Sound advice needed please

I would like to get advice from anyone who has ever been in the same or similar situation as myself. I am unhappilly married but still living with my husband, seperate rooms and so on..... My (b/f-Y/M) and I have a 30 year agegap. We have been seeing each other for three years now. I would leave my husband to live on my own if my Y/M could only reassure me that things wouldn't change between us. But he just can't. This situation is very stressfull for me. I just don't understand why he doesn't want me to live on my own so we could see each other more. Is there something I am not getting here? Please no comments on my infedelity, I do not wish to be judged here, I am simply looking for some good sound advice. :confused: :( I&G

Originally posted by I&G2000
. I just don't understand why he doesn't want me to live on my own so we could see each other more. Is there something I am not getting here? :( I&G

He doesnt want commitment with you...plain and simple.
Dont tell me you didnt get that?

Okay, first off, is sounds like you want your cake and eat it too.
Here's what I suggest as well as some advice mixed in so take it any way you want:

1. Go to marriage counseling and try to restore the marriage.

2. If that doesn't work, then you need to get right with yourself and your spouse and come to a compromise.

3. Don't use the YM for a rebound court! You'll only hurt yourself.

4. Understand that if you leave your spouse for this YM, there must be a reassurance on you and your newly found love's future. But then again, that is stressing in itself!

5. Why are you waiting for permission from the YM to move out on your own? Why not do if for yourself if your marriage is so bad?

6. At this point in time, don't depend on the YM for reassurance or any type of decision making concerning your "marriage." Remember, you're the one married, and any move you make, you should never REGRET!

7. Be true to yourself! Just because the the marriage might be failing now, doesn't necessarily mean, the grass is greener on the other side. You have to know where your future is heading, regardless of who you're with.


I have a lot of other things to add, but I'll stop here. To me, I percieve a sense of insecurity. Why be in this "uhappy marriage" and why wait for "someone" to tell you what to do.
Do it for yourself!


Good luck,


joe http://users.pandora.be/eforum/emoticons4u/smoking/rauch23.gif

Very good advice Joey boy:)
http://pages.prodigy.net/bestsmileys1/signs/gogogo.gif

Thanks! :D

I agree Adri... nicely said Joe.

Yuppers, I agree....Joe, you have just 'redeemed' yourself:D

I agree with both Adri and Joe :)

I&G you do sound as if your lacking in the self esteem /self reliance dept and therefore don't believe you can live on your own. Whether your marriage is unhappy or not your comfortable there...

Are you expecting your YM to move in with you if you move out? Have you ever been seen publicly with the YM? and does your husband have any idea that your seeing this YM?


I believe from what you have written... that this YM doesn't want you to move out or care if you move out simply because he doesn't want to be commited to you as Adri stated. If you move out on your own then I bet he assumes that you would want to be with him more as a couple and be seen together in public and he can't handle that reality. He wants you for the plaything he has had...but since he says he cannot reassure you even in the short term about anything to me that sounds like he likes getting physical with you....but thats it....sorry if this sounds harsh..but thats what it sounds like to me :rolleyes:

Listen to the advice Joe has given you....If you want out of your marriage...do it for YOURSELF and noone else! Your the one that has to live with your decision.

~*foxyeyes*~

Ever hear of it?
Some people in life tend to get their highs from this.
When their not on the edge of life, it is not as exciting and dangerous.
I'm not speaking of just your YM, but you aswell!
Do you honestly think your relationship will work even if you do leave your hubby for this YM? your living on the edge too babe, and life is so much more exciting and dangerous for you, thrill shall we say? Most relationship that start this way in a affair DON'T last anyhow, their is no thrill no more, the thrill is gone. & what next? another affair to keep your excitment in check?
A never ending cycle, Can almost guarintee ya even if you leave your hubby, your YM won't stay, he has it all, as do you, and if you leave your HUBBY reality sets in for him-your ym that is, and WHAT? THAT'S NOT WHAT HE BARDDERED FOR.... he barrdered for a married woman. "Safer that way"
If your going to leave your HUBBY, do it for yourself girl, not for another man, you owe it to yourself, and most of all your hubby!

Or you can always come clean to your hubby *smirk* and start off rebuilding your marriage. But then again he might tell you to pack your bags....
now why would you do that? Ohhh cause you have the best of both worlds, a dude on the side and your hubby incase it doesn't work out!

