I *lost* it last night...

My frustration with my OM hit an all-time high last night. Even thinking about it now, I'm just getting steamed again (so that's why I decided to get it down in words).

I'll start my explaining what my "losing it" means. Yes, I used a few, erm, colorful words in the conversation, but I never really raised my voice at all. Actually, I didn't use all that many words at all. I basically called him out on what I felt he was doing, and let himself dig his own hole with it. I *knew* full well that nothing was going to be settled during this conversation, so I thought that I would just sit back and let him really tell me how he felt. Worked like a charm, actually.

Bit of background: he's 59, I'm almost 35. We've been together for 2 years now, and I moved about 6 months ago to where I am about 100 miles away from him. We've been seeing each other just about every weekend since September. The relationship is just, well, there. It's a "take it as it comes" situation, and maybe that's part of the issue going on.

So, here's where the "LD issue" comes in. When we're not together physically, we chat online in the evenings. Since we have been together so often recently, this has become more of a chore than anything else. After all, unless something earth-shattering happens, what do you really have to speak about? Especially online. If I know that I'm going to be spending Friday night in person with him, why do I need to spend Wednesday night watching him on cam watching TV and putting in a random comment every now and then?

I thought that we had put this issue to rest a couple of months ago, agreeing that chatting online wasn't a huge issue, and that if one or the other person wasn't around at the appointed time, we'd just chat the next day...or not. Well, fast forward to last night....

I left his place early this past Monday morning. I spoke to him on the phone Monday afternoon when I got home (and, I *think* we had a brief chat online that night). Tuesday, I fell asleep early. No chat. Wednesday, same thing. Last night, I was there, at the "appointed time", and was just not in the mood to type to him. Maybe I should have said something. I didn't though. Within about 10 minutes, the mood went from "okay" to "apocalyptic". Why? Because I was giving him "one word answers" to his queries (which, for the record, DID only require one word answers). This, in itself, would probably have been fine, were it not for the (IMO) snarky comment that I got from him, to the effect of "well, I see that you're not in the mood to talk to me and that this won't end well. Go and do what you'd rather do."

I had heard this one before and, for whatever reason, *this* was the straw that made me say to him, "you're not pulling this on me this time. We can chat at some other time, but this is NOT my fault."

Which led to the inevitable phone call. Again, a total mess. It was him saying to me that he's "trying his best" and that I'm not responding. After a few choice words, I let him go on. Disappointing, yet quite enlightening at the same time.

What I'm feeling today was so eloquently expressed by Paul Newman in "Cool Hand Luke". What we've got here is a failure to communicate...

That's the issue, I know, communication.

But, I suppose, my ultimate question with all of this, is how do you "communicate" with someone who would profess to his dying day that he's "out there and honest", but you know, for a fact, that it's simply not the truth?

Yes, he's "out there" with a lot of what he's thinking, but the more important issues are left unsaid. He's the one who told me that he couldn't "commit", yet has snarky responses like, "were you out with your other boyfriend?" when I'm not at his beck and call. What am I supposed to think with things like that, and how long can I accept that it's "my fault" when our communication goes awry?

I'll take some blame, but I certainly won't take all of it. I don't say a lot of what I'm thinking (often to my detriment), but at least I admit that. Frankly, I believe that he is YEARNING for this commitment. For he, himself, to be able to give it. And that's why I've stayed for so long. I see that he wants to be able to give it, and all that, but when this yearning comes out in this other BS, all he's accomplishing is driving me away.

SOOOO....after all of this....any ideas, whatsoever, about dealing with this situation?

I know we need to discuss it, but, considering the particular circumstances, any ideas out there about how to approach it? I'm not giving this one up without something of a fight, primarily because I know (and kind of understand) where it's coming from, and I do adore the man. :)

Thanks in advance for any responses (and reading my long post).

I understand exactly where you are coming from. And I would have been quite upset too if someone were trying to make me feel guilty with their snarky remarks. I don't like that kind of ****.

