I've been told to mind my own @@ business!

I struggled with where to post this. It's not actually a light topic as in chit-chat. It also does not pertain to my own relationship, making relationship support the wrong place to post. However, I am asking for: support, commiseration, and advice, in that order. LOL. (Although I can almost guess what that advice will be already, I seek the perspective of someone not involved in this personally.)

Please excuse the long post; it’s a lot of information and it’s still a summary. If I left out something you would like to know, ask away.

Here goes:

My older sister has been involved in a relationship for about 12 years. I can tell you all, I never liked the guy from the first moment I met him. I also never hid this from my sister. I did let her know that I understood my opinion was not the important one; she was in the relationship, not me. I know enough to know that people see different aspects of each other; she saw more good in him than I ever did. I'm also smart enough to know that at times, love blinds us to the faults of our significant others.

She and I argued about my opinion of him once or twice, at the start of their relationship. Then I took a hands off approach; it was her relationship and I would just hope that for her sake, all worked out.

As I'm sure you can guess by now, the relationship was anything but smooth. She spent a great deal of the last five years bending my ear about trouble in her relationship. At first she was uneasy talking to me about her problems, thinking I would just say, "Leave him." She would say things like, "I know you don't like him...." and I would answer, "Who cares what I think, I'm here for you, to help you find the best solutions. Or just to listen, whatever you need."

I tried my best to keep my word, and just look at how to help her, what was best for her. She is my sister; all I wanted was for her to be happy. I would listen, console, advise, or just shut up as I could, to best help her.

This past fall, my sister made the decision to end it. It took time to actually do, as their lives are well entangled--house, family, cars, etc. She came to me and discussed everything, all the time. I constantly gave her all I could--reassurance, input, and a place to vent.

Well, at the end of October, the ~stuff~ hit the fan. It was explosive and traumatic to my sister, I’m certain; there are elements I won't discuss here, but let's throw some words out there: threats, violence, and custody.

At this point, my sister pretty well shut me out. She didn't call; didn't return my calls; and didn't say much when she did call. She yelled at me two weeks ago for making a pretty innocuous comment. It was along the nature of, "So, you haven't done _______ yet?" She got very angry, said I was judging her, said she was tired of unasked for advice, and needed everyone to leave her alone.

Well, a good two weeks went by and I didn't hear from her; I finally called her and said "I'm sorry that what I said upset or offended you; please call and tell me you are doing all right; I'm worried and I love you. You are NOT alone in this."

That was several days ago. Today, she finally returned my call. In the course of that conversation she said she wasn't mad at me, but she felt like everyone had a big old "I told you so" ready for her. I reminded her that I never said that, and never would. I know all the reasons she stayed, all the ways she tried to make it work. I supported her through these times.

She said she was tired of talking about it, and didn't want to anymore.

I got angry at this point, and told her if she damn well wanted to be alone, she would be; but then she would look up at some point and wonder where everyone was.

She said she was angry that I was angry about this. I told her it was coming from a place of concern and love; I don't want her to be alone in this.

She said, "I'm not, I've got my friends...."

I lost it at that point. I was so mad, and hurt; I reminded her I'm her family! I told her I had lived through every second of her relationship with her; I had been there through all the good, bad, and ugly; and now when she was really in the worst possible situation, she was pushing me away. All I want is to help you, I said. Whatever that means; I don't want to give you advice if you don't want it; I just want to be here for you.

She was still angry, told me she could not deal with me, and ended the call.

~big sigh~

I'm still pretty worked up. I'm sad and scared for her; I hate that she is pushing everyone away, most especially me.

I know, I know; if she doesn't want my help, or me involved, there is nothing I can do.

But she's my sister!

Are there any words of wisdom out there?

Lara sweetheart, big hug...

Your feeling is valid, you want to be involved because you love her. Involved in what is the question.

In your mind at the time being involved must have meant talking about the problem. But take a moment and listen to your sister's plea, she had enough of that. Her feeling was valid too, she had enough thinking about her problems, and wanted to escape them for a while. That's what she needed from you at that point. Not to discuss the problems, but to help her escape them. She had phoned you, not to exclude you, she was touching bases with you because she loves you too.

Rather than being involved in her mess, your role needed to be one of supplying what she needs, which at the time was escape. By supplying her need you would have been involved "with your sister", just not her mess.

Another big hug....

George

In your mind at the time being involved must have meant talking about the problem. But take a moment and listen to your sister's plea, she had enough of that. Her feeling was valid too, she had enough thinking about her problems, and wanted to escape them for a while.

Ouch...that was painful enough that it must be true. (Not because of the way you said it, George; thank you for your kind phrasing.)