Hello I&G2000:)

This does sound like a stressful situation you have gotten yourself into!

I am assuming that there are reasons for you not leaving your husband and if I were you I would look at them carefully before I even considered your YM. I understand that after a long marriage things can seem impossible, financially and emotionally, to survive on your own, but it can be done! If you really want to!

You must not use this young man as a safety net but try to resolve your life for yourself, it is very possible that he does not want to take on such responsibility at his time of life or that he is waiting for you to show that you are committed before he does, after all you are the one that currently has impediments to your relationship.

So I would say to put things on a backburner while you work out where it is you want your life to go. Try standing on your own for a while and seeing how that goes

:)

Hello I&G2000:)

This does sound like a stressful situation you have gotten yourself into!

I am assuming that there are reasons for you not leaving your husband and if I were you I would look at them carefully before I even considered your YM. I understand that after a long marriage things can seem impossible, financially and emotionally, to survive on your own, but it can be done! If you really want to!

You must not use this young man as a safety net but try to resolve your life for yourself, it is very possible that he does not want to take on such responsibility at his time of life or that he is waiting for you to show that you are committed before he does, after all you are the one that currently has impediments to your relationship.

So I would say to put things on a backburner while you work out where it is you want your life to go. Try standing on your own for a while and seeing how that goes

:)

Living an unhappy life takes away some years from you. You'll live better and longer if you are living your life to the fullest, or at least less empty of hope and dreams.

I am sure you have dreamed of being together with your YM. It's not what he has been dreaming of, though. He is comfortable with the situation as it is now.

Take a decision for yourself. He's not the only man in this world. He's just one more and not one willing to share your life, so think about yourself first.

Some men purposely choose married women to see because they know they will not be pressured for a commitment because she is not in a position to demand one. Sounds to me like you have gotten involved with one of those.

And it sounds to me like you may be one of those women who can't live without a man and don't want to be on your own. You may need to look inside yourself on this one.

Your YM may not want to BE THE REASON for your divorce. If it did not work out he may be afraid that you will say "But I left my husband for you". Like everyone said... you have to do it for yourself. But being unfaithful and hiding is not good for your mental and physical health. If you can not resolve this, please go see a counselor and get some help.

hello everyone this is my first time posting to this thread, but i just couldnt resist responding to I&G. i believe you should ask him why he doesnt want to reassure you that nothing will change between you if you leave your husband. perhaps he doesnt want the pressure on his shoulders that he broke up your marriage.. when in fact you know he didnt. if you want to leave your husband, then do it because you want to .. i mean if you are in love with another man do you really want to live with your husband? my ex and i were not in a good relationship at all, then he left me. i have been in a relationship with a man who is 29 years younger than me for more than 2 1/2 years and together we are happier than we've ever been in our lives or ever dreamed of. and there is a certain amount of responsibility as a couple that we take for the divorce between my ex and myself.. but my marriage was never really a marriage to begin with .. i had been married for 16 years to a man i was never in love with.

All of the above is good advice. Stay or leave your marriage on your own, without any reassurnace that you will have soemthing to move into right away.

However, it sounds as if your YM just wants to get laid. He can deal with the limited relationship and likes the sex. Don't expect anymore than that from him.

This is a terrible situation for you to be in. You need to decide ASAP whether you are going to get rid of the YM and focus on your marriage, or leave your husband. Three years of this is long enough, and it must be taking its toll on you.

I agree with others that have stated that it seems like the YM just wants to get some action. If he cared about you, he would WANT you to leave your husband, and this would have come out at the beginning of the three-year relationship. It sounds like he either doesn't care about you, or has some serious issues with commitment -- in either case, you are wasting your life chasing after him.

Either ditch the ym and focus 100% on your marriage, or leave your husband REGARDLESS of what the ym says. This is about you, not him.

Thanks for the compliments peeps! :D
That's why I am wanting to be a licensed Family Therapist and Marriage Counselor.


joe http://users.pandora.be/eforum/emoticons4u/smoking/rauch15.gif

"I am unhappilly married but still living with my husband, seperate rooms and so on....."

Which begs the question...why are you still married?

"I would leave my husband to live on my own if my Y/M could only reassure me that things wouldn't change between us."