LDR's can be difficult. And especially with the communication side of them. I'm sorry that you ended up on the phone and things didn't really get any better at that point.

I also don't think you should have to tie yourself to a computer every day waiting for your partner to show up just to sit there and have little to talk about.

It's important that you continue to have a life of your own. If there is a movie you want to watch on the telly or even at the cinema, then go for it. If you feel like curling up with a good book to read or want to catch up on errands, or whatever, go for it. I assume you have friend's that you like to talk with on the phone or get together with for a night out once in a while too. Go for it! The things you do apart and separate from one another gives you something to actually talk about when you do set a time to be online.

He needs to get over it and stop playing that woe is me card. That kind of behaviour is immature and not very conducive to having any real communication.

He needs to get over it and stop playing that woe is me card. That kind of behaviour is immature and not very conducive to having any real communication.

Oh man, I just had to LOL with that "woe is me" comment. Because, you know, when I told him where he could go with this issue last night, he told ME that I was too busy feeling sorry for myself, etc, etc.

He's going through his own issues now, which I have been by his side with, no question. And, I'd say that *maybe* they were shaping his communication skills now, but since this was happening WAY before the issues came up...

I've always felt that there was something here, something that I could say or do that would open him up. You know, just something simple. But, after 2 years, I can't figure it out. I haven't even come across it by accident. And, yes, it's getting REALLY tiring.

In these situations, I DON'T play games. I don't say or do things in order to get a certain reaction, or "keep him on his toes". BUT...and here's where it gets complicated in my mind...I also don't feel the need to explain where I've been or what I've been doing, especially since there's NOT a "commitment" on his part. Especially when he comes out with "so, were you with your other boyfriend" type comments. EXCUSE ME????

He's being an idiot. I see that, his friends see that, strangers see that. And, if at the end of the day, we part ways, and he thinks it's "my fault" for it, there's no changing it. As hard as that is, I *do* accept it.

But, before that time comes, I'd like to take some action to prevent it.

I just thought about another part of our conversation on the phone last night. When I got quiet, and just let him tell me what was wrong, he commented on it. I responded, "there's really no need to argue about this, because there's no way to win". I went on about "choosing my battles", and all of that. I honestly thought that fighting to the death about who had more words written on MSN was silly. His response? "What, you're 'too intelligent' to do it?"

Well, yes. BUT....I see what he was really saying with that. I honestly don't think that it was as much of a "dig" on my intelligence/education (after all, HE'S the guy who, when we're randomly talking to people, will tell them, with pride, that I'm a lawyer), inasmuch as it was him telling me, in a not-so-positive way, that he has a personal issue with it. Like, what in God's name am I doing with him?

So, now, with that being said....

Is there any way to bring this up, other than in the "gee, we have to talk" way?

I've tried, repeatedly, to tell (and show) him that I'm with him because I WANT to be, and he's worth it, and all of that. I'm open to suggestions about how else to tell (show) him. I'm not the most demonstrative person in the world, so maybe there are a lot of things I haven't thought about.

Obviously, I feel that this relationship is "worth it", so I'm looking for some ideas on how to deal with these issues.

Am sorry you are going through this....your o/m sounds a lot like my last bf "D"....it's hard.
Blessings, TD

Thanks, TD. It IS really tiring, isn't it?

I've wanted to call him all day, just to discuss things, you know? I don't know what to say, obviously, but I also hate playing games.

GAHHHH....why is this so hard?

He sounds a lot like my ex. And to tell you the truth, I doubt he will ever change.

It sounds like your guy has some issues with self worth, etc. But he also sounds like he sabatoges himself as well just to comfirm what he feels inside. You know, a lot of people go through life like that and it is truly sad. And no matter how often you tell a person how great they are or how much they have to offer, how much you appreciate them, or point out to them all of their strengths, unless they believe it, they will continue to sabatoge themselves.

Communication is key in a relationship and everyone has their own way of communicating. But I eventually got tired of hitting the brick wall over and over in my previous marriage and it really was one of the factors that led to divorce.