True, I may have forgotten that I need to meet her needs in this--today. There was a lack of giving on my part today. But that just explains my error, and only today. What explains why she has shut me out from the start?

And the implication in her words was that she discusses it with her girlfriends....but won't with me.

WTF?

Hi Larasteele,

Being that I'm pretty close to my sister and I always want what is best for her, I can understand your dilemma.

My advice to to just continue to be there emotionally for your sister. Even though it seems like she's pushing you away I think she has so many emotions and thoughts she has to deal with right now. I think in time she will realize what a good sister you have been to her and you've always had your best interests at heart.

Maybe she's leaning more on her friends for support right now because they don't know the things that you know about your sister's relationship and she feels somewhat ashamed to face you. I know you told her you weren't going to say "I told you so", but she fears you might say it in other ways. Like I said before, I think in time she will realize you truly care about her and want her to be happy.

:bighug:

It was easy to see what went wrong in your conversation with your sister. But its impossible to answer your last question, to analyze her choice when its based upon a 28 year (I think you're 28) relationship between 2 sisters.

Of course, we will discuss our problems with those who we feel most comfortable discussing them with. That normally means a relationship where there is no judgementalism, no control issues, purely supportive. But there can be other factors, like ego. Maybe your older sister has a problem going to her younger sister for advice. In her mind that may threaten her "position" in her relationship with you. But that's just one example.

Perhaps some of the ladies who are older sisters can comment.

I'm very close with my sister, and yet I normally go to a friend named Julianne first when I need support. No explanation, Julianne is just the first one to pop into my mind when the need for support comes up. My older brother has no problem asking me for advice on cars, but NEVER asks for my advice in more personal matters. My older brother suffers from some very big self love/self esteem issues.

Another big hug, luv ya,

George

Maybe she's leaning more on her friends for support right now because they don't know the things that you know about your sister's relationship and she feels somewhat ashamed to face you. I know you told her you weren't going to say "I told you so", but she fears you might say it in other ways. Like I said before, I think in time she will realize you truly care about her and want her to be happy.


That's a possibility...I considered it. We've always shared even the tough stuff, though...I have no idea why this would be more embarrassing or shameful to her than any other thing we have shared.

Thanks for your caring words; you know the joys and pains of sisterhood. :)

That normally means a relationship where there is no judgementalism, no control issues, purely supportive. But there can be other factors, like ego. Maybe your older sister has a problem going to her younger sister for advice. In her mind that may threaten her "position" in her relationship with you. But that's just one example.

ahhh, bless you George--I'm almost 30 now. EEK! :eek: (I'm freaking out about that upcoming milestone....)

More wise words from you; I appreciate your input.

Yes, I am the younger sister; and our relationship has always been complicated, at best. She relied on me a lot these past few years, especially as regards this topic....I don't think I'm jealous that she has chosen to talk to her girlfriends, but it does leave me sad and hurt.

And so very worried about her....

You sound so entitled. Like you have the RIGHT to speak to her, becuase you were with her when she needed you. She's leaving a relationship that no one supported, that she obviously tried so hard to make work, and you're yelling at her. She probably feels bad about her self, stuck, angry, sad....and you're angry with her?......:confused:

I have done this to my sister as well. Some for the reasons that were already listed.......others....... well maybe your sister feels like she has failed at something......maybe she feels that the family will believe that she is a failure.......maybe she feels that she has let you down. Older sisters are supposed to be the "rock" or "go to" person for their baby sisters.... it can be hard for older sisters to admit that they need help......

I have 5 brothers and sisters..... out of the 6 of us....only one remains married to the first spouse. They have been married for 25 yrs....... my middle sister was married for 19 yrs when she got divorced...... she felt like she had failed at the marriage......I was married for 14....same feeling....... we both felt that we let our kids down, our brothers and sisters, ourselves......

Call your sister......ask her to go shopping...out to eat....to a movie....to a spa........ and do a girls day.........with no mention of the relationship..... that way it can truly be an escape for her...and the two of you can spend time together, she knows that you care about her, and want to be there for her......... she will talk when she wants to.

...I have no idea why this would be more embarrassing or shameful to her than any other thing we have shared.


As an "older" sister..who has gone thru some of the same stuff your sister has..maybe I can tell you where I'm coming from. I did my share of explaining why my, in this case, marriage failed..to my family and friends. This happened about 6 months ago. Now, I just want to get my life together and move on. I've spent enough time on recrimination and regret. I've come to the realization that it's my life (and my children's). I have to move on for my peace of mind..and theirs. Maybe..just maybe..your sister is feeling the same way.