So you're basically staying in an unhappy marriage until you can hop into another committed relationship? You need to either fix your marriage (as others have said), or divorce and live on your own for a while. You need to figure out what you really want from life.

"But he just can't."

I don't blame him. If he promises anything, he's opening himself up to the charge of "I left my husband for you" every time the two of you have an argument, as someone else pointed out. You're asking him to make the decision about whether you divorce or not - it's unfair to put that load on him.

"This situation is very stressfull for me."

I'll bet it is.

"I just don't understand why he doesn't want me to live on my own so we could see each other more."

From what you said above, I don't think that's what he's saying at all. He's saying that he can't make any promises about the future. His answer about future commitment should have nothing to do about whether you divorce and move out - they're separate issues. You need to get your marital situation - and your emotional issues - worked out before you can expect anyone to make any major commitments.

"Is there something I am not getting here?"

The nature of marriage? The dynamics of relationships?

"Please no comments on my infedelity, I do not wish to be judged here, I am simply looking for some good sound advice."

I find it interesting how people who cheat always say "don't comment on my cheating, I don't want to be judged." Your cheating is pretty central to the issue at hand.

- Jesse

Great post jesse,

Not to mention a little thing call integrity...I'm sure he figures if she could do it to her husband, she could do it to me.

If she didn't want anyone to comment on her infidelity, she should've kept mum about it, as cheating for alot of people is a no-no.

Paris

"Not to mention a little thing call integrity...I'm sure he figures if she could do it to her husband, she could do it to me."

Yep, exactly. That's why I never date people who have ever cheated in any past relationship (if I know about it), regardless of the reasons or excuses. If they lack the basic integrity to avoid doing it in the past, then I can't trust them to avoid doing it in the future (and without trust, a relationship will never work).

The one and only situation I can think of where I would condone an extramarital affair was if a person's spouse ended up in a coma for life (no chance of recovery), and (s)he needed to stay married to the spouse so that the spouse could continue to receive the medical insurance benefits needed to maintain the hospital care. Under that circumstance, I wouldn't fault someone for finding a lover, short-term or long-term (or lifetime).

- Jesse

I am sorry, folks, but I find this so sad that despite what she wrote about not willing to be judged on her infidelity problem you still have to impose yourselves and go there.

We are nobody to judge others. Some of us have never been into their situations and CANNOT, SHOULD NOT even dare to judge. We might want to understand, ask her to tell us why, but only if our intention is to help and not to jump on her to say "cheater".

Yes, there are a million reasons to stay married to someone. Why is it that one can forgive a woman that sleeps with the enemy to get food, as we saw in another thread, but don't understand that sometimes the enemy in control is a husband, a father, a mother?

My mother stayed married to my alcoholic, abusive father for 24 years so that we could be physicians, lawyers, people with some study, differently from her, so that we wouldn't have to go through the same. She was beaten and called names during all that time. She had to share the room (differently from IG) and submit herself to him.

I have friends living in Luxembourg that have to go through this because if they divorce, they lose the right to stay in the country, and they don't want that, each one has a good reason for that, believe me. For three years they have to stand all sort of things. These are just some examples around me, I wonder how many more in this world.

Now, before throwing stones here, when the person didn't ask for your opinion on that subject, think that YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THIS WOMAN'S REASONS.

This is a support site. We give support there where the person needs. We are not here to force our ideas on anyone and scare them away.

Thank you!
Everytime I see one of these posts where someone says "Please don't judge me on this" or "Please no comments about that" I cringe. I know that there is always going to be someone who is going to judge them. You are so right saying "This is a support site". We have not walked a mile in their shoes and we do not know their story. Thank you for sharing the story about your mother. What a strong and courageous woman she is. Someone might judge her and call her stupid and weak for staying with a man like that.How wrong they would be. We all must live our own lives and make our own decisions. As a famous kind, caring, giving and the most loving man ever said "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

Oh well said Maria!

*Claps enthusiastically*

This woman came here for support on a particular situation, she knows herself what the opinion of the majority on cheating is and asked that we put that issue aside to focus on what she feels she needed help on. Surely we can either do that or refrain from commenting at all?

Many of us here are in relationships that are seem by many to be 'wrong', we should not be so quick to judge if we do not want others to do the same to us. Every situation is different and sometimes things that seem wrong at first glance become understandable when we know the details.

