I Am So Confused!

Wow. Mer and I must be on the same cosmic path. I, who almost never has a problem with the OM, just had a shocker of a conversation with B last night. Now I am halfway broken hearted and totally confused. In addition to the female bonding that goes on on this board, I would like any men "posters" to offer me some insight as well.

A little background:

1. B has been married twice. He was young and reckless in the first marriage and his wife was a psychotic twit. He has always accepted responsibility for what he did wrong in his first marriage and has learned from it and moved on.

2. B's second marriage ended in divorce because (in MHO) his wife was a sheltered, naive twit who saw $$ when she met her current S/O - a doctor. B also has a very, very strong personality. I think, that as she grew as a human being, she felt a stifled by his strong opinions and beliefs and instead of voicing her issues, kept it to herself and let her (incorrect) thoughts poison how she felt for him and eventually viewed him as the enemy instead of her lover. She is so childish that I honestly believe that she has some form of "rebellion" against B and ran away from him. They were what you *might* call an age-gap relationship, but not as big a difference as ours. He was totally surprised when she left him and apparently went through this very dark, deep depression.

3. He came out of that depression after getting back to his spiritual roots, so to speak, by studying the Tao, God and reading a book called The Power of Now. This is an EXCELLENT book and helps one to focus on the present - to live in the "now." And while I have studied the same book, and various religions and philosiphies, and while I AGREE with much of what Eckhart Tolle says in the book, I hold NOTHING as gospel. I do not think man, in his "earthly state" or "human condition" has the ability to know EVERYTHING. If we did know everything, we wouldn't be here to learn. But I DO glean a lot from that book and I have to admit that it has helped me have a much happier, brighter existence.

HOWEVER (here it comes), we were having a nice little dinner on the deck last night, under the stars, when we were discussing another local (but more SCANDALOUS ;) ) YW/OM relationship. The OM is a dentist and the YW was his daughter's best friend. He is putting her through dental assistant school so that they can work together; they are getting married; they are making long term future plans. We also discussed this magazine article from Spin (I think it was Spin) discussing this exact topic (OM/YW) and the writer had all of these BRILLIANT philosiphies on why YW fall in love with OM. At the end of the article, the bitter S.O.B. wrote "Remember this guys, the ALL leave."

This brought about a comment from B that shook me to the core. It really rocked my world. Here I am, feeling safe and secure in my love for him and his love for me and WHAM! He comes at me with "Well, that's why I hope you can accept that I focus on my love for you in the Now...That I don't think about what we'll be doing five years from now...that you are *LIKELY* to grow and change and won't want me in five years or so, so I'll just love you day by day." When I protested (more on that in a minute) he went on to rationalize it all by telling me that the advice he would give to our dentist friend would be to NOT invest so much in his S/O's future and planning on them being together...." I can't remember more than that.

It might not sound like a biggie to you guys, but it has really shaken me up! I am in tears and he didn't understand why. I tried to explain to him that what he said to me made me feel so temporary; he tried to say it might be a protective mechanisim; I tried to tell him that it made me feel dispensable and replaceable and just there filling space and entertaining him for however long; I suddenly feel like if I left him today, he wouldn't shed a tear; I THOUGHT that what we felt for each other was special and now it seems LESS than even run-of-the mill. He saw how hurt I was and kept trying to tell me how much he loved me, but I just don't understand how he can say what he said and then expect me to feel love coming from him...I am so utterly confused. He was kind and sweet and kept trying to tell me that he loved me, but I just went into shut down mode. (For those of you who don't know, shut-down mode from me is worse to deal with than my anger. Literally, it's beyond my control and it just happens. My eyes glaze over, my blood pressure drops and I am barely responsive.)

We discussed the topic of his last ex and how that remark makes me feel that I am getting "less" from him because of what she did to him. That he's not going to love me "all the way" because she left him like she did or because he READ it somewhere. I am hurt, furious and insulted. I am NOTHING LIKE HER. She was young, naive and inexperienced when he met her. I, while 25 years younger than he, have had some rough, unsheltered times. I moved out of my house at 17, I've been married and I'M ALMOST 30! I am not a child. I am generally level headed and I GENERALLY adapt and "go with the flow." But this hurts. I am so confused. I don't punish him for my ex-husband's sins. I may occasionally feel threatened that he'll "turn out just like him", but I know better than to make decisions based on transfer of one personality to another person!!!