That's not saying she is not going to need someone to vent to when her ex does something that really p***es her off..trust me, I've been there. Just be patient with her, and realize that she does love you.

You sound so entitled. Like you have the RIGHT to speak to her, becuase you were with her when she needed you. She's leaving a relationship that no one supported, that she obviously tried so hard to make work, and you're yelling at her. She probably feels bad about her self, stuck, angry, sad....and you're angry with her?......:confused:

You have one post here...and it is this one? Really? Oh, my.

All right, I’ll engage--briefly.

I never said I was a saint; I'm an imperfect person with feelings.

Feelings are sometimes complicated, ugly, scary, and inexplicable.

'Nuff said on that reply.

I have done this to my sister as well. Some for the reasons that were already listed.......others....... well maybe your sister feels like she has failed at something......maybe she feels that the family will believe that she is a failure.......maybe she feels that she has let you down. Older sisters are supposed to be the "rock" or "go to" person for their baby sisters.... it can be hard for older sisters to admit that they need help......

I hear you. She may feel this way and I certainly need to recognize and honor that. It is hard to, though, because I love her and want to be the person who is there for her--as she has done for me in times past.

I have 5 brothers and sisters..... out of the 6 of us....only one remains married to the first spouse. They have been married for 25 yrs....... my middle sister was married for 19 yrs when she got divorced...... she felt like she had failed at the marriage......I was married for 14....same feeling....... we both felt that we let our kids down, our brothers and sisters, ourselves......

Thank you for sharing that! Other's experiences and perspectives help me a lot right now--when you are IN a thing, it is difficult to be objective.

Call your sister......ask her to go shopping...out to eat....to a movie....to a spa........ and do a girls day.........with no mention of the relationship..... that way it can truly be an escape for her...and the two of you can spend time together, she knows that you care about her, and want to be there for her......... she will talk when she wants to.

I love your solution oriented focus here. Only problem is, she is two states away, so I can't just call her up for lunch. I can just call her up and chat, however, and will do that at least.

Thank you for your time and input!

Ah, family...

I have my own *mishigas* with my own. *sigh*

It's SO hard to take the "high road", I know. But, if I were in your position, I would think about doing what has already been mentioned. Put out the olive branch and take her out to lunch. If this relationship is something that's important to you, then do what you can to make it right.

If, after you do what you do, there's still this attitude, then evaluate it. Sometimes, as heartbreaking as it is, it's not worth the turmoil to you.

From someone who's dealing with serious crud with her only sibling, I do sincerely wish you the best of luck, and the strength to deal with this drama.

As an "older" sister..who has gone thru some of the same stuff your sister has..maybe I can tell you where I'm coming from. I did my share of explaining why my, in this case, marriage failed..to my family and friends. This happened about 6 months ago. Now, I just want to get my life together and move on. I've spent enough time on recrimination and regret. I've come to the realization that it's my life (and my children's). I have to move on for my peace of mind..and theirs. Maybe..just maybe..your sister is feeling the same way.

Thank you very much for sharing. It's hard for me to know exactly where she is because I have not gone through anything like this.

That's not saying she is not going to need someone to vent to when her ex does something that really p***es her off..trust me, I've been there. Just be patient with her, and realize that she does love you.

That's good advice as well. :) I know she loves me; I just hope she know I love her too. And will remain here, waiting, if she needs me.

Thanks for your post, mag.

Ah, family...
.... If, after you do what you do, there's still this attitude, then evaluate it. Sometimes, as heartbreaking as it is, it's not worth the turmoil to you.

It's not so much turmoil for me as it is worry and concern for her. I'm sad and angry that she feels she cannot rely on me; but I just want her to be okay, whatever solution works best for her.

It's a very important relationship; she and I are all that is left of our bio family. We still have the family that took us in, but of the same genetic line--it's just us. We made it through a whole lot of hell together. I never would have survived that stuff if it hadn't been for her. And--this might be the heart of it--she has done so much for me, now I could finally do something for her. I guess it will just not take the form I thought it would.

From someone who's dealing with serious crud with her only sibling, I do sincerely wish you the best of luck, and the strength to deal with this drama.

Oh, my! Mishigas, you just made me a little teary eyed. Thank you for your very kind words and support--I appreciate that as much as the advice and input that is given. It helps.

I give those words right back to you--I hope you are able to work through the crud with your own sister; luck and strength to you, too.

Ahhh, sisters...what would life be without them?

(Dull, very dull.)

I'm sad and angry that she feels she cannot rely on me; but I just want her to be okay, whatever solution works best for her.

