What's Going On With Ageless?

And why is everyone leaving?

I especially miss Miu...she was my big sis here. So sad....

Sbux, Miu didn't leave, she was banned for repeated rules violations despite multiple warnings. It's really a personal matter between Miu and the moderation team, so we can't go into the details.

Of a few others who have indicated that they may/are leaving, the primary issues seem to stem from personality conflicts.

I wish that this kind of thing didn't happen. It would be so wonderful if people could put aside their conflicts and find a way to get along or tolerate each other. But, sometimes, some people just feel that they are unable to do that. Or some of them feel that if they still kept an account here, that they would be too tempted to come here and post, and they feel they need a break.

I've been here for 4 1/2 years. And, I've seen people come, people go, and some people come and go. Ageless is a community. Like in all communities, some people get along with each other, some don't. Some are able to tolerate differences, some cannot. I doubt that this will be the last time, although it is my sincerest wish that we will one day get to the point where people can find a way to tolerate each other's differences and not let the differences cause stress in their personal lives.

It does leave a huge hole here when someone leaves, and makes everyone feel very down. I think we go through the grief process here when someone who is very familiar to us leaves, for whatever reason.

My hope is that we can use this time to heal. I hope that eventually we will look forward rather than backward, and open our arms to new members who are coming here looking for support and move onward and upward.

Thanks, WR, for those wise word. I appreciate you taking the time to fill us in as much as you can.

I would like to offer another perspective.

I am leaving too. It doesn't have anything to do with moderation or anything personal between myself and anyone else.

I have just outgrown Ageless. I am not in an AG relationship any longer, nor do I want to be.

I believe in spending my time in a quality manner. I find myself coming here out of habit, when I'd like to be more productive in other areas of my life.

But the bottom line for me is that this place used to be of a much higher quality than it is now IMHO. The intelligent and insightful discussions that used to occur here are far rarer than they used to be. I have a theory about why that is, but it's really irrelevant...

I've made some great friends here, and those friendships will hopefully live on. But it's my time to exit, stage left. Thanks Ageless, you've been a good friend!!!

Love and good luck to all,
Kat

OMG, this is turning into an I'm leaving too thread!

I do miss Harrison!

I don't post as much as I used to myself for some of the same reasons as Kat7. I'm no longer in an age gap relationship, and I have decided that many of them are simply not for me any longer.
I can't think for the life of me now why or how I dated someone over 20 TWENTY years younger than me.

I guess I was going through the same thing men go through when they hit their forties. I am over it though. The thought of dating a man that young is distinctly unappealing.

Ali

I am sad.
What else can I say?

This is really too bad. When I first came here, it was because I was in an AGR. I'm not now, but I've come to enjoy the comraderie around here. I won't rule out another AGR in the future, even though I'm not limiting myself to just that.

I'll miss you, Kat, but you already know that!

I hope your plans don't include cancelling your membership.

Well, I'm obviously not going anywhere anytime soon!

There are still a lot of good people here - some in AGRs and some not. I hate to see anyone leave, but that is the ebb & flow of this place. People come here to get what they need and when it can no longer give them that, it's natural to move on.

I have an AGR, but it's pretty low in drama. So I'm basically not here for my AGR either. But I know I have something to say to folks who suddenly are facing a possible relationship with a much younger partner and I want to be here for them the way many of the people who are now leaving were there for me - to tell them that they are not crazy or too old or sick or wrong or too fat or too wrinkled or...or...or.

I don't know that if I hadn't had my confidence boosted by this place I would have given Jeremy the chance that I did.

It can get tiresome after a while. Seeing the same questions, the same prejudices, the same pre-conceived notions expressed over and over. I can see why some people would want to step away. And maybe that is a good thing - to keep the responses from turning too jaded, too pat. If I start to get that way, where I just don't seem to care anymore and where this place puts a frown on my face more than a smile, I'll know it's time to walk away, as well.

People who leave are missed greatly, but Ageless is a better place for having had them and it marches on for the new members.

WR, that was a really lovely post!

I'm not in an AGR anymore (sigh) :(, but I hope that I'm still welcome to stick about anyway. I find many of the posts intriguing.

OMG, this is turning into an I'm leaving too thread!

I do miss Harrison!

I don't post as much as I used to myself for some of the same reasons as Kat7. I'm no longer in an age gap relationship, and I have decided that many of them are simply not for me any longer.
I can't think for the life of me now why or how I dated someone over 20 TWENTY years younger than me.

I guess I was going through the same thing men go through when they hit their forties. I am over it though. The thought of dating a man that young is distinctly unappealing.

Ali

C'mon now, let's not poke fun of our OMs here.

I'm curious to know what made you come to that conclusion - ruling out AGR's forever.

I myself am no longer in an AGR, but what made me stay is the members of this community. They've been supportive, and I must say that if it weren't for this site, I probably wouldn't have even given an AGR with a man 30 years my senior a chance. So that's why this place has a special place in my heart. And I guess when a community is hit by a huge wave such as this, it somewhat affects the morale of the community members. But you guys are right, things change, people change, but even then, life goes on...

I'm not in an AGR anymore (sigh) :(, but I hope that I'm still welcome to stick about anyway. I find many of the posts intriguing.

As WR mentioned, in every forum there is an constant change in membership. We were all new once, and back then there were people who left, others came back and new members kept joining in.

I don't know that if I hadn't had my confidence boosted by this place I would have given Jeremy the chance that I did.

YES!!! I never would have dared have my delightful, delicious, memorable, life-affirming relationship with a YM if it weren't for Ageless. :)

It can get tiresome after a while. Seeing the same questions, the same prejudices, the same pre-conceived notions expressed over and over. I can see why some people would want to step away. And maybe that is a good thing - to keep the responses from turning too jaded, too pat. ...

You're right. It amazes me how so many members are able to talk to the OP as if it's the first time they've heard it because they know it's the first time for the OP and they know how important their first time was. Kudos to everyone that does that!

People who leave are missed greatly, but Ageless is a better place for having had them and it marches on for the new members.

Well said. Sounds like a eulogy: acknowledge that we miss them; appreciate their contributions; and remind the mourners that life goes on.

Kat, while I certainly understand on one level, guess I still do not understand leaving "over all".
When you had a problem with your neighbor.....your friends here were there for you.
Same with Marcy, Harrison, etc...
Seems to me, and YES, I know I am sensitive, that many are slamming the door in the face of the many who do care about you and saying...."your not important enough to me".
All of these people leaving have been here for almost 5 years.....I remember when each one of you first joined.
Why is it that the negative comments, myself included sometimes, weigh heavier than the good???
Not saying that you should be "glued" to this place every moment but still....
Just a thought.
Blessings, TD

I agree.... :(

A lot of what I see going on behind the scenes are problems with personality conflicts. It just seems to me that the 50 people on the board you get along with, whom you like and who like you..should outweigh the two or so members that just bug the crud out of you. :( Not YOU...just a general statement.

I'm really sorry to see people I have known for a long time leaving...I wish there was more I could do.

I agree.... :(

A lot of what I see going on behind the scenes are problems with personality conflicts. It just seems to me that the 50 people on the board you get along with, whom you like and who like you..should outweigh the two or so members that just bug the crud out of you. :( Not YOU...just a general statement.

I'm really sorry to see people I have known for a long time leaving...I wish there was more I could do.

I agree 100%, but in reality some people leave jobs they love because of a co-worker they dislike; some people move away from a town they love because of problems with a few people; and some people leave Ageless because of things said by a few people - no matter how many other people don't agree, or how many people they really like here, or how many people really like them. It's life.

Well, I haven't been posting a whole lot in recent months; just an occasional word here and there, but I don't plan on leaving; I'm not that easy to get rid of:p

This has been a wonderful place for me, especially in the early days of my now four year long relationship with my lovely OW! A lot good info and a lot of good people. I still believe that both of those ingredients are alive and well here.

All forums have ebb and flow. Sometimes, people do leave because the things that brought them here are no longer a part of their lives. Others leave because of personal issues. But then there are times when we have a lot of newcomers who stay and become old timers.

Even if my relationship with my OW were to conclude, I would still stay on would certainly be very open to another OW/YM relationship. And if nothing else, I have made a good number of friends here!

In any case, I'm glad to be here and I don't plan on going!:D

Daniel

And on that positive, upbeat note, I'm off to run my errands! Thanks, Daniel!

I take breaks from Ageless once and awhile. I miss the good ol' days where everyone got along (for the most part). I hate it when long-time members leave. :-( Wish they would come back once and awhile just to say hi.

Hey people....I never really left....just had no need to come here for awhile until I replaced the fly-by-night boyfriend! :bgrin2: I talked about Nate a bit in a couple of other comments, but he was my friend first and foremost. I needed to see if this guy was truly the one who was in it for the long haul. I fell in love with him because being friends would have been good enough for him. And they say that real love is friendship caught fire...and it certainly did explode into something more. :bunny_4:

I'm trying to coax Nate into coming here because this site is so much more supportive than just hanging out on a dating site and trying to field all the continuous emails and chat requests.

I'm sorry to hear that some members are leaving...and I was looking forward to seeing Harrison's contributions....DARN! :( But for the most part, I'm happy to be be back! :monkeydance:

I won't be among those leaving. Let's see why . . .

1. It's a worldwide place where I can be an ambassador for my underappreciated metropolis. :) See the "What's your favorite city in the world?" thread in the other Chit Chat.

2. I've been a member for 5 years now, I think, and I'm totally hooked.

3. I enjoy all the dialogue and banter and questions. Some posters over the years I've found annoying. I don't flip out--I just scroll by their posts quickly. :D

4. I think I'm totally hard-wired to be drawn to older women. The way my love life has worked out, I definitely have a preference!

Oh, and if I got in a snit and bailed, I'd be denying myself the privilege of seeing Venus Dark Star's new avatar! ;)

I won't be among those leaving. Let's see why . . .