I know he loves me, but I thought he loved me more deeply. He says he loves me deeply, but I am so shocked and confused. I can't get my arms around what he said. He says I am misinterpreting what he said to me, but I don't see how. I feel now, like our relationship is unbalanced and lop-sided. Until last night, I thought everything was hunky-dory and I was so thankful that we'd found each other. I'm sick with thinking I'm just a stand in because I was the best of the lot. . .

I love him because I just DO. I did not "choose" to love him (althought that comes later in a relationship...), I just loved him openly, freely, without reservation or fear and THIS is what I get in return??? Love with a wall??? Love with an exception??? Love without occasionally skipping out on the "Now" and daydreaming about the future. If you feel safe and secure about the future, it's so much easier to live "in the Now," isn't it? How can he talk about marrying me, but not invest EMOTION or FEELING into the future. Did marriage come up because we'll get better insurance rates or something???

I know I'm going on-and-on, but I'm just floored right now. I know that I can probably get some sound advice or at least support from you guys. And I'm sorry if I'm being a baby. It's just that we have never had any REAL problems and I see this AS A REAL problem. I love him with everything I have. It's shocking to feel that I might not be loved the same way in return. I don't hate him for this or anything, I'm just confounded and depressed.

Any thoughts at all are appreciated.

Love,
Not-So-Happy-at-the-Moment

Happy......

Sorry, you had such a bad night.....

It seems from what you have said, that your OM and you have had days (and nights) of beuatiful times together. It is important to remember this as you look at a bad night.

I would say that an insecurity that every OM faces is the aging process. I have discussed this with my lover...and she really has put this concern to rest for me. We now joke that she has to stay in shape...so she can push my wheel chair. ;-) She knows it has been an issue, and it has really settled down to where it belongs.

"Well, that's why I hope you can accept that I focus on my love for you in the Now...That I don't think about what we'll be doing five years from now...that you are *LIKELY* to grow and change and won't want me in five years or so, so I'll just love you day by day."

I understand why this hurt...and he probably wouldnt remember the conversation this way...which is just the way we sometimes think. He really is sharing his thoughts with his lover...unfiltered...something you really want. And it is shocking the thoughts that can go through our head.

I would be that if this is the first time you two have had this type of 'shocker', then i dont really think this is his final thought on the issue of a YW. I would advise that you find the strength to be really teflon and let it all go past you and nothing stick. You dont have to forget...just truly carry on like last night did not happen.

What he is probably looking for from you is reassurance that you love him...and don't have a problem with him aging. And yes, living for today is very wise...and so is investing for tomorrow. If you continue to show (and tell) your love for him, this will probably be the best thing you can do to help him in this area.

My lover had to put up with many conversations about our age difference until i waas truly convinced that it was only an issue in MY mind. She was unflappable. She was undetered. Ultimately, she said, that she loved me...and wanted to be with me no matter what...married, single...with or without kids...Just with me. And if I couldnt get there...she probably would NOT be with a younger man. She prefers those with Grey. Go figure.

It took time for me, but now we can laugh about the difference. And actually tease each other about it. It has normalized.

Happy, give your OM a second change and lets both hope it was a bad night...and a rough version of telling you just how he feels at a bad moment in his life.

Hang in there, girl...He sounds like he is worth the extra effort.

The IrishKid

Irish, I can't tell you how much your reply has meant to me. I've sat here and read it about five times. I'm not usually this shakable, but I was pretty hurt by that conversation.

Originally posted by IrishKid
Happy......It seems from what you have said, that your OM and you have had days (and nights) of beuatiful times together. It is important to remember this as you look at a bad night.

You are certainly right about that. We have more fun together than should probably be allowed here on earth.


Originally posted by IrishKid I would say that an insecurity that every OM faces is the aging process. I have discussed this with my lover...and she really has put this concern to rest for me. We now joke that she has to stay in shape...so she can push my wheel chair. ;-) She knows it has been an issue, and it has really settled down to where it belongs. [/B]

(smiling) Well, I thought that my free and easy nature and lack of concern about the age difference had put that to rest. I guess since I was feeling so safe and secure, that I just took it for granted that he was feeling the same way.

