You know it's a crappy holiday season...

when your own brother pulls a knife on you...

My mother and I have pretty much had it. I called the cops...but I didn't press chargers for her.

Since last night he was real adamant about getting his cell phone and car keys but she would not budge. He grew increasingly violent into the next day when she said she would not give it. He searched all over her room making a huge mess. So he decides to pull a knife on me and get mine. Being shocked he would be capable of doing something like that I gave them to him and called our mother and the police.

Personally I wanted to press charges on him for doing something like that but I decided against it for the sake of my mother. A few hours later he comes back home she talked to him but he just yells and rants then she tells him to apologize to me. But I said "No, that was it. I want nothing to do with him. I didn't know he was capable of anything like this. Next time he as much as throws a punch I'm pressing charges"

He left after my saying that and she started bursting into sobs. I was more angry then anything. I tried to explain to her "Look, I'm sorry, I love you but I can't forgive something like that. I'm an honest person and can't live some sort of lie."

I'm pretty fed up with him. He's been nothing but trouble for the past year. He's become increasingly aggressive, violent, and verbally lashes out if you say anything to defy him. Is he doing drugs? I'm sure he is. Is he hanging out with the wrong crow? Of course. His he having problems personally? I don't doubt it. But what can you do? My mother works double shifts left and right to make ends meet. I'm busy with music gigs, opera, teaching, etc. I don't have time either. Ultimately he's almost adult age and aware of right and wrong choices. So far all of them being wrong.

My mother is devastated. I tried to sit with her and comfort her. Tearfully she says, "Why did this have to happen now? It's Christmas time." How are you suppose to respond to that.

Anyway, I just don't know what to do with him. The police weren't very helpful about suggesting programs that could help him. They just said I could either press charges and have him sent to jail or I could not.

Some Christmas huh?

Anyone know of programs to deal with violent teenagers that have problems?

Next time..and hopefully there is not a next time, but if there is, you should definitely press charges. He needs help, and the next time it could be worse..he could hurt your or your Mom or someone else.

He obviously isn't in his right mind. I don't know if there are drugs involved here or what...

I know your Mom loves him. We all love our children, but she is putting herself at risk by allowing him to continue to live at home and do these crazy things.

I'm so sorry Mano...I really am. ((hugs))

i am so sorry to read this also....
i remember when he disappeared, and caused such heartache...now this.
he is doing drugs, he is in over his head... do either you or your mother have employee assistant programs? it may be a start...also just start making a lot of calls to agencies, health lines, brain storm...somewhere there has to be some help out there...he is still a minor... family doctor?
do not give up on him.....

Wish I had some suggestions, but all I can offer is sympathy. :( I can't believe how aggressive he is toward his own immediate family. His disappearing act to Oregon was itself inexcusable. Vanishing while San Diego was burning up and not even calling to say he was on the road but OK, I can't believe that! When you put up the thread about his disappearing, I was worried that your brother might have been killed in the fires. I didn't want to put that up on the thread and air it, but doubtless you and your mother were scared SICK about that very idea.

After that he should have been contrite enough to be a model son and brother--but I guess not! >:(

He definitely sounds like he is on drugs...some sort of amphetamine based drug...and it would fit with his increasing violent behaviour.

Hopefully there won't be a next time, but if there is...press charges...do not hesitate. He has to learn there are consequences to his behaviour. A court would also be able to force him into some sort of program.

I realize your mother still hopes for him to change...to go back to the way he was before all of this started. He may or may not change...he is young enough that there is still hope for him...but tough love is a definite option here. However, what you have found out is that by withholding privileges from him, he will do anything it takes to get his way including threatening his family with violence.

I am not sure what type of programs there are for him as I have never dealt with that type of situation. Contact Dr. Phil. He might know of programs in your area to contact. Or contact Social Services, the local mental health clinics..Al-Anon, etc

I'm so sorry you're going through this, mano. You are one of the nicest, kindest, sweetest, caring, most genuine people I know. I'm very blessed to have you as a friend. You've been there for me on many occasions. I'm very thankful for you and your friendship.

