Modern culture

Hello to all the people I knew before on this site! I'm not with anyone at the moment, and there are no love interests in older men either, I simply wanted to make a few observations.

Over the past year and more, every time a friend of mine has cracked a joke about a younger woman marrying an older man I have winced. Almost always, yes, shockingly, most people assume that the younger woman can't possibly have fallen in love with the older man, so she must be after his money, or she is simply looking for security, or stability. And the worst thing is, people make these kinds of crass judgements even when they’ve known one or other of the parties.

It's so strange because on the other hand romance novels are full of younger women falling for more mature men. Take Barbara Cartland - or is she a relic of another era? If so, why have perceptions changed so dramatically? In the romance genre, isn’t the man always portrayed as someone who is more wordly and thus older?

And actually, when it comes down to brass tacks, leaving age aside, pretty much every single unattached woman I know, however well qualified and financially secure, is looking for a man who is in a similar position. So why do people focus on this financial aspect as soon as the man is a fair bit older?

Well, here’s my two cents. I think that most people today can’t imagine why a younger woman could possibly find an older man attractive. In the past, a woman needed to secure her position in life through marriage, so an older man was not only acceptable but desirable. Today, women are much more independent so people tend to think that there is no need for a woman to have a much older partner. In fact, I hate to say it, but the jokes that fly around with people of my generation are all connected to the idea that a young woman could not find a man physically appealing.

I am not one of those people who serially like older men, not at all! I have found many men of my own generation very attractive, but every now and then, there are older men that I meet, who strike me as very appealing. I should add that I tend to mix on average with more people of my generation, which is why I say “now and then”. The point is, these men are appealing because they have lived and experienced so much. How can that not be appealing? And as for physical attributes, well isn’t beauty very much a subjective thing? Surely, when you love someone it is for who they are?

Unfortunately, as a younger woman I would now be very wary about forming an attachment with someone a fair bit older, without being financially independent. This is an honest response. I know a person should not worry about what other people think, but sorry, my self-respect is also important. And high-profile divorce cases like that of Paul McCartney and Heather Mills, simply add fuel to the popular perception fire.

I wonder how many other younger woman feel this way, and whether it makes them anxious about forming attachments with older men. What about older men, do you worry about any of this?

P-11! :runnningaround: :wavey: :Thud:

biggest, tightest, longest cyber hug ....... I've missed you sweetheart :rose:

Hey! Nice to see you Phoenix; this is Allyheart by the way:D

I used to worry about people's perception of my relationship with D but it doesn't bother me anymore. He happens to be wealthy and I happen to be from very humble beginnings, so to others, we fit the sugar daddy/ gold digger stereotype. To complicate matters even more, I study full-time and have only worked for three of the 8yrs we have been together, so automatically people assume that I'm with him for his money.

Just recently, I was at the nail technician and another customer who is also in an age gap relationship made very disparaging remarks about an age gap couple who only just celebrated their first wedding anniversary; the man 75 and the yw 30. She said," wow, she really hit the jackpot. I wish I could find one who has only about 10 or so years left before I get all the money! Talk about luck!" :eek:I was floored when she made the statement. I said why do you assume that the yw is with him for his money and she said "why else would she pick up a 75 year old man, certainly not to be his nurse?":eek:I was floored again. The bottom line is that once a man is significantly older than a woman and he happens to be wealthy people often conclude that the yw is a gold digger.

This yw in question made it clear that while she loves her om she wouldn't have given him a second glance if he weren't well-off. In other words, she loved his money long before she loved him. People like her will ensure that the stereotype continues to exists because indeed there are gold diggers out there and they make life hard for yw who happened to fall in love with their older partner because of his character.

I still get irked by such comments but it doesn't interfere with my relationship nor does it occupy my mind frequently. D knows why I am with him and that's all that matters. I've reached a point in my relationship where I don't give rat's behind what anyone thinks. "Those who matter don't mind and those who mind, don't matter!"

Well, I'm financially independent I suppose, I'm just really poor. And it's going to be that way for a while, at least until I'm out of school (another 5-6 years). If anyone who knows me thinks worse of me because of the age of someone I've chosen to be involved with, then I'd probably rather they didn't continue to know me. Strangers' opinions aren't even worth considering. And if I'm dating someone with nothing else going for them but money, I've got bigger problems than the opinions of other people.