[i] I understand why this hurt...and he probably wouldnt remember the conversation this way...which is just the way we sometimes think. He really is sharing his thoughts with his lover...unfiltered...something you really want. And it is shocking the thoughts that can go through our head. [/B]

(sigh) I honestly KNOW in my head how important it is that he feel safe enough to share his feelings with me. (smile) And I do really want that. I think that feeling safe enough to express your feelings with your partner is of the utmost importance. My reaction probably wasn the best. . . And I WAS very surprised at his reaction. I'm usually pretty intuitive and "surprise" is not something I handle too well.

[i] I would advise that you find the strength to be really teflon and let it all go past you and nothing stick. You dont have to forget...just truly carry on like last night did not happen. [/B]

Ohhhh, I used to be pretty good at the Teflon thing. I promise I'll try.

[i] What he is probably looking for from you is reassurance that you love him...and don't have a problem with him aging. And yes, living for today is very wise...and so is investing for tomorrow. If you continue to show (and tell) your love for him, this will probably be the best thing you can do to help him in this area. It took time for me, but now we can laugh about the difference. And actually tease each other about it. It has normalized. [/B]

Maybe that is what hurt the most! I stupidly thought that my attitude and actions WERE reassuring. REassuring that I'm faithful and loyal and while I'm always up for growing and changing, I honestly believed that we could grow and change together. Change is not always a death sentence to a relationship, you know. We used to joke about it. I purchased and antique temple bell from a monastary in China for Christmas and we had a good laugh about something in the house being older then he was. Again, I think my not caring about the age difference blindly led me to believe that he didn't worry about it either.

[i] Happy, give your OM a second change and lets both hope it was a bad night...and a rough version of telling you just how he feels at a bad moment in his life. Hang in there, girl...He sounds like he is worth the extra effort. The IrishKid [/B]

Oh, I would give him a million chances, he's so dear to my heart. It was a hard night and I woke up this morning feeling dead inside. That's MY protective mechanisim and if I'm not careful, it takes over. I spent the last five or so years of my life in "Numb Mode" and I don't ever want to live that way again. I'm afraid of becoming the walking dead again.

And I do think he is worth the extra effort. I love him so effortlessly anyway that a little bit of work shouldn't scare me away. I guess I just assumed that we were on the same page and it just spun me around to think that our love might be reduced to something so clinical. I mean, I AM a VERY logical person, but I'm one of those that can truly combine logic and romantic notions all at once. I'm not a "black-and-white" kind of girl.

And I guess it also upset me because it seemed to question my loyalty and love for him. I am a very loving being. I love to love friends, family and I even send love out to strangers I pass on the street. I LOVE my fellow man, even the bad apples. But I have a special, set-aside kind of love for B. Something that goes beyond my friendly love of my fellow humans. All I have ever asked of anyone: my family, my ex, B - is that the love me and treat me kindly. I just want to be treated kindly and know that I'm loved.

I am one of the most devoted and loyal human beings you could ever possibly meet, even under great duress and extenuating cirumstances, but when I give my heart to someone, that loyalty is completely and utterly unbreakable. (Is there something beyond ROCK SOLID???)

Thanks for your outlook and opinion. Believe it or not, it has really helped calm me a little and given me a little peace of mind.

Love,
Happy

Got a little teary eyed there...

What he is probably looking for from you is reassurance that you love him...and don't have a problem with him aging. And yes, living for today is very wise...and so is investing for tomorrow. If you continue to show (and tell) your love for him, this will probably be the best thing you can do to help him in this area.

I think that is the best advice....and we even got one of our men to post! Fabulous!

Happy,

I don't think you over reacted....it's just that HappyLand is bound to have it's days. I think you have every right to feel the way you do, but find the words that need to be expressed to him. You need each other now more than ever, open up to each other, communicate why his words upset you and TOGETHER you can work through this and become stronger and learn from it. Become the power couple that everyone should strive to be.