1. It's a worldwide place where I can be an ambassador for my underappreciated metropolis. :) See the "What's your favorite city in the world?" thread in the other Chit Chat.

2. I've been a member for 5 years now, I think, and I'm totally hooked.

3. I enjoy all the dialogue and banter and questions. Some posters over the years I've found annoying. I don't flip out--I just scroll by their posts quickly. :D

4. I think I'm totally hard-wired to be drawn to older women. The way my love life has worked out, I definitely have a preference!

Oh, and if I got in a snit and bailed, I'd be denying myself the privilege of seeing Venus Dark Star's new avatar! ;)

I wish there were more people that managed to take that attitude!!!:thumbsup_still:

sbux....I hear ya...change can be sad, and really hard sometimes.

But here's why I'm back (you and me both, Venus!) :)...after taking a much-needed break for a couple of months... I feel rested and ready to return with whatever I have to offer here at AL:D. I received many pm's after I left (I never asked for my membership to be removed) encouraging me to stay, and I knew how many people here had become genuine friends over the years. I have continued to pm many in the past couple of months.

But it was one pm I just received the other day from a young woman who has been here reading for 4 years that spurred me to return. Her mom was dating a ym and came here for "support" a while back. Both she and her mom were concerned (like we all were when we first came to AL!)....I don't remember the thread, but apparently her mom was told by many to "go for it", full speed ahead....don't worry about a thing, his age is not important as long as he is legal," etc. I guess I and few others said, "Go slowly...don't jump in...be careful not to co-entangle your lives/finances too soon..." etc.

The guy ended up being a player:mad:. This daughter just wanted to send a pm (thanking me and the few others) for giving her mom support in the form of straight forward, experiential advice from my own lessons-learned back then, rather than just virtual "hi-fives". Hearing my, and the others, experiences and cautionary advice helped her mom be stronger and more informed when she needed to be. And, I'm sure all of the long term members here have gotten similar pm's thanking them for their advice. Point: the advice you may give or I may give ALL has value:yes:

By the way, her mom is fine now:)

I realized that I first came to AL - way back in early 2002 and lurked - because I was FREAKED OUT about loving a very young man. BUT, I stayed because of the members I respected most who didn't pull punches with me...who always told it like it was for them, in a kind, genuine way even though I didn't always like it because it felt negative from their own experiences. Their wisdom and support helped me make the decisions I needed to make along the way for my OWN personal emotional health. If I can help just one person, that's a reason to be here. Kat, Harrison, Lovaholic and others contemplating leaving....you have all helped me a time or two:D...and many others I'd venture to say. Your continued input here would be really valued. Take a break if you need one, but come back, okay?

Like Kristin said, my AGR marriage is pretty low drama...
...But, I know I have something to say to folks who suddenly are facing a possible relationship with a much younger partner and I want to be here for them..... to share my thoughts and experiences so they can have a relationship tool chest for SUCCESS ...whether they stay with this particular person or not! Having a healthy relationship with YOURSELF is paramount, I believe. Sometimes that may mean delaying gratification until you are sure you and the other person are both ready.

It's interesting, the perspective you get when you step away and just visit to read, but not post. There is a refreshing objectivity with that: you begin to see the personalities of the members in a truer light than when you are wondering how the heck to word your next thread so that it's honest but won't hurt anyone! I've realized that as much as we may genuinely try, it's just not possible to make everyone happy....there is misinterpretation of posts right and left, insecurities that cause reactions to even the most inert comment, confrontations just because some people like being confrontational !
As sad as it has been to read about all of the transitions and frustrations going on around here in the past several weeks (and a few members who have left as a result), it has been a relief not to feel like I was the cause of any of it! In other words, the drama will happen with me or without me (duh!)...so why not just be here, duck the drama, and try to help and be a positive presence where I can?

I mean, sheesh, you know it's time to take a break when it seems like every post you write is being challenged and you begin to feel like your presence alone is causing more discord than good amongst everyone reading. That's where I was when I bowed out...Ummm, HELLO? Took me a few, but I realize now that I don't have THAT kinda power:tongue2:. I'm also working on not taking things so personally:o. Fact: I will write what I will write with good intentions, and some will like it or not.

Took me long enough to get it.

In the meantime, I'm back, and will offer whatever "wisdom" I have from my own experiences to the newbies that come here with questions about AGR's and to any member who asks for advice that I feel I can contribute to. I, as in the past, will continue to believe I have a lot to learn as well, and don't have all the answers...but I may have some, and I will tell it like it is to me, with non judgment and in a spirit of encouragement.

Kat, Harrison, etc....at least keep your membership open so that we can pm you once in a while just to see how you're doin' or to ask for advise, k? Oh, and to the Mods...wow you guys, kudos for the tireless/thankless work you do around here. I for one have a lot of respect for you because I could never give the kind of time you do as volunteers for this great cause: an AGR website (which is incidentally the most googled on the web, the one referred to in notable books, and the one responsible for the success of many relationships that started here !!!).

Good to be back

OMG OMG OMG!!!!!!!!!!! SPECIAL K IS BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:yay::runnningaround: Glad to see you!!! ((HUG))

Welcome back, Karen! :)

Hey Karen! *waves* Welcome back!!!

Hey old friend, WB....you KNOW I am thrilled your back!!!!
Love, J

hey sp wb:)

Hey SK....glad to see you back!!!

I too take breaks...sometimes quite long breaks from the site. My life is full and good and happy. And when things start getting a bit crazy on the boards...I just step back from it. I hate conflict!! Hate it!! And I don't like rudeness and insensitivity. I think people can voice their opinions with tact and diplomacy if they take the time to empathise more often.

There are people here whom I truly admire and wish I could live closer to because I know we owuld be great friends...for that reason I continue to check in and when I see a place where I can help I am there posting.

Even when you don't see me active on the boards, there are times when I am replying to PM's I get from someone needing advice. So you are all stuck with me!:yes:

Welcome Back ((((Karen))))!!! :D

And, just in case I didn't say it before your break--CONGRATS on your marriage! From LA, all best to you and Jake for a lifetime of happiness!

Welcome back VenusDarkStar & Special K!

Special K, I think I started around the time when you decided to leave - I could vaguely remember what went down, but I'm so glad that despite what happened, you've decided to come back!

KAREN!!!! {{{HUGS}}}} Yay!! You're back!!

And Sbux, this was nothing...we've had far bigger and more dramatic mass exoduses than this.

I find this all sort of sad, but I also feel it doesn't hurt some of these people to step away from these boards. I suspect for most it will be a temporary retreat. I think sometimes, myself included, we come here out of boredom and habit, and I agree with Kat, that the quality of what we say and the support that we gives suffers because of it. When we post stuff just to beat boredom or stir stuff up, we can come off as flippant or uncaring, and that when feelings start to get hurt. I think too many of us get off on the drama of the place, and it may benefit all, when we periodically cool our jets. I'm not leaving the site, but I intend to cut back considerably, because the support I really needed most when I came here, is so much more available to me now in the real world and I really should read a book or two! ;)

I'm thrilled to see Karen back, because we really have lost some collective wisdom in the last week, in the loss off Kat, Bubbleee, Marci, Eponovet, Miu, and Harrison.

:358:Welcome Back!
Special K
and Venus Dark Star

Hi Karen and Venus! Welcome back! :cool:

See guys? Ebb & flow...:yes:

C'mon now, let's not poke fun of our OMs here.

I'm curious to know what made you come to that conclusion - ruling out AGR's forever.

I myself am no longer in an AGR, but what made me stay is the members of this community. They've been supportive, and I must say that if it weren't for this site, I probably wouldn't have even given an AGR with a man 30 years my senior a chance. So that's why this place has a special place in my heart. And I guess when a community is hit by a huge wave such as this, it somewhat affects the morale of the community members. But you guys are right, things change, people change, but even then, life goes on...


I just wanted to let you know that I decided the VERY YOUNG MAN relationship was a bad deal. We often are experiments in living for them, and that is putting it politely. I *stayed* with Ageless because I saw so many ow coming in and saying they'd met a vym at the gym, online gaming, etc. and they were asking, could he be in love with me, could it happen. But despite the few successes that we had with that, more women came back to say they'd been hurt by it all. One thing I found about an age gap breakup is that it is more than just breaking up, it bashes your ego in a unique and individual way. And who needs that? Not me, or anyone else I know. My nine months with my ym opened my eyes to a brand new set of possibilities, but I learned that I personally did not want to date anyone under 30 or so. In my eyes, they're babies. I mean no disrespect to anyone with a working vym age gap relationship, none in the slightest, but you have to allow me this difference too.

I stayed because of the comaraderie, and the fact that I might be able to help someone stay out of emotional trouble when they got in over their heads with an age gap.

Lately on the board though, some of my posts have been misinterpreted and people have responded explosively. Maybe it's just that time of the year???

Ali

Sbux, Miu didn't leave, she was banned for repeated rules violations despite multiple warnings. It's really a personal matter between Miu and the moderation team, so we can't go into the details.

Of a few others who have indicated that they may/are leaving, the primary issues seem to stem from personality conflicts.

I wish that this kind of thing didn't happen. It would be so wonderful if people could put aside their conflicts and find a way to get along or tolerate each other. But, sometimes, some people just feel that they are unable to do that. Or some of them feel that if they still kept an account here, that they would be too tempted to come here and post, and they feel they need a break.

I've been here for 4 1/2 years. And, I've seen people come, people go, and some people come and go. Ageless is a community. Like in all communities, some people get along with each other, some don't. Some are able to tolerate differences, some cannot. I doubt that this will be the last time, although it is my sincerest wish that we will one day get to the point where people can find a way to tolerate each other's differences and not let the differences cause stress in their personal lives.

It does leave a huge hole here when someone leaves, and makes everyone feel very down. I think we go through the grief process here when someone who is very familiar to us leaves, for whatever reason.

My hope is that we can use this time to heal. I hope that eventually we will look forward rather than backward, and open our arms to new members who are coming here looking for support and move onward and upward.