The attraction issue is separate from the age issue, since people have funny-looking partners of all ages. It's quite often that I come across a couple and can't see for myself what the attraction is, but obviously there is one or they wouldn't be together. It's unfortunate that people jump to conclusions that they probably wouldn't otherwise just because one partner is a bit older than the other. And like goodchild said, sometimes that conclusion might be correct. I still don't really care because people can trade their lives for whatever they want to as long as they're not directly harming anyone else. I'm just happy I'm not them.

The attraction issue is separate from the age issue, since people have funny-looking partners of all ages. It's quite often that I come across a couple and can't see for myself what the attraction is, but obviously there is one or they wouldn't be together.


Lol! PP but this is so true! I'm a people watcher. Meaning I enjoy watching people and create stories about their lives or what they are thinking or dealing with at the particular time I'm watching them; to those who think this is weird:tongue2: Anyway, I'm always fascinated by the unlikely paring of couples. Sometimes you'll see a well dressed woman with a frumpy man and vice versa; a rigid woman or man with a very pleasant and fun loving woman; a strikingly beautiful woman and an ogre. I'm always fascinated by this and it's a constant reminder that beauty is in the eyes of the beholder and to each his own.
When people see D and I, I imagine they see a beautiful and articulate young woman with a distinguished and handsome older gentleman.:tongue2:;):bgrin2:

I can dream ok!

... What about older men, do you worry about any of this ...

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h51/gp_fillmore/whatmeworry.jpg

Thank you Phoenix for posting on this topic. This has always been an issue in the country that I live. If people see an OM and a YW together they automatically assume that she is with him for his money. When I am with my OM in public it makes me feel that is what they see when they see us together. They don't see the love that is always between us or the happiness he brings to my life. It always makes me a little self conscious I must admit. And then I have concerns that when we marry people will still think that way. But I do have dreams of my own career wise and when I finish my studies and establish myself I hope that will silence them all.

So many ugly concepts...
Dirty old man
Gold digger
Daddy issues
Trophy wife
Cougar
Boy toy
Sugar Daddy
Sugar Mommy
Oedipus complex

Sigh. :(

as a younger woman, i especially hate the "dirty old man" stereotype. i mean, if i think about having sex with an OM, what does that make me? (don't answer that)

i think it's sad our american culture pushes the images of young, sexy, thin, perfect women on everyone---then when an older man goes for one, he's considered dirty.

no offense to the OW on this board but i don't see too many older women as the face for merchandise in this country. the younger woman's image is expoited for every product imaginable, then society tells men "nope, you can't have them, unless your hunky or rich." AND THEN tells older women they can buy products to look like the YOUNGER women the OLDER MEN aren't supposed to have!!!!! WTF :confused:

i also hate the term "cougar" for older women who date younger men. that is the dumbest thing i have ever heard. uggghhh society's general views really piss me off sometimes :mad: that's why i come here :p the end.

OH man I agree I HATE IT!!I also hate being teased about being called a cradle robber! COME ON he is not in diapers!

Like i stalk preschools saying HEy you wanna cookie lil boy.

i think it's sad our american culture pushes the images of young, sexy, thin, perfect women on everyone---then when an older man goes for one, he's considered dirty.

no offense to the OW on this board but i don't see too many older women as the face for merchandise in this country. the younger woman's image is expoited for every product imaginable, then society tells men "nope, you can't have them, unless your hunky or rich." AND THEN tells older women they can buy products to look like the YOUNGER women the OLDER MEN aren't supposed to have!!!!! WTF :confused:

i also hate the term "cougar" for older women who date younger men. that is the dumbest thing i have ever heard. uggghhh society's general views really piss me off sometimes :mad: that's why i come here :p the end.

I absolutely agree with this!!!! I couldn't have put it better myself. I've said many times that it's almost exploitative of our culture to use young "swimsuit models" to sell everything from cars to vacations to airline tickets to older men, and then create a big scandal when they actually date someone young! Or for young early 20s professional women to use their sexual prowess on 50-year old executives to climb the company ladder and gain seniority and salary increases, when he would probably lose his job for actually dating her! We put 20-somethings at the front desk to attract male clients, and entertain them by taking them to lunch at Hooters, then act shocked and dismayed if someone that same age shows up at an event with a 25-year old in his arms. Tabloids write articles ripping "Woody Allen" types for their young love partners, then on the next page print ads for a skin cream to make women look 20 years younger! What kind of mixed signals does this send?