~Em

see...that's why it's always good to have our men posting. not that any of us fabulous females couldn't write that...but it holds a different meaning when a man posts....i don't know if that makes sense...it does in my head, but it doesn't always make sense when I try to express it. :p

Happy,

Wow! First off, is it alright for the "guys" of this site to give you a big hug???

"Well, that's why I hope you can accept that I focus on my love for you in the Now...That I don't think about what we'll be doing five years from now...that you are *LIKELY* to grow and change and won't want me in five years or so, so I'll just love you day by day."

Personal opinion!.......Defense mechanism!!

"1. B has been married twice. He was young and reckless in the first marriage and his wife was a psychotic twit. He has always accepted responsibility for what he did wrong in his first marriage and has learned from it and moved on.

"and has learned from it and moved on."!!



2. B's second marriage ended in divorce"

Again personal opinion....and sigh... personal experience! No he hasn't! (well yes he has learned from it) but he's also learned that everytime he's given his love unconditionally it ends badly!
And as horrid as his words have cut you, I'm sure his apologies were as sincere as he could make them and that he is truely sorry that his words (& feelings) have hurt you.

I'm not sure if feelings are different for us guys than it is for the women, but I do know that after having my heart ripped out by so many loves I do sort of have the assumption that if you get burned enough times you make an attempt to try and deaden the pain beforehand so to say. I know that when I got with C I was even scared to say those three words even though I felt them oh so deeply from the very begining. I'd just had my heart ripped out and kicked around as she laughed at me, and here was this spectacular, loving, caring, giving Y/W showing me tenderness that I hadn't seen in years. I was having so many feelings going on in my head I swore it would burst!

And yes! as a defense mechanism...I felt....I'm going to enjoy each and every day we spend together with all my heart.....and not think about 5 years from now! Mainly because in my past my hopes of 5- 10 years from now had all ended with me standing there wondering what happened to that love (why was I the only one still there?)

Well to me..it all sounded good in theory!
But I can honestly say in our case we soon found the flaw in the theory, I for one came to the realization that the only one I was fooling was myself....and also that the theory was hurting her, that she was/is in this for the long haul. So as hard as it is to say..unconditional!! I have said the word and know it means so very much to her to hear it!

Yes after so many failed loves I have many fears! mainly that 5 years from now I'll be standing alone again! For many reasons, age gap, being one of them! but for any number of reasons loosing a love (IMO) can be as painful as loosing one to death.
Something I personally feel you never "get over" you just learn to deal with. I do myself believe in the Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all saying.

We have plans for our future together now Marriage, children, the whole time span. With all options considered.

I hope the best for you two, and maybe if you show him my post He may see a bit of light on all of this, Keep us posted and best of luck!

Don

Ever feel like the universe is one big pop quiz and you haven't even been given the textbook to study for it?

Happy, from all you have said previously...and even all you say in this thread...I don't think you have a huge problem in your relationship. Not belittling the effect those words had on you--I understand how words can hit you in the gut sometimes. Just agreeing that it was one bad night out of how many good?

I think your guy has a lot of fear. And he might not even know it. Basically, its in there so deep that its gonna take time, and time, and more time....have you done anything wrong? Nope, you've done it RIGHT!! Keep showing him you love him, keep reassuring him thru actions...you've done it right, its just gonna take a lot more doing.

Your actions, your love, you proving yourself by doing...these will bit by bit take away his doubt...until one day he wakes up, and the doubts and fear are gone.

lots of patience!! :) You can do it, girl!!

Don...

Great advice....I would agree. Nice to see I am not alone in this.


Happy....there is light at the end of the tunnel...and it is not a train... ;-)

Hang in there. I am waiting for the post really soon that tells us that the tempest was indeed in the teapot, and that you and the OM are back at it again like there was never an interruption.

The IrishKid

Can you two be any sweeter....seriously, I really enjoyed reading your posts in Happy's time of need.

Out of curiosity...how long did it take for you guys to be comfortable with the age gap? And when (if any) did you know (and how) that this was a serious relationship.