Of course we got whiterose tied down with ropes and duct tape so she coudln't leave even if she wanted to...:cool:

Of course we got whiterose tied down with ropes and duct tape so she coudln't leave even if she wanted to...:cool:

Oh, great. Now GG and Jen will want to be moderators, too! Nice going, Mano! :rofl:

Oh, great. Now GG and Jen will want to be moderators, too! Nice going, Mano! :rofl:

DID SOMEONE SAY DUCT TAPE AND ROPE??????:bgrin2::tongue2:

How could anyone have taken anything negative that I said about vym relationships personally?

How could that be?

When I share what happened with my life, and what I now feel about age gap that does not mean that I'm trying to say that you aren't in a valid love relationship! I loved my vym, and just because of the way I see things now, I don't think that will ever be for me again.

I've stated over and over again that I am here for those who've had bad experiences with VYM because I know exactly what happens when there is a break up!

Peace ladies!!!!

Ali

I think that...when a VYM relationship breaks up, it is very difficult like LB mentioned. It's not...the same.

I think it takes us so long to convince ourselves that, yes, someone this much younger could be interested, could have real feelings for us, could love us....that if it doesn't work out, it is like validating all those doubts we had in the beginning that we talked ourselves out of.

LB...Im sorry you had a bad experience.

I'm one of those who had a VYM relationship that has worked out...but I know how much a breakup hurts, and Im sorry that you had to go through that.

Nice to see you back, Karen (SpecialK):)

Yes, it is sad to see longtime members leave, for whatever reason. Every forum goes through this. People come and go, unfortunately. There was a period when I didn't post here for several months simply for the fact that my life was pretty busy at the time. I guess sometimes many of us just need a break from things.. to step away from the computer and give attention to what is going on in our lives. And just because someone leaves doesn't mean they're never coming back.:)

I'm thrilled to see Karen back, because we really have lost some collective wisdom in the last week, in the loss off Kat, Bubbleee, Marci, Eponovet, Miu, and Harrison.

Eponavet is among us. She has the thread about the grand opening of her new business. :)

Wecome back, Karen and Venus!!!!

Of course we got whiterose tied down with ropes and duct tape so she coudln't leave even if she wanted to...:cool:


Ha! Unfortunately, I think there are some who would prefer to keep me tied and taped up for other reasons. :eek:

Ha! Unfortunately, I think there are some who would prefer to keep me tied and taped up for other reasons. :eek:


hmmm.... your kinky side!!!
;)

Legally:
I have a relationship with a 27 yr old man. We started when he was 23 (VYM). It started over the internet, LDR for 2 years. It is working so far.

I do not take your warnings about this type of relationship personally. Why would I? Some of these relationships DO NOT work.

I have a very good internet gf who met a guy on Yahoo. He was 10 years younger. She figured that if I developed a happy relationship with a YM that I met on the internet she could too. It did not work, he was a liar and a player who was even married! It was traumatic and it took her 2 years to get over this. I feel bad because I told her "go for it", when she asked me for advise. Our circumstances were not the same but I did not want to sound like a downer. :(

Wow! I didn't log on last night and now this morning, people are being tied up and taped down. I need to log in more often!

Daniel

Wow! I didn't log on last night and now this morning, people are being tied up and taped down. I need to log in more often!

Daniel

heck i want a turn now to! lol

You know, I would enter into any relationship with caution - I would never go into a relationship expecting it to last forever! However I am more than happy with how my relationship with my "vym" is going - eyes wide open and all :bgrin2:

I'm not a voracious poster, I can't log on while I'm at work and I'm taking a degree in my spare time so between that and spending time with Andrew, I don't get much time to surf. But I'm not going anywhere, even though my relationship is also one of very little drama.

Not that that will matter to many, since I'm not the most social poster here :o

heck i want a turn now to! lol

Me three!:p

Daniel

I don't really know VenusDarkStar...I probably wasn't around when you were posting...and you don't know me. But welcome back anyway.

And Special K, always did enjoy your posts, look forward to reading more of your insightful thoughts.

My reason for taking breaks is because right now I have no computer at home and I don't feel good about visiting during work, except on a break or lunch....also I'm swamped at the office. And I hate to not be able to really read and spend time to offer something valuable...so when I get in those phases, I visit now and then to check my PMs. It's nothing personal against anyone or the site. I also participate on a couple of other forums so, it depends on what I am involved with at the time.

I enjoy this site very much, but periodically have a need for a break, and also I have a new policy for myself to give myself blocks of internet-free time, which I personally feel is important for my mental and physical well-being.:D

Hi Karen & welcome back. I too take my little breaks from AL; hard not to when things get ugly. I eventually start to miss everyone & come back to get caught up. I am hoping the recent "vacationers" will do the same.;)

I do not know where to post this but I just saw that bubbleee is gone too! OMG what is going on?

I am CLUELESS! :confused:

Special K hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii! :D

Welcome back! :yes:

in the loss off Kat, Bubbleee, Marci, Eponovet, Miu, and Harrison.

Gosh I am so sad to see so many dear ones gone! :eek:

I am not in an agegap relationship, nor in a realtionship for that matter. But I really enjoy being here, sharing and reading about everybody, even if it just about frogs! :tongue2:

But then I seldom get in debates! :rolleyes: I have too many of those in real life to get pulled that way on any web site...

C'est la vie, and life keeps going. :cool:

P. S. I am reading the posts on this thread backwards (that is, from most recent to oldest, that it is why my answers may not seem they fit with the postings, but who cares, right? Funny me!

That has happened before, where people splinter off because someone they like gets banned and they don't come back. Ooops, mods, I know it's dirty laundry, but it is truth!

I just saw that Bubbleee deleted herself from the members list, she's been here a long time for that matter. As long as I have, at least, since 2002. I know from past experiences that some of the members with ongoing and successful age gaps involving VYM often felt put upon by the differences of opinion on the board about that particular issue. I had hoped that was an issue that could be tolerated among us. I was in one so I know where the ladies are coming from on some of it, especially the public intolerance they sometimes face. But I think it's become a hot button touchy issue on the board. And we must all remember that with a VYM we are speaking of a man of at least 18 years of age, so it's not illegal or anything.

I think maybe some of them will come back, given time. Sometimes you simply have to take a break from your computer and do something else for a while.

Ali

I removed Bubs at her request. Her leaving the site didn't have anything to do with moderation, or with the VYM situation, or over anyone getting banned.

It was another issue altogether that I am not at liberty to discuss, but you could contact her and get the story from her. :)

I really love Bubs to death, and I will miss her dearly.

Bubs????
Man, I pray it wasn't b/c I was razzing her about the "blogging" thing.
I truly didn't know what a blog was....I DO now:o
Here is the thing with certain opinions on some of these relationship issues.
The longer this site exists the more our experiences are going to influence what we say by way of advice....kind of like the long range side effects of certain new medications....does that make sense?
I came here in the summer of 2001 over a crush a y/m had on me....
All of these years later, I have my own unique experiences and opinions.
As does everyone else....why does that have to be viewed as positive or negative....it is just my experiences, etc...
So what.
At any rate, if my sarcasim on the blogging crap had anything to do with it...I feel really bad....I may not always agree with her but I respect and value her opinion very much and will miss the banter.
Blessings, TD

Naaaaa...it wasn't you either.

I hope she will come back....I know a lot of people will miss her, not the least of which shall be ME!

Thanks for letting me know that....I am overtired and have been having a hard few days!
Bubs, come back when and if you start to miss us :D

One reason I'll miss Bubs is that she and Phil had another of the really big age gaps on the site. If I recall correctly, they are 33 years apart, just like myself (38) and my lovely lady (71).

Yes, they did have one of the larger age gaps, and I think are an inspirational couple.

I miss the days when Phil used to post...it's always nice to see a couple participating together, and he really has a way with words and getting his point across without being..a jerk. :D

Speaking of large age gaps and, Dave, Helen Mirren....I couldn't sleep last night and a movie came on that I'd never seen with Cuba Gooding Jr. and Helen Mirren, disturbing but awesome movie called "Shadow Boxer", and um Dave....she BARES all and then some in this flick:eek:
If you are a fan...this movie is a must see!!!

Have to chime in to say I love Shadow Boxer and I even posted once about it. My YM and I watched it together during one of our visits. He was a Helen Mirren fan before I even knew who she was. So I guess he is seriously into older women. Loved the striptease number, love the way a younger man and older woman faced her impending death. I thought on so many levels it was a great movie. My YM thought it was a little incestuous, but I loved that you can have gray hair, wrinkles and still be smokin' hot!

That aside, I have talked with some of these people who have left and I think most of them, including myself, feel some frustration with the place, but we all have slightly different slants. It honestly doesn't hurt to take a breather. I'm going to try to do that, without entirely cutting the apron strings! So far, I don't think its working.:eek:

Welcome back, Special K!!! Wow, sis, it's good to see you back here! :)

I too, agree with LB. VYM seem like babies to me. Robin seemed like a baby to me at 21, when we met. I was turning 37. I came here because I thought I was nuts for thinking this could be a relationship. We had some good years, but then it turned really bad. A lot of it was due to his growing and changing as a person. We all constantly grow and change, but not as dramatically as someone in their late teens, early twenties.

I never understood why people would get offended at my VYM comments. I don't put people down for being in these relationships, and I don't judge them, I simply have an opinion about a large age gap (over ten years is large to me) with a VYM. An 18 and a 38 is waaaaaay different than a 40 and a 60. I'm not saying "Don't do it!" I'm just saying that you're dealing with someone who has a lot of self growth to experience, and he'll need the room to do that, AND you might not be happy with the end result. Be ready for a roller coaster ride.

For those who are in successful relationships with VYM, I'm happy for you and I wish you all the best! :yes:

That aside, I have talked with some of these people who have left and I think most of them, including myself, feel some frustration with the place, but we all have slightly different slants. It honestly doesn't hurt to take a breather. I'm going to try to do that, without entirely cutting the apron strings! So far, I don't think its working.:eek:
Meh...I've quit this place at least a dozen times - but only in my head! I'd get all ticked off or offended. Then I walk away for a few days - or even an hour - and then realize that I don't want to let someone else take away all of the people here from me. I'm too addicted. :p So here I still am!