I also think it's wrong for men, indignant that their Y/L is not accepted, to go around attacking older women for dating young men. We're all in this thing together, and should all learn to accept one another. Happiness is an individual thing, and we should be individually entitled to seek it, as long as we obey the law and adhere to common sense ethics.

I think it's going to change, and may already be changing. People are going to begin to question why a society so loose and free about everything from living together out of wedlock to homosexual relationships is still stuck on age difference. A new generation will question the hypocrisy of their parents and attitudes about intergenerational relationships will change. I already see a big difference between now and the 1980's. A community like AgelessLove would never have existed then.

as a younger woman, i especially hate the "dirty old man" stereotype. i mean, if i think about having sex with an OM, what does that make me? (don't answer that)

i think it's sad our american culture pushes the images of young, sexy, thin, perfect women on everyone---then when an older man goes for one, he's considered dirty.

.

Its not just American culture that does this. Even here in the Caribbean this is a big issue. "Dirty old man" -I wonder if thats's what people think when they see my OM and I together. I look considerably younger than I am too which I think makes a "dirtier" impression. My mother once told me that you can't tell your heart who to love. I love this man, I love everything about him. He is my future, the man I want to share children with. Life is so short I find, I wish that society would start focusing on their own personal lives, living to make themselves happy rather than criticizing other people. When it comes down to it we are the ones that will be happy and they are the ones who will have led unfulfilled lives because they were too busy concerning themselves with our sordid, "dirty" lives.:tongue2:

The Dirty Old Man concept is prevalent in Central America too.

After hearing you YW, I have started wondering who has it harder? Us OW dating YM or you.

Apart from a few "Is this your son?" And a couple of boy-toy references from jealous exes, I have not had any real problems. My gfs think it is mainly for sex, and that does not bother me, I wink and smile, and go MMMMmmmmMMMM. People in the mall or grocery store do not look at us twice, despite the 21 yr gap and different races.

Maybe I have been lucky that my bf is from the US and the general attitude here about Americans is zero surprise about what Gringo Loco does. Or maybe we are used to the Pana-American couples. Who knows?

So you, YW, what do you think? do we have it worse or easier?

After hearing you YW, I have started wondering who has it harder? Us OW dating YM or you.
So you, YW, what do you think? do we have it worse or easier?
Maybe its the YW's developmental level that makes it more difficult for her to deal with the attitudes of people. For me it's knowing that people are watching us when we are together. Even if they are not, I feel that they are. When my OM grabs me for a quick kiss in elevators I even feel the eyes penetrating the steel. I know its not possible but it;s how I feel. When we are together I want to show him how much I love him, how much I desire him, but then I think about what people will think. :(
It's a constant worry on my mind, I don't know if other YW feel the same way or have similar experiences, it may be because I live in a close knit Caribbean country where everybody knows everything you are doing.

You being the OW may not feel any of the self consciousness because you know who you are, and you have reached that level of not caring, but what about the YM that you are with. Does he not have some of the issues to deal with that I just expressed? I would not be surprised if he did. It does not take any of the love or desire away, but it does make it more difficult to express it.:confused:

The Dirty Old Man concept is prevalent in Central America too.

After hearing you YW, I have started wondering who has it harder? Us OW dating YM or you.

Apart from a few "Is this your son?" And a couple of boy-toy references from jealous exes, I have not had any real problems. My gfs think it is mainly for sex, and that does not bother me, I wink and smile, and go MMMMmmmmMMMM. People in the mall or grocery store do not look at us twice, despite the 21 yr gap and different races.

Maybe I have been lucky that my bf is from the US and the general attitude here about Americans is zero surprise about what Gringo Loco does. Or maybe we are used to the Pana-American couples. Who knows?

So you, YW, what do you think? do we have it worse or easier?