~EM

Don, Irish, Em & Lara (hey Lara! Nice to see ya!) thanks so much for your posts. Again, Don & Irish, I can't tell you how nice it is to hear from the men's side of this. Not that my gal-pals on here don't offer some of the best advice in the world, but you two have helped me to come close to understanding the thought processes that some men might have.

And yes, hugs are o.k.!!! ROFL. I sorely needed one after last night.

And Lara, you ARE right in that this is/shouldn't be a huge issue. I was just so surprised at what he said my own thoughts were drowning out anything he was trying to say after the inital shock. Really, what Irish said about the man not remembering the conversation in the same way I do hit closer to home than one might think.

And Don, thank you for bringing up a valid point about how men feel after relationships. I have a bad habit (that I've tried to overcome) of thinking that if I think everything is going smoothly, then by some manner, my S/O is feeling the same way! I'm not being very "aware" of his feelings, hence my surprise at this issue. Just because I haven't transferred every hang up I have about men and trust issues on B doesn't mean that he isn't allowed to be insecure.

I guess it always surprises me that someone could ever be insecure about my feelings for him!!! ROFL:) I am secure in my love for him and have never questioned it. It never occured to me that he might be insecure about it. And that was really inconsiderate of me.

Thanks so much, ya'll. If you don't mind, I am going to print these posts out and staple them in my journal. That way, if this ever pops up again, I can just re-read it.

I can't thank you all enough for being here and offering such sage advice when I needed it. I love B beyond measure and I don't want to have a nutty over this. Again, I was just having trouble getting over the shock of the conversation itself.

And thanks again to the "gentlemen of the board" for some male insight. It was really very nice to read.

Love,
Happy

Hey.......I do that too....the whole put posts in my journal thing...helps on those long nights ;)

(dying laughing here) I swear, one would be hard pressed to believe we have any energy left to write between working and posting all day! ROFLMHO!!!:p

Hap

Okay, another guy chiming in here with support.

(This is kinda redundant given the excellent thoughts of the other guys - but this is what I had planned to post the other day before the board went down. This answer is really way too long, but I think Happy is DEVOURING stuff at the moment so I hope this reinforcement, redundant or not, helps.)

You said, "I know he loves me, but I thought he loved me more deeply."

There's your mistake right there, so don't construct your whole super shutdown fortress of solitude and desolation (SSFOSAD) on a faulty premise. The guy loves you to death. The guy loves you so much it touches all the raw FEAR and insecurity inside of him.

Let's do some editing on that line.

"I know he loves me, but he needs to love himself more deeply."

or...

"My God, I didn't realize he loved me THAT deeply."

You women... for some bizarre reason you assume that men have their sh*% together - together so much that it's all about validating YOU!!! ;)

You are so obviously the gorgeous babe of his dreams and the guy's in complete meltdown distress. Shheeesh.

Here's the deal. Feel good about yourself and offer him as much love as you can. That's all you can do. Only he can overcome his fears if he's aware and willing to trust not just you, but himself.

Look, the good news amongst all of this is that extreme fear only comes about when you so totally invest in wanting something, you just can't bear the thought of losing it. i.e.- he luuuuurves you!

That's why he's clinging to the "every day at a time" spiel. It's safer. He can handle that. It doesn't scare him so much and he feels as though he can start to cope with that.

Look, the guy's in distress, so let's get to the heart of this.

To earn that unconditional love (for you sound like a great woman) he IS going to have to overcome his fear. Ironically, the way he'll lose you is not by not trusting YOU, but by not knowing and trusting HIMSELF.

Huh? Did I write that right?

Yeah, that's right.

Try telling him that.

Oh to hell with it. I've gone on this far I'll go on some more.
This is actually the good and pertinent stuff.

Whenever I talk to women friends, I am constantly amazed (and in admiration) of the fact that at a young age they can happily envisage staying with a guy forever as long as they are happy. That is, they can meet a guy at, say, 18 and can perfectly reasonably envisage being with him for life.

For instance, a woman who has recently separated at 34 (with her guy as childhood sweethearts) said that she would have been perfectly content to stay with him had he not gone off the rails.

This mindset is truly incredible to a guy. I am in awe of that mindset. I love that mindset and every guy wants that woman who they can say to (on their death-bed at age 115) "Every guy who ever met you wanted you and I just want to thank you so much, for standing by me." (Klunk... and dead.)

