't think that she would have posted---that, to me, takes some guts.

It may not seem like it now, but Your ex could be a friend to you for life, so could this woman, and you have no choice, NONE in the case of your unborn child to be nothing but a great father, a friend, and somebody who loves him/her unconditionally. If you and this woman who is carrying your child do fully intend to commit yourselves to this new innocent life, you both need to write down how you will handle giving your lives to this child if you are not going to be in a relationship. In my opinion.

And get witnesses to sign it. Like your mother and her mother, or uncle, etc. People who can and will hold you both accountable when you both falter a little bit. And, people who can and will support you emotionally and mentally when you will need it. It takes a village to raise a child. But you probably already know that. I don't mean to preach, I just want to give you another angle on things, if I can.

Also, consider if you are overlooking this woman who is carrying your child as a potential mate---surely something about her was attractive to you, maybe, eventually you could learn to love her. This one is a huge stretch, I know, and two relationships that started this way, that I know of, one ended recently in divorce and further misery, and the other is just plain miserable. I do not advocate a shotgun marriage at all. But what I am saying that if there is a possibility, maybe you could consider part II of dating this woman. But at the least, DO YOUR PART TO TAKE CARE OF THIS NEW CHILD!! It's a decision that you will never regret.

I really, really wish you well. And give your ex some time to digest all of this. It is really alot. Be careful, and don't burn any bridges.

You did make your own bed, true. But as bittersweet as life is, I think you can make the best of all of this. I think that the power is truly in the way that you handle it. May you handle all of this gracefully. D.

Here's an update on Deb and I.
We did sit down and have our "heart to heart" the other night. I expressed to her that I'm sorry that I made a mistake, and that I would go to the end of the world for her. She expressed her feelings about things. It was bittersweet. We sat there and talked about all this stuff that should have been talked about in the beginning. We cried together. Laughed a little. Most of all we got a chance to get some things across to one another. I told her that she is Incredible! I thanked her for all of this! And told her that if nothing else comes from this, one good thing is that she's helped me become a man, and still is helping me. One of the hardest things of the night was to listen to her tell me that she has feelings for another guy, but she doesn't think that he feels the same way for her. A part of me wanted to say "wake up." And Yea, I know that is jealousy. She has a guy that cares for her and is not afraid of telling her how much he loves her, and in the same sentence a guy who she's "chasing" that is not ready to open himself up to her. I had to put all the jealousy aside during this, and realize that this is what she wants and that I need to respect that. That's exactly what I told her. And Good Luck! Damn, that was so hard!! I think I grew a couple of hairs on my chest when I said that! ;) Leaving was the hardest thing I must admit. Turning and walking towards that door, and thinking that this may be it. Was so tough! Right before all of this I said a little prayer to God! I asked him to show me a sign. As I'm about to walk away, I turn and look at her. And so fast there it was! It was the twinkle in her eyes. I told her that I was not saying "Goodbye" becase I knew I would be back. Instead, I told her that her eyes gave her away. When I went to move, my legs felt like they didn't want to go. When I lifted my hand if felt heavy. It was almost like the door was wired, and if I touched it I would die. I cried all the way home. I agreed to Deb before I left that I would try to work on a relationship with my "friend" just for the baby's sake. Even though I'm attracted to Older women. I called her up and asked if she felt like talking. Here's kind of a twist....
As we were talking, my phone rang. It was Deb! She said Hi, and are you OK? Just from hearing that, I could tell that something was wrong with her. She asked if I had company, I told her that I did. and she said that she was just wanting to see if I were OK. Now, I've known Deb for 3+ Years. I can tell when something is bothering her. The next moring, I'm standing in my bathroom in front of the heat vent trying to get warm before I shower, and staring at my phone. I'm thinking I want to call her so bad, but then I respect the fact that she asked me not to. As I'm thinking that, it rang! It was her again. I asked her if she was alright, as soon as I said that she began to cry. So did I. She said that she had heard a song on the radio that made her think about us. I can't tell you all how good that made me feel! I understand that she is confused right now. She has a lot on her plate, I agree! That's my fault! I hurt her so bad, and she's afraid to open her heart and trust me again! I know that she loves me! I understand her more and more each day! I'm willing to step back and let her explore other avenue's of her life. If this thing with the new guy is what she needs to help her, then as hard as it is for me, I support her, and I think she should try it! Hopefully, it won't work out..... :p Kidding! Anyway, Deb is a wonderful person! I realize that! I respect her, thank her and I love her. I think a lot of praying and support from everyone will help us both through this. And maybe we will end up back together. (I'm hoping) ;)
Thank You All for Listening to me!
Jay

and yea, I'll keep you updated! (cross your fingers)

I as well hope all goes as it should for all concerned, but I would very much like to encourage you to definitely get a DNA test to verify this child really is YOURS Jay ... One can't be too careful. And, in spite of the fact that you made a mistake or two (like all the rest of us do continually), you are a good catch, have a good job and anyone who really knows you realizes you would not shirk your responsibility ...

Please get a test. Love ya.


Princessdy

Thank You Dy and Suzie! And Everyone else!
Only Time will tell!