This sentance kind of stuck out to me. It probably isn't a case of her feeling she can't rely on you - please try not to think of it that way. I don't have a sister - but I have been in a situation similar to hers.

I was married for 13 years to a controlling, hateful, immature man. We had 2 kids together. I was a stay at home mom and dependant upon him financially. He was a master at manipulation and he knew exactly how to push my buttons - keeping me fearful and submissive. We had moved away (200 miles) from all my family and friends. He didn't like me to have much outside contact with anyone - no work, no friends, no family, no community - nothing. He played major head games with me - using every thing he could - especially our children. When a loving family member (usually my mother) - would see what was going on and try to help - he would be right there like my shadow using whatever he could to stop it - threats, violence, manipulation. He knew I felt a strong sense of duty - even after he had managed to destroy the love I felt for him with his ugliness. Sometimes it was just easier to shut out my mom - not because I didn't value her advice. Not because I didn't love her. Not because I didn't think she loved me or because I thought others were smarter, better, etc. But because it kept things a little quieter. While they were quiet - I was finding my own way out - greatful that I had family that loved me to help when I needed it - and greatful that they respected my need to try and establish a sense of independance (doing it my way). Didn't mean their suggestions/comments were unworthy or unwelcomed - just not mine - know what I mean? That may not make any sense to you - but that's what my line of thinking was at that time. This was the only world I had known for a really long time - and the thought of altering it (though I KNEW I NEEDED to - for my sake and my children's) - made me frightened and sad. I didn't really have "girlfriends" - he didn't like that - but I wrote poetry and posted it on the net. Stuff I shared with them was sometimes things I couldn't share with my mom. Stuff I shared with my mom was sometimes stuff I coudln't share with anyone else. I found support and strength in bits and pieces. Not favoring anyone over anyone else - just embracing the world around me - and knowing that I was loved through this really difficult situation. Mostly I found what I needed in prayer and patience. I also took out a gym membership and worked out my frustrations. He made it difficult for me to do that too - he didn't like it - but I did it anyway.

It took a really long time for me to get out of my situation. Scary and frustrating for everyone involved (especially my mom) - but I did eventually change it. While she was waiting - my mom and I would exchange jokes, inspirational stories, and song lyrics. Sometimes we'd talk - sometimes not. But because she gave me that space - we communicated even when we weren't talking. Does that make sense? Hoped it helped somehow and didn't make things worse for you.

Wishing you good thoughts and peace.

Oh, my! Mishigas, you just made me a little teary eyed. Thank you for your very kind words and support--I appreciate that as much as the advice and input that is given. It helps.

I give those words right back to you--I hope you are able to work through the crud with your own sister; luck and strength to you, too.

Ahhh, sisters...what would life be without them?

(Dull, very dull.)

It's a brother (who is married to one heck of a woman *eyeroll*) but I do appreciate your words and sentiment as well.

And, for me, since my family is tiny, it takes on even more significance...

But, as much as it has pained me, I've come to one conclusion about it all. I can only put in as much effort as is given to me. In the past 2 years, he has asked me about my Canuck precisely ZERO times. Even over this past Thanksgiving, after my move from LA to Washington, even after EVERYTHING, he has chosen not to ask about it. And, frankly, I consider myself the fool if I continue to feed into his need for validation without any recognition, whatsoever, about what is happening in my life.

So, this is where I'm coming from with this, hon. Do what you can, but most of all, take care of yourself. You're worth more than this crap.

brothers should come with a warning lable:

can occasionally be clueless and self absorbed

at least mine is :bgrin2: and I'm ok with it - we've just come to basically the same arrangement as you have Michigas - we stay the heck away from each other - exchange pleasantries and sometimes gifts during the holidays - and dream about being only children :bgrin2: (ha-ha - just kidding)

I went through this as well.
My ex was an abusive SOB and it took me 10 years to escape. I had the feeling of the *I told you so* from everyone as well. I feel like I failed not only them but myself and my kids.

You do have the right to feel the way you do, but as George says so does she. It is a rough hard time for her and what she needs is support to Hear..if you need me for anything I am here...To listen, not to lecture or be mad at. She is already mad at herself as it is. She is beating her brain in thoughts and just wants some HER space..

I know it is HARD oh boy do I. I been on both sides of that track. My sister is going through it as we speak. I just let her talk...part of me wants to shake her and say GET WITH THE PROGRAM but I won't do that to her...she already knows deep down the issues at hand


HUGS!!!!!!!!! It will be okay

Hey LaraSteele!