The older men get, (and I'm generalizing here) the more they gravitate to the mindset of loving loyalty and commitment. At much younger ages, many guys in relationships are constantly wondering if this is "it"... perhaps "I'm missing out on something", what if "the grass is greener" over there... "I'm changing, I'm evolving, I don't know what I like!" "How can I commit to this woman?" "I'm scared." "Life is a long time! With her for LIFE!!!???"

This is also borne of, remember, that guys take commitment (contrary to popular opinion) VEEEEEERY seriously. Their word is their honor, etc, etc... so when they commit they want it LOCKED IN, SECURED, stamped, sealed and to never go back on that word.

Paradoxically, they view commitment so very seriously, it's such a humungous deal, that they suffer paralysis when faced with it and actually CANNOT COMMIT! (Because they do not know themselves. They don't trust themselves, they're not certain they're capable of sticking to, to delivering on this big contract. Will I find out I’m weak or a phony? Ah, better to avoid it.)

Is it any wonder that older guys, hooking up with younger women, remember the insecurities they felt at that age and transpose those feelings INTO their younger partner’s mind?

There is an argument (a convincing one) that women are actually far more pragmatic than men when it comes to relationships and it is in fact them who are happy to operate "day by day" and if those "day by days" actually turn into two centuries together, great.

The older a guy gets, (once again generalizing) the more comfortable he feels about himself and generally, the better he knows himself. He knows his strengths and weaknesses and he knows what sorts of promises he can deliver on and those he can't. And, TA-DA!... commitment is not only possible, but desirable... and achievable. He knows that. It's not some big scary amorphous monster that he created, (and he's always been frightened of fighting) - instead it's just the application of an inner quality he knows he possesses. Ahhhh, clarity and simplicity with inner knowledge.

Happy, your man is transposing the fears he once had (or still has) into your head. It might be worth him truly considering and understanding that women think and view the world very differently to men and that the fears he has had as a man do not even remotely apply to you as a woman.

You may want to examine in yourself how you cope with commitment and the uncertainty of the future and describe it to him. He may very well find that comforting. I would imagine that when he sees that your views and beliefs are quite different, (as a woman) the more comforted he’ll be. Right now he’s trying to do the worrying for both of you, using his insecurities as the template. He might be presuming (wrongly) that he knows all and best. That it’s up to him. That he has to make this work. That if it doesn’t, it’s his failure. He’s scared of what you might think, what you really want, or how you might change. He wants control, he wants to write the script, and he fears that he can’t. When he was your age he probably, deep down, did not have the ability to commit and is scared you’re the same.

The fulcrum, the lynchpin is that a man has to love his woman so completely that he must encourage her freedom and development above everything else (a.k.a.- above control) – even if that means losing her. The leap of faith, (like Indiana Jones in the Last Crusade) is that if a guy can just walk there, he actually gives himself the best chance of securing that very rare eternal love.

It’s very rare because it’s a very tough ask for most guys. I will go out on a limb and say that most guys, older or not, want control. In many cases unfortunately, a OM/YM relationship is one where the guy has a keen, receptive audience for him to do some serious brain-washing. “I want your hair like this” “I like you dressed like that” “Act like this” “This is what you should have done there” “Let me tell you something…” or worse “Let me TEACH you something.”

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

All of that is not, in my opinion, healthy. I think it’s standard, but it’s not healthy. I think it’s ultra prevalent everywhere, but I still don’t think it’s healthy.

To love a woman pure-heartedly will be to quietly encourage her growth and learning and freedom and individuality and especially her independence above all of my needs. Above all of my fears. Above all of my insecurities. Then and only then, if she sticks by me, then I’ll know I have something so very, very, special.

Did I hear someone say “unconditional love”? Perhaps, Happy, you and your man can broach this subject, but not in a shallow, we think it’s deep way, but in a deep, now that’s really deep way.

Something that has gladdened me greatly reading the posts of the young women here: they predominantly seem to focus on what is so right, rather than worrying on what could or might go wrong. They just love their men so completely. It's so fantastic to see. But don’t on any count sell-out that wonderful spark that makes you you.