And don't you just hate the tables being turned to make everything look like your fault? It's called projection! Makes me crazy!

I wish I had some magic answer to what you are dealing with, but I don't. But I truly can empathise.

I'm sorry you're going through that. :(

Him saying he can't commit while implying that you should (asking about the other boyfriend) is a red flag to me. My ex started doing that after she had already committed and it turned out she was cheating on me...

Mish
Don't forget that wounded birds will lash out and pull back as they are getting closer to someone. Their whole being resists and rebels, all the while yearning for the closeness and stability of the person they are with.

Some get through it. I hope you and Canuck are in that category!

And don't you just hate the tables being turned to make everything look like your fault? It's called projection! Makes me crazy!

I wish I had some magic answer to what you are dealing with, but I don't. But I truly can empathise.

Oh, GRRRRR.....I *saw* it happening last night, and told him "you will NOT make this my fault". But, inevitably, he tried to. When we were on the phone, that became apparent.

I have my own issues, I know and accept that. But, I also am smart enough to understand that not everything that happens is my doing. Does that make sense? LOL

I almost wish that I could ask him (without him going nuts), what exactly he wants me to do. ERG. This is SO frustrating.

Thanks for your empathy. It *is* nice to know that I'm not totally off-base with this.

I'm sorry you're going through that. :(

Him saying he can't commit while implying that you should (asking about the other boyfriend) is a red flag to me. My ex started doing that after she had already committed and it turned out she was cheating on me...

Thanks. :)

Yeah, it's weird, isn't it? I don't think that he's cheating, actually. (Though, I could be very wrong about that.) I believe this comes from his own baggage. He *did* actually admit to me several weeks ago that he does keep a lot of stuff inside, which was a HUGE step for him.

If he's bound and determined to end up alone in this life, that's his choice. Maybe he *is* too hurt to deal with someone like me...

Anyway, thanks again for your input. It all gives me food for thought. :)

Mish
Don't forget that wounded birds will lash out and pull back as they are getting closer to someone. Their whole being resists and rebels, all the while yearning for the closeness and stability of the person they are with.

Some get through it. I hope you and Canuck are in that category!

Yes, but what happens when two wounded birds are in a relationship? ;)

I get what you're saying though, and I see it in him. Heck, if I didn't see it, I wouldn't be here two years later (move and all).

I have an analogy for this, and maybe I've stated it here before. But, here it goes anyway...

Where I grew up, there were lots of feral cats. As a kid, I used to go out and try to "befriend them". I used to wake up before school and sit out on the driveway with food, patiently waiting for them to come. Inevitably, they did. Skittish as they were. Week after week, they were there, coming closer to me. I learned quickly that, if I moved slowly closer to them as they were eating, I could actually reach out and pet them. But, if I moved too quickly, or made the "wrong move", no dice. They were gone.

I have seen my Canuck like this from just about the start. And, believe me, I've tried, as much as I could, to understand it.

It's just getting to the point now where I'm beginning to say to myself, "what else can I do?".

I KNOW, for a fact, that he doesn't want to lose me. It's just plain evident. But, I just want to grab him by the collar and shake some sense into him...because if he keeps doing this, he WILL lose me. And, no, I won't feel that it's "my fault".

Thanks for the good wishes, and I hope that he does eventually "get" this. :D

Mish~
it's ebb tide, go out and get full with other friends and activities. You can't do a darn thing to bring the tide in any faster and an angry woman will make it stay out longer.

He is just scared. Take lots of initiatives, do what you want, when you want, if you want, do NOT wait around for anything and be sweet (authentically). If things go your way, fine. If things don't go your way, fine.

What do think you're supposed to do?
A relationship can't go any faster than the pace of the slowest partner.

Getting into blame will ruin everything you ever hoped for. :no:

Thanks Rebecca....

To add a little more to the mix, I'm sitting here, literally shaking my head....he has decided to put himself into a potentially horrible situation tomorrow, around his ex-wife.