I'm inclined to say ow/ym experience more discrimination but depending on the society in which one lives the experiences may differ. What yw/om and ow/ym relationships have in common is that people often do not see these relationships as having any real value. Our relationships aren't defined within the context of love, compatibility, shared joy and mutual happiness. In fact, age gap relationships are widely viewed as relationships of EXPLOITATION.

People feel comfortable joking about yw/om relationships since it has been around for centuries. It is expected that an older man will reach a mid life crisis and try to snag a yw. On the other hand OW/YM relationships are becoming more visible and people are just getting accustomed to this type of relationship so their reaction is usually one of shock. While people have seen examples of yw/om relationship being 'successful', the ow/ym relationship does not seem to have any longterm viability as they expect that the ym will eventually want a yw as he gets older.

I think ow/ym relationships have a harder time because it is new concept and people do not think such a relationship will work. Not that they think the yw/om relationship will be happy one, but women are perceived to be natural martyrs, nurturers and caretakers so they will sacrifice their own happiness for the sake of the relationship. Conversely, people believe that the ym will become bored very soon and he will have a much harder time putting his needs aside just to sustain the relationship; he will have a harder time restraining himself around yw as his ow ages.

Both HB and GC have great points.

And analyzing the two types of relationships OW/YM and YW/OM, I think that men in general tend to be less analytical, more pragmatic. In other words they are more likely to not give a fig about what other people think, specially other women. It is us women who worry more about what others think, both men and women, we worry about our looks and about how we look on the arm of XXX. Older women, then, have the advantage of more experience on not giving a fig.

Also, older women are more likely to use age-defying creams, dyeing hair, havig nips and tucks and botox to look younger, while older men depend on whatever looks nature gave them and what they can do at the gym.

Both HB and GC have great points.

Also, older women are more likely to use age-defying creams, dyeing hair, havig nips and tucks and botox to look younger, while older men depend on whatever looks nature gave them and what they can do at the gym.

Lol Sheila I agree with you there, men hate beautifying themselves unless they are metrosexual. My OM loves shopping for himself and for me, but he loves clothing and shoes. He does have nice, sexy hair though that is his personal pride. He brushes it so much when we are together (teasing smile-sorry J.R.)...
In the end the way we think are determined by our socialization and our cultures. You can bet our kids will be as all rounded as possible. They will have to be- They will gain my West Indian culture as well as his Canadian one.:bgrin2:

And analyzing the two types of relationships OW/YM and YW/OM, I think that men in general tend to be less analytical, more pragmatic. In other words they are more likely to not give a fig about what other people think, specially other women. It is us women who worry more about what others think, both men and women, we worry about our looks and about how we look on the arm of XXX. Older women, then, have the advantage of more experience on not giving a fig.

Also, older women are more likely to use age-defying creams, dyeing hair, havig nips and tucks and botox to look younger, while older men depend on whatever looks nature gave them and what they can do at the gym.

I couldn't agree more...although I know some older women who definitely give a fig about the issues you mentioned. I think it all boils down to the personality/confidence of the woman, not so much her age..but sure, age can certainly be a factor.

my DH doesn't care what anyone thinks of him and no matter how old, bald, or gray he gets he still thinks he's totally hot, lol...

I have to agree on the hot part...:o

http://a666.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/59/l_2c0c9d5694541924de0b9fb53bffaa59.jpg

My favorite older and younger man...:bgrin2:

I have to agree on the hot part...:o

http://a666.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/59/l_2c0c9d5694541924de0b9fb53bffaa59.jpg

My favorite older and younger man...:bgrin2:

I agree with you there. Your guys are both hot:D lol... You have a beautiful set of men there, esp the younger one...he is soo cute:bgrin2:

Hey everyone, thanks for contributing to this. It's nice to see all those familiar names, and a very special hello to George and Ally/goodchild.

It's great to see people from the other side of the board contributing too; it's all good food for thought, so many valid points raised. I honestly don't think that the OW has got an easier deal, but the whole confidence/learning to not care what other people think thing makes sense. I need to develop a thicker skin.

