Processing feelings

The other day there was a thread about communication styles and processing feelings, and just today I was wondering when do you know that your feelings are final, that is, that they are fully processed.

When and how do you decide to communicate what you feel to the other person?

I am so confused. Lately I have been finding fault about things that he does, his hobbies, about his outlook in life, his driving, and about our communication and how we argue when we do. It seems that I put the good and the bad in a balance (and there is a lot of good too) but the bad ends up winning. We had a big fight last week. I did not ask him to leave like I used to do. We normally bounce back from fights, he has, but I have not. I feel like my heart broke for good. I wonder what has changed? What has he done to cause this? Why do I fail to recognize his good deeds, why don't I forgive him? And then I realize that he has not changed, that he has been the same practically since we met. Then I wonder, why have I changed? Am I getting more rigid? Am I getting spiritually older? Am I tired of yielding so much?

This is the first time that he has stayed here for so long (6 months), and I feel that I need for him to go back home for a while so I can process my feelings in peace.

I tried to tell him that we should go to a counsellor but he says NO. Should I go alone? Should I wait until this passes? I feel so dead inside.
He is planning to go back home in one month.

On top of everything, I have been eating like a cow, due to stress, gained 15 pounds and I feel unatractive.

So back to the title of this thread... how do I know that I will feel joy of this relationship again. How do I know if this is final. I am scared this will never be the same.

I know I have not given enough info for you guys to really know what is going on. I just needed to vent. :(

Hugs to you Sheila! I don't have an answer for you, but just wanted you to know that I'm in your corner!:bighug: I find that after a huge disagreement, I tend to have residual feelings until I've discussed the issue with D. in a non-confrontational manner.

You have to learn to live together without any breaks, as that's how you'll know if the relationship is worth it. All relationships go through highs and lows and sometimes you just feel like 'punching' or screaming at your partner but these feelings pass after a few days/weeks depending on the size of the disagreement.

If you think that you are "yielding" too much then this needs to be addressed and it's time you decide what you can live with and what you cannot live with.

Some questions to consider:
Are the things that annoy you important in the larger scheme of things? Are you proud of your partner? Do you respect him as an individual and as your partner? Would you leave your most prized possession in his care?

I do think that as we get older, we get tired of yielding. I don't think it is so much that we get "rigid". I think its that we know ourselves better, become more confident and more able to call bull ****, bull ****. I certainly can understand your feeling of needing to pull away and process your feelings. I am also doing a lot of processing these days as my moving date approaches. I think that is largely why I am posting less here. I need to think all my stuff through without worrying what others think...I need to be really clear with myself.

Here are a few thoughts that have come out of my own processing, for whatever its worth. I tend to want to do what you are doing, i.e. weighing the good against the bad, the pros vs the cons. In my case it isn't so much about my YM and whether he has more good qualities than bad, but more about whether I am risking more than I am going to gain with such a major life upheaval. The problem with taking this approach to analyzing our situations is that not all good points are equal to all bad points. You are never going to get things to balance. In my own situation my list of cons outnumbers my list of pros, but the pros have so much more personal value , the pros really win.

I think rather than focusing on all the things that are bugging you with him right now, you need to ask yourself what it was this time that kept you from kicking him out, as you have in the past. What seemed more positive this time that you didn't lose it? Despite all the things that bother you right now, it sounds like you are really learning how to get through conflict with him, so Sheila, you really are growing in this relationship, despite the problems. That's got to be a really weighty positive and must balance out several of those negatives.

I'm not trying to make light of any of the frustration you are feeling right now, just trying to point out that some kinds of processing, like trying to balance the good and the bad, are really sort of pointless. The more important thing is how you feel, and right now you feel crummy, no matter how many good points you can come up with. For that reason alone, I would go to therapy/counseling whether or not he goes with you. I think from what little you've said that if you felt happier, some of that joy you used to feel with him would resurface.

:bighug:

I would go to therapy alone since you commented about feeling dead inside. The time apart coupled with the therapy, I think, would be helpful.

Have you visited the doctor to ensure nothing physically is going on (hormones, thyroid, etc.)? Whenever I'm feeling down there is often a connection to how my body is processing things.

I don't think what you're feeling is uncommon in a relationship. I too find myself tired of yielding as well. As my relationship with Alex grows my tolerance for his BS shrinks. I consider him my lifelong partner and his actions will affect my quality of life so I have no desire to waste time with a slacker. Been there, done that, and got left unable to afford even the t-shirt. :D

There have been moments where I've been hanging on by a string (and I'm sure he can say the same) but we got through those moments stronger than we were going into it by believing and trusting in each other.

Have faith Shiela.

Thank you guys for your support.