Meh...I've quit this place at least a dozen times - but only in my head! I'd get all ticked off or offended. Then I walk away for a few days - or even an hour - and then realize that I don't want to let someone else take away all of the people here from me. I'm too addicted. :p So here I still am!

:yes:

I remember walking my dog at 3:30 in the morning crying, arguing out loud, and preparing my "goodbye forever" PM's to type when I got back to the house. Never did send them!

Yup...y'all should ask Katrina how many times I have asked her if she wanted to take over my admin position (before she, herself, was an admin). I've been so tired/hurt/frustrated/angry a few times that even I wanted to walk....

A few hours time usually takes care of that urge though....

I wonder if I'm missing some important life experience? I've never gotten angry about anything happening on Ageless, nor have I gotten mad at any member.

I wonder if I'm missing some important life experience? I've never gotten angry about anything happening on Ageless, nor have I gotten mad at any member.

Silly! Do you miss having a toothache? :p

In Spanish there is an old song by Julio Iglesias that says something like this:

Unos vienen, otros se van... y la vida sigue igual... bla, bla, bla...

Some (people) get here (arrive), others take off (leave).. and life remains the same... blah, blah, blah...

Just thought of sharing that! :D

LOl Chat.....I made my grand exit once in 2003 and have had a few "almosts" over the years.
Now? Eh....so what!
I'm here and do not plan on ever leaving for good!
Blessings, TD

LOl Chat.....I made my grand exit once in 2003 and have had a few "almosts" over the years.
Now? Eh....so what!
I'm here and do not plan on ever leaving for good!
Blessings, TD

:)

I think it was Kristin who said she's just too dang stubborn to leave. I think there's several of us that fall into that category OR we really love this place and weather the bad times, knowing they'll pass; and knowing that if someone hurts our feelings, somebody else will give us a hug; and if someone makes us see red, someone else will make us laugh.

Marcy is my friend and I will miss her.

Bubbleee is one of my best friends and I'll miss her at AL, but I'll still get to enjoy her company elsewhere.

I don't know Kat, but I'll miss the chance to know her.

Eponavet leaving? I doubt that. I think she'll be here a long time. Take a break maybe, but not leave. Cutdown her time here maybe, but not leave. I think.



Eponavet is leaving.....

Not deleting, but I too have grown away from this place. I wanted to share my grand opening with everyone here and I did that. Like SpecialK, I may return, but for now, I just don't have much to add, no fun threads are popping up these days, no interesting debates....sexually speaking has been more dead than the sex life in a 40 year marriage :p and I used to enjoy the varied and fun threads there, as well as the thought provoking topics Harrison and others brought up. There are plenty of people here to guide new members....so you guys have fun!

Happy Holidays everyone! I hope 2008 is a wonderful year for us all!!!

epo...have a safe journey!

After that amazing post in response to Mano's situation ... :(

*sigh*

Best of luck and much happiness, eponavet.

Welcome back, Special K!!! Wow, sis, it's good to see you back here! :)

I too, agree with LB. VYM seem like babies to me. Robin seemed like a baby to me at 21, when we met. I was turning 37. I came here because I thought I was nuts for thinking this could be a relationship. We had some good years, but then it turned really bad. A lot of it was due to his growing and changing as a person. We all constantly grow and change, but not as dramatically as someone in their late teens, early twenties.

I never understood why people would get offended at my VYM comments. I don't put people down for being in these relationships, and I don't judge them, I simply have an opinion about a large age gap (over ten years is large to me) with a VYM. An 18 and a 38 is waaaaaay different than a 40 and a 60. I'm not saying "Don't do it!" I'm just saying that you're dealing with someone who has a lot of self growth to experience, and he'll need the room to do that, AND you might not be happy with the end result. Be ready for a roller coaster ride.

For those who are in successful relationships with VYM, I'm happy for you and I wish you all the best! :yes:

Or maybe for them. I don't know, I think many get upset if they are in a VYM relationship and then I come on the board and say that mine didn't work, and I don't see too many that last. People get mad as blazes at that, as if I'm ABLE to take away something from them. I know it sounds judgemental, and I don't mean it to be. But that was my experience. And I've seen so many others pop on Ageless with some version of the VYM story. And typically they wind up being hurt. I don't know if the VYM wind up as hurt and confused as us, I'm not privy to how my ex feels.

Ali

Or maybe for them. I don't know, I think many get upset if they are in a VYM relationship and then I come on the board and say that mine didn't work, and I don't see too many that last. People get mad as blazes at that, as if I'm ABLE to take away something from them. I know it sounds judgemental, and I don't mean it to be. But that was my experience. And I've seen so many others pop on Ageless with some version of the VYM story. And typically they wind up being hurt. I don't know if the VYM wind up as hurt and confused as us, I'm not privy to how my ex feels.

Ali

I guess I'll get sucked into this one.... again!

The thing is that people feel like this kind of reasoning is used well out of proportion and is not factual. Are there any statistics on exactly how many relationships with VYM don't last? Are there any set in stone figures that anyone here can point to and really say, for sure, this is exactly the percentage of these relationships that 'fail'?

The vast, vast majority of OW who come onto this site have had a relationship with at least 1 same age man. Many have had more. Those relationships have NOT worked. The overwhelming majority of relationships do NOT work out in the long-term. No-one uses that as an example that "relationships don't work".

People do not want to come here to be told that their relationships are going to fail.

I'll tell you what... I'm happy to continue posting exactly that kind of thing right after the 'anti-VYM' crowd post their views, and if they don't like that then it's tough and they'll have to consider that I'm only doing what they are... having a different opinion.

could someone define a VYM, please? as in how young? thank you.

This is the disagreement that will never end.

What about the millions of VYM that fall in love and are totally devoted for the rest of their lives???

I don't get it. Everytime someone posts that they are an OW in a relationship with a YM do we all jump in and tell her of our bad experiences with OW/YM relationships? No. Do we warn her about the failure-rate of relationships between OW and YM? No. Why not? Because that is NOT WHY WE ARE HERE.

Well, I think the Long-Term Relationship Forum being a complete failure speaks for itself. Again, I'm not saying to anyone, "Don't do this!" but I'm saying, "Had I known what would happen to me years down the road, would I have chosen a different path, certainly!" Now, some people might say, "Well, it failed but it was worth the pain." Okay, that's another perspective. I guess mine is, "The younger they are, the more problems you're going to have."

I'm not ANTI-vym...I'm REALIST-vym. How old are you, Rob? Just for reference.

Again, I'm not saying "Don't have a relationship with a vym" I'm saying, "It's a hard road...be prepared." I think it's our responsibility, ESPECIALLY mine, after being a member here since 2000 (although my avatar says differently) to be completely honest about what happened in my relationship. We are all so clouded in our judgement the first few years, the honeymoon years, we'll overlook anything (some of us will, not all) to rationalize this. Then, when the trouble (usually financial) starts, we act like we're totally surprised by it all. Well, let's look at the facts...men under 21 don't have much work experience. Men in college don't graduate much before 22, and then have to build a working career...of course there's a financial burden!

Then there's the issue of partying. I have to sigh when I hear from some ow "My ym doesn't like to party!" Yeah, is he OF AGE??? Because until they're OF AGE, they really don't care that much about it. THEY AREN'T ALLOWED INTO BARS! I wouldn't care much about a place I wasn't allowed into. Then you get the ym who were raised in a situation where they didn't get to "act out" like a normal teen, and gain their independence. So the ow is the first opportunity, but eventually, they grow into their own and dump her. Sorry to say, seen it here a hundred times.

There are AGR's that work. There are AGR's that inspire. I don't knock AGR
s or people in them.

Why am I here? Because sometimes, an ow/ym fling or relationship can drive a woman suicial. I know what that's like. I know how being at that dark place feels. I actually seek those threads out and respond. I want women to know they can survive it and move forward. To the younger man, it's no big deal. He might sting a bit, but he recovers quickly. To her, she's lost the love of her life, and suddenly, she's in a downward spiral. Don't even attempt, Rob, to tell me that that isn't true. I've seen it over and over again, and experienced it myself.

When people have this bubbly "OMG, I'm with a ym, what do I do???" thread, I don't even go there. Let them have their dreams. I'm here for the ones who literally don't know how to pick themselves back up. And trust me Rob, this site needs those like me for that. :(

Well, I think the Long-Term Relationship Forum being a complete failure speaks for itself. ...

Well, I neither want to hijack this thread for an often run discussion nor do I have the time to post intensively, so let me just say: You might feel that the above speaks for itself, but imo, one of the resason of lack of activity in that region might be due to the fact that frankly, in a working LTR, there is not much need to post on forums ... At least I don't ...

And for the record, I do consider my relationship with my vym as "working long-term" after 4.5 years now - and I fully agree with Rob that at least some people always seems to change their frame of reference of what constitutes a working or successful relationship when it comes to vym. But hey, I haven't so far cared in the past, but with Marcy etc gone, I feel I should just point out that this bias still seems to exist ...

Now I am off to work, wishing everyone a nice day and if I am not around again to post before Christmas: Merry christmas to all of you, peace on Earth etc. etc. etc. :D

I am happy that the truth has been exposed: not all members of Ageless support agegap relationships.

Well, I neither want to hijack this thread for an often run discussion nor do I have the time to post intensively, so let me just say: You might feel that the above speaks for itself, but imo, one of the resason of lack of activity in that region might be due to the fact that frankly, in a working LTR, there is not much need to post on forums ... At least I don't ...

And for the record, I do consider my relationship with my vym as "working long-term" after 4.5 years now - and I fully agree with Rob that at least some people always seems to change their frame of reference of what constitutes a working or successful relationship when it comes to vym. But hey, I haven't so far cared in the past, but with Marcy etc gone, I feel I should just point out that this bias still seems to exist ...