It's interesting that there are usually cultural differences between how societies in the developing world versus the developed world, form attachments. In my experience, the developing world is much more bound to traditional ways -- arranged marriaged or family introductions (though of course urban environments are more like the West. So, it's weird that the developed and developing world are no different when it comes to age gaps. The economic stigma or connotations of age gap relationships is, if anything, sometimes even more pronounced in developing countries - take Thailand or the Philippines.

Great talking to you all again. P-11

P.S. Love those photos George.

P.P.S. Very cute little one Amina.

Both HB and GC have great points.

And analyzing the two types of relationships OW/YM and YW/OM, I think that men in general tend to be less analytical, more pragmatic. In other words they are more likely to not give a fig about what other people think, specially other women. It is us women who worry more about what others think, both men and women, we worry about our looks and about how we look on the arm of XXX. Older women, then, have the advantage of more experience on not giving a fig.

Also, older women are more likely to use age-defying creams, dyeing hair, havig nips and tucks and botox to look younger, while older men depend on whatever looks nature gave them and what they can do at the gym.

WOW how true is this!
I now take care of my skin compared to when I was in my 30s!
I have facial peels cleansers you name it now!

I agree with you there. Your guys are both hot:D lol... You have a beautiful set of men there, esp the younger one...he is soo cute:bgrin2:

Very hot guys indeed!:cool:

Not that they think the yw/om relationship will be happy one, but women are perceived to be natural martyrs, nurturers and caretakers so they will sacrifice their own happiness for the sake of the relationship.

This itself is a stereotype. Who says that being with someone is "sacrificing your happiness for the sake of the other" just because of his age? Many younger people gravitate to older people to fulfill a variety of needs they may have, and some have a genuine taste for older people. Remember as well, there is also the "gold digger" stereotype of the woman who's with the much older man for his money. In that case one could say she's "exploiting" him, and she's viewed as far from a "martyr" or "caregiver" willing to sacrifice herself.

I think the advent of the web and the proliferation of international relationships is making age-gap become less visible and less frowned on, or at least will in the future. Society is becoming much more diversified. Social intolerance tends to be more of a problem in small, close-knit communities where everyone knows everyone and many of the people come from "the old school".

It's sad that you age gappers also have a hard time in Central America and the Caribbean. What a shame! I would have thought it to be less problematic over there. I can say that age-gap is less a problem in the Philippines where my wife comes from. Over there "marrying foreigners" is a big thing, and it's not unusual at all to see a young girl with a much older foreign husband. In fact, there was a time when girls were even taught that, if you're going to marry a foreigner, he should be older, established and able to provide for a family. Of course, there are sour grapes in every bunch. When I married my wife [I was 35], a woman about 45 - 50 who was a friend of the family said with a smirk, "She's very lucky to have you. Most of the girls here have their pen pals, but they're 50 or 60 years old".

It's sad that you age gappers also have a hard time in Central America and the Caribbean. What a shame! I would have thought it to be less problematic over there. .

I think that there was a time in the past years that age gap relationships were not frowned upon here in the Caribbean, that was in the days right after indentureship had ended for the East Indian immigrants and slavery had been long abolished. Then you were considered lucky to have captured the interest of a wise older man who could take care of you and share his experience of life with you. It's so strange that my culture does not frown upon arranged marriages, my aunt's marriage was arranged 22 years ago to a total stranger, but that they would frown on my age gap relationship. The emphasis placed on securing a man to be my husband here in the Caribbean by my grandparents is unbelievable. They still hold the opinion that after a certain age if you don't get married you are on the "shelf."
But when they think about either myself or my sister getting married it is in a traditional Hindu ceremony to a good Hindu boy. My sister fits that bill, but I never have, I have always been attracted to men from whom I can learn a new culture, gain exposure, learn different things. My OM is no Hindu boy and of course we will have to deal with opposition when we decide to get married, but I hope by then my parents will see how much we love each other.
I wish we were living in the movie "Memoirs of a Geisha" where Sayuri loved a man much older than she and it was considered normal and oh so romantic!
One day!:bgrin2:

It's sad that you age gappers also have a hard time in Central America and the Caribbean. What a shame! I would have thought it to be less problematic over there.
No, no, no. No difficulties for age gappers in Panama. :D Sorry if I wrote there are.

