This Just ticks me off!

Read this
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23327116/?GT1=10856
I so can't believe these people..poor lady and family!

Poor woman. I hope they sue.

It is very sad, but let's not have a kneejerk reaction. I don't think they would have grounds to sue and I certainly wouldn't if it were me.

I don't believe airlines are required to carry oxygen tanks for medical purposes (at least I didn't see it on any information I saw) and the Good Samaritan laws limit liability.

The airline didn't cause the condition which killed her (she had heart disease) and if it WAS a heart attack - the oxygen wouldn't have helped anyhow. If they had denied her the right to have her own oxygen tank on board, that would be a different matter entirely.

On the other hand, if the empty bottles were those that are there to supply oxygen to the passengers in the event of cabin depressurization, I'll bet that AA will be in hot water for THAT!! But they are called "portable" bottles, so I doubt that is what they were there for.

good post Kristin...I too wondered about the "facts" in the article.

If she had her own Oxygen, arrangements would have been made to give her oxygen on board. Most airlines will NOT allow you to bring your own tanks on board (my mom researched this when my step-dad was alive), but will work with you on supplying it.

If she needed it and did not tell the airlines prior to booking, then she was quite remiss and paid dearly for it.

good post Kristin...I too wondered about the "facts" in the article.

If she had her own Oxygen, arrangements would have been made to give her oxygen on board. Most airlines will NOT allow you to bring your own tanks on board (my mom researched this when my step-dad was alive), but will work with you on supplying it.

If she needed it and did not tell the airlines prior to booking, then she was quite remiss and paid dearly for it.

What I wonder though is why after sometime was she first denied it?? and how come the airlines does not do safety checks for those type of things such as the oxygen tanks...scaryyyyyyyy

What I wonder though is why after sometime was she first denied it?? and how come the airlines does not do safety checks for those type of things such as the oxygen tanks...scaryyyyyyyy

I guess paintball is good for something :)

According to DOT on CO2 tanks for paintball, all tanks made from aluminum must be hydrotested after a set period of time of use. Like my CO2 tank of 16 oz is up for testing in October of this year.

Tanks made from different metals require different saftey requirments. This is why an aluminum coke can crushes with your hands and a steel made can from the vegetable section of the grocery store requires more effort to crush.

Some metals are simply less resilient than others. It's like people. One rule does not fit all. This is why zero tolerance in schools just doesn't work. I would know, I graduated in 2004. I have almost seen everything under the iron fist of zero tolerance and I still have the honor of knowing what it was like before my county had it.

But anyway that is the lo down on tanks. Truth is an oxygen tank can be filled with an explosive gas for an IED (Improvised Explosive Device) and then you got trouble. That's what the rule is about.

I love the Military/History Channel. Military EOD is awesome :) (Explosive Ordinance Disposal)

I imagine that if they had 2 oxygen tanks on board is because there is a rule that it has to be so. I do not think they would be carrying junk just for the sake of it.

As Cuteguy says, gas tanks have to be tested every so many months, same as with fire extinguishers.

I wonder if oxygen would have saved her. Or if she had it prescribed and she did not alert the airline, so I imagine all of this will come out in the autopsy and subsequent findings.

but just because they say they need to be tested every few months does not mean the airlines has...not saying they dont but i think it needs to be looked into

I found a site that listed what airlines were required to provide medically, including defibrillators, but oxygen was not on the list.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FSL/is_5_74/ai_81161375

There are regulations in place about allowing a traveler to bring on personal oxygen - but none for providing oxygen.

And further research sems to indicate that the oxygen masks that drop for cabin pressure are not suitable for medical needs and only deploy in an emergency - so would not be the portable tanks described in the story.

If, with more research, it is found that the deceased wanted to bring her own tank and was refused because she was assured she could use the onboard tanks, then there would be a case against the airline.

Why she was refused the first two times, who knows? Maybe he thought she was just having a panic attack or something. No one said they were rude about refusing.

but just because they say they need to be tested every few months does not mean the airlines has...not saying they dont but i think it needs to be looked into

Alot of places who refill the tanks will not refill the tanks if it is past the mandatory test date indicated on the label and forged in code onto the bottle if it has not been tested. Trust me, they know if it hasn't been tested. :)

The airlines don't have to. The refillers will pretty much just refuse, by law they have to refuse to fill it.


BTW it has occured to me as my mind rolls along thinking of everything I know about certain things that just after I posted the previous post that oxygen in and of it's self when compressed and becomes subject to fire, embers, or sparks becomes explosive and seeks basic physics and trys to find the path of least resistance and compromises the structural integrity of the tank and possible the confined area it is in via the direct explosive reaction or by fragmentation of the tank.

The bigger the tank the bigger the boom. Portables are pretty much harmless. But all you need is a spark, no cigarette is required.

C&P from MSNBC:


NEW YORK - American Airlines on Monday insisted it tried to help a passenger who died after complaining she could not breathe, and disputed the account of a relative who said that she was denied oxygen and that medical devices failed.

The airline said the oxygen tanks and a defibrillator on the flight from Haiti were working and noted that several medical professionals on the flight, including a doctor, tried to save the passenger, Carine Desir, 44, who had heart disease.

"American Airlines, after investigation, has determined that oxygen was administered on the aircraft, and it was working, and the defibrillator was applied as well," airline spokesman Charley Wilson said Monday.