I just don't get it. Even taking myself and my feelings out of the mix, I simply don't understand why someone would put themselves into a situation that will obviously lead to nothing good, whatsoever.

Long story short. *Our* curling club. One of the leagues that he was in decided that when his ex-wife wanted to come back, after about 4 years absence, it was either her or him. He lost out. Understandable hard feelings, for sure. Over this weekend, there's going to be a bonspiel (curling tournament) that he was told, basically, he was not welcome in, for the same reason. He's planning to go tomorrow to watch. It's not such a far-fetched idea normally. But, under these circumstances....

Now that I write this and think about it, I'm P*SSED about it. This is *my* club too. These people know ME as well. What he does there, *I* have to deal with as well. If he makes a total donkey of himself, it reflects on ME. I have enough to deal with in the rest of my life, not to have to think about anything but having FUN when I go to the club. And, hell, to have to deal with it because of his ex????

Please, tell me, am I totally off with this?

I told him to take a friend. (His friends are pretty good "consciences" when I'm not there.) While he agreed, he also ended the convo with "thanks mom".

Oh, man, I am SEETHING now.

Ok, to the point I know, but.........he is how old and doesn't know himself or have the self control to moderate his behavior to the point he cannot be responsible for his actions and needs a chaperone ????
Just a very outside, objective opinion looking in :o
Are you happy, really happy with everything?
That's all:yes:

My frustration with my OM hit an all-time high last night.

It's your frustration to own! It sounds like you're not really into each other. If you have to work so hard for the relationship rather than for the circumstances (long distance, and it's not really that far apart) then I understand the frustration. I wouldn't want to be with somebody if it didn't feel right.

I am not you or him and I'm not in your relationship, but I sense drama that need not be there and if you're not into each other, then maybe it's just that time to move on.

I've been in a long distance relationship for a few years and we are 6000km apart and see each other as often as possible...it's not perfect but we love each other and try our hard us to make things work.

To add a little more to the mix, I'm sitting here, literally shaking my head....he has decided to put himself into a potentially horrible situation tomorrow, around his ex-wife.

I don't understand why, if you feel this way, that you're indulging in the emotional roller coaster that accompanies this situation?

I'm trying to get though this thread without bias but your man sounds like a loser so far. *reads on*

Mish--
If you want to be with this man, then you must accept him exactly the way he is. The club issues around the curling, his desire to be there, the ex-wife...none of that is your stuff. This is his stuff and it is not you. To let it make you crazy is giving power to that stuff. Why even go there? Stay on your side of the street. you did NOT cause that stuff and you absolutely cannot control it. It does NOT reflect you, your anger and frustration reflects you. I know it's hard to separate it sometimes when we are emotionally triggered by another's choices, but they are his. Just like you have your own. he does not sound like a jerk to me, he sound like a guy who has some unfinished business and messy boundaries. I feel sorry for men like that because they may not know they way out of it (that's NOT your job to teach him either.) This does not preclude feelings for you, but if he is emotionally still with one foot in a slippery area, he doesn't have a full heart to give you, although he may wish he did. He may care very much but not be able to do or give more because of his stuff. Every step you have made to be closer to him and every expectation and every interpretation is your stuff. You just can't blame him, dear. You've been at this for two years. Now accept your quirky guy, tell him you aren't comfortable and go take care of yourself. When you tell him what hurts, what's uncomfortable, just get it out (with love) -I can never hear anything someone is saying when they are angry with me, and the can never hear me when I am angry. be vulnerable, tell him it hurts, and have no expectations. If the pattern doesn't change, then start practicing the Serenity Prayer. Get empowered! Let go! :yes:

Good suggestions from Rebecca Sue. Tell him you're uncomfortable, but then go and do your own thing. That would cut out the "Mommy" comment type thing from happening again.

It seems to me that he is very scared of committment and of losing you at the same time. Not seeing you online makes him nervous because he has not committed to you and worries you might be with someone else. You need to stand up for yourself in a nice way. I've found the more you attempt to placate someone with insecurity issues, the more you need to continue to do so.

If it were me, I'd make it clear as another poster said that you feel that by doing things on your own you have more interesting things to share and talk about when you are online. Let him know that you want to live life rather than be tied to a computer.

And then when you are online, maybe it would be better to communicate with more than one-word responses. It comes across as bored. and uninterested. And that would set him off in panic mode. Let him know you will be more present with him when online, but that you do not want to be tied down to a rigid schedule.

That way, he will see that you love him, but need a bit of space. And it will give him a chance to move to you and maybe closer to committment. If he has you tied to him and he is not committed, what motivation does he have to come closer?

I do assume you are exclusive though not totally committed to the future?

I am not you or him and I'm not in your relationship, but I sense drama that need not be there and if you're not into each other, then maybe it's just that time to move on.

I've been in a long distance relationship for a few years and we are 6000km apart and see each other as often as possible...it's not perfect but we love each other and try our hard us to make things work.

Honestly, where did you get the idea that we "weren't into each other"? The fact that I don't tolerate some of the things that he does? Or that, yes, I come to a point where I need to vent?

One of the reasons why I HATE posting on sites like this that this type of answer comes about in just about any relationship query. Nothing personally, but, honestly, what point does it serve?

Your posts about your relationship comes across as cold and distant. Maybe it's just your writing style but somehow I don't feel the love for this man emanating from your posts. Don't get me wrong, I'm not jumping on the bandwagon for you to leave him as he doesn't seem all that bad to me; battered, emotionally immature maybe, but not awful as some are making him out to be.

Some of the things you 'complain' about I personally wouldn't make a big deal about as having a good talk with my om should sort them out. You seem to withhold a lot of your feelings and then stew over it for a while before talking about them. By that time you have convinced yourself that you know the solution to the problem and you get frustrated when he doesn't respond how you'd like him to.

Try placing the shoe on the other foot before jumping to conclusions. You may not respond to an event the way he does, but that doesn't invalidate his feelings. Frankly, I think that if you have nothing to talk about within the weekdays when you are apart then maybe you don't have much in common. Or could it be that you are dissatisfied with the relationship and resentment is mounting and blocking the connection that you once felt for him? I would be upset if having not spoken to my OM in two nights he appears disinterested on the third night. So he reacted negatively and makes a silly comment about you being with someone, fine discuss that and move on. But try to see why he made that comment and how you both could find your self back onto the same page.

Here's my suggestion: Tell your OM what you want from the relationship. Tell him how his behaviours affects the way how you feel. Tell him in a non-confrontational way that his lack of commitment makes you question whether your commitment to him is foolhardy. OUTLINE THE CHARACTERISTICS OF COMMITMENT AS YOU SEE IT; in other words tell him what you expect that this juncture.Tell him you moved all this way because you see the potential for the relationship to blossom into something beautiful and you are concerned that he has not made the same level of commitment. If you want to be engaged, tell him that. If you want to move in together, tell him that. After two years, you both should have a clear idea as to the direction of the relationship. After two years you should both know how to get what you want from each other.

After your talk with him, give the relationship sometime, maybe a 6months or a year and if nothing changes then you know it's time to move on. In the meantime, let go of all your fears, take a leap and stop holding on to the little things. You may have traveled the distance to be closer to this man, but you haven't really let go of you fears and anxiety. You have already made the move so there's really nothing you can do about it if the relationship doesn't work. Stop holding on to the thought that I made this move so you now need to make your move, this is inhibiting your ability to grow closer together. I'm not blaming you for the problems in your relationship, all I'm saying is that you need to look at what you can do to make things better. Speak to him about your needs and then you can let go of the hurt feelings and the frustration. If after a while your needs are still not met then you've done your part.

All the best!

ALthough I understand you hurting but i do know he is hurting to. Men sometimes do not know how to talk and it also sounds like he is insecure about him and scared.

There is a few comments you made that bother me though.