I feel awful for you and your mom. It would be a good idea for your mother to talk to a counselor. Right now you don't know exactly what's causing his problems. If they're emotional and he hasn't started using drugs, he may start using them to self-medicate. If he is using drugs, his behavior will continue to deteriorate. The violent episodes will escalate.

Please encourage your mom to call a psychologist or a psychiatrist. If she can get your brother to go, that would be very good. But, even if she can't, she should go herself

I'm concerned about your safety.

((((mano))))

Whoooo, boy! I'm sorry to hear things are going that way.

Everyone is right - mom needs to be careful and take care of herself, too!

I hope things go better for you!!

Mano, I'm very sorry to hear this, and I'm very concerned, I know your Mom is sad, but YOU'RE the one that he pulled a knife on - how sad is she going to be if he uses it next time? She has two sons

In addition to your safety, what if he pulls a knife on you again and YOU have to defend yourself and harm him?

I am very, very concerned for you. Please do not underestimate the damage he is capable of doing.

Mano, someone has to get through to you and your Mom the danger that you're in. Your brother wanted something, he pulled a knife and got what he wanted - what do you think he's going to do next time?

Perhaps if the two of you went to a few NarAnon Family meetings - you could convince her (and perhaps yourself) of how real the danger is and get some ideas of what to do. www.naranoncalifornia.org

I'll be thinking of you and hoping for the best for you and your family.

If he is not of legal age, is it possible that your mother would consider having him committed??? Going to court and having him placed somewhere for treatment??

I would be devastated also if my son did this...I can imagine how you all must feel...

If your local police have a public affairs officer, perhaps you and your mom could meet with him and he could suggest ways to keep you safe. The drugs are talking for your brother now and he will not be able to hear you- the only thing you can do is work on being safe.

God bless....keep us informed please.

It depends I think on which state you live in, but call your local magistrates office and see if you can do this. A knife pulling incident may be enough to have your brother involuntarily committed to a mental hospital. I think that would be my first choice. I am aware how hard this is, and none of the choices seem good. Both green warrants and jail/arrests leave him something on a record if he's an adult. But it's also your life. Suppose he got violent with your mom?

Ali

I'm sorry you and your mom are going through all this, Mano. :( I hope and pray things get better soon!

I'm not sure what is available in your state, but would be happy to check ... at my work, we run a program that is available state-wide, we have the contract for 10 counties, it is a free counseling program for kids up to age 17 and their family when there is ANY kind of family conflict. Anyone is eligible regardless of their income level (high or low), as long as they don't have an active CPS case or the youth has been adjudicated.

It's very effective. Over 90% report their situation improved after this short-term program. Though your brother might need something longer; but if there is something available in your area, it would be a good start.

You might also call any kind of local information & referal or resource number, or even a local United Way office might have information on some kind of program. Might even check into something like Job Corps. I will do some searching this weekend online and Monday when I get back to the office if you like.

Good luck.

(((((((((((Manooooooo)))))))))

Please look into your local United Way, also look on line. There are many programs to send your bro. Tell your Mom to do it now before he turns 18, otherwise your Mom will no longer have legal authority to send him any where.

He is definitely doing drugs, his behavior shows it. Please tell your mama to do TOUGH LOVE on him. There are several books on the subject, as well google it on line...

I wish you the best, praying for your family.

PS BTW if he acts up again, this is what you can do.... Call the cops, press charges, he will be taken away. Then, for him to get out of jail, prior to trail, someone will have to post bond, but once the trial date is up, you can tell the district attorney you will not go to testify and since you are the victim, without your testimony, the DAs will not be able to proceed. But then his arrest will be on file forever (unless a motion to expunge records is filed and granted) and it will hunt him in the future. On jobs and school applications, his records will come up, and an arrest is a record. But then you must protect yourself and your mother.*

*Disclaimer, this is not legal advice, please consult an attorney of your choice. Gosh it has been a long time since I wrote a disclaimer here! :D

when your own brother pulls a knife on you...

My mother and I have pretty much had it. I called the cops...but I didn't press chargers for her.

Since last night he was real adamant about getting his cell phone and car keys but she would not budge. He grew increasingly violent into the next day when she said she would not give it. He searched all over her room making a huge mess. So he decides to pull a knife on me and get mine. Being shocked he would be capable of doing something like that I gave them to him and called our mother and the police.