Now I am off to work, wishing everyone a nice day and if I am not around again to post before Christmas: Merry christmas to all of you, peace on Earth etc. etc. etc. :D


I think there is a lot of truth in this! I concider Joel and me for long term, we have been married for been together for 3 years and married for 2 1/2 and are now "working on"... but other than that there is very little to tell, I think that in the time we have been married we have had one "fight" and that must have ben over something really trivial because I can't even remember what it was.
I'm not saying that everything is rose red, but I don't come here to post over things like Joel "forgot" to hang up the laundry or didn't put the cap back on the toothpaste.
I think this is how a lot of us that could have been posting in LTR feel and that's why we don't post.

Everyday life really isn't all that interesting to read about ;)

Well, I think the Long-Term Relationship Forum being a complete failure speaks for itself.

Polly, I'm not aware that the LTR forum is a failure. One of the problems is this notion that you don't have a LTR until you have been together "X" number of years, so a lot of people feel some trepidation about posting there. I would like to point out that particular part of the boards has nothing to do with VYM or any particular age gap, so I have to agree with Rob's point, maybe the problem is that long term relationships in general are just plain hard to maintain.

Getting back to the point of the thread (i.e. what;s happening at Ageless), one of the problems here is that we state our opinions as though they are fact. We all do that, but honestly, just because one person has a miserable outcome with a much younger man doesn't mean that everyone will. What we do here is to share our stories, but the truth is, our stories are anecdotal...this goes for successes as well as failures. We share because there is the sense of reassurance in knowing that others are experiencing similar things. To that end, I think all points of view should be welcome. They are exactly that, points of view, not fact. Once I got this through my fat head, I took much less offense when people said things I didn't want to hear.

I am another here to say that these relationships work. I met my vym (I never called him that) when he was 18. Right before he turned 21 he moved 3000 miles to be with me. He will be 25 in 2008. So 4 years later he still looks at me with hungry eyes and calls me sexy and beautiful everyday ! I dont post down in the LTR forum, because all I would have to say would sound like bragging. I dont have to many issues with my man. The ones that crop up we deal with and we are still madly in love and happy. He tells me he will love me forever and I believe him. If he ever stopped loving me, the way he has treated me would set president for any other man that ever came into my life. I think some relationships are good and some are not, age really does not have much to do with it.

It is sad people leave this site over this argument. There should be no bias here...it is a support site, right.

Wendy

The post that was funny to me was chatterbox's. I left this reply in limbo too long for it to post under hers. Anywho....peace out!

Wendy, you need to head down to LTR's and do some bragging!! We love that sort of stuff. (At least I do!) :bgrin2:.

I wish we would all stop speculating about why people have gone. I have recieved e-mails from 5 people who have left or are leaving, and I have heard five different reasons. These people share some reasons and differ greatly on others. I'm not sure there is much point to continuing to conjecture.

If all the "good folks" leave b/c they feel there is a shortage of "good folks" then less "good folks" will come here in the first place...and heck, what about the "good folks" who are still here, what are they/we (depending on who's judging) supposed to do???

So, why don't we all hang in there?

I too look back on the "golden" days of ageless with much fondness, then I realize it wasn't that ageless was necessarily any different than it is today - it was just that *I* was different. AL was a new site to me and my life was different at the time...

Kind of like when I look back on some of the friendships I had in high school. They were new, exciting friendships at the time and my friends seemed so witty, hilarious, and wonderful...now some of those same friends seem kind of stupid, dull, and childish. Nothing changed about those friends and they aren't actually stupid, dull, OR childish...my own personal need, perspective, and station in life changed - that's all.

So for me, there's no reason for me to formally or informally leave ageless...just like there is no reason for me to tell my old high school buddies that I can NEVER talk to them again. I spend time on ageless as is useful/desired by me, based on my own mood at the time...just like I hang out with old friends based on how useful/desired it is by me based on my mood. Sometimes I spend hours looking at what's going on here on Ageless, other times I go weeks with out really looking at anything...no biggie.

Well, here comes ms. crankypants again.

A couple of things I have seen around here tend to surface repeatedly, sort of like a whack-a-mole. Alot of it centers around (to me) three things

vym
failed relationships
personal comfort level

Since my relationship started with a vym (and...heavy sigh :rolleyes:...that label tends to keep going up) AND it is a large gap, we have had a significant amount of mud slung in our direction.

I will start with the *personal comfort level* issue. So, you don't want to have a gap larger than 10, 12, 16, whaterver amount. Fine, your choice. If the fact that MY gap of 26 years is "disgusting" "abnormal" "creepy" "morally repugnant".....doesn't mean you necessarily have to post about it constantly. Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to tell you that where do you get off telling me *I* am disgusting? That my relationship makes you sick? ect, ect? I don't rub your nose in it, you don't see it, so why the big rant everytime a large gap is mentioned? Shall I tell you that you are a small-minded, paranoid fat-head? I am entitled to my opinion, aren't I? But if what I said is rude, how about all the the anti- claptrap? Rude is rude, but it is amazing how rude people feel they can be in "only giving my personal opinion" when it doesn't meet the type of relationship that they would be in. You aren't comfortable with that type of relationship...well...DON"T GET IN ONE.


Failed relationships....what blew up in one doesn't "always" blow up in another. Yes, it hurts terribly when things go south, especially when you had to buck convention. But it doesn't mean you should come and preach the gospel of "as it was with me, so shall it be with you". If you see a post that has the same red flags that you ignored, then fine, tell your story. But don't say that you are doing it for their own good when you dump all over a newbie's relationship that doesn't have those flags just because the partner is the same age that yours was. My marriage to an om died a slow, agonizing death. No matter how many times I told him what was bothering me, what was wrong, and finally WHY I was divorcing him, it was still "why are you doing this to me?" Telling the kids that I was being cruel and divorcing him for "no reason at all". I can go on...but I will not go on and on about the so called evils of a relationship with an om because it was MY relationship that failed, not someone elses. I can tell someone that if he was a hard-drinking, lost weekend with the boys type of guy....be worried...very worried. For all I know, some guy might give it up for his yw...maybe yes, maybe no. I don't have a crystal ball. I don't use my failed marriage to dump on some yw/om just because I can.

Then the ultimate hot button VYM. It used to be that if you showed up here you were practically run off, cradle-snatching pervert that you were. But a few stuck around, and a few fingerpointers left, and an uneasy truce with frequent flare-ups remained. That is until a few women got fed up and said, repeatedly, that our relationships are legal, working, and quit trying to tell up otherwise. Quit upping the age of what a vym is....first it stated at 18-20 (the non drinking ages) then 18-21, now 18-25 (damn, one more year to go) and I have heard rumblings of "don't trust them if they are under 30". So what is a ym? Just a guy that is younger than the woman, as long as he is over 30? or at least over 27? or what? No woman with a guy in the vym catagory is going to tell you that it is all roses. Lots of thorns on those roses! It is not easy, it is not for everyone, it is not going to get much respect...BUT they can work. So quit with the "you are doomed to fail" crapola. And don't try the "it is only my opinion" because the biggest naysayers state it like it is fact and the try to find anything possible to prove it. Your relationship with a vym tanks: that is your fact, it is not mine.

Oh, and LTR bar...exactly what is that magic number please? We have been together 6 years. So what is the starting number for long-term? 10 years? When we reach that it will be moved up again, because since he was a vym, and "everybody knows" that he will change and dump me, that we can't possibley be long-term so if we make it to that...move it up more? If he was 34 to my 52 would we get woo-hoo's and hooray for you as a successful couple?

My take on what is going on here....again....as usual.... to be repeated later with a new crop of frequent posters.

oy...bed time

Hmmm... Ms. Crankypants. LOL I liked that post.

So...the question is...whats going on with Ageless??? I can tell you...!!!

Ageless is waiting on Amina's baby...and commiserating with Amina because she is over 41 weeks pregnant, and supporting her the best we know how.

Ageless is supporting a woman who made some poor choices recently and who feels very bad about herself, someone we didn't know until just a few days ago, and watching the thread develop now she has made some positive steps and is just beginning to feel a bit better.

Ageless is thinking about Yellowrose and her family, and sending prayers for her daughter and grandchildren, and about an upcoming court date.

Ageless is welcoming back several members who had been gone for a while, and celebrating that they are posting again! Woot!!!

Ageless is mourning the death of Dan Fogelberg, who wrote and performed some amazing music and will be dearly missed, and recommending that you see The Notebook if you haven't already done so.

Ageless is listening to Inahnia's story of her "bad kitty", and offering suggestions so she might be able to keep her cat without suffering any further damage to her house!

Ageless has a lot more going on than losing a few members in the past week....even though we miss them an awful lot.

Ageless is about people coming together and listening to each other, supporting each other and even debating each other...and sharing bits of our lives with each other. It's about being there to celebrate with one another when things are happy and wonderful, and being there to offer advice or just be a shoulder to lean on when things are not so wonderful.

And yeah, most the members here are in an age-gap relationship, have been in an age-gap relationship or are looking for an age-gap relationship, but then the members are sooo much more than that. We have members from all different areas of the world...members who are real estate agents, and doctors, and stay-home moms and lawyers and students and the list goes on and on. And somehow, with all our vast differences, we all come together on this website and communicate, and touch each other's lives, even if just in a small way....and I think this is GOOD.

So...what's going on with Ageless?? Ageless is going...man, that sucked!!!...but it's a new day and things are getting better, as they always do...just like they do in real life.

I think that the fact that this thread is seven pages long with so many different posters is a very positive sign. Had hardly anyone responded, or seven pages between two or three people been posted, I think that that would have been a worse sign.

Ageless is still here and is still, well, ageless!

Daniel

I cannot justify NOT allowing someone to post about their failed relationship. If I limit threads only to those where we talk about successes, then it's not really fair to anyone if we ignore those that failed.