Strangers here are quite non-challant(?) (This is a Sunday word for me) Meaning they do not look twice at you at the mall or grocery store. No stares, no snickers. :no:

Stereotypes and labels suck. For the older women who love younger men (I'm married to one...20+ years my junior)....it's not about golddigging, it's "got to be about" sex or mommy-issues:mad: No kidding on the fact that there are some WAY weirder couples out there than those who just have an age dif, sheesh!

no offense to the OW on this board but i don't see too many older women as the face for merchandise in this country.

....until now:)

Dove Commercials, MORE Magazine, O Magazine, Christie Brinkley (52) for exercise equipment/clothes/products, etc.....that HOT 50 year old woman in a bikini for BowFlex.....

I think the advertising industry is changing for the better with a lot more REAL images/age Groups and sizes representing beauty these days...HOORAH FOR THAT! Except in pornography...that will always be the venue for fantasy-youth.

I think the advertising industry is changing for the better with a lot more REAL images/age Groups and sizes representing beauty these days...HOORAH FOR THAT! Except in pornography...that will always be the venue for fantasy-youth.


That is changing as well. I have porn channel at home (I watch more porn than D:tongue2:)and every Sunday night there is a MILF program. Not sure if MILF is considered derogatory or not, but at least the women don't necessarily look nipped and tucked.

Stereotypes and labels suck. For the older women who love younger men (I'm married to one...20+ years my junior)....it's not about golddigging, it's "got to be about" sex or mommy-issues:mad: No kidding on the fact that there are some WAY weirder couples out there than those who just have an age dif, sheesh!



....until now:)

Dove Commercials, MORE Magazine, O Magazine, Christie Brinkley (52) for exercise equipment/clothes/products, etc.....that HOT 50 year old woman in a bikini for BowFlex.....

I think the advertising industry is changing for the better with a lot more REAL images/age Groups and sizes representing beauty these days...HOORAH FOR THAT! Except in pornography...that will always be the venue for fantasy-youth.

Youre obviously unfamiliar with the and I swear its the name of a porn "Bust a Nut in Grandma's butt" part of the porn industry.lol I didnt believe it until Clint borrowed a video from a friend. yeah its porn which feature significantly older women with significantly younger men. Fetish for the younger man who likes older women and yes his friend is in a AGR. I guess the reverse would be the "lolita" porn which they have out there with the 18 year old girls with older men.

Sorry no Hijack meant. Ive been reading along, I like reading this side of the board. I use to be a yw/om now Im the Ow/ym but I feel for the issues that come up for all of you from time to time.

Doesn't Playboy pose older celebrities from time to time?

"Bust a Nut in Grandma's butt" .
Oh my what names they come up with!:eek:

My SO is almost 30 years older than me. We are a lawyer/doctor couple. He makes significantly more $$$ than me, but of course I do okay too (but I work for the gov't so I'm very "middle-class" income level, but he is better off).

I am with him because I love him and am very attracted to him, and we have a lot of common interests on many different levels. We are both intelligent, attractive, fit, and active people. (I will say, he is in remarkably good shape for someone his age...and is actually in better shape than even most of the 20 year old guys I know.)

I am definitely not gold digging...but, honestly, as a single mom I would never have dated a poor artist grad student, because I don't want to support a man!

That being said, HE wouldn't be dating a poor artist grad student either, because he doesn't want to be with a woman who is totally dependent financially on him, either. He has adult children who have obtained "varying degrees" of financial independence, so he probably doesn't want the major pressure of a woman who is totally dependent on him.

It is, admittedly, nice to be in a relationship with a man who can afford to go on vacations once in a while, etc. We don't splurge on extravagances, but we are comfortable and can have some fun sometimes.

While I think there is nothing inherently wrong with one person in a relationship providing the financial support, it certainly takes some pressure off if both of you are capable at least of making ends meet. It's good to have resources, as something can always happen to one partner.

I don't think age has anything to do with it. Obviously, there are some long term planning issues due to the age gap...financially and otherwise. But I promise you it is entirely possible to fall deeply in love with someone who is is much older.

As for what other people think...I was surprised at how well our friends and family have reacted to us. It helps that, despite our age gap, we are both financially independent, and well-educated adults...there is no "power disparity" or appearance that anyone may be being taken advantage of.