My sister and I used to go to similar places too, then we'd have resentment, hurt feelings, weeks of silence, a six month silence...she vented about her alcoholic BF and talked about all of the injustices. After a while, i'd want to tear my hair out! :(

I learned about boundaries out of total frustration and pain. I kept thinking we'd grow enough to properly be able to discuss, but the truth is...the harm we were doing our relationship was worsening. It hurt me to see her think so little of herself that she'd justify away so much stuff, and yet...the truth is, her r'ship is her business.

Here is what MY business is. My reponses and my boundaries. I started to jump in the conversation and say I needed to change the subject because it was getting too difficult for me. I didn't engage in explaining or trying to get her underatand anything. If she'd get pissed that I wasn't supporting or listening, I'd say something truthful in an "I" statement, but I would change that subject or get off the phone. A few times, setting the boundaries was pretty rough. We weren't graceful, but it was worth the effort. With practice, we're much better.

Now I can say, "Lisa, I'm starting to feel really frustrated. You know I love you and I trust that you'll figure out what the next right thing to do is."

I also was making her nuts with my r'ships. I'd vent, she'd try to fix and I didn't want ficxing, I just wanted support, but I triggered her! She set boundaries with me too. Now when I need to talk about John stuff, I check in ahead of time and say, "I need to talk about John, are you good with that today? I was wondering if you could listen for a few minutes."

It sounds corny, but it keeps a respect for eachother. The truth is, I have learned to take my r'ship stuff outside my own family. It's like shopping in Starbucks for a perfect pair of shoes. I'm just in the wrong store!!:p

Take care and the thirties rock!!!!

You've received some really good advice here.

You stated that she knew you didn't like her boyfriend, so even if you will never say to her face that you told her so, she knows you are thinking it. You are not thinking it in a malicious way, but in a caring way such as "if she had only listen then she could have prevented all this mess"

As someone said early, she's tired of going over all the stuff that has happened and is happening and she just wants to zone out for a while and deal with it on her own. You need to show her that you trust her judgment to do what is right at the right time. When you constantly ask what she's doing about certain issues, she feels that because she has made a mistake in being with this guy, you are using that bad decision to judge her ability to make good decisions.

She feels messed up. She knows the mistakes she has made and she knows that everyone knows and she feels like a failure. As someone said before, take her shopping, or to watch a movie. If she wants to talk about stuff, listen. Do not give advice unless she specifically asks for advice. Just be there for her like her friends would. I know when I went through a rough patch with my guy earlier this year, my friends tried to distract me. They gave me advice when I asked for it, but the other times they just listened.

You cannot control everything Lara and you have to trust that she will take the necessary steps to sort out her life, but at her own pace, not yours. Step back and allow her to get back on track. In the meantime, be there for her. She needs you, she just don't need your advice. This is the time when she truly needs to know that she can count on her sister to catch her when she falls. Not to berate her for not being careful, but to dress her wounds and help her heal.:)

All the best, Ally.

I'm pretty tired right now--long work day--but I read all the great, wise replies on this thread. I don't have the energy to reply to each and every post but:

Thank you all!

I found a great deal of help in each thing that was said. You all are wonderful! Not only did each post help, but the total support given touched me very much.

Thank you, from the bottom of my heart; a million times, thank you.

:)

Big Hugs - Hang In There! :)

If she says she does not want to talk about the problems anymore that is her choice and your part is to support her choice. Show your respect for her by respecting her wishes and your love for her by just sending her cards and emails telling her you love her and that she is in your prayer. Stop talking about her problems, she will be back to you when she is ready to talk. Sometimes people withdraw because they are ashamed of their not very smart choice and their weakness in life. Give her time and space.

The line I picked up in your post was about how traumatic the split had been recently ... threats, violence, custody...

I went through the same thing this past year, and it puts a HUGE strain of stress on a person. I handle stress very well and what my ex was doing was almost too much to bear. Not to mention just the work involved with going through the divorce process.

Plenty of days where I felt like if one more person even said "boo" to me or of one more "thing to do" got added to my plate I would either explode or break down. I'm betting your sister is in that place too.

What I would have given for something relaxing like a massage or spa treatment at a time when I desperately needed it but wouldn't splurge on myself because of not getting child support!

I hear you. She may feel this way and I certainly need to recognize and honor that. It is hard to, though, because I love her and want to be the person who is there for her--as she has done for me in times past.


The thing you may want to think about, is that, for whatever reason, seldom why you think...many of the times the people we go to for solutions to our problems, do not go to us.

Perhaps, for whatever reason, she believes your purpose in her life is not to advise. Perhaps she gets enough elsewhere. That's her choice. She wants to talk to you, but perhaps thinks you're too close to the situation. She's known from the start how you feel. Objectivity from friends (like you're getting here) is often the best thing to listen to when you're hurting.