I agree completely that one's personal experience does not constitute a declaration that ALL relationships with YM, VYM (take your pick about whatever type of relationship that happens here), and that one should not make generalized statements about those kinds of relationships. However, if we allow people to post about the "good" stuff, then how can we NOT allow them to post about the "bad" stuff as well.

However, there's a huge difference in posting about your own personal experience in a failed relationship (which should be allowed) and someone like that Lilywhateverhernamewas that came here and body-slammed all OW/YM AGRs (that shouldn't be allowed on an AGR support site).

Everyone needs to really think about what Rozie said:

Getting back to the point of the thread (i.e. what;s happening at Ageless), one of the problems here is that we state our opinions as though they are fact. We all do that, but honestly, just because one person has a miserable outcome with a much younger man doesn't mean that everyone will. What we do here is to share our stories, but the truth is, our stories are anecdotal...this goes for successes as well as failures. We share because there is the sense of reassurance in knowing that others are experiencing similar things. To that end, I think all points of view should be welcome. They are exactly that, points of view, not fact. Once I got this through my fat head, I took much less offense when people said things I didn't want to hear.

And on that note, that's the end of my soapbox about the "anti-VYM" issue here.

Well, I think the Long-Term Relationship Forum being a complete failure speaks for itself.

Can you explain how on earth this proves anything? There could be any number of reasons for that section not being so busy!

Again, I'm not saying to anyone, "Don't do this!" but I'm saying, "Had I known what would happen to me years down the road, would I have chosen a different path, certainly!" Now, some people might say, "Well, it failed but it was worth the pain." Okay, that's another perspective. I guess mine is, "The younger they are, the more problems you're going to have."

You might not literally be saying "don't do this" but all your 'advice' leads women to believe that it will absolutely not work. Are you seriously telling me that you aren't giving that impression here:

So the ow is the first opportunity, but eventually, they grow into their own and dump her. Sorry to say, seen it here a hundred times

Because if that's not what you mean, then you need to change the wording!

How old are you, Rob? Just for reference.

I'm not quite sure what that has to do with anything? My age is on my profile, I've hardly hidden it away! For reference? By this, do you really mean "so I can decide whether you're old enough for your opinion to be worthwhile"? Because it wouldn't be the first time I've had someone say "you may think that now, but..." and it's incredibly patronising! Do you see me asking the age of women "for reference"?

Again, I'm not saying "Don't have a relationship with a vym" I'm saying, "It's a hard road...be prepared." I think it's our responsibility, ESPECIALLY mine, after being a member here since 2000 (although my avatar says differently) to be completely honest about what happened in my relationship. We are all so clouded in our judgement the first few years, the honeymoon years, we'll overlook anything (some of us will, not all) to rationalize this. Then, when the trouble (usually financial) starts, we act like we're totally surprised by it all. Well, let's look at the facts...men under 21 don't have much work experience. Men in college don't graduate much before 22, and then have to build a working career...of course there's a financial burden!

I had 3 years work experience at 21. Donna got sent a tax thing that showed her earnings since she was 18, and at 22 I was on a higher wage than she has ever been, up until recently. I had friends who were on their way to owning their own business, within the next couple of years, at that age. Looking at the age rather than the situation you are being presented with (and by that I mean the individuals involved) does not take account of the fact people are not all the same and cannot just be boxed into easy to use categories.

And I might be a bit of a burden right now because I'm still looking for work, but when Donna's retired and I'm still going... I think it'll be worth it for her.

Then there's the issue of partying. I have to sigh when I hear from some ow "My ym doesn't like to party!" Yeah, is he OF AGE??? Because until they're OF AGE, they really don't care that much about it. THEY AREN'T ALLOWED INTO BARS! I wouldn't care much about a place I wasn't allowed into.

lol. First of all, lots of people get into bars when they are underage. And if they don't, then it's common for them to be drinking at home or a friends house. Second, this website does not only feature people from the US. The legal drinking age is 18 in the UK, and 16 in Germany (as far as I'm aware).

And, yes, some people just don't like to party. Not everyone HAS to have that party stage. Just because you or I might have wanted that, doesn't make it so for everyone else. I HAVE met these people, they DO exist!

Sorry to say, seen it here a hundred times

List them then. We've been through this before and a whole bunch of relationships with VYM that are STILL going after years and years was listed.

Again, how many relationships fail, full stop? It's going to be a high number, isn't it? So why is it automatically such a big deal when it's VYM?

I certainly hope that applauding two posts won't diminish it for either poster, but it's not MY fault that the two of you wrote such awesome posts one right after the other!

Excellent post, LadyinWaiting. Excellent. :1appl:

Excellent post, Jo! Excellent! :1appl:

In the end, we have a choice in every area of our lives:
- Focus on what's good or focus on what's bad.
- Refuse to accept people as they are and continue to be shocked/upset/disappointed/hurt/angry; or accept people as they are, and then decide how much we are going to allow them to affect us.

Well, I think the Long-Term Relationship Forum being a complete failure speaks for itself.

Considering I would consider myself long term AND I started with a vym, I think I can answer this.

We are long term because we are WORKING so we don't have much to complain about and there really isn't anything to talk about there that I wouldn't talk about to the general member public.

So I never think to post specifically there - although I did the other day.

So it may not be that LTRs don't exist so much that we just don't have anything to complain about! :no:


Do those count as VYM relationships? One is a 10 year gap and the other a 9 year gap.

I'm sure they'll both be married for life.

"VYM" doesn't mean the size of the gap, it's the specific age of the man. They seem to be considered "Very Young" if they are in the late teens or early twenties. But if the woman is much older, the VYM could be anyone under 30, as well.

So, whether someone is considered a "VYM" depends on the age of the man AND the age of the woman.

For example, I would consider VYM to be guys under 21 AND any guy without kids who may still want them. They are the same thing, IMO.

The older I get, the larger that VYM catagory seems to get, LOL. :p

But I could see why a 60 year old grandmother may consider a 29 year old man without kids as a "VYM" as well. Whereas a 39 year old woman may not think that is young at all.

So, ladies with what THEY consider VYM age 18-20 or whatever shouldn't be offended by a much older woman considering the VYM catagory older - for THEM it is. So I think it's personal and the age of BOTH people should be considered as "source."


Oh, and LTR bar...exactly what is that magic number please? We have been together 6 years. So what is the starting number for long-term? 10 years? When we reach that it will be moved up again, because since he was a vym, and "everybody knows" that he will change and dump me, that we can't possibley be long-term so if we make it to that...move it up more? If he was 34 to my 52 would we get woo-hoo's and hooray for you as a successful couple?

Again, that is personal, but I always considered LTR to be anyone who has passed beyond "dating" and are in a committed, live-in situation (married or not) and are dealing with those issues.

People in online relationships for a year just don't fit, for me, because you aren't dealing with living situations and blended families and in-laws, etc. The online relationships (long-term or not) already have the LDR section for them. They deal with issues that we marrieds/live-in don't now about.

I think the area should be LTR for "Living Together" and not "Long Term." That might clear things up.

I was thinking the other day, that I'd write something I'd observed. It occured to me that this site, it is just the tip of the iceberg in age difference relationships. I often forget my brother lives with a woman at least 10 years older, we don't know her age and she never volunteers it, but a guess is ten years maybe more. I asked my brother if it made any difference, because I really like a guy who is 12 years younger, and he said not at all, it's just if you get on... And they do, having been together for at least ten years now... she jokes about him being her toyboy - he is 44! Then yesterday, I met a daughter's friend, who has two kids, and we were chatting and it just came into the conversation that her hubby is ten years younger and the only time it makes any difference is when they talk about music or maybe TV shows. So for anyone interested in the maths - they were 29 and 19 when they met and had children when they'd been together for seven years, so she was 36. And then I have friend of a friend who has a thirty two year age gap - she is 64 and he is 32 and they have been together for ten years or so now and own a house together. I admit at first hearing about it, before I met them, I thought wow, how is that going to work; and then I met them and she was lovely and warm and he was mature and solid. The thing is they fit together like a glove. You don't even notice the gap, they kind of meet in the middle. I'm sure then AL is the tip of the iceberg and there are loads more people out there living lives with their SOs who just happen to have come into the world a few year's later.

I do it myself, think how can things be because someone is younger... but actually, I think it's really easy to sabotage things before they even begin by not giving it a chance. I'm not getting involved in the vym debate. Each to his own, and I honestly think what seasons people isn't just chronological age, it is life experience, world view, so many things...

Anyway, this is just a random post but really, a young man is a man, and if he was with a woman his age, he wouldn't be called a young man, he'd just be a man... All this has been said before, but well, I was just musing aloud.

M

I was thinking the other day, that I'd write something I'd observed. It occured to me that this site, it is just the tip of the iceberg in age difference relationships. I often forget my brother lives with a woman at least 10 years older, we don't know her age and she never volunteers it, but a guess is ten years maybe more. I asked my brother if it made any difference, because I really like a guy who is 12 years younger, and he said not at all, it's just if you get on... And they do, having been together for at least ten years now... she jokes about him being her toyboy - he is 44! Then yesterday, I met a daughter's friend, who has two kids, and we were chatting and it just came into the conversation that her hubby is ten years younger and the only time it makes any difference is when they talk about music or maybe TV shows. So for anyone interested in the maths - they were 29 and 19 when they met and had children when they'd been together for seven years, so she was 36. And then I have friend of a friend who has a thirty two year age gap - she is 64 and he is 32 and they have been together for ten years or so now and own a house together. I admit at first hearing about it, before I met them, I thought wow, how is that going to work; and then I met them and she was lovely and warm and he was mature and solid. The thing is they fit together like a glove. You don't even notice the gap, they kind of meet in the middle. I'm sure then AL is the tip of the iceberg and there are loads more people out there living lives with their SOs who just happen to have come into the world a few year's later.

I do it myself, think how can things be because someone is younger... but actually, I think it's really easy to sabotage things before they even begin by not giving it a chance. I'm not getting involved in the vym debate. Each to his own, and I honestly think what seasons people isn't just chronological age, it is life experience, world view, so many things...

Anyway, this is just a random post but really, a young man is a man, and if he was with a woman his age, he wouldn't be called a young man, he'd just be a man... All this has been said before, but well, I was just musing aloud.

M

wonderful post!!!!!!! that made my day

I don't know if this qualifies as a VYM age-gap relationship, or not, but one of my man friends at work is married to a woman 10 years older than him. They've been married 20 years. He's in his early 60s and she's in her early 70s.

One of my male first cousins married an OW when he was 20 and she was 29 at the time they got married. They've been married for 10 years now.

Do those count as VYM relationships? One is a 10 year gap and the other a 9 year gap.

I'm sure they'll both be married for life.

A very young man relationship is when a ym is 18 to about 25 or so, and the woman in question is at least 15 years older than he. In other words he's just entering adulthood and she's into it and into middle age.

I am not here to destroy anyone's dream! I am here to help people who have reached the bottom because they really don't know where to turn, after an age gap breakup. You may not realize this, but age gap breakups are harder than most. Age gap relationships are harder than most. It's almost like being gay, as the couple is in a situation where they are discriminated against by their society!

Chatterbox, it's not that I do not support age gap'ers, it's that I've seen too many of a certain type of age gap fail quickly, in part because either partner is not honest. So many see it as hook up sex. When one partner wants love and the other wants hook up sex, and they don't see each others positions, well that's a recipe for hurt feelings! Also, as mentioned earlier, when someone is young and finding themselves, the older person is sitting around waiting on things to gel that may or may not satisfactorily.

Just my .02 cents. Did I take away anything from you by my opinion? I doubt it!

Ali

Chatterbox, it's not that I do not support age gap'ers, it's that I've seen too many of a certain type of age gap fail quickly, in part because either partner is not honest. So many see it as hook up sex. When one partner wants love and the other wants hook up sex, and they don't see each others positions, well that's a recipe for hurt feelings! Also, as mentioned earlier, when someone is young and finding themselves, the older person is sitting around waiting on things to gel that may or may not satisfactorily.

Just my .02 cents. Did I take away anything from you by my opinion? I doubt it!

Ali

Well, you've got me between a rock and a hard place .... I actually wasn't talking about you ... unless you feel that the experiences you have had or seen make you reluctant or unable to believe that two people, of whatever ages you're focusing on, can have a real, loving, and lasting relationship.

But what I honestly don't get is that the interaction you describe can happen to any two people of any ages, why, if you do, focus on one subgroup of agegap relationships? Or why, if you do, cast aspersions on all agegap relationships? Or, if you do, all relationships? It's a narrow view that serves no good purpose, IMO. It's like women who say, "All men are pigs." or men who say, "All women are *******." What's the point? To, if you are lonely or unhappy, keep yourself and others who are lonely and unhappy, lonely and unhappy? To convince others that they don't have a chance at being happy?

You are making things bigger than people have intended them, in most cases that I can recall, and in my case specifically. That's not them, that's your perception and maybe reflects your own biases?

I do think people can and do fall in love, every day. My experiences have repeatedly shown me a few things: love without a lot of face time is just hopes and wishes waiting to be fulfilled, because of what love is: an action where two people share their lives and hopes and help each other reach their best truest selves, among other things. You do realize that love and longing are not the same thing??? I wish everyone did! Then when a guy starts putting up red flags, the woman would say: "Sorry fella, you aren't for me!" Also, VYM are in an experimenting phase of their lives, and many of their relationships are shorter-termed and do not lead to marriage. The way I see it, many VYM and many OW are playing on different ball fields entirely. That's why people get hurt. If you have a long term VYM/OW relationship, congratulations! You are exceptional! Age gaps are harder, and they are more work. And they need more communication.

I think it's reached the point where we are beating a dead horse. When you have a good working age gap, you won't be afraid to read of someone else's opinions/failures/experiences because you will be up and dealing with your own issues. I'm here for those who feel messed up by it all, and I've stayed to see that they are cared for too.

Ali

Hmmm... Ms. Crankypants. LOL I liked that post.

So...the question is...whats going on with Ageless??? I can tell you...!!!

Ageless is waiting on Amina's baby...and commiserating with Amina because she is over 41 weeks pregnant, and supporting her the best we know how.

Ageless is supporting a woman who made some poor choices recently and who feels very bad about herself, someone we didn't know until just a few days ago, and watching the thread develop now she has made some positive steps and is just beginning to feel a bit better.

Ageless is thinking about Yellowrose and her family, and sending prayers for her daughter and grandchildren, and about an upcoming court date.

Ageless is welcoming back several members who had been gone for a while, and celebrating that they are posting again! Woot!!!

Ageless is mourning the death of Dan Fogelberg, who wrote and performed some amazing music and will be dearly missed, and recommending that you see The Notebook if you haven't already done so.

Ageless is listening to Inahnia's story of her "bad kitty", and offering suggestions so she might be able to keep her cat without suffering any further damage to her house!

Ageless has a lot more going on than losing a few members in the past week....even though we miss them an awful lot.

Ageless is about people coming together and listening to each other, supporting each other and even debating each other...and sharing bits of our lives with each other. It's about being there to celebrate with one another when things are happy and wonderful, and being there to offer advice or just be a shoulder to lean on when things are not so wonderful.

And yeah, most the members here are in an age-gap relationship, have been in an age-gap relationship or are looking for an age-gap relationship, but then the members are sooo much more than that. We have members from all different areas of the world...members who are real estate agents, and doctors, and stay-home moms and lawyers and students and the list goes on and on. And somehow, with all our vast differences, we all come together on this website and communicate, and touch each other's lives, even if just in a small way....and I think this is GOOD.

So...what's going on with Ageless?? Ageless is going...man, that sucked!!!...but it's a new day and things are getting better, as they always do...just like they do in real life.

Well heck...no one could have said it better.

And, to be quite honest it has been wonderful for me to share my pregnancy experiences, concerns, and excitement with my friends here. I don't post much about my private life (there's not much to post, I'm happily married and that's about it)...so when something very exciting happens - like my marriage, or me moving out of the country, or me having a baby - I am always very happy to share it with my friends (and enemies) here at AL. Folks like Jo, Kat (all of the Kats), and many others have known me for YEARS now...they've put up with all my stages and phases and in the end I think as a group we've always been truly happy when something great happens to any of us and truly sad when someone is going through a rough time.

Whether it has slumps or low points is not that important, what matters to me is the fact that when needed, Ageless has always risen to the occasion.

Well, I'm still here actually and I'm in a very good place. I am extremely happy with my life and anyone who doesn't feel good hearing this about me can go hang themselves. Or complain about it loudly on the boards or in the chat room or via PM. Doesn't matter to me.

My most recent experience reminds me of some very wise words a farm wife once told me:

"Those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."

I think we'd all do well to remember those words. They apply in real life and online. At least for me, they do.

Response to legallyblonde's post: Okay, I'm making things bigger, my biases are showing, if I ever have what passes your standards for a good agegap relationship then I can talk, you hope I know the difference between love and longing, we're beating a dead horse, and there's no sense in continuing the discussion after you say what you want to say! (The last one was poking fun! :p )

BUT if you think that telling people to love with one eye open for heartbreak that will more than likely come serves any purpose, I don't agree. As a matter of fact, it is the best way to assure that they'll experience the heartbreak you urged them to anticipate and end up alone and unhappy. One either loves with an open heart and risks heartache, or one does not really love at all.

There. Now, we're done. ;)

Not until I say that you are showing all of us that the whole issue of someone coming on the board and not feeling the same way you do bothers you in some way. Why? I've taken great pains to make sure that those who read my posts know that these are my experiences and opinions!

Ali

I am extremely happy with my life and anyone who doesn't feel good hearing this about me can go hang themselves.

Truer words of happiness have never been uttered.

My most recent experience reminds me of some very wise words a farm wife once told me:

"Those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."

I think we'd all do well to remember those words. They apply in real life and online. At least for me, they do.

Wise words indeed.

Daniel

Not until I say that you are showing all of us that the whole issue of someone coming on the board and not feeling the same way you do bothers you in some way.
Ali

I don't agree with this statment.

I've taken great pains to make sure that those who read my posts know that these are my experiences and opinions!

I believe you.

I hope you all won't mind a little input from the "other side" on this. :bgrin2:

I read through this entire thread (as I like to do when they get long like this, because they tend to contain some interesting discussions). First of all, I want to congratulate everyone on their happy times. It's always nice to hear the good stuff. PLEASE keep it coming. :)

Secondly, talking from my own personal perspective...sometimes it just becomes way too hard to deal with forums like this, and that's when I take breaks. I really do like having this forum to discuss/vent/share great times, but as with anything when you deal with lots of people, sometimes the personalities get in the way, or other aspects of life take precedence. And, when the same crud comes up over and over again, it's just tiring.

I personally love having this forum for times when I just feel like sharing. And, when I don't? I just don't come on.

I really do hope that those who are in the "boring, happy relationships" post a bit more. Not about "taking the garbage out", per se, but just thoughts/feelings, what have you. I'm on the opposite side of the spectrum from you guys, but I have a feeling that many people would benefit from hearing the "good stuff" on your end more often.

I honestly think that more "new people" would stick around if there were some sort of feeling that these things DO work out sometimes.

Anyway, just my two cents, from the "other side".

I don't agree with this statment.


I actually couldn't agree more with that statement. I have noticed that some people have a big problem with others having a different opinion than they do. If one is brave enough to disagree with said people they will face mean spirited sarcasm, rolling eyes, attacks on their intelligence, etc. They leave the one who "dared" to disagree with them feeling like their opinion is the ONLY opinion and like anyone who is not on the same page is of intellectual or moral inferiority. Of course that adds to part of their "charm" - just like it was part of my "charm" back when I acted like that on a regular basis (hopefully now it's not as regular) and had a fan base of people who loved to watch me emotionally slaughter those who went against my views.

I think none of us like being disagreed with, but some of us take it much more personally than others. When I see that quality rear its ugly head in others and in myself I always feel an over-whelming sense of "wow, that person (or myself) is really insecure!"...

Wow, long indeed.

OK so I happen to agree with Kristin that for me personally long term is relative to live together, only because you dont really know a person until you live with them and get to know all of those little personal habits that can make or break a relationship. I dont count online relationships because again there is no real time invested and by real time I mean everyday face to face time.

Ive been with Clint going on 2 years I have known him just a tiny bit longer than that but I still dont count it long term. We have lived together for over a year and I still dont call it long term. To me long term is past the 5 year honeymoon phase, and probably going into 7,8, 9 years. After that amount of time you have worked out the kinks in the relationship and the rose color glasses come off. Most marriage and relationships dont make it past the 7 year mark. I guess thats why they have books about the whole 7 year mark when it comes to relationships.

Going to be terribly honest here.

As for the VYM thing. I am in a relationship and engaged to a VYM but even though I am in a VYMR I still have moments when I have trouble accepting relationships where the older partner made contact with the VYP before they turned 18. Man, thats a tough one for me; part of it is because I am a mom of a teen age boy, and I feel the same amount of protective feelings about him that I would if an older man went after my teen daughter if she was 16 but honestly I feel that this woman dominated board is very sexist when it comes to how they see this. I honestly feel if a man was on this board and said that they started a friendship that turned romantic later on with a 15, 16 , 17 year old girl the reaction would be different but if it is a boy of that age the women for the most part seem to be ok with it, and that scares me, very much so.

I monitor my childrens emails, and website forums it never ever crossed my mind to monitor their online games. I think most parents of teenagers would be surprised to be told to monitor that too, you have a tendency to think of games as a "safe" place for your kids. Theyre playing a game, it doesnt cross parents minds that there are times when people talk to each other and connect, I think for many parents playing video games brings to mind arcade days and because of many different posts which show that relationships did start while the person was a minor, I sat down and talked to my son and short of confiscating his games I have let him know that he is only to talk in group play with his real life friends anything else and his games would be banned atleast until he is 18 after that he is considered an adult and I have no problem with what he does barring drinking. Thats two short years away and he understands that.

Im also shocked and saddened when I read older partners say that they completely disregard the younger partners relationship with their parents. WHile I understand that there can be circumstance where the parents really are just completely illogical and uncompromising in their outlook on the relationship, I think some are simply a natural reaction to a very different and unwelcomed partner for their child. WHen I see an older partner, say that they dont care what their younger partners parent want or think or if they are hurting that to me is a red flag, but for the younger partner and I would tell that younger partner to run away as fast as you can. Its true everyone has to grow up but just because theyre away from their parents doesnt mean that theyre grown and it doesnt mean that they dont need their parents, if theyre good parents. There will always be a bond and anyones who says that they dont have a bond with their parents usually didnt have a good relationship with them to begin with and I think its a pity that someone wouldnt value the parent/child relationship enough to respect it.

I guess in a perfect world things would take time, and people would get to know each other before they decide that it is all or nothing. Its all very dramatic and romantic and very romeo and juliet but really, reading it all, the practical side of me is very disgruntled with it all and wants people to snap out of it and face reality...but I dont say that...I usually just read and wait for the inevitable to happen and my heart is sadden for both people and their hurt. For me, its like watching a train wreck that you knew was going to happen but that you couldnt stop and really they dont want to be stopped do they? because the fantasy of it all, the complete addictiveness of having a forbidden love, the whole romantized concept of waiting for that partner to be free to be with you, is just too much to give up. Its some heady stuff.


I also understand that this is an international board and that the legal age varies depending on what country that person is from so that makes it doubly hard.

But for the women who are in VYM relationships and their partners are over the legal age when the relationship started. Again, I would have to say, it all depends on YOUR PARTNER. If your partner is mature and youre not sitting there excusing his behavior, poor choices, etc etc then youre great but if youre sitting there excusing his poor choices; whether he is not helping out at home and leaving a trail of laundry from one room to the next, to spending money on video games instead of paying bills first, or he has a "fast temper" that youre waiting for him to grow out of...well good luck because to me those would be signs of a very chancy relationship and I wonder how many people out their with dead relationships just ignored some signs because they were "So" in love?

I guess the practical and cynical side of me has this motto:

Love isnt an excuse to stop thinking and shame on you if you do.

Not very supportive I know, which is why I said previously...I just read and wait.

VYM? Damn it! All failed relationships suck. I don't see the difference. I actually think that as OW we are probably more prepared for it ending rather than it lasting. No fairy tales at my age!

I have met a wonderful man & regardless of his age we will either work it out or not. My heart will hurt when/if it ends but I will be a better woman for having felt such a passionate love.

Can I say this about my lousy cheating x husband? NO!

Like Kristin said, it takes work! And regardless of age PEOPLE change.

How many 30 something year old men suddenly decide they don't want children or want a different (man) or woman? Plenty & marriages/relationships end because of it.

My 23 year old doesn't party...it's not his thing. Will he become a partier? Maybe, but that would be no different than 90% of the recently divorced people I know who become big partiers upon being "free".

VYM is a non-issue. Different? Sure, to anyone who doesn't accept it.

My man has blue eyes; first man that I have dated with blue eyes. All the others had green eyes & they all broke my heart...so if I were to take the advice of anti-vym to that level I suppose I should NEVER EVER date a man with green eyes again!

What's going on with AL? Too many folks looking for "SUPPORT" and getting "BASHED" instead. I also believe that we come here because we "feel" different & want acceptance. If we do get it we feel great, but then we don't get that same acceptance on nonrelationship threads & we feel unaccepted. Double edged sword.

JUST MY OPIONION.

Great post, lovaholic. You're doing such a great job that I don't feel guilty for taking a break! :)

VYM? Damn it! All failed relationships suck.

zackly.

Like Kristin said, it takes work! And regardless of age PEOPLE change.

zackly. i've said this for years.

What's going on with AL? Too many folks looking for "SUPPORT" and getting "BASHED" instead.

zackly.

Well, here comes ms. crankypants again.

A couple of things I have seen around here tend to surface repeatedly, sort of like a whack-a-mole. Alot of it centers around (to me) three things

vym
failed relationships
personal comfort level

Since my relationship started with a vym (and...heavy sigh :rolleyes:...that label tends to keep going up) AND it is a large gap, we have had a significant amount of mud slung in our direction.

I will start with the *personal comfort level* issue. So, you don't want to have a gap larger than 10, 12, 16, whaterver amount. Fine, your choice. If the fact that MY gap of 26 years is "disgusting" "abnormal" "creepy" "morally repugnant".....doesn't mean you necessarily have to post about it constantly. Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to tell you that where do you get off telling me *I* am disgusting? That my relationship makes you sick? ect, ect? I don't rub your nose in it, you don't see it, so why the big rant everytime a large gap is mentioned? Shall I tell you that you are a small-minded, paranoid fat-head? I am entitled to my opinion, aren't I? But if what I said is rude, how about all the the anti- claptrap? Rude is rude, but it is amazing how rude people feel they can be in "only giving my personal opinion" when it doesn't meet the type of relationship that they would be in. You aren't comfortable with that type of relationship...well...DON"T GET IN ONE.


Failed relationships....what blew up in one doesn't "always" blow up in another. Yes, it hurts terribly when things go south, especially when you had to buck convention. But it doesn't mean you should come and preach the gospel of "as it was with me, so shall it be with you". If you see a post that has the same red flags that you ignored, then fine, tell your story. But don't say that you are doing it for their own good when you dump all over a newbie's relationship that doesn't have those flags just because the partner is the same age that yours was. My marriage to an om died a slow, agonizing death. No matter how many times I told him what was bothering me, what was wrong, and finally WHY I was divorcing him, it was still "why are you doing this to me?" Telling the kids that I was being cruel and divorcing him for "no reason at all". I can go on...but I will not go on and on about the so called evils of a relationship with an om because it was MY relationship that failed, not someone elses. I can tell someone that if he was a hard-drinking, lost weekend with the boys type of guy....be worried...very worried. For all I know, some guy might give it up for his yw...maybe yes, maybe no. I don't have a crystal ball. I don't use my failed marriage to dump on some yw/om just because I can.

Then the ultimate hot button VYM. It used to be that if you showed up here you were practically run off, cradle-snatching pervert that you were. But a few stuck around, and a few fingerpointers left, and an uneasy truce with frequent flare-ups remained. That is until a few women got fed up and said, repeatedly, that our relationships are legal, working, and quit trying to tell up otherwise. Quit upping the age of what a vym is....first it stated at 18-20 (the non drinking ages) then 18-21, now 18-25 (damn, one more year to go) and I have heard rumblings of "don't trust them if they are under 30". So what is a ym? Just a guy that is younger than the woman, as long as he is over 30? or at least over 27? or what? No woman with a guy in the vym catagory is going to tell you that it is all roses. Lots of thorns on those roses! It is not easy, it is not for everyone, it is not going to get much respect...BUT they can work. So quit with the "you are doomed to fail" crapola. And don't try the "it is only my opinion" because the biggest naysayers state it like it is fact and the try to find anything possible to prove it. Your relationship with a vym tanks: that is your fact, it is not mine.

Oh, and LTR bar...exactly what is that magic number please? We have been together 6 years. So what is the starting number for long-term? 10 years? When we reach that it will be moved up again, because since he was a vym, and "everybody knows" that he will change and dump me, that we can't possibley be long-term so if we make it to that...move it up more? If he was 34 to my 52 would we get woo-hoo's and hooray for you as a successful couple?

My take on what is going on here....again....as usual.... to be repeated later with a new crop of frequent posters.

oy...bed time

:1appl: well said, thank you.

When a thread that has nothing to do with VYM can always find a way to become about VYM then something's wrong.

What's g