On a complete tangent (why not?) and as a sideline, the relationship pragmatism of women highlights a fascinating area where the two sexes emotionally flip-flop. Usually, in most things, the woman reserves the right to be flighty, to change her mind, to be governed by her mood, to be uncertain, whilst men want to apply logic and rationalization to most situations. However, in the arena of courting, the woman assumes the rational, logical stance (“what shows me that there is a future here?") whilst the man often vaccilates wildly, uncontrollably and with great uncertainty. (No constructed thought, just a peanut in the head rattling around in chaos.):)

And as a final note (as I've rambled on this long)... give those men of yours this simple test to guage their supposed eternal and unconditional love.

Announce playfully over dinner one night that you intend shaving your beautiful head of hair completely off just for a laugh because you've always wanted to try that.

Your supposedly unconditionally loving male will respond thus:

(a) Threaten that the relationship is over if you do
(b) Just get angry and sulk
(c) Say that he'd hate to see that but go ahead if you really must
(d) Laugh and support you 100% In fact, offer to shave it off for you.

I at various stages of my development would have been (a) thru (c). I am now firmly at (d). And (d) is the ONLY place I want to be.

****happy****** don't be sad....he probably needed to say that to get some reassuremnt from you.....Although all OM/YW relationships live for the day to day... but you do also plan a future ......Although.... again... for some reason we the women need to reassure constintly... they are extremely insecure about these types of relationships... because they are SOOOOOOOOOOOOO afraid that they will fall for us hard and we will leave them for a younger male someday.... and you know something sometimes that is the case but not because one is older or younger but because People do that stuff.... I mean I remember going out with someone ( my own age) and meeting someone else and leaving one for the other..... and He is just insecure and afraid of losing you.......So i don't think he meant that to hurt you.... he was just trying to prepare himself for the could be....... Just be his rock and reassure him your in this for the LONG HAUL..... start talking about your futures and make sure he feels like he is included.....

Happy I think we are on the same path here..... to crazy...

First . ..

Spunk! Thank you so much. None of it was really redundant. When I ask for opinions, I DO want a barrage of them. All of your points were very valid and greatly appreciated.


Second / The Update

Well, after I read all of your posts the other day I agreed that B & I needed to talk about it again, but he's got so much going on work-wise that I was just going to kind of wait it out. HOWEVER, the man can read my mind; if not my silence - so when he came home, we ate dinner (like nothing happened) and then we went in the den to watch some "Hardball" on CNN and before he turned on the T.V., he was like "Do we need to discuss last night further?" And I know I had the deer in the headlights look. I didn't say anything and he said "Come on...."

And talk we did. All of these feelings (that I wasn't even sure I knew I had) had risen up when he'd said that he was just loving me day by day: I was angry because I thought I was missing peices of him because of all of the crap from his ex-wives; I was angry that I thought that I was being compared to EITHER of them. Another thing was (Lara, you hit this on the head) that I was upset because I thought that I had done something WRONG. I couldn't figure out what I'd done to make him not feel like I was going to be there tomorrow or the next day or the next. And Spunkasaurus is right in mentioning that because I (as a woman) was focusing on validating MY feelings, I was ignoring (and surprised to discover) any insecurity on B's part.

There was so much we talked about, but with me keeping all of your posts in mind, I was able to circumvent the "estrogen filter" and hear what he was really saying to me. RollsHarley or IrishKid had mentioned something about all of his apologies being sincere - and that REALLY helped me stay focused. Because out of all of the things I had trouble understanding, what I DID hear and what I DID understand is that he DOES love me, that he wants me to grow and never feel like I'm "stuck with this old guy", that he wants me, always, but to stay with him because I still love him and not because I feel stuck or trapped out of obligation or guilt (hence the "day by day" speech); that he wasn't NOT thinking about our future together, but that he knew he wasn't guaranteed to have me forever and always and that might be a *good* thing, since it would keep complacency away and he wouldn't take me for granted. He wants me to, if I ever really need to, just come to him and say "Look, I don't think this is working anymore..." and he said he would TRY to be spiritually evolved enough to even help me pack my things. Of course, I took that to mean "You can leave anytime and I don't care" - and I expressed that to him. He laughed and said that of COURSE it would break his heart if I left; of course he would be miserable, it's just that he hopes that if it ever DOES happen, that he can be evolved enough to let me go without anger or resentment.

Of course, in my unsinkable, Pollyanna way, I told him that he needn't worry. Believe it or not, he did most of the talking and explaining with us stopping at things I didn't quite understand.

When I woke up the next morning, I was still a little confused and as I was "sneaking" out of the house to go to work, the back doors fly open and he SHOUTS (It was hilarious) "I LOVE YOU. HAVE A GREAT DAY." Then when I got to work, I had a voice mail that said "You looked bummed when you left this morning, and there's no reason to be because I love you and you love me and everything else is just superficial."

SO...after ALL of that, I came back to work a re-read all of your posts (thank God I printed them) got my final thoughts together and sent him an e-mail. (Which I was going to post to get your opinions on that too, but this post has gotten long enough.)

We are back on track, the tempest was in the tea pot, the light at the end of the tunnel was not a train and I'm safe knowing that he loves me and I'm also safe in knowing how much I truly love him and that, while it may take some time, I'll eventually be able to alleviate all his fears the easiest way I know how - by just being the same, good-hearted, sweet me that I am.

Love you guys,
Happy

Originally posted by MerAlove23
****happy****** don't be sad....he probably needed to say that to get some reassuremnt from you....they are SOOOOOOOOOOOOO afraid that they will fall for us hard and we will leave them for a younger male someday.... and you know something sometimes that is the case but not because one is older or younger but because People do that stuff.... I mean I remember going out with someone ( my own age) and meeting someone else and leaving one for the other..... and He is just insecure and afraid of losing you.......So i don't think he meant that to hurt you.... Just be his rock and reassure him your in this for the LONG HAUL..... start talking about your futures and make sure he feels like he is included.....

Happy I think we are on the same path here..... to crazy...

ROFL. SERIOUSLY! I mean, we NEVER have problems. ROFLMAO.

And you know, I worry sometimes about him thinking that I will leave him since I'm the one who left my ex-husband (and the took up with B so quickly thereafter). But as much as B knows about the screwed up things I suffered at the hands of my ex, I still think he sometimes feel like he "stole" me from him, which is completely untrue (and why I am always screaming at women to get divorced, cut and dry, before they find another man. ROFL)

And I WILL talk a little more about "us" together and make sure he feels included.

Love,
Happy

Spunkasaurus,

Journal stuff, a bit long, but I love it .....lol!

This mindset is truly incredible to a guy. I am in awe of that mindset. I love that mindset and every guy wants that woman who they can say to (on their death-bed at age 115) "Every guy who ever met you wanted you and I just want to thank you so much, for standing by me." (Klunk... and dead.)

LoL....I have searched for "that" woman my whole life....Although yet. I am still alive! And in past relationships I had sworn that I'd found "that" woman! Age Factor?? P/O not at all..Love Factor!


It’s very rare because it’s a very tough ask for most guys. I will go out on a limb and say that most guys, older or not, want control. In many cases unfortunately, a OM/YM relationship is one where the guy has a keen, receptive audience for him to do some serious brain-washing. “I want your hair like this” “I like you dressed like that” “Act like this” “This is what you should have done there” “Let me tell you something…” or worse “Let me TEACH you something.” All of that is not, in my opinion, healthy. I think it’s standard, but it’s not healthy. I think it’s ultra prevalent everywhere, but I still don’t think it’s healthy. To love a woman pure-heartedly will be to quietly encourage her growth and learning and freedom and individuality and especially her independence above all of my needs. Above all of my fears. Above all of my insecurities. Then and only then, if she sticks by me, then I’ll know I have something so very, very, special

Very well put spunk, But then we both know that theory can so easily go both ways (also agreeing age has little relevance) that the woman would in many cases wish to "mold" her "ideal" man.
I also have to agree that true love needs to be where you both have room to grow and fully be yourselfs.

Again great post!

Don

Thanks Don; I'm completely flattered. Super positive vibes being beamed your way that will now extend your life from 115 to 120.
(She'll stick by you for another five.:) )