I have kept thinking about this situation and I think there are several issues that affect my "mood".

I have been under a lot of stress, lack of sleep, my mom is ill.

But there are other issues that are basically a clash of core values. I have some values, he has others against mine. I think that sharing the same values kept my ex and I together for 19 years, even after the attraction was gone and the communication was nil.

I think I will go to counselling.

One thing that caught my eye was that you said he had been there for so long ( 6 months ) and you couldnt wait for him to go back home.

To me 6 months is not a long time at all, could it be that while you love him you just cant live with him that being around him for extended periods of time make you realize that the relationship is more comfortable for you with short moments of togetherness with breaks in between?

Could it be that all the together time has been too much and once you get a break from him, you can center yourself again and when next he visits you will be happy to see him again?

Could it be that because of the way you two have handle fights together before, ie; him leaving, that this has become the only way that you have learned to process a fight, with him not around? And now with him there right after a fight there's no way for you to reconcile the fights since he is there and you cant dismiss the fights as something that happened and unimportant when he is there as a constant reminder of the fight?

Hiya Sheila!
I do not want to sound harsh b/c I do feel all of your frustrations and have been there myself!
I completely agree with Rozie's post....esp the first line.
For a long time now, your relationship has been filled with highs and lows....yes I know your Latin lol...I am Italian so I can relate :eek:
Core values morals, and so on, are definitely things that I will NEVER compromise again.....it is painful, dramatic, and will, usually, never change.
Yes, hormones, stress, lack of sleep, can all be factors but I am going back and speaking about issues you two have had for years.
Therapy can help a lot but ONLY if you BOTH are willing and open to it.
Still, talking to someone for your own life and stressors will help you with your life and your decisions either way.
Much love, TD

One thing that caught my eye was that you said he had been there for so long ( 6 months ) and you couldnt wait for him to go back home.

To me 6 months is not a long time at all, could it be that while you love him you just cant live with him that being around him for extended periods of time make you realize that the relationship is more comfortable for you with short moments of togetherness with breaks in between?

Many things affect our time together:

I live in a very small 2 bedroom apartment, my son has his own bedroom, but we do not have our "own" space. We are both only children, and used to having our own bedroom. Even when I was married, my ex and I lived in a big house with plenty of space to have alone time.

We have different neatness levels.

When I met him he was (ocassionally) foul mouthed but back then, it did not bother me too much, English was a second language, it is like if you were hearing all day words that have no strength because they are foreign. Now that English is our household language things start to bother me more.

Anyways, I could go on and on. *Sigh*

Many things affect our time together:

I live in a very small 2 bedroom apartment, my son has his own bedroom, but we do not have our "own" space. We are both only children, and used to having our own bedroom. Even when I was married, my ex and I lived in a big house with plenty of space to have alone time.

We have different neatness levels.

When I met him he was (ocassionally) foul mouthed but back then, it did not bother me too much, English was a second language, it is like if you were hearing all day words that have no strength because they are foreign. Now that English is our household language things start to bother me more.

Anyways, I could go on and on. *Sigh*

Swearing is one of those things that I dont like either and Clint swears. He does make it a point to not swear around the kids and he has thankfully lessened his swearing around me but when he does swear it still offends and annoys me from time to time.

When it comes to neatness, Im the messy one and he's the neat freak so we have had to deal with that too.

I hope you two find some compromise and that you Shiela find some peace. I know how hard it can be.

So back to the title of this thread... how do I know that I will feel joy of this relationship again. How do I know if this is final. I am scared this will never be the same.

You will never know for certain unless you make a decision to try and have it not work out, or make the decision to bail and regret it. Unpleasant I know, but if we're being honest those are the two choices you're faced with.

There could be many reasons why suddenly your perspective of this relationship changed, but I think it's very likely you've reached the point where the initial chemistry and infatuation has worn off enough to allow you to see your relationship with this man more accurately - i.e. for what it truly is - imperfect with positives and negatives. For some people this point occurs early on in a relationship, others take much, much longer. The reasons why do not matter, but what does is the fact you've arrived at this point.

As long as you're making this decision with your mind, heart and experience(s) with this man evaluating such is perfectly normal - where most of us get into trouble is if our evaluation of "should I be here?" is heavily influenced by circumstances and things outside the relationship - i.e. depression, stress, time apart, long distances etc.

If you believe the latter to be the case, or at least possible, I would recommend professional help in finding that out. A good therapist can get you to the point of understanding degree of influence very quickly, typically a few visits, and that's what you'll need to be comfortable that you're being fair and reasonable to yourself, and him.

Obviously resolving depression/stress/related issues is more complicated and takes much longer, but gauging influence is fairly simple to the trained eye.

Based on my perception of you as a woman (through your postings here at Ageless) I think you are only "somewhat" being influenced by depression and stress in your evaluation of this relationship, much less than what I would consider "average". I base this on the many posts where you seem to be level-headed enough to evaluate your side, and other's side in most situations. People who unfortunately suffer extreme stress and depression, tend not to see another's side in anything, for they are drowning in their own misery. I do not see that with you...

But I'm an electrician, not a therapist, so you're welcome to take my advice with a grain of salt.

Finally I have time to re-read your posts, I was at work this morning:
Some questions to consider:
Are the things that annoy you important in the larger scheme of things? Are you proud of your partner? Do you respect him as an individual and as your partner? Would you leave your most prized possession in his care?
I think that the things that annoy me are important, mainly, our inability to have a civilized and reasoned discussion, his arrogance towards my country, and other things. Am I proud of him? Yes, I have seen him make progress to adapt to Panama, do a really good job in his business, but I want him to be more diligent. Do I respect him? Definitely yes. That is why I realize that it is "take it or leave it" with him. Would I leave my most prized possession in his care? No.

I do think that as we get older, we get tired of yielding. I don't think it is so much that we get "rigid". I think its that we know ourselves better, become more confident and more able to call bull ****, bull ****.

...what it was this time that kept you from kicking him out, as you have in the past. What seemed more positive this time that you didn't lose it? Despite all the things that bother you right now, it sounds like you are really learning how to get through conflict with him, so Sheila, you really are growing in this relationship, despite the problems.

... I would go to therapy/counseling whether or not he goes with you. I think from what little you've said that if you felt happier, some of that joy you used to feel with him would resurface.
I guess I am getting tired of the BS. What kept me from kicking him out was that it is quite pointless. I will do it if and only when I am 100% that it is over. My way of dealing with conflict now is to avoid conflict as much as possible. That is not necessarily good. I hope I will be able to go to counselling next week.

I would go to therapy alone since you commented about feeling dead inside. The time apart coupled with the therapy, I think, would be helpful.

I consider him my lifelong partner and his actions will affect my quality of life so I have no desire to waste time with a slacker. Been there, done that, and got left unable to afford even the t-shirt. :D

There have been moments where I've been hanging on by a string (and I'm sure he can say the same) but we got through those moments stronger than we were going into it by believing and trusting in each other.

Have faith Shiela.
I have problems considering him my lifelong partner. It is like if I was in a tunnel where I can only see a few feet in front of me, it is frustrating. I cannot see myself putting up with the way he is now. The other day we argued in a restaurant so I got up and left him. He was speaking loudly and I was getting embarrassed.

Hiya Sheila!
I completely agree with Rozie's post....esp the first line.
For a long time now, your relationship has been filled with highs and lows....yes I know your Latin lol...I am Italian so I can relate :eek:
Core values morals, and so on, are definitely things that I will NEVER compromise again.....it is painful, dramatic, and will, usually, never change.
Yes, hormones, stress, lack of sleep, can all be factors but I am going back and speaking about issues you two have had for years.
Therapy can help a lot but ONLY if you BOTH are willing and open to it.
Still, talking to someone for your own life and stressors will help you with your life and your decisions either way.
Much love, TD
I think you understand me a lot, I will go alone first but I also realize it will be moot if he does not go too.

...There could be many reasons why suddenly your perspective of this relationship changed, but I think it's very likely you've reached the point where the initial chemistry and infatuation has worn off enough to allow you to see your relationship with this man more accurately - i.e. for what it truly is - imperfect with positives and negatives.

As long as you're making this decision with your mind, heart and experience(s) with this man evaluating such is perfectly normal - where most of us get into trouble is if our evaluation of "should I be here?" is heavily influenced by circumstances and things outside the relationship - i.e. depression, stress, time apart, long distances etc.

If you believe the latter to be the case, or at least possible, I would recommend professional help in finding that out. A good therapist can get you to the point of understanding degree of influence very quickly, typically a few visits, and that's what you'll need to be comfortable that you're being fair and reasonable to yourself, and him.

Obviously resolving depression/stress/related issues is more complicated and takes much longer, but gauging influence is fairly simple to the trained eye.
...

But I'm an electrician, not a therapist, so you're welcome to take my advice with a grain of salt.
I do agree that infatuation worn off. I know the love has not worn off, but it is hurt. You nailed one thing I really need... to be fair and reasonable to myself and him.

And listen to your instincts; sometimes your "under self" can see things our "outer self" cannot and is trying to tell you something. That's how I deal with what I consider "instinct".

As goodchild pointed out about leaving your most prized possession in his care - if that level of trust is not there.........

You have to listen to your inner self and do what is true to you.

I'm praying for you, Sheila, in this time of uncertainty :bighug::bighug:

is "take it or leave it" with him. Would I leave my most prized possession in his care? No.

Can I ask why?

over. My way of dealing with conflict now is to avoid conflict as much as possible. That is not necessarily good. I hope I will be able to go to counselling next week.

Avoiding problems of any kind always allows them to fester and get worse. I'll give you a silly recent example...

I haven't mowed my lawn in 10 days - simply haven't made the time - now I have 8" tall grass which my mower will absolutely choke on - so I'll have to mow it in two passes.... 3" off the top, then another 3" on the second pass. So by waiting, I've doubled my work.

And no, I'm not implying you and he are grass :)

I do agree that infatuation worn off. I know the love has not worn off, but it is hurt. You nailed one thing I really need... to be fair and reasonable to myself and him.

I think because you're a deeply caring person, you'd regret making the decision immediately. Again, I'd find a therapist and see if you can gauge how much external things are influencing your perception of him and the relationship, THEN make a decision.

Because you cannot predict how you will feel post-decision (happy to be out, regret to be out - probably a little of both), waiting a few weeks or a month I don't think would be a bad thing.

Why?

Because it's obvious to everyone here that you truly love this man, even though that love is "hurt" at the moment...

Hey Sheila....sending you some buena vibra to see your path clearly, which often takes time and always takes patience but, it will come clear. As the Buddha said...the truth of a matter always rises to the surface. So you can trust that, even amidst the turmoil you now feel.

It's something I wonder about as my man and I think on making the move to live together. It's been an LDR with visits of increasing length...but to actually live together for a longer period of time, well how will we do? What will we discover about each other? what happens when there is no 'end of the visit' in sight cause now we are living together? When the initial stages of a relationship (i.e, infatuation) change/fade, we get to take a look at what's underneath the rush and excitement of the hormones and new love. It's another level of the relationship and that's where you are at..discovering your compatability on another level. And you are having questions/doubts. That's okay and healthy and part of the process, even if it feels frustrating and scary.

For me I always find that taking time for myself, by myself is important to sorting out how I feel about a situation. Not having much personal space in your shared home makes that difficult so maybe you need to find another way to get that space. Can you go away by yourself somewhere for a few days?

I agree that seeing a good therapist can be really helpful to getting perspective. His process may be different than yours, so 'expecting' him to also see a therapist or go for couple counselling may not be so helpful. It's inevitable that 2 people in a relationship (of any kind...be it lovers or friends) will, at different times, find themselves at different places in their personal growth as people. And that can be challenging but if each person is committed to working on the relationship (good communication, taking ownership for their feelings and their part etc) and being loving, respectful and kind....well, then however it turns out, it will be done in a good way.

Good luck and trust that it will come clear eventually......

Well guys, as an update. I am feeling much better in general. So I gather that part of my upsetness(new word) was stress-related. He is probably going to the US next weekend, he came up with this idea on his own... I wonder if he read this thread?:confused:

Anyways, I have to admit that he is improving, and I just have to be patient.

The reason I would not leave my most precious thing in his care is because he does not like responsibility. He will accept it, but not gladly.

Mariposa: We bought a cabin in the mountains that has all the room one may want. It will be a great place to escape to when we feel cramped in the apartment.

Glad to hear things seem a little brighter. The cabin is an awesome idea. About arguing being pointless...it really isn't. I've written endlessly about my failed marriage and what I regret more than anything is that we never argued. I also thought it was pointless, so I sucked up everything that was bothering me until, one day, I just couldn't do it anymore. Like you have entertained, the day I felt like arguing, I was finished with the marriage. He feels like this came out of the blue, that I was dishonest with him. I think there were signs everywhere!! It was obvious to everyone but him and my parents, that the marriage was in deep trouble, but we didn't argue. Arguing means that at least on some level you are trying to communicate...not all a bad thing.

Glad to hear things seem a little brighter. The cabin is an awesome idea. About arguing being pointless...it really isn't. I've written endlessly about my failed marriage and what I regret more than anything is that we never argued. I also thought it was pointless, so I sucked up everything that was bothering me until, one day, I just couldn't do it anymore. Like you have entertained, the day I felt like arguing, I was finished with the marriage. He feels like this came out of the blue, that I was dishonest with him. I think there were signs everywhere!! It was obvious to everyone but him and my parents, that the marriage was in deep trouble, but we didn't argue. Arguing means that at least on some level you are trying to communicate...not all a bad thing.
I used to believe in communication as a way to solve things but both my ex and my bf get deffensive-aggresive in the first half minute of any argument.
With my bf, the problem with our arguments is that he goes nuclear too soon and all intelligent dialogue ends. Think Tourettes (sp?) syndrome. Sigh.

So I end up hurt and wanting to end it all. Then he thinks things over and moves (a bit) in the direction I asked him to. But the cost is high because resentment builds up due to the mistreatment.

Another update. He is still in Panama, he will stay here until mid July. I am going to a counsellor tomorrow. She said she wants to talk to both of us in the first meeting, but he has expressed reluctance. Last time we went to a counsellor she spoke limited English, so he wants to make sure this one speaks good English.

Has anyone have any experience with counselors and do they work? They did not work in my marriage. :(

Has anyone have any experience with counselors and do they work? They did not work in my marriage. :(

Yes a counselor can work - if you both want it to. If you are both willing to work through the issues, then a counselor can be extremely helpful in helping you do that. Nothing can work if both of you aren't wanting things to be "fixed" - if one or both of you are just there to go through the motions or ONLY to "please" the other person. If he is willing to go, and sounds like he is if his issue was just with language barriers, then I think you have a good shot of it working. Sometimes you just need to find the right counselor for you, so go with your gut when you meet this one, if you don't feel comfortable opening up or it just doesn't feel right it's okay to find another.

Good luck :)

Sheila how did I miss this post BAH..
HUGS TO YOU! I would go alone if he wont go. I went to therapy and I can tell you that it was a BLESSING. I had so much pent of BS from the past that I now feel like a HUGE burden is gone.

I hope your diong better!!

HUGS HUGS HUGS!
meri

This was an interesting therapy. I have a very good feeling for the counsellor. I went alone but my bf will be joining me next week. She speaks perfect English. :)

This was an interesting therapy. I have a very good feeling for the counsellor. I went alone but my bf will be joining me next week. She speaks perfect English. :)

OH thats WONDERFUL news!! Please let us know how it is going for you both on that. It is great your going and I am PROUD OF YOU!:yes:

This was an interesting therapy. I have a very good feeling for the counsellor. I went alone but my bf will be joining me next week. She speaks perfect English. :)

That's great...I'm hoping for the best wishing you both lots of luck and pray this works out for you.

Thank you GG and JJ. :)

I'm glad that your counselor seems like a good match for both of you!

Yes me too Sheila...glad that you feel good about the counsellor. That makes a big difference. Though I've not ever had couple counselling I've got experience in seeing therapists/counsellors myself over the years and it's been totally worth it because of the help I've received to do the healing, make the changes etc that I needed. Good luck with this.

The processing of feelings continue. Now, with the help of the counsellor. She rocks. Even if I only went to one session, she gave me enough food for thought so that I could continue processing my feelings under a perspective that puts value on me, which is always my problem... no self-worth.

Soooo, I have decided that I am ending the relationship unless things improve in the next 20 days, when he is scheduled to return to the US. Only 3 things need to improve, which I wont cover here, so as you can imagine they are major. The leaving clothes on the floor, or not making the bed, or other minor stuff is not incuded. I do not demand perfection.

The sad thing is that we love each other a lot, but love cannot conquer all.

So, I am practicing for loneliness, because at this point I would be surprised if he does what he is supposed to do. Can you practice for loneliness and heartbreak? :confused::(

Sheila, I'm sorry for what is happening, but I am really glad that you are going to counseling. It will definitely help you get through whatever develops.

Are the two of you communicating about the major issues and do both of you want to make it work? I think that if you both want to have a healthy, happy relationship, and if he does make a good effort, maybe you not be so set on the 20 day thing...? Twenty days is not a very long time to correct major issues, but it IS enough time to see if there is hope...

:bighug:

Take care

sheila...*H*

Are the two of you communicating about the major issues and do both of you want to make it work? I think that if you both want to have a healthy, happy relationship, and if he does make a good effort, maybe you not be so set on the 20 day thing...? Twenty days is not a very long time to correct major issues, but it IS enough time to see if there is hope...

I have communicated to him about these issues, and he just ignores me. He does not think they are issues. Which is very convenient for him. My hope is that the counsellor will make him understand why they are issues, and why HE (and in second place I) will be benefited by solving them.

Other problems we had in the past we have solved. But not these 3.

We have an apointment on tuesday. Let's see what happens.

Thank you and Christina for the hugs... I need them.

I have communicated to him about these issues, and he just ignores me. He does not think they are issues. Which is very convenient for him. My hope is that the counsellor will make him understand why they are issues, and why HE (and in second place I) will be benefited by solving them.

I'm not taking his side when I say this, and instead sharing an observation I've made over the years.

For some, there is a "problem" when they get the slightest wiff of smoke. For others, there is only a "problem" when the house bursts into flames and the roof caves in.

Most of us are in the middle somewhere, and depending on the issue we might move away from middle towards one of the two extremes - it all depends on how we feel that issue and how much it "rings home" in a sense.

Again, not taking his (or your) side, just offering a possible explaination why you see this issue clear as day, yet he doesn't appreciate it to the same degree.

I'm so sorry. Your relationship with your bf is one of the first stories I read when I got here and the one that I've followed for the last 2 years. It's so sad, I hate seeing things turn out like this but I'm sure you know better than I do what is best for the both of you and what you have to do.

I wish you both all the best and hope he steps up and does what ever you want to make this work.

Lots of *hugs* your way lovie!

The processing of feelings continue. Now, with the help of the counsellor. She rocks. Even if I only went to one session, she gave me enough food for thought so that I could continue processing my feelings under a perspective that puts value on me, which is always my problem... no self-worth.

Soooo, I have decided that I am ending the relationship unless things improve in the next 20 days, when he is scheduled to return to the US. Only 3 things need to improve, which I wont cover here, so as you can imagine they are major. The leaving clothes on the floor, or not making the bed, or other minor stuff is not incuded. I do not demand perfection.

The sad thing is that we love each other a lot, but love cannot conquer all.

So, I am practicing for loneliness, because at this point I would be surprised if he does what he is supposed to do. Can you practice for loneliness and heartbreak? :confused::(


Big hugs to you Sheila! You two are such wonderful people and having seeing you together there is definitely something special between you two. I also believe that twenty days is not a long enough period to assess real change or effort. What about three to six months? Or is it a case where you've already made up your mind and just want to rip the band aid off? If the latter is the case then that is ok because you are in the situation and knows best.

Don't hesitate to send me an email anytime if you want to talk. I'm your friend and I'm here whenever you need me.

Lots of positive thoughts coming your way. :bighug:

Shelia cuanto lo siento! :( Just sending you good vibes! May God guide you in doing what is good FOR you and please take care of YOUR needs!

I always say it, love does NOT conquer it all...

May you find peace.

I am praying that the counsellor gets through in ways I have not been able to get to. I see that he has been making progress in so many other areas that it would be a pity to break up because of a few areas that are critical. :(

He is learning Spanish, he is not afraid to drive anymore, he is learning the streets, he is controlling his anger a bit more when we argue. All signs of progress.

When my ex husband and I were having difficulties I felt we needed counseling for the second time in our marriage. I called a therapist friend of mine to see who she would recommend. Our first crack at therapy, when I simply selected someone from the phone book, was horrible!! She recommended a gentleman who she felt did well with men who had trouble opening up and talking. Many men are uncomfortable with the whole idea of talking about themselves and their lives. She also said that successful therapy wasn't necessarily about saving a relationship. I thought that was really wise. My ex really liked this therapist and once we had decided to separate, we each continued to see him separately.

My point is you don't have to practice being alone. If you get to that point, that same therapist is going to assist you in making it through that transition.
Also, don't start writing off the effect of therapy on your YM before it even starts. I have to say my ex really did improve some of his communications skills. It didn't fix our relationship, but I truly believe he benefitted as much as an individual as I did. He remarried about a month ago...I would have never imagined he would be able to start up a new relationship because he was so socially phobic.

It's so hard, these things of the heart, of love. I'm learning lots right now (being my own therapist these days....) about loving myself in order to let someone else love me. Not saying this is the case for you but I hear you saying you have gotten some guidance about how to proceed with things based on valuing yourself and your own self worth. This is a good thing and so I'm happy for you about that. When it comes to loving others, well, sometimes leaving them or letting them go is the most loving expression of all,even if it breaks the heart. For that moment. Who knows what lies around the next corner? Perhaps this is what he needs in order to make the changes he needs to... maybe not. It sounds like you have a bottom line and that's a good thing too. You know what you need in this relationship and you are not afraid to ask for it.

I wish you lots of clarity and openness to find your way. :bighug:

Can you practice for loneliness and heartbreak? :confused::(

Loneliness and heartbreak are really expressions of the love that exists rather than the separation from it. The big love exists regardless of whether we are alone or with someone....having someone to express that big love with is a bonus and a really lovely thing to experience in this lifetime, but not having someone to do that with intimately (and I'm not talking about intimacy = sex but its much broader/deeper definition) doesn't mean we are not still 'in love'. I think its a human tendency to attach loving expression to an intimate partner and to reach for it, want it, think that's the only way to have or experience it. But ultimately, even if we love someone and are with them all the rest of the days of our life, eventually one of us dies and we have to let go and feel the pain of that 'loneliness and heartbreak'. So I do think we can practice for that moment, however it comes, by letting go in each moment realizing that everything changes always, impermanence is a state of life and it doesn't diminish the love we feel in any way at all.

Hmmmm....my morning ramblings may not make sense to anyone else but me .....but this is what came out when I read your question....as I have been pondering these things of love and life for a little while now....

Sheila....I am glad that you feel comfortable with your therapist.
Work on you and what you want out of life....either he will grow with you or he won't!
This last line that you wrote bothers me though....

"He is learning Spanish, he is not afraid to drive anymore, he is learning the streets, he is controlling his anger a bit more when we argue. All signs of progress."

It sounds like your talking about a sullen child and, imo, even if he did learn his way......it will still, probably, be years down the road.
Love is really not enough....to me it is the laughter and smiles that will get two people through the tough times.
Just me.
I wish you all the smiles you can find!
Blessings, TD

Mariposa and TD, both of you have given me good insights. I think that in the end I will let go. I have the feeling that either he does not believe me or he does not care. He will meet the therapist tomorrow.

Good luck tomorrow sweets. I hope that everything works out and that you both find the right answer to this.

Sheila...just thinking about you and wondering how it all went yesterday.

I think things went real well yesterday. He came with me to therapy and although not that convinced about its values, at least he opened up and I think we made progress.

Lets wait and see how things go.

I am hopeful.

I think things went real well yesterday. He came with me to therapy and although not that convinced about its values, at least he opened up and I think we made progress.

Lets wait and see how things go.

I am hopeful.


Sheila: I am hopeful for you, but remember its sometimes two steps forward and one back....patience, therapy is not a majic bullet.

Blessings, Jann

Just got caught up on your thread. Just want you to know that I'm thinking of you and praying that everything turns out the way that you want it to.

I admire your strength and for not being afraid to express what you need.

:bighug:

thank you, Zap and Whiterose.

Regarding the therapy. I felt that I had to focus it in a way... because, after all, one knows one's issues more than a stranger (the counsellor). She wanted to focus on the way we argue rather than on the reasons we argue about. It is like trying to lower a fever without treating the disease. :rolleyes:

Anyways, after a raised eyebrow because of the age difference and a slight hint about me being a "mother" and not a "wife". I think that she got the picture and gave us good advise.

I am still hoping that it works, because as Zap said, two steps forward, one step back... and patience is not my strong suit.

Any new updates on the situation?

me too, I've been thinking of you Sheila and this situation and wondering how you are doing and how it's going....

Ok, here comes the update. :)

During this period the whole family except my son and the cat has had health problems. My bf, my mom, my dad, mom's dogs and myself have been sick in various degrees with my dad and bf still under the weather. Nothing serious, but I have been kept busy.

My therapist left on vacation so I have not seen her again.

And my bf is leaving next Tuesday for Indiana, supposedly for a month. He is leaving with a one-way ticket.

Things with him have been up and down. I have considered/and discussed with him, the options... from 1.) permanent break-up, to 2.) back to LDR (which worked great at the time), to 3.) one more chance at living together (conditioned). So we chose number 3. During this time he has to prove to me that he is serious about operating his own business in Panama. He has to make progress in a business proposal, and define his procedures. This is the crux of the matter. So we are saying goodbye with hopes for his return, but I am not 100% sure that will happen. Time will tell.

I'm glad you went with option 3. I hope he returns and this little vacation opens his eyes and makes him see what he could be losing.

I hope he returns and gets things together and does all that you want him to and the both of you are happy together forever!

I'm wishing you all the best.

I'm glad you went with option 3. I hope he returns and this little vacation opens his eyes and makes him see what he could be losing.

I hope he returns and gets things together and does all that you want him to and the both of you are happy together forever!

I'm wishing you all the best.
Thank you for your good wishes, hugs hugs my friend Jenny.

I wish you all the best as well. I pray that you will get the outcome that you want and deserve.

Sorry to hear about all the health problems. :(

I have missed your posts and am sorry that you are experiencing a rough time in your relationship. I'm thankful you both agreed to give it one more chance and I have faith that things will work out as intended. You have set the guidelines and placed it into God's hands. You are in good keeping Sheila.

I will pray for comfort and clarity for both of you.

:bighug:

Another update...
My poor bf had emergency oral surgery today. One of his wisdom teeth was growing horizontally and pushed other teeth causing pain and an absces. He had to have root canal and a surgical extraction so difficult it took several hours and involved stitches. They allowed me to stay with him for the first part of the procedure, to interpret (the doctor did not speak English) so there I was holding his hand. In Panama, dentists do not put you to sleep with gas. They just give you Novocaine shot after novocaine shot so you are awake and alert but not in too much pain.

After surgery I took him home with instructions to give him two shots, one of antibiotics and another, a painkiller. He was in so much pain because by the time I got home his Novocaine had worn out. :eek: I was so nervous, both driving him, and giving him his shots (I was trained to give intra-muscular shots). We both end up crying. :(

He is asleep now. I hope he is ok to travel on Tuesday. :prayer:

Aw poor guy. And kudos to you, I'm not sure I would have had the stomach to be able to stand there (when I got all four of my wisdom teeth removed, I wouldn't let the oral surgeon tell me too much about it - I was like I know you're taking them out, just do it, I don't wanna know!)

Best thing that helped me was LOTS of crushed up popsicles ... don't suck or chew, just hold the icy bits in your mouth. Keeps swelling down. :)

Oh, and don't try eating fat-free chocolate Jello pudding on a mostly empty stomach filled with only painkillers. *shivers*

Another update...
My poor bf had emergency oral surgery today. One of his wisdom teeth was growing horizontally and pushed other teeth causing pain and an absces.

:


I wish your bf all the best. You should buy tea tree oil for him. It is very good for wound healing and éxcellent for killing bacteria. I use it instead of mouth wash when I am traveling, and I also put it on wound (minor cuts).
I have used it for years. I have even done comparisons when I had two cuts (chopping up fruits for jam with newly sharpened knives :D ) and a cut with tea tree oil applied healed faster than the one without tea tree oil.

The only thing is that it should never come near the eyes!

Thank you guys for your good advice. Today he has woken up in a horrible mood :mad: because he is hungry. He is tired of ice cream. What is your experience about when did you eat warm food again?

I don't know how quickly - in terms of time - but I usually eat it very quicky again. Maybe even the next day, after dental surgery, as long as the food is easy to chew. Maybe I only make it lukewarm for starters.

The most important thing is to clean and desinfect everything after eating (tea tree oil).
Since I love cooking, it is somehow difficult for me to keep my hands off food :D.

Aww that is painful. Poor guy. Keep up with the meds and he should be OK and make sure he takes the painkillers on time to keep up on the pain. Once you miss one dose you're behind and it's a killer trying to catch back up. Just let him rest and be moody and mean (he must be in hell right now).

I hope that everything is OK and that he is OK to fly by Tuesday.

be moody and mean
...I hope that everything is OK and that he is OK to fly by Tuesday.

He was moody and mean but not for long. And yes, he is leaving on Tuesday, he is much better now.

That's good I'm glad to hear it. I hope that you have a good last day together and everything works out perfect for you both!

I'll be thinking and sending good wishes your way for the next month! :bighug:

I hope this time apart helps the two of you get some perspective.

Hugs, and I'm thinking of you. I'm glad you survived the dental work.:D

He is now gone. I miss him but I am also happy to have the bed and the computer all to myself. :bgrin2:

Last night, unfortunately was not a happy night and our farewell was not as loving as always. He was upset we could not have a nice supper because of his dental work. He was also upset that I would not take him to the airport at 4:30 a.m. because I had to work today and I could not be all sleepy. He had to take a shuttle cab, which is really nice, but he wanted me. I was upset because he started packing at 2:00 am, so he woke me up with all the noise. Sigh...

I will call him tonight to make sure he made it home OK, and after that I plan to leave him some space and stay away from chat and phone.

I'm sorry the farewell wasn't the way you planned but hopefully time apart will be a good thing for both of you and space does good.

Enjoy your computer time and comfy bed and your month of space and free time and I'm still hoping that it all works out for you both in the end...

best wishes :bighug:

Hey Sheila,

Sorry to hear of the problems. I hope the time away gives you both some breathing space to figure out what's best for both of you.

How are you doing today Sheila?

Sheila cuanto lo siento! :(

Where are you at on the relationship, is it over, how are you feeling?

May you have all the wisdom! Hang on...

I think this is becoming a blog! LOL.

He got to Indiana fine if two hours late thanks to AA.

I have talked to him twice. He says all the right things, that he misses me and that he loves me. I miss him too. He also told me that he will be returning to Panama in 6 weeks instead of one month. He seems to want to watch a Colts football game with his dad that will happen in September. :confused:

I miss him a lot, but I am sure that I will get used to his absence. Today I enjoyed going to the mall and buying a couple things.

I have been very busy with work.

I think that this will be a difficult time, because it will be a time to wait and see if he does what he has to do while he is there. :(

Maybe a few extra weeks is a good thing.

It gives you a little more time to think things through and get some extra space. He is saying all the right things and I think its best that the both of you make the BEST out of what ever time apart you have.

It will make his return that much more special and exciting!

Sheila, am glad he made it home alright.
Enjoy your alone time, your son, and get out with your friends a few times a week!
{{{hugs}}}