So, here's where the "LD issue" comes in. When we're not together physically, we chat online in the evenings. Since we have been together so often recently, this has become more of a chore than anything else. After all, unless something earth-shattering happens, what do you really have to speak about? Especially online. If I know that I'm going to be spending Friday night in person with him, why do I need to spend Wednesday night watching him on cam watching TV and putting in a random comment every now and then?

Kai and I have been together almost 2 years now. We webcam everyday and almost 24/7 have the headset on. It does not matter we still find something incredible to share and just listening to him breathe or me is comforting..to know he is on the other side of it... I just did not get why it would be a chore to you if you love him so much:(

I left his place early this past Monday morning. I spoke to him on the phone Monday afternoon when I got home (and, I *think* we had a brief chat online that night). Tuesday, I fell asleep early. No chat. Wednesday, same thing. Last night, I was there, at the "appointed time", and was just not in the mood to type to him. Maybe I should have said something. I didn't though. Within about 10 minutes, the mood went from "okay" to "apocalyptic". Why? Because I was giving him "one word answers" to his queries (which, for the record, DID only require one word answers). This, in itself, would probably have been fine, were it not for the (IMO) snarky comment that I got from him, to the effect of "well, I see that you're not in the mood to talk to me and that this won't end well. Go and do what you'd rather do."

That's the issue, I know, communication

Okay I would have been upset as well though. I would think I had done something wrong if I was getting one word answers. Maybe you should have told him you are having a rough day and not in the mood to talk right now and tell him it was not him. Just knowing that would have been better then just making him feel as if you did not want to talk to him or make him feel like it was a job to talk to him.

Personally it sounds like you both need to stop blaming each other and think how to improve the realtionship. When someone heres well you did this or that all the time (not saying you or him do this ALL the time) it does make you feel like you do not want to try anymore and you begin to withdraw.

If you both can't talk I would suggest counciling to maybe smooth a pathway:)

Honestly, where did you get the idea that we "weren't into each other"? The fact that I don't tolerate some of the things that he does? Or that, yes, I come to a point where I need to vent?

One of the reasons why I HATE posting on sites like this that this type of answer comes about in just about any relationship query. Nothing personally, but, honestly, what point does it serve?

The point is that I sense drama from your post, and it makes the situation appear as I said. I was trying to tell you that I don't know how it really is in your relationship but that if you are not really all that into each other, then why put yourself through the motions?

I don't understand your hostility.

Cham (GG), I think that different people are different with respect to spending time on the phone. Chris and I are just not phone people! Luckily, I no longer need to be a phone person. But, I don't think it reflects how into someone you are necessarily... (little plug for Mish and her man)

Cham (GG), I think that different people are different with respect to spending time on the phone. Chris and I are just not phone people! Luckily, I no longer need to be a phone person. But, I don't think it reflects how into someone you are necessarily... (little plug for Mish and her man)

true true lol

what I wanted to point out is there is lack of communication on both parts from what i am reading...it just sounds EEK

I understand what you're saying now...

I understand what you're saying now...


lol i knew ya would sistah!

stop chatting on line and use the phone when you want to talk. keeps communication much more clear. you get to hear the voice instead of read words you can easily misunderstand the spirit of. make this relationship an "in person" or "phone only" one.

stop chatting on line and use the phone when you want to talk. keeps communication much more clear. you get to hear the voice instead of read words you can easily misunderstand the spirit of. make this relationship an "in person" or "phone only" one.

Amen to that! Honestly, I think the beauty of IM'ing is that one doesn't want or expect an immediate or lengthy reply, thereby allowing you to do other things as you chat. If he expects your chat time to be this intense, heart-to-heart encounter, you might as well be talking on the phone!

stop chatting on line and use the phone when you want to talk. keeps communication much more clear. you get to hear the voice instead of read words you can easily misunderstand the spirit of. make this relationship an "in person" or "phone only" one.

or get a headset...I cant call or afford to call kai being so far away and we voice chat...I hate typing so hearing his voice is a must..makes us closer to!


Have to agree here either call or get a headset with mic!