I think just as important if not more important than financial independance is emotional indepedance. Emotional independance for anyone is key. There is nobody "out there" that makes you happy, its a inside job. No, it, thing, stiff,pill or person can do that for you. A young woman much like any man or woman needs that first to be at peace and happy before they can be a part of an interdependent fullfilling relationship with someone. A young woman needs to know she can "make it" on her own, in order to build character, resolve and a " I can make it " attitude. Isnt that we are all suppoed to acheive? That can happen wheter she works at Starbucks or a high priced law firm.

Relationships for an age are hard enough, but to know you can fall back on yourself in any situation presented adds to a persons dynamics, alone or in a relationship.

I think just as important if not more important than financial independance is emotional indepedance. Emotional independance for anyone is key. There is nobody "out there" that makes you happy, its a inside job. No, it, thing, stiff,pill or person can do that for you. A young woman much like any man or woman needs that first to be at peace and happy before they can be a part of an interdependent fullfilling relationship with someone. A young woman needs to know she can "make it" on her own, in order to build character, resolve and a " I can make it " attitude. Isnt that we are all suppoed to acheive? That can happen wheter she works at Starbucks or a high priced law firm.

Relationships for an age are hard enough, but to know you can fall back on yourself in any situation presented adds to a persons dynamics, alone or in a relationship.

Brilliant post! This should be in the Tread carefully thread:yes:

Padre this is all true, but often a woman achieves that emotional independence when she has achieved the financial independence. I mean, that even if a woman later does depend on her husband, there is always the knowledge, based on real experience, that she can take care of herself if she wants. This gives her confidence, and the emotional independence.

It's like when we were teens, we needed to break away from the family (go to college or start working) in order to test our own boundaries. Financial integrity is definitely a very core way of achieving emotional integrity. By this I mean, the woman doesn't have to be rich, but she needs to be secure by knowing that she could always rely on her own resources if anything happened.

And the financial integrity, as hexentrix points out from own experience, also provides a shift in other people's perceptions of your relationship. It does make things easier on the younger woman. And then of course, to feel emotionally whole, no woman should ever feel a sense of indebtedness to a man.

I have a friend who fell in love with an older man (around 25 years older than her). She was making ends meet when she met him, but was doing a lot of crappy jobs, and it was a struggle. She genuinely fell in love with this man, and he offered to support her through her training to be an architect. It was an immense relief for her, and she accepted his help. Fast forward several years, my friend, now a qualified architect no longer has the same feelings for this man. It had nothing to do with age, but the usual frictions and disagreements which erode a relationship. She cares for this man, but she no longer feels as if she is in love. On the other hand, his business has gone down the tubes, and in a quite a reversal of fortune, she has been supporting him for the last couple of years. All of this would be fine, were it not for the fact she no longer feels that they really love each other. The relationship has become more like drudgery, but she feels very indebted to him.

You make some good point, Phoenix. It's sad about your friend's relationship.

One of the things that used to bug me to no end was when I would hear ".. I wouldn't mind dating a guy who buses tables, washes dishes, works at McDonald's, etc., if he's good looking and 'has it together'". "Yeah, Right!" I would think to myself. Emotional independence is needed, to be sure. But in this modern Western culture where everything is measured in terms of education, skills, job status and $$$, and where it costs a fortune to live on your own, people need to realize that these things are important as well.

I became interested in AG at a very young age partly for that very reason. I was a "starving artist" (not literally) until well into my 30s when I finally had the credentials to make it on my own, but I knew I wanted somebody young. I didn't want to rush through college just to marry a 22-year old at 24, but I also didn't want my dating choices limited by my age when I finally "made it".

I think just as important if not more important than financial independance is emotional indepedance. Emotional independance for anyone is key. There is nobody "out there" that makes you happy, its a inside job. No, it, thing, stiff,pill or person can do that for you. .
Here you have read my mind Mark. This is what I think, this is what I always tell people. you can never be truly happy in a relationship if you are not happy with and within yourself! If you can't be a "u" without the "us" then you are way too dependent and if you ever have to be on your own again it will be very difficult for you to get back on your feet. I love my personal space. I stress the importance of it in my relationships, just give me one day or an hour to be with myself, to just be and I will be great and feel even better!:bgrin2: