So, he wants children after all....

We've been talking regularly again for about 3 months now, but neither of us are sure what we want. And, while we slowly talk about what happened, and us, and what we want going forward, it's been very revealing. In many ways, I feel I am reliving so many threads about OW/YM topics that I've read over the years here at ageless.

I learned not too long ago that his opinion about wanting children has changed since we met. When we first met, he told me that he didn't care if we didn't have any children. Good thing because I was 45 at the time, and was three years post-op from having a hysterectomy. We did discuss the possibility of re-evaluating the issue and I did agree to consider adoption in the event we both decided that we wanted children.

He was 26 and I knew that there was a possibility that his feelings about children could change over the years. But, after that it was not discussed again and I was really surprised recently when he told me that one of his dreams is to have a family. I asked does that include children? And he said yes. I said, "would grandchildren do?" and he answered that he would really like to have a child to carry on his name. So, that means having a child, whether his own or to adopt.

Needless to say, learning this information has thrown me for a loop. Especially considering we are taking things slow and trying to figure out what we both want from each other in the future.

Part of me thinks I should just cut my losses and give up entirely. I can't have children and in fact, am at a point in my life where I don't think I'd have the energy to take care of another one. I just got through keeping my 23 month old granddaughter for 4 days and I am drained. How can I consider trying to raise a child in my 50's?? I just don't think it would be fair to the child or to me. Yet, I can't fully commit to saying no completely.

I'm stuck and not sure exactly what I should do. I am trying to take this one day at a time. I have no expectations. But, to me, this seems a bit of a deal breaker. He wants a child and deserves to have that chance. He will be 32 this fall. He still has time ahead of him. But, why waste time even considering a relationship with me with so many uncertainties about children? Yet, how do we break this connection that is so strong and neither of us can seem to break?

I'm not the kind to ask for advice, but I am definitely interested in hearing how others in this situation have dealt with this situation.

OH hun, that is one of my fears. I KNOW I do not want to adopt or to raise a child when I am almost 50. The only thing that crosses through my head sometimes is to convince him to be a sperm donor. :confused: But I do not know if that is the issue anyways.

I definitely KNOW that I do not want to get married to my bf at present and to me that would be a pre-requisite to having/adopting a child.

What about adopting an older child, like a 7 or 8 yr old? I could perhaps accept that.

what thoughts/ideas does he have to resolve the child/ren issue?

Good question Chris but......Kat.....do you REALLY want to raise more children????
This should be about what YOU want and what YOU need!
I love you lady!
J

Well, Chris, that would be easier to answer if he knew what he wanted at the moment for "us." But, he is confused about how he feels, yet he acknowledges that that there are feelings there. What type, he doesn't know anymore. I think that the time and distance have played a huge role in what has happened to us, in addition to all the stress he has been under in his life. So, at the moment, I don't think he really has a solution because first he has to decide what he wants from "us."

But, this whole issue weighs on my mind because I wonder if I am wasting not just my time, but his.

And, TD, I really don't know what I want. Like Sheila says, marriage is a prerequisite. Well it's not just a prerequisite -- a stable, happy marriage is a prerequisite for me. And, I don't know yet if we'll get there. With my health issues, I really have to be able to trust that if I bring another child into my life, I can trust the marriage to last to help raise the child as I head towards my elderly years. No, 60's not elderly, but I can't guarantee I'll be around to raise the child. So, I'd want guarantee that my husband is in it for the long run. He's just too unsure at the moment.

I don't know how to explain this connection that we have. I know how I feel about him. We still remain connected, we flirt, we care about each other, but will we ever end up together? I don't know. I won't know anything really until he figures out what he wants. He is questioning what he feels, yet doesn't want to say goodbye.

But, this whole issue of children is making me wonder if I should just go ahead and release him so he can find someone who definitely knows they want to raise children.

*sigh*
follow...where it has to go....
you haven't walked away in all this time...don't walk away now katrina.... remember, no "what if's" the road has been unbelievable long and hard...but you have made it to "here", you will make it to "there".

start fresh in all of this...a new beginning. your eyes now see differently as do his... let him lead, let him work out what he wants/needs... then see if it meets who you are now.

don't let the child/ren be an issue when it is still unclear of the journey...

Chris, you are an amazing woman. :) Great advice. Matter of fact, the approach we have been taking is exactly that -- a fresh new start. But, I guess I saw this as new information that I now needed to consider and I was pretty flabbergasted. It was one of my worst fears all along.

But, you are right. I do need to just let things happen. I sure have no reason to rush things. It's been a very long journey so far and one that I can walk for a little while longer while he sorts things out.

*H*
trust the journey...

even if it is different then what we hope/dream for....it is what we need.
lessons, valuable experiences...life... all creating who we are.

First, let me say Kat that I am happy that you brought this question to the forum. I have worried that you have been taking this journey all by yourself.

I am 54 and my YM is 29. I guess I can say that I've completed menopause, because I haven't had a period in over a year. I've been blessed in that I don't have any major health problems. I think that would make an incredible difference in how we would look at this issue.

Right now my YM is not sure whether he ever wants children, but recognizing that this can be a deal breaker, I have remained open to the notion. We have talked about surrogacy and I actually have a dear (much younger) friend who shocked us by volunteering to carry our child. Its something that we have talked about extensively and she and her husband are also talking about seriously. I would likely use donor eggs or, God willing and all the planets aligned right, eggs from a niece. Right now there are no concrete plans and certainly no time table. We have yet to actually live together...first things first. But thinking about this and discussing this are a prerequisite to our living together, because neither of us wants this to be a deal breaker.

Things change and so could my health. To that end my YM concedes that if and when he decides he wants a children, I'm not able, then he may not be able to have what he wants. He's great that way, in that he doesn't believe that life owes you everything you want. The flip side is that I wouldn't be opposed to having some live in help if we can afford it and it helps it to happen. I'm more of the mind set that if you want something you can't have easily, but you really want, then you get creative and figure out a unique way to make it happen. I know many families where Grandma is raising a second generation, so I don't think our thinking is that far out.

I think for you what you really have to ask is whether children are something that you want. Do you want them for you, or do you want them for him so that you guys can progress as a couple? If the answer to both is "no", then I think you need to figure out how to bring this relationship to some sort of peaceful closure. I wouldn't be able to move ahead in my relationship simply hoping that he decides he never wants kids...its way too tenuous a deal. I think if I had grandchildren or the promise of grandchildren, I wouldn't be as open to the possibility of another child. I'm really trying to see this from the position you are in.

If you love him and feel that he is the right man for you, don't let him play that child card without at least countering it with this argument: In a creative, committed relationship, there are ways it can happen.

Well I'm just turned 40 but I worry about this too. I do not want anymore children (okay I say I do when I'm on my period *dumb hormones*, but I do NOT really). It is a painful and true age gap issue.

I have nothing insightful to say that is encouraging or non negative to this situation, I feel that you are in a way asking for hope and since I do not have that to give, (for me this is one of the big deal breakers), I would like to say that I am sorry that you are going through this and that my thoughts and wishes of strength are with you.

Good luck.

I haven't been in the same situation as you but I could be, one day...my YM is 26 and I"m 49 (together 2 1/2 yrs in an LDR with visits together during this time) and though he says that he doesn't think about having children nor ever has, he certainly might one day and that would change things for us big time as I know I do NOT want anymore children. He's coming to visit me this summer and we will be talking more seriously about our future together--do we continue? do we live together? whose country etc and will likely include, again the question of children. I've read many here give advice that if he thinks the YM might want children in the future, then it's better to end things before getting deeper into the relationship...but that's a hard thing to do when you love someone and they love you just as much back. This is one of the times I get down about the age gap and wish I was younger or he was older!!! All I can say is I wish you well on this journey. Stay open to the moment and trust that the way to proceed will show itself to you both.

i never had children and i don't regret it much. i'm also post-hysterectomy. there are millions of children on this ailing planet without loving parents. i think adoption would be a wonderful choice. otherwise, if you really love him, you will let him go to live his life and you will bless him on his journey.
peace to you in this time of worry.

Actually Strwbrries, I'm really not asking for hope. You see, we've been through so much that I long ago stopped being hopeful. What I was looking for when I started this thread was to hear how other OW have handled this dilemma when they were actually faced with it.

The subject of children is always a possibility for us OW who find themselves paired with a younger man. And quite often, younger men who thought they knew exactly what they wanted changed their opinions as they are entitled to do. I just happened upon this information recently and I'm processing it, not knowing at all what the next steps are or even what I want.

In our case, there are many unknown factors. First of all, whether we will even truly reunite as a couple, so I know I am putting the cart before the horse, but I feel this is one issue that has to be considered as we both move forward with making a decision.

There's also my health and whether the upcoming treatment options for my rheumatoid arthritis will actually result in improvement in my quality of life. If they do, then everything could change and perhaps my decision could be clearer. I absolutely adore being a mommy. But, I also am a realist and I know that my health has declined to the point where I am barely able to take care of my daughter who is 14 and I have no guarantees about the future of my disease. Hell, I'm a nurse and I am learning more and more about rheumatoid arthritis every day. I just learned that patients with RA have a 25% high incidence of heart disease. Great. :rolleyes:

But, then there's my age. I don't really see how I can afford to put a child through college when I am going to be at retirement age. And of course, if we were to marry and things didn't work out, or if he died before I did, then I would most likely be completely responsible for raising the child, just as I have done my other two children -- all alone. I know that grandparents are raising children these days, but I don't know if I can handle that with everything going on with my health.

And then if something happened to both of us, then who would be responsible for the child? My other children? I'm not sure that's fair to them.

All along I've told him that if he decided he wanted a child, I would be willing to consider adoption or surrogacy. But, now that I'm faced with the reality of the situation, I'm not so sure anymore.

When you love your partner and want their happiness, it's easy to say that we will do whatever we can to make them happy. But, we're talking about the life of a child here and I have to consider this in great detail as we go with the flow of what is happening between us.

Whatever happens, we both have a huge decision to make that can affect the lives of many people.

And then always there in the middle of things is the love that I feel. I've had to already say goodbye to him once. And even though we've broken up and haven't yet committed to a reconciliation, the thought of him being gone permanently from my life is just too much to think about right now.

Thank you to everyone for your loving words of support. This has really knocked the wind out of me at a time when I didn't think I could handle one more thing. It's almost 3 am here now and here I am, not able to sleep because this is weighing on my mind.

I just wanted to pop in and read the thread and say thanks. You are amazing people. I appreciate all your comments.

I'm sorry you're having this struggle.

I am not able to bear more children, period. I had a very thorough tubal ligation after two or three miscarriages and two high risk pregnancies, after which I experienced post-partum depression that developed into severe depressive episodes.

If I were to become pregnant again, I would more than likely miscarry. The pregnancy would be another high-risk pregnancy, which puts my life and the child's life at risk. It is almost a certainty that I would develop PPD again as well as become a Type II diabetic. If I experience another depressive episode, no matter what triggers it, there is a good chance that I would not recover. Diabetes isn't pretty, either--I like my vision and my lower extremities.

No man who loves me would want me to risk that much. If he did, he'd be making it pretty clear that what he really loves are my reproductive organs...in which case, he can go find another woman whom he is able to love wholly, rather than in bits and pieces. Or someone who's satisfied to lie back and crank out his offspring.

So, when people ask, "What if you meet someone and he wants children? Will you have your tubal reversed?" I reply with, "Just because I have all my parts, lay eggs and have a period doesn't mean it's a good idea for me to go out and get knocked up." I figure if they're going to be insensitive, I get to be crude.

We take it for granted that we'll all be able to produce children, but in truth parenthood is not a "given." Does your YM know for sure that he is fertile? Maybe it's a moot point.

It is a painful and true age gap issue.

Yes it is.

I sit in a very cheap seat Katrina but for what it's worth I would offer the same advice as Christina. You've gone this far and I agree it's worth taking more steps that will lead you to 'there'.

Neither of you are saying "no more" even though you both have more than enough excuses to bow out.

My heart goes out to you and Remi.

It's pretty obvious you two have a bond. And that whatever journey this is, that you're walking together, isn't over.

This is one of those, "let's see what life has in store" times.

Isn't life wierd sometimes?

Best wishes Katrina.

Thanks Angel and Bella.

When you love your partner and want their happiness, it's easy to say that we will do whatever we can to make them happy. But, we're talking about the life of a child here and I have to consider this in great detail as we go with the flow of what is happening between us.

You are right. You are talking about the life of a child and that's a precious and important aspect to this decision. But honestly, you have friends, a family and a community. I don't give a second thought to that argument "What if something should happen to one of us?" because just as with same age couples, you are not alone and don't have to raise a child by yourselves. I think the bottom line is "What do you want?"

Health is a huge factor here, but darn it, you don't have to do it alone. If its something you want and you know you want it, let others know and let them help you in your quest. Kat, any child of yours is going to be loved and adored and cared for by a whole lotta people!!

:grouphug: <-----Kat's family (inside there is a little one being squished to death!)

I hear ya Rozie, but see... I've raised both my children alone. I really have no one else other than my son now who has a family of his own. My mother is 72. I have only one brother who lives nearby and he is busy working 2 jobs to support his two. My other 2 remaining brothers live long distance from me. I truly don't have anyone to help me out in the event something happens. Not family anyway, other than my son. And I just couldn't impose on him.

But, I do appreciate the words of encouragement and the big hug. :)

Actually Strwbrries, I'm really not asking for hope. You see, we've been through so much that I long ago stopped being hopeful. What I was looking for when I started this thread was to hear how other OW have handled this dilemma when they were actually faced with it

''''''''
And then if something happened to both of us, then who would be responsible for the child? My other children? I'm not sure that's fair to them.


Ok, as long as this isnt a search for hope I can answer honestly. Im going to talk about the negative aspects of having a baby, we all know the great parts but people rarely talk about the negative parts as if it's taboo...so some background first.

I had planned on not having anymore children after I had J. When I started dating Clint, he was very upfront with what he wanted, he wanted a child of his own, his own meaning biologically, he was opposed to adopting a child, he wanted one of his own blood, not to carry on his name but a child that he could pass on his genes to. I had to think long and hard about that because while Im fertile, it would mean raising a small child and being older. Having babies in my 20's was hard enough what would having a baby in my 30's mean?

I decided that his desire for a child was no less important than a woman's desire for a baby. I was not going to diminish his desire for a child by comparing his love for a baby with his love for me. To me those two things are incomparable... and I love my kids, I would not love another child any less. We knew we would have to have one quickly and we ended up pregnant not on purpose but it was not an unwelcomed pregnancy.

Flash to the present...Savannah is 14 months old....

Im only 35 but Im tired all the time, it is harder raising a baby the second time around, it's also easier. I know what to expect, I know all the tricks but it is starting over all over again. Im for the most part healthy and it is still hard on me, physically. My shoulders are achy at the end of the day from carrying her, my lower back starts to hurt from bending all the time to pick her up and sleep is a memory. Showering by myself and those leisure moments of reading are gone. I am constantly on the go running after her, and baby proofing the house is laughable because my child has learned to get around baby proof drawers, she climbs, plays and I am constantly in a mad dash to take things out of her mouth or pull her off of a chair. When I lay down to go to sleep it is with the knowledge that I will be getting up sometime during the night to nurse her. If Im sick forget it about it, my being sick doesnt matter, I still have to run after her, take care of her, feed her. In other words, Im a mom lol.

You need to think long and hard about adopting a baby because the personal changes are huge. The disruption in your life, is huge also.

Would I do it again? Certainly. Would I do it if I was past 40, which for me is my personal cut off age. No. If it's this hard in my 30's, no way would I do it in my 40's.

So that's my perspective for you on what having a baby in your life again might mean for you.

Is that something you can do? more importantly is it something that you are willing to do?

As for him, he says he wants a child to carry on his name. I see people suggest adoption but is that acceptable to him? Or does he want a child of his own blood?

As for who will be around should you pass, or should he pass...Im not a big believer in handing off responsibility to older siblings. Of course, they love their younger sibling and would raise that child, but it isnt fair.

I have cousins who had to raise their adopted sister when my aunt died at 58. I had to raise two younger siblings at 19 for a number of years...we raise them willingly and out of love but we had to give up our own lives for a number a years in order to do so.

You two have loved each other for a very long time, you both have let go for the most part but are still connected, that understandable it's been a long time. If you cannot see yourself taking an infant into your life and he cannot see not having a child of his own, that love I hope can endure in a strong and loving friendship for the both of you.

I know, this post is not very supportive and I feel sad writing it, I hope you take it with intent that was intended; helpful.

It's just my perspective. :(

Don't be silly, Ruby! I thought it was a great post. :) But, as I read it, I had flashbacks to when I had my second child at age 35. :D I appreciate you sharing your experience, but I've been where you are now so I know what you mean exactly. The difference now is that I'm 50, and I could be a couple of years older by the time we'd bring a child into our lives, which is MUCH MORE challenging now for me than at age 35, especially since I have much greater health issues now than I did then.

As far as him wanting a natural child vs adoption, at the moment he doesn't seem to have a strong preference either way. He just wants someone to carry on his name.

I think he has every right to feel this way. After all, I felt the same way when I first started to want my own children.

I do love him enough to give him this gift. But, I'm also practical and know all the challenges that would face me.

People keep saying I have to do what I want to do. Of course, I know that. The problem is, I don't know what I want. I thought I did, but like his opinion changed as he got older, so did mine. And that's my quandry and why I started this thread -- to hear from other women who just weren't so sure they really wanted to raise another child. I want to know how they worked through their uncertainty and ultimately, what happened to their relationship.

By the way, I've been asked in PM why I am suddenly posting this issue. I'm bringing it up now because it's a new situation. I only recently learned (like within the past 2 weeks) that his opinion has changed and that he would like to have a child or children. And I am still processing this information.

Thanks everyone for your advice and for sharing your personal viewpoints and experiences. I appreciate it.

I met my YM when I was 41 and he was 27. At the time I wanted to have a child and my YM said that we had to look at everything from a "team" perspective. We were together, we shared everything, so the decision to have a child had to be acceptable for the both of us, since as a team, raising a child is a shared responsibility. That said, he told me that he had no problem with having a child and would do whatever it took to get me pregnant.

Our decision to go ahead with our plan came to a shattering halt when I was told that I had to have an emergency hysterectomy -- total, instant menopause, no chance of ever having children. Again, my YM said that life doesn't always turn out the way we want it to so he didn't have a problem not having children. We talked about adoption, and we both agreed that if we decide to have children in the future, we would happily adopt.

The point here is that we were in agreement. As a team, we had to find ways to work out our challenges so that as a couple, we would both be happy and successful.

I don't know if this helps at all, but it worked for us. So as a couple, what would make you both happy? If he wants a child and you're not up to it but have the child for him anyway, will you both be happy? If you don't have a child and he can't deal with it, is he really willing to walk away and would that satisfy both of your needs?

The "idea" of having a child can be very romantic. Give him some time. Perhaps, as he thinks things through, he'll see a picture of the two of you together and work around that picture to help the both of you find a solution.

I hope his decision is to share a happy life with you.

the average romanian makes $600 a month. can a person afford a child on that kind of salary? could he get a living wage job in the united states? this whole thing looks unaffordable.

If we get back together and get back on track with our plans to be together permanently, he would be moving here and no doubt he could get a job here. Besides, I make good money, so that's not an issue.

If not, and he stays there, then yeah, I'm sure he could manage on that amount each month, although certainly he wouldn't be considered wealthy by any means. But, the Romanian people are resilient and the manage to raise their children despite such a low average income level. In fact, if you go there, you would be surprised at how well dressed they are considering the average income level.

I have learned alot from my own recent and current experience with Adam, I realized he is 28, sounds dumb but it is true, he can be and is bigger than life sometimes but at the end of the day, he is 28 and I am now 49.

As much as he is 28, I am 49. Although I am playful and it may appear that I behave like a kid (it is mostly a coping skill and a playfulness I show in life) I am very serious and take care of my family, he is also very responsible but that also has been a coping skill for his life and his choices, but he has never "really" taken care of another person.

I think there is NO guarantee of the life with the happy wife and kid, sometimes it happens, sometimes it is not in the cards. I am old enough to not hang my hat on that, if there is real love between two people.

So what the heck am i saying? I am saying one day we may have to make a decision if we can fully accept where the other person is in life. That means accepting the indecision of a younger person, the process of developing and finding their own truths while hoping they accept that we may have found ours.

Honestly, I see much merit to the long term relationships of ym/ow, once the couple decide's to settle to the daily life of a regular couple relationship.

It is getting to that point that may be the journey.

But here in lies the catch, EVERY relationship has its challenges, it really is the bond between the two people that will weigh out in the end for the relationship to survive.

Sometimes growing spurts in relationships hurt a bit, but it is also a time for us to come to acceptance and move forward.

I hope the best for you, Whiterose.

but unhappily it turned out to be a deal-breaker, after a 6 year emotional investment. My heart aches for you whiterose. I wish I could give you a really positive, insightful, and reassuring answer, but I cannot, based strictly on my own experience.

If he is already talking about having a family, even if he is still wavering, this will surely become a huge issue at some point, if not soon, then at some point in the future when you are heavily emotionally invested. I haven't been keeping up with your situation, but how old is he now? If he's in his 30s, and he's just recently started discussing this with you, it could just be that he has the biological urge to have a child, without regard for how difficult that job may be. You women who have children can certainly appreciate how difficult and fraught with challenges raising a child can be. And the job NEVER ends. Once you're a mother, you're always a mother, whether your child is 6 months old, 6 years old, or 26 years old, or older.

As I said, I wish I could be positive and encouraging, but it is devastating when you are cast aside simply because he doesn't consider you the right age to have his biological child. Trust me on this one....it's truly a shattering experience. Although in hindsight (it's been 18 months since the final goodbye), I have sometimes thought that the "having a baby" issue was a red-herring and just a really convenient excuse to find someone his own age.

As other posters have said, maybe you should just enjoy the journey, wherever it leads and however it unfolds. Perhaps he will change his mind, perhaps he's just "testing the water", perhaps love will prevail. My very best wishes for you as you work through this.

I could live pretty well in Romania, Bulgaria, etc... on just social security lol!
And....maybe I will one day ;)

the average romanian makes $600 a month. can a person afford a child on that kind of salary? could he get a living wage job in the united states? this whole thing looks unaffordable.

People raise children every day with low income. There are people here on this site raising families that don't make much money and they still do it.

You don't have to be rich to have kids, and raise them. It helps but it's doable with a low income.

Kat, you love him and no matter what is said....you love him lol!
I wouldn't be "Jodey" if I didn't add my 2 cents though....
Do you think that b/c of the time, distance, inner turmoil on his part, and what have you, that he is pulling the "dealbreaker" card?
I am so in love with my "D" and have learned to love him for exactly who his redneck, underachieving, pain in the butt, self that he is :rolleyes:
Who knows, I may always love him but I will be damned if I do not live my life as best I can as a 48 year old single woman and mother.
If we end up together that'd be cool but if we do not, I may still love him but will probably find another partner to "dance" through life with and be just as content (hopefully).....maybe even more-so.....who knows.
Inner turmoil is too much for my life and if I am feeling that way too often, I need to find some way to get rid of it or I will become too depressed and we BOTH know how much that helps our physical challenges:(;)
Love, J

I don't think so, TD. I know that he's always wanted a family. We've both known that from day 1. But, for so long "family" to him meant me and my children. Now that is changing.

I think he's just going through an adjustment period in his life where he is coming out from the wreckage of what has happened in his life the past 4 years. And now he is thinking about what he wants and what is important. I think that's all it is. He isn't the kind to play games.

Kat, I don't think Remi's a game player....your too smart and you've known him too long.
I am more wondering about what you TRULY want out of your life and if he is subconciously trying to allow you to "get on with it".
I know he is a wonderful, smart, and loving man...why? B/c I know you;)
Love is always important and I do believe you two will love each other, in some ways, forever.
Am more worried about your day to day life going on in this moment.
Love, J

Oh, I see what you are saying now, TD. I don't think that's the case either. Because he had the perfect opportunity for us to go our separate ways when we stopped talking to each other a few months ago. But, HE was the one who broke the silence and couldn't stay away. So, that theory just doesn't make sense.

I do think he's confused about what he wants or feels with me. I think part of him wants to be with me, but part of him is also seeing this opportunity to consider all the options. Despite how I feel about him, I'm where he is. I love him, but I have to evaluate if this is what I want for the rest of my life, too.

So, bottom line... he and I are both a couple of confused people who have deep feelings for each other, don't know what we want out it, but one of us wants children, and the other one isn't so sure about that. *sigh*

We are a mess. :p

katrina.... don't stress over it... focus on you, your health, your beautiful moments in life....and KNOW that the journey with remi WILL work out exactly how it is meant to be....

i get a sense he is just expressing "ideas"...that nothing is in stone...

(((HUG)))

What a hard subject Kat. It sucks to face it on either side of the fence.

I'm on the other side of it. I want kids (not now...but perhaps in the future) but Alec doesn't.

I've found that in a relationship...the person who doesn't want kids always trumps the person who does. Then the person who does has to figure out if they can live with that or if they can't.

It's a hard journey. I agree with those who say ride it out...see what happens.

Nadine.

I think everyone of us as the older woman has this fear.........though they say they do not want kids in the beginning, there's always that possibility of them changing their minds and hearts about children......

you have many years invested in your relationship with Remi......take one moment at a time and cherish what it is for now......try not to look into the future so much......I feel he is doing a lot of thinking but he has not shut you off from his world........your love for each oother will carry you through.....you are bonded by your love and friendship for one another first....and there's nothing more beautiful then that.......

love
sora

I'm basing my response on the original post. I don't know anything about this relationship (or lack thereof) except what I've read today, so if I've missed something, please forgive me.

My 2 cents worth is this---we can fall in love with anyone. The catch is falling in love with someone who shares our same viewpoints, wishes, dreams and morality. Generally speaking, that's why we date. Dating gives us an opportunity to get to know someone so we can evaluate if he/she would make a good partner.

Sounds like the two of you were together at some point and somewhere along the way, you found out that he wanted children of his own. I think this is a deal breaker for you. You mentioned health problems and age (good reasons not to have another child in my opinion) and the fact that you just don't want to start over again. Totally understandable.

Since this appears to be a dealbreaker for you, it's up to you to end the relationship. This may not be the relationship you had in the past, but it is a relationship, regardless of what the label is at the moment. You're both emotionally involved.

You mentioned that he changed his mind, but it's him who sparked up the relationship again. This isn't a reason to keep it going. He has drawn his line in the sand. If you're not willing to meet him there ie: have children then you have to lay your cards on the table and let him know there's no reason to continue the relationship.

I really think continuing on this path will lead to nothing but a lot of heartbreak. In my opinion, it might be a better idea to have a relationship with someone more stable who knows what he wants and understands where YOU stand. If you don't end this relationship, you'll sit around stewing over the "ifs" until you have no more desire or energy to get out there and meet someone more suited for you.

I'm really sorry for your situation. I hope everything resolves itself soon.

My 2 cents worth is this---we can fall in love with anyone. The catch is falling in love with someone who shares our same viewpoints, wishes, dreams and morality.

I can only relate to this dilemma all too well, but from the other end. When I was in my mid-20s, I had long relationship with H, who was just a year older than me. I had a very sheltered childhood and I could only see myself with children in the future. H, however, did NOT want to have children, we came from different cultures, different upbringings, different language, different everything. We still loved each other very deeply.

Since this appears to be a dealbreaker for you, it's up to you to end the relationship.

Of course, when I was 26, H not wanting to have children didn't bother me too much. H kept saying that at some point we'd be ready to have them. Well years passed and he still wasn't ready for children. At that point, I was starting to feel cheated, and one day I realized that H would never consider me as "the" mother of his children. I left the next day after 8 years of living together.

I spent six months in tears trying to heal, but I think what hurted the most was that feeling of being robbed of something, especially when I learned that he was having a baby with a girl that shared his same upbringing, same culture, same language, same everything. I don't think H planned it that way, it just happened like that, but I realized that when there are irreconciliable differences, it's better to let go sooner rather than later.

Just as a note, I never saw H after the day I left him. Never tried, didn't want to. A common friend however, mentioned that he and the girl splitted just a few months after the child was born, so I guess I can consider myself lucky after all.

I don't know what advice to give you, maybe only that in spite of all the past you have shared, you should try to think in practical terms. I know, easier said than done.

Actually Strwbrries, I'm really not asking for hope. You see, we've been through so much that I long ago stopped being hopeful.

Um, Kat, honey, I know you wanted to focus on the whole pregnancy thread here, how OW/YM handle the issue but this is also ultimately about your relationship with Remi and whether or not it's there or not anymore and I think that quote answers the question. Do you really want a relationship of any sort with somebody where you've stopped being hopeful? There has to be SOME sort of hope - there are expectations that we all place on relationships, whether real or imagined, that fulfill a need in our lives. This man has not met your needs and that's wrong. You deserve somebody that will allow you hope, that will fulfill your needs and enjoy your grandbaby(ies). There's a long road here and a baby is just another deal breaker after a lot of other deals have been broken. You deserve better, Kat, you're a very sweet lady and you deserve somebody willing to be with you, here and now, somebody willing to go the extra mile for you, somebody who loves you just for you and fulfills your needs and gives you hope and love. The two go hand in hand in my book. Without hope there's little to nothing to work with.

Warning! Brief Hijack! :hijacked:

I had a looong conversation with my Mormon sister yesterday. What a wonderful soul. Of all my family members, she is the one who really seems to understand the best about why I am drawn to my YM and why this relationship has to go forward. I had this thread on my mind and so I tenderly broached the subject of surrogacy and the possibility of using eggs from one of my nieces, one of whom is her daughter. Of course this would something that I would have to ask of my niece herself, but I was just testing the waters.

My sister paused for a moment then answered that it was funny that I had brought this up, because she and her husband had been talking about this issue the day before. Not talking about me, but about a mother and daughter they know, where the mom is going to be a surrogate for her daughter. In this conversation, my sister had told her husband that if she could, she would have no qualms about carrying a child for her own daughter. Then she went on to say that if she felt that way, it really wasn't such a stretch to consider me using her daughters eggs. Then we laughed about "borrowing eggs" because that was the unfortunate way I had phrased my question. She asked if I was going to "return" them. To which I replied "Maybe in those teen years!"

Rozie, what a great sister you have!
Kat, could this be, with all that you've been through, more about holding on b/c you do not have the energy or self esteem to get back out there?
If it is.....I am here to tell you that since you've been on this site, from you very first post, your heart and "energy" showed through in rainbow colors and I do not feel that way about people very often.
YOU, my dear lady, are quite a catch and don't you dare forget that!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks, TD. :)

No, my situation with Remi is not about not wanting to "get out there" or feeling reluctant. That's not a problem for me. I hope no one thinks that's why I have remained in this relationship for so long.

I appreciate the fact that some want to analyze my relationship with Remi (I know you all mean well), but frankly, no one knows our situation better than us. And I didn't start the thread to try to analyze "us."

This thread is about me trying to decide how the issue of children is going to influence my decision in the event that Remi and I get back together. That's all this is. Pretty simple.

""""This thread is about me trying to decide how the issue of children is going to influence my decision in the event that Remi and I get back together. That's all this is. Pretty simple.""""


well, pointing up....
pretty simple, if you and remi do get back together he knows you can not have his child. so it becomes a non issue. he stated he wanted biological. i feel katrina, if he is looking at these issues now, but still contacted you, seems your "pull" is stronger.
this is a case where you be still/quiet and let him battle his issues.

Sorry I didn't make it more clear in the first post. He wants a child to carry on his name, but he has indicated that he would be fine with either adoption or to have his own. If he insists on having his own, and we do decide to get married after all, then the only option for this would be through surrogacy. But, he is definitely open to adoption. The question is, and has always been since I learned this news, is how I would feel about having another child and I just don't know.

:grouphug:
Katrina.... honey....I am familiar with that feeling in your stomach when you are faced with a decision or uncertainty that is this hard. I have no wisdom to offer, just support and encouragement to seek peace about it. I've found over the years that if there isn't real peace about a decision I'm faced with, it is not right for me.

YOU are a wonderful, giving, kind, strong woman....I trust that God will make things clear for you.

Praying for you and Remi.....

Wow Rozie...tell your sister to talk to her bishop first as the church does not encourage surroacy. But of cause the decision is hers.

And W/R...my heart goes out to you. two years ago I was dating a guy who although a wonderful and giving ym, he too decided he wanted children. I had just had my hysterectomy so it was not going to happen and I had always said that if I reach 40, I would not consider having a child anymore. He has since met someone, they have 2 kids and although we sometimes run into each other and still gaze at each other lovingly, I know that I'm glad he's had the opportunity to have those children as is his right. Some said to think about what YOU want, this isn't just about you. Your a partnership of sorts, you have to consider what is in the interest of a child place in both of your care as you are both responsible for it.

Its not easy having a child at 50 and adoption agencies are going to look at your health problems and make a decision base on your health and age.

And as for him coming back to you, you've been together so long, he's comfortable being with you, why would he not, you're friends, just not sure if its a viable relationship now. And if you do adopt and he comes here, how easy is it for him to leave all he knows behind to live with you. He may think is easy, but its not. And a child is not going to give him back all that he's left behind. It would not be fair to have a child with a "job" already.

You're health issues are more important and they're not going to be resolve over night. As much as you two love each other, its not always easy to move forward when two people are not on the same page.

I think he's just going through an adjustment period in his life where he is coming out from the wreckage of what has happened in his life the past 4 years.

And what if he's not...what if he's seeing his life invested in a woman in the states who although he loves, life with her means, illness, aging, certainly death at someone point and coming to the US means being alone should something happen to you. Its one thing when both partners are of the same age and see their history moving side by side, but when one partner is quite a few years ahead, you don't really see it until you've actually going through it and then it hits ya.

You both deserve so much more than just sitting in limbo. No one wants to make a decision and both of yous living in pain. Your journey doesn't have to be this hard...it is a learning experience being with a ym, but I don't always believe its a guarantee to happily ever after once the word "child" works itself through. Do ow really feel the need to have children in their 50s, what will it prove and will that guarantee anything?

Paris

I want more kids, I always wanted to, but my first husband who was abusive and it was either be beat to a pulp or tie them..so I got them tied.
Had I known THAT he would continue the beatings..then I would have said no to it.

Kai has been amazing we will either find a way for me to do it OR adopt.
Many women my age and even older are getting pregnant through untying tubes , invetro OR adoption...I dont care how I just want another child.
Even a special needs child. My neice and nephew are special needs and I had them for over 4 years...I missed that. It would not bother me ONE bit.

BUT this is OUR choice...IF you do not want one ..then DONT but if he wants one one day YOU have to decide.

ITS TOUGH:(:(:(

I know that some younger men do not want their own and they do not care if it is thru adoption..Kai told me ..if we do we do or dont we dont its okay...I however want one BAD

Quick note to Rozie,

I have an Aunt who is 6 years older than I am who could not "keep" a pregnancy. We didnt know what the problem was only that she was childless, I offered up my eggs, I wasnt sure if that was her problem but if she needed eggs then she was welcomed to mine. My mother however had a problem with it, she didnt want one of grandchildren raised as one her nieces or nephews. In the end , it turned out my Aunt's eggs were fine, she just couldnt stay pregnant, at this point I and one other cousin bowed out. Since there was no way I could carry a baby and give it up, my sister however, decided that carrying baby for my Aunt was something that she could do. It was the hardest journey that I ever saw my sister go through and she did experience a great loss when she had to hand that baby over afterwards but she always says that she would do it again because it was worth it. My mother had a HUGE problem with it, because she knew what it would do to my sister.

I guess my point is, that family dynamics are affected greatly afterwards, my sister, her husband, their children, our siblings, our mother and our children all of us had the experience of watching my sister be pregnant, no baby showers, and no baby to welcome into our family unit, instead we watched my sister mourn. I see this little cousin once a year on christmas. I know that my Aunt wants one more, but my sister will not be volunteering, nor will any other cousin or relative.

Donating eggs are one thing, If my Aunt had carried one of my eggs or one of my cousins it wouldnt have been a big deal, but if it's surrogacy, keep it outside of the family.


I apoligize for the hijack,

In regards to this thread, my question would be what would be in the best interest of the child? I have a lot of friends whose parents were well into their 60's and 70's when they were in their teens. I went to a lot of funerals in my late teens and early 20's and some of my friends were left minues one parent, the other half whose parents are still around are now caring for their elderly parents and their kids, while they are in their 30's, as one friend said "I didnt think I was going to have to do this in my 30's, at least if you get to do this with your mom your kids will be grown, mine are still little." Poor thing was having a hard time of it, and had to base her future decision on having MORE KIDS on whether or not her dad was still going to be alive and living with them. She was having a hard time caring for him with 2 kids and as much as she wanted a 3rd baby there was no way she could take care of him, 2 toddlers and a baby.

I guess for me at least the question is what is best for Remy, What is best for whiterose and more importantly what is best for the baby?

Kat, honey... you know I will always support you with regard to *him* and where the two of you go in your relationship. So take anything I say of value and hang onto it and throw the rest out with the dishwater.

After reading this, my recommendation is to love him (you always will) but cut your losses and let go. It's been a long time. You've invested time, heart and money and I know you've somehow made it through roadblock after roadblock - I don't doubt that the love is there!! But you both deserve to LIVE and you're letting precious years go by for a whole lotta "maybes."

Let him go, get out there and meet someone. Unless, of course, you're content with not meeting someone. This is something in his head and maybe it's permanent. Time will tell. But for now, let him go and give yourself the freedom to fly. If he's the right one for you it won't be this much work - I'm convinced of it!! (And that's not to say that he won't be The One at some point - but right now? No...I don't think so.)

Whatever you choose, love you, girl *hugs*

This thread is about me trying to decide how the issue of children is going to influence my decision in the event that Remi and I get back together.

If you were asked to make this decision and the outcome didn't have any effect on your relationship, what would your decision be?

I suspect that your decision has been made, but now that your YM has decided he wants children, you're trying to change the way you feel to accomodate him and to keep the "hope" of a relationship alive.

Personally, I think his REASON for wanting a child is rather thin. If he was dying to be a Father and loved children, I think I'd be more understanding of his position. Carrying on the family name doesn't rate that highly in my books.....especially if it means breaking up an otherwise good relationship.

Very quickly, I brought up this thing about surrogacy because it is an option for people who are in this predicament of no longer being able to bear children, but think they might wish to have children at some point. Since that was not exactly the point of this thread, I won't post anymore on this here. But Paris, you are absolutely right that the LDS church frowns on this and that was my point in bringing up my sister's religion. Her husband was actually twice Bisop in their Ward, so the discussion she and her husband were having was about the church's views on this, with respect to a woman in their Ward. And my sister's view was that she feels doing this for immediate family is something she can wrap her head around.

Strwbrries, I appreciate your input. It is also why, as we contemplate this, we feel that a surrogate mother should have no genetic link to our baby. Even saying goodbye to a baby you have born is an event that I have trouble imagining. It takes an extraordinary individual to do this.

At some point, I think I will move some of this discussion down to my blog, but right now I have to stop beating a dead horse!!

And what if he's not...what if he's seeing his life invested in a woman in the states who although he loves, life with her means, illness, aging, certainly death at someone point and coming to the US means being alone should something happen to you. Its one thing when both partners are of the same age and see their history moving side by side, but when one partner is quite a few years ahead, you don't really see it until you've actually going through it and then it hits ya.

You both deserve so much more than just sitting in limbo. No one wants to make a decision and both of yous living in pain. Your journey doesn't have to be this hard...it is a learning experience being with a ym, but I don't always believe its a guarantee to happily ever after once the word "child" works itself through. Do ow really feel the need to have children in their 50s, what will it prove and will that guarantee anything?

I want to respond to these last few paragraphs in Paris' post, because I think her views are shared by a large number of people. In all lives, having a child is a gamble. There are certainly people for whom pregancy becomes a life threatening proposition. As people age, Paris is correct, the risks inherent in bearing children go up, as do the challenges to health incurred in raising them. There are no guarantees that if one brings a child into the world in their mid-fifties that they will be there 20 years later or that their own health will not become a burden to their partner. All stuff to think about!!

But as for the comment/question of whether older women really need to have children in their 50's, what it will prove or guarantee, my answer is zilch. This isn't about not being able to do without. This isn't about needing to prove anything to myself or my YM and I am certainly not naive enough to think its a guarantee of anything. This is about loving this man so completely and wanting that which will allow him to experience whatever he feels he needs in life. Right now he feel he needs me and if he later decides he needs children, I don't see why it has to be at my expense. This is about compromise and figuring out a way to make us both happy.

If you were asked to make this decision and the outcome didn't have any effect on your relationship, what would your decision be?

My decision would be the same .... sheer confusion. It isn't just about the relationship. It's about children and whether I want, or should, have any more at my age in my condition period.

I suspect that your decision has been made, but now that your YM has decided he wants children, you're trying to change the way you feel to accomodate him and to keep the "hope" of a relationship alive.

Sorry Miffy. That's just not true. I said earlier in the thread that in the beginning of our relationship I said that I would consider adoption in the event he changed his mind and wanted a child. Now I'm just not so sure that I could say yes anymore. Circumstances have changed since then.

Personally, I think his REASON for wanting a child is rather thin. If he was dying to be a Father and loved children, I think I'd be more understanding of his position. Carrying on the family name doesn't rate that highly in my books.....especially if it means breaking up an otherwise good relationship.

I think you're taking one statement I've repeated about him wanting a child to carry on his name and assumed that is his only reason for wanting a child. That's not his only reason.

Thanks everyone for providing input. I really don't feel any more clear on the issue than I did. I think in time all of this will be clearer to both of us. But, thanks everyone for your help.

This thread is about me trying to decide how the issue of children is going to influence my decision in the event that Remi and I get back together.

When I was faced with this question it became the be all and end all of our 3 year relationship ( with a 20 year gap). I simply did not want to be raising a baby in my late 40's. I had mentally signed off on that before I got in to an age gap relationship and I did not want to change my mind. So we did not stay in our relationship and he has since gone on to have a baby with his fiance and I have enjoyed relationships where having children is not an issue.

WR it seems like there is a lot in your life that discourages you from bringing up a baby....where you are up to career wise, healthwise, with your other children and grandchild, etc. If you do get back together can he envisage a life without children? Or is the compromise yours to make?

I think the answer to that queston is that I don't know yet. Like me, I think he is weighing all the information and options. I haven't completely turned down the notion, but he knows I am not as sure as I once was about raising another child. I think he is doing as much thinking about things on his end as I am. So, while I'd like to say that the compromise is ours to make, I'm not yet sure whose it would be in the event we reconcile.