Personally I wanted to press charges on him for doing something like that but I decided against it for the sake of my mother. A few hours later he comes back home she talked to him but he just yells and rants then she tells him to apologize to me. But I said "No, that was it. I want nothing to do with him. I didn't know he was capable of anything like this. Next time he as much as throws a punch I'm pressing charges"

He left after my saying that and she started bursting into sobs. I was more angry then anything. I tried to explain to her "Look, I'm sorry, I love you but I can't forgive something like that. I'm an honest person and can't live some sort of lie."

I'm pretty fed up with him. He's been nothing but trouble for the past year. He's become increasingly aggressive, violent, and verbally lashes out if you say anything to defy him. Is he doing drugs? I'm sure he is. Is he hanging out with the wrong crow? Of course. His he having problems personally? I don't doubt it. But what can you do? My mother works double shifts left and right to make ends meet. I'm busy with music gigs, opera, teaching, etc. I don't have time either. Ultimately he's almost adult age and aware of right and wrong choices. So far all of them being wrong.

My mother is devastated. I tried to sit with her and comfort her. Tearfully she says, "Why did this have to happen now? It's Christmas time." How are you suppose to respond to that.

Anyway, I just don't know what to do with him. The police weren't very helpful about suggesting programs that could help him. They just said I could either press charges and have him sent to jail or I could not.

Some Christmas huh?

Anyone know of programs to deal with violent teenagers that have problems?

i'm not looking forward to christmas neither....my drug addict, felon, prostitute, baby abandoning, stealing from family, etc etc etc sister is attempting to get back in the family. Most of the family has accepted her back to a degree, i haven't and now I have everyone trying to put me on a guilt trip about it because i don't want her in my life at this point. Long long story but its stressful and has me dreading the holidays and everything about em.

I prefer a regular ol day now....things were so much different when i was a little kid.

Big HUGS baby!!!

In this case, I can sooo identify with what you're going thru. My sister (who's a lot older than a teen!) is just finishing up jailtime in a halfway house for meth possession & thank God she got caught with it or she'd probably be an o.d. statistic someday.

I know I didn't turn her in, but I think her getting arrested was the best thing that could ever happen to her. It was definitely a wakeup call. When she was busted, the judge said the ONLY way she could avoid hardtime was to enroll in a AA/NA program & serve time in a halfway house. Otherwise, I'm positive she never would have even admitted she had a problem, she was in such strong self-denial. She had already become the town "nut" with her emotional histrionics & bizarre behavior on that junk. She had even been arrested a few yrs back for shoplifting. She was out of control.

On top of this, I have a son who's bipolar & has exhibited violent, out-of-control behavior many times & I'm a single parent so I haven't had anyone around to "rescue" me. He's even shoved me into a chest of drawers & punched in a laptop screen when he was younger. He's cut school so many times, that he's already been called into juvi court. He's 17 now & by some miracle has outgrown most of his violent tendencies, however, I have made it crystal clear to him that if he EVER crosses the line & destroys anything again or gets physically violent with me I will call the cops & throw his butt in jail. I remind him of this when he acts up & it works very well, but I really think they have to believe you mean it.

I also work with the mentally ill & challenged & I really think you need to send this kid a wakeup call. Show him his behavior will NOT be tolerated & that there are consequences for his actions. I would have him arrested. Also, if it's possible after that knife incident, I would have a temporary restraining order drawn up as well. I wouldn't trust him in my home anymore. Maybe after he has his day in court, he would be willing to listen to recommendations for counseling programs with a little more open mind. I think you need to do this for everyone's sake. This kid's out of control.

I would also do a LOT of praying if you're up for it.:rolleyes: Good luck & God bless. Merry Christmas.

Paul Hun as you know I went through this with my sister since she was 14 she is now 32 It sounds to me he is hooked onm drugs
If I were you if there is a next time ..press charges! Once it is on his record you can suggest at his hearing or even write the prosecuting attorney to force him to attend programs and rehab I know our courts did it for my sister a few times

I know it hurts your mom but in the long run she will be grateful as he will be forced to get help

Mano, I'm soo sorry!!!
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b196/Joelstrouble/emos/klemme.gif

How old is your brother?
I'm asking because if he is over the age of 18.. there might be little you can do about getting him admitted to a conceling/theraphy program unless this is something he wants himself :( (that's how it workes here in Norway atleast).

No matter the the reason for his angerspells, you are not helping him by not contacting someone to help him... This is something your mom and you can't deal with yourself...

Paul, I am very sorry than you or anyone has to go through this. My friend's son did the same thing and it was discovered that he was not only on drugs, but bi-polar. She had him arrested (and he hated her for that, but too bad as her life was threatened!) as he was too old for the Baker Act (which you may want to look into), and he did go to trial and was given probation ONLY if he would go to counselling and get treatment. He is now on meds and away from the friends with whom he got into trouble, and she is finally seeing the light (but after 3 years of hell).

I think you have gotten good advice and the only thing I can add is to try to find out who his friends are and if you can, run some checks on them, just to see what you are dealing with. It is tough that is for sure, but the safety of you and your mother are of utmost importance.

Hugs,
Linda

I want to thank everyone for sharing their stories with Mano - there's nothing like the voice of experience.

Mano, I'm sure you're Mom's broken-hearted lament of "Why did this have to happen now? It's Christmas," tore your heart out, and I'm sure her broken heart is breaking yours - in addition to you're own feelings, but you have to use the strength your using to appease her and comfort her and not upset her further to do what you know has to be done for your brother and your family. She's in denial - it didn't just "happen now", it's been happening, it's been escalating, and it's only going to get worse. Everyone can understand and sympathize with her, but this is a serious situation that requires more than understanding and sympathy - something has to be done.

I'm sorry that you are going through this and I'm sorry that, at such a young age, you're the one who's going to have to deal with this, but it looks like your it.

My heart goes out to you, Mano.

And, joelstrouble, you have an excellent point - Mano's brother is, I think, 17, so they have to move quickly.

Mano,

Does your state have a drug court? In Arkansas, we have special courts for drug related offenders. They are so effective.

Your brother is at risk and I agree with others that most likely drugs are involved. Meth. is the most likely drug. The statistics aren't good regarding recovery the longer you wait. The brain is altered and the abuser is forever trying to reach a state of balance. It isn't all his fault; but the worst thing that can happen is for you to do nothing. It is not too late to press charges.

Talk with a parole officer about community programs.

Another option would be a juvenile officer with your police force. Have your brother submit to a drug test.

God bless you Mano and don't give up on your brother. Realize that drugs cause a disturbance in the way the brain functions where logic is involved.

If it is Mental Illness, contact your local mental health center.

There is help available for your family. You will be in my prayers.

I'm so sorry that you and your mother are going through this. :( I agree with all the advice about pressing charges. In fact, I wonder if it's not too late to change your mind. The best way to help him is through tough love and ensuring that he gets the help that he needs for himself, his family and the community.

We are here for you, Mano.

:grouphug:

I definitely agree with Whiterose. If you let this go and do nothing about it, there is a good possibliity that it will happen again. The disease of addiction is progressive and will only get worse if no intervention of any sort is rendered. Really think this through. Initially your mom may not understand your pressing charges but I think with time if your brother gets the help that he needs ..your mother will be grateful that you did. I hope everything works out.

I do not want to be overly dramatic , but it is the people who are most close to us, who we keep making excuses for and who we, in our hearts, still care about - that are the most dangerous. If a complete stranger pulled a knife on you, would you have even hesitated to press charges? Or taken the verbal abuse and threats? If your brother is mixed up in drugs, or dealing with mental illness or depression - then part of him IS a stranger and part of him CAN'T be trusted not do do something more drastic. And it is so much harder to believe that someone we have known and cared about could actually do something they couldn't take back....like hurting or killing a family member.

But it happens. It is the most frequent form of violence and homicide and if he is not thinking clearly as a result of drugs or depression, then he NEEDS help from an objective, outside person who he is less likely to go off on - less likely to antagonize or blow off their authority.

Besides my friend who was murdered by her estranged husband earlier this year (he was depressed and also killed himself...), another good friend of mine just suffered the loss of his grandmother at the hands of her alcoholic son (my friend's uncle, not his father....). And the family made excuses for him for years - he even fired a gun at my friend. But no one thought he would actually KILL his mother. This dysfunction went on for years....and ended tragically and has destroyed the whole family. I wish it was a rare occurance and that it had no bearing on your situation. But I am QUITE sure that neither my murdered friend or my other friend's grandmother honestly believed that their loved ones would get to the point of murder....

Your brother needs far more help than your mother or you can provide. He is young enough to maybe beat an addiction or get good help for any mental health problems he may be suffering from ....please don't allow his behavior to escalate to violence against himself, his family, or some stranger he freaks out on.

:bighug:

My g/f's niece went through a tough time from 13 - 17. She was in courts so many times that the judge finally had enough of her and sent her to Oregon...that tough love camp away from home for the summer.

I've forgotten what you call it. Anyway, they are taken out like far into the middle of nowhere and it teaches them to fend for themselves. Although the kid ended going every summer for 3 years, she is now 20, healthy, on her own, working, a b/f, less angry.

But yes, the next time, press charges...its the only way he going to get into any programs to help him with his addiction and anger issues.

I'm sending my prayers for you and your mom. Growing up we had to deal with an older brother/son on drugs, but he was never violent with us and after awhile he feel in love and she wasn't going to deal with his crap and he sought the programs out himself and cleaned himself up well by the time he was in his mid 20s. The power of prayer, I say.

Paris

Paris, I forgot to mention that my stepson went through a bootcamp type punishment, too. He wasn't using drugs (to the best of our knowledge). He was caught committing a series of crimes, including shoplifting, breaking and entering, stealing and forging my husband's signature on my husband's V.A. checks, and then eventually stealing a handgun from an army officer's quarters at Ft. Knox).

He served about a year at that juvenile detention camp and that the best thing that ever happened to him.

He spent several hours a day chopping firewood or some other sort of physical labor. And then after working so hard physically, they had group or individual counseling sessions with the boys to get them to open up about their problems. They were so exhausted from all the hard work that they just opened up and spilled out their emotions. This technique worked wonders for him. He learned to deal with some emotional issues that he had tried very hard to suppress.

All that time, we were there for him, visiting frequently, to show him that we loved him and supported him.

And he got his GED while there and went on to enlist in the Marines. That was 13 years ago and he is now career military. He has completely settled down.

If he is not 18, I would look at this as an advantage to getting him the help he needs before his life is ruined by criminal behavior, It could end up and probably will save his life, this may be of some comfort to your mom. But I do believe the time to act is now.

Godbless and I hope you make a decision soon.

I think that there is a high posibility he is on drugs. Teen is the worst age. My son became rebelious when he was 15 and now he is much better. Try to find time for him. Look long at hard at your agenda and see what you can drop, making sure it is worthwhile and that he would be willing to spend time with you too. Probably the knife incident is an imitation of what he sees on TV.

Can you test him for drugs? Maybe you should have told him that he has to be tested every so often or you will press charges.

Hugz.

That's fantastic White Rose...

Teens today face so much pressure then when we were teens. You really want to shelter them from 13 to 21. One can only hope for the best. I only had a sassy mouth with my mother but I always knew where NOT to cross that line. She had no problems beating the crap out of me in private or public.

And though I hated her at times, now that I'm older, I appreciated her tough love tactics, it kept me out of serious trouble and teen pregnancy more than she'll ever know.

And I didn't even have to go to bootcamp for it. Bootcamp was in my house with my parents.

Paris

Mano, I feel so bad for you.. :bighug:
A lot of great advice here, and I would follow some of it if you can.. I think one thing is how hard this is on you.. I am sure in your heart you just wish you could go back to a time when your family was happy together during the holiday season. I think it is important during this time of year to act in love, and sometimes it is hard when people are doing things that hurt themselves.. Being loving and forgiving is hard-- especially with a confused, probably addicted teenager that thinks he is a grown up.. You have a big heart I sense from reading your posts on the board, and your mom knows this I am sure. I would bet you are a rock for her in this tumultous time though maybe she would not admit it. I hope you take some time for yourself in all this, realize that your brother is not in his right mind, and in that context -- I am sure you will be able to forgive to a point -- the grief he has caused you and your mom.. The other piece of that is, helping him however hard it is-- by loving him enough not to give up on him, and if it means locking him up temporarily - or getting him arrested-- hopefully it will keep him alive and set him on a better road. Also hopefully he will appreciate at some point what you are trying to do for him.. Finally, it does not always work with famliy, sometimes we have to give up holding them/supporting them/ bailing them out..
I had to do this with my Father, it was the hardest thing I ever had to do--- to let go of that rope I was holding him up on the side of the cliff with. (mental picture) The thing is, everybody makes choices, and when you are holding the rope, they can choose to climb up out of their mess, and get their act together, or they can pull you over the edge into their garbage and you can both fall.. They also have the option of letting go and falling alone, or you can let go and they can fall.. But it is all a choice.. I had to let go because dear father, he would have taken my very life, had I kept holding on--I gave him his options, and he chose to not let go on his own, so I had to let go and walk away and out of his life-- I can still hear the guilt he heaped on me, not a good daughter, not there for me, all I need is a little help/little money.. you get the picture..
It was sooo hard.. so in a way I can imagine how you feel.. I do forgive my father, but I can not let him into my life, not ever again because he is toxic to me and to others he is involved with. I still love him, because he is my dad, but he no longer gets into my heart & world like he did at one time, I see him more as someone I know, but not that has any influence on my life/feelings & I have very firm boundaries which I will never ever concede on-- and that is something I feel good about, and I think it is truly healthy as he will never change.
I think the blessing of being an adult is realizing we make our families as adults, as children we are born by blood into families, but as adults we get to choose our families, those we share our lives and our hearts with. I think that is something to hold on positively, and know, even if your brother is out of your life, there are many other brothers & sisters to be found in this life for you, and you can choose them and be blessed by them.
I hope through all this, you see how much people care for you, and know that no matter what you have our support. Many of us are troubled/miserable and broken, during the holidays... I hope you can look to the positive, how many things to be thankful for, and try to bring that to your mom as well, focus on the good, and the future.. Know that God, always knows the pain & suffering in our hearts, and can take care of your brother so much better than anyone--can turn his life around in a heartbeat. I will pray for your family this holiday and for you, that you will find peace and happiness in some moments of the next weeks, and figure out the right answer-- that I know you are seeking. God Bless, take care of you..
:bighug: :bighug:
Lily

Aw Paul, sweetie...this sucks major! You have to let your mother know that she is not doing your brother any favors by trying to protect him from the consequences of his actions. Maybe you didn't turn in him, but what about someone else? If he keeps going like this, he will turn on others, and the least of his worries would be jail....ever see what happens when you bring a knife to a gun fight? The best christmas gift, hard as it is to see it, is to try to stop him from following the road he is on. There are some things that can still be done as long as he is 17, and a minor. Once he turns 18...there is nothing that you can do for him to help him unless he wants it.

Try to be strong, and try to give strength and support to your mother. She is going to have to face the fact that right now she has two sons, but if your brother continues this behavior, she might end up with only one.


hugs

Mano, can we have an update to this situation, please.

Mano I lived with a drug addict for 10 years.

I agree with many others this does sound like the behavior of someone doing drugs. My husband would say he was going to the store and be gone for days without a word...he would do whatever it took to get out of the house and also to get money. He stole from my parents...he even pawned the wedding ring he gave me. He would drop my kids and I off at my parents or his parents and have some reason to go somewhere and then not come back and pick us up.

During those 10 years I tried to get him to stop....tried to make money unavailable...tried to keep him from getting out of my sight...covered for him in many situations.

We finally divorced and a year later he broke into his parents house and they pressed charges and he spent 6 months in jail....that was it....he has not done drugs since....that was 4 years ago and he has been holding down a steady job for nearly that time and has turned his life around and has a new girlfriend and a new car and is very happy.

It sounds harsh...but your family is enabling your brother to continue this behavior. He has to want to stop...he has to hit bottom before he can come back up....sounds like cliches but it is true. You cannot make him stop, your mother cannot make him stop.

Better for him to end up in jail than in the morgue.

I sincerely hope things get better for you and your family.