Desir had complained of not feeling well and being very thirsty on the Friday flight home from Port-au-Prince, Haiti, after she ate a meal, according to Antonio Oliver, a cousin who was traveling with her and her brother, Joel Desir. A flight attendant gave her water, he said.

A few minutes later, Desir said she was having "trouble breathing" and asked for oxygen, but a flight attendant twice refused her request, Oliver said.

"Don't let me die," he recalled her saying.

Doctors, nurses step in
He said other passengers aboard Flight 896 became agitated over the situation, and the flight attendant, apparently after phone consultation with the ****pit, tried to administer oxygen from a portable tank and mask, but the tank was empty.

Oliver said two doctors and two nurses were aboard and tried to administer oxygen from a second tank, which also was empty. Desir was placed on the floor, and a nurse tried cardiopulmonary resuscitation, Oliver said. A defibrillator, which he called a "box," also was applied but did not function effectively, he said.

Oliver said he then asked for the plane to "land right away so I can get her to a hospital," and the pilot agreed to divert to Miami, 45 minutes away. But during that time Desir collapsed and died, Oliver said.

"Her last words were, 'I cannot breathe,'" he said.

There were 12 oxygen tanks on the plane and the crew checked them before the flight took off to make sure they were working, Wilson said. He said at least two were used on Desir.

The Federal Aviation Administration requires commercial flights to carry no fewer than two oxygen dispensers. The main goal of the rule is to have oxygen available in the event of a rapid cabin decompression, but it can also be used for other emergencies. It is up to the airlines to maintain the canisters.

Flight attendants are trained not to automatically give oxygen to every passenger who requests it but instead use airline criteria to judge when it's needed, said Leslie Mayo, a spokeswoman for the union representing American's attendants.

Wilson said Desir's cousin flagged down a flight attendant and said the woman had diabetes and needed oxygen.

"The flight attendant responded, 'OK, but we usually don't need to treat diabetes with oxygen, but let me check anyway and get back to you.'"

Wilson said the employee spoke with another flight attendant, and both went to Desir within one to three minutes.

"By that time the situation was worsening, and they immediately began administering oxygen," he said.

Wilson said the defibrillator was used but that the machine indicated Desir's heartbeat was too weak to activate the unit.

An automated external defibrillator delivers an electric shock to try to restore a normal heart rhythm if a a particular type of irregular heart beat is detected. The machines cannot help in all cases.

Flight crew ‘acted admirably’
Wilson said three flight attendants helped Desir, but "stepped back" after doctors and nurses on the flight began to help her.

"Our crew acted very admirably. They did what they were trained to do, and the equipment was working," he said.

Desir was pronounced dead by one of the doctors, Joel Shulkin, and the flight continued to John F. Kennedy International Airport, without stopping in Miami. The woman's body was moved to the floor of the first-class section and covered with a blanket, Oliver said.

Desir died of complications from heart disease and diabetes, said Ellen Borakove, a spokeswoman for the medical examiner's office.

************************************************** *****

We have yet to hear from the medical personnel on board and other witnesses.....we should with hold judgement until they weigh in...IMHO

The Federal Aviation Administration requires commercial flights to carry no fewer than two oxygen dispensers. The main goal of the rule is to have oxygen available in the event of a rapid cabin decompression, but it can also be used for other emergencies. It is up to the airlines to maintain the canisters.
Like I thought - not required for medical purposes!

Just goes to show you can't snap to judgement.

Chat rooms all over the net are calling for blood. That's how lynch mobs and vigilantism get started IRL! :eek:

True.

You don't get the gallows ready until the facts are clear beyond a shadow of a doubt.

They did all they could. With doctors on board thats easily assessable that they did do everything in their power to keep her on this earth till proper medical assistance could reach her.

Though she did, the effort is still honorable and worthy of recognition. Well done.

Gee, so what if there was a rapid decompresion? 100 people dead instead of one? :eek:

And of course the airlines would have to maintain the canisters.

Gee, so what if there was a rapid decompresion? 100 people dead instead of one? :eek:

And of course the airlines would have to maintain the canisters.

good point

the timeline i think is when the 1 to 2 mins pass before the other flight attendent comes as well...if someone is in distress..i would not be sitting there eplaining the whole thing to her or him I would be grabbing saying this lady cant breath help me... also If there is an emergency those people have to be on there toes

I remember a few flights I been on were one was a man who was swelling in his face...the flight attendant rolled her eyes as if the man was lying that his tongue was swelling and asked for help...thank god a doctor was on board or this man would have probably died.

ALSO the pilot why put her in first class and not make a quick stop to another airport or closest one?? GO FIRST CLASS!

The scary thing is the defib wont work if you have a weak heart...ACK that scares me to pieces

Gee, so what if there was a rapid decompresion? 100 people dead instead of one? :eek:

I'll put it this way. In that case if a 747 rapidly decompresses pressurization of the passenger areas at high passenger flight altitude, a lot of people will be dead any way cuz you gonna have trouble breathing in a free, flying convertible with the top down, cuz the passenger areas will have the top popped right off of that thing.

I've seen pictures of smaller airline jets that lossed pressurization. Turned it into a sorry looking flying, million dollar convertible.