I am sorry, folks, but I find this so sad that despite what she wrote about not willing to be judged on her infidelity problem you still have to impose yourselves and go there.

We are nobody to judge others. Some of us have never been into their situations and CANNOT, SHOULD NOT even dare to judge. We might want to understand, ask her to tell us why, but only if our intention is to help and not to jump on her to say "cheater".

--- Maria

Right on, Maria!!

I believe the lady should have been able to get advice without being made to feel bad about the infidelity. Yes, it is bad, and she knows that, but didn't need our judgement on that issue.

Other than that, I think excellent advice was already given. Her ym is probably not interested in her as a wife or lifelong mate, but simply as a source of sexual gratification. She dreams of romance, but all he wants is the nookie.

I think her next step should proceed from that assumption.

Maria,
As you probably know, I don't post alot on difficult subjects because I tend to stand back and take it in. Sometimes, I just don't like getting in the middle of drama we've seen all too often here. I've read this thread and feel there was some good advice given and didn't see anyone totally bashing her for her choice to remain married, while having this relationship.

What I do see is some people trying to explain that "being married" is a major component of the issue at hand. It's unfortunate that humans will judge others at the drop of a hat, and I don't like being on the receiving end of it, so I'm not doing that here. What I do think, is we all make choices in life and those choices consequently affect our surroundings and the way things turn out. We, as adults, have to take some responsibility for the choices we make and the outcome.

If you go to counseling, a good counselor will tell an abused wife complaining of misery that her "choice" to stay or behave a certain way will determine certain outcomes. If she doesn't like the outcome, she must take responsibility to change something (either her environment or her reactions) or learn to live the undesired outcome and accept it. I have a pet peeve in life, when people want certain things to happen or be a certain way, but refuse to accept that their actions had some part in it.

In this woman's case, she choses to stay married and have this relationship. Her choice and I'm not here to say it's right or wrong. But I will say that is a MAJOR component of the issue, and makes it difficult to say how the issue could be different if you leave that part out. This would be like saying I don't like changing the oil in my car and don't want to discuss it. Oh, but my car runs badly and I want suggestions to how it can run better!

My perception is this fellow likes things the way they are. What are his reasons for not reassuring her? Who knows really. Maybe he's afraid of committment and therefore, seeks out a "safe relationship" where committment is a non-issue really. Maybe he doesn't want the responsibility of being the "home wrecker" society is so quick to label the "the other person." I personally (married or otherwise) would not involve myself with someone that could not articulate their stance and feelings on it in the first place with me, because we all know communication is the backbone to a successful relationship.

I guess their is fine line between judging someone, and trying to help them see what "their part" is in the problem. I do feel this woman deserves happiness, like us all. If she lives her life and makes choices for "her"..... her y/m make come around and be there for her. She said she would leave if he reassured her. I personally would not want that weight on my shoulders and would probably act as he is. He may be waiting for her to do it for HER, but then again who knows but him.

I read another one of her post regarding their relationship, where she says he lacks affection....but left out the marriage part. Maybe he has intimacy problems, trust issues, or just uncomfortable with their situation. Another one of her posts discuss a cousin buying him a blowup doll and what was that supposed to mean. Maybe the cousin knows she's married and was trying to give him some hidden message. Just saying her marriage is a component of her issues.

Whether, people like it or not... the choices we make and the situations we put ourselves in DO AFFECT the ones close to us. When they chose to ignore those components like that.....the desired outcome may never be within their reach.

OK, enough rambling....... you know I love you guys and think this is still a great place for support and wisdom. I've obviously said waaaay too much and wish her the best either way.

Gypsy~

I feel it is ok to say to her as part of the "advice" that I feel she might be better off if she first got out of the marriage. However, to make judgemental comments on it is different. Does that make sense?
Good point you made Gypsy about the blow up doll post. I had not put that together. Her being married does add complications and makes it harder to offer advice without sounding judgemental. I do think though, that a reply that is placed without judgement has a different "ring" to it.

Gypsy, you seem to have a very sweet spirit. :)

Thanks hun,

My y/m told me once that he compares life to his golf game. When he plays and the outcome is undesirable, he looks at what HE DID to figure out what went wrong. He then *alters* something he did AND takes into account his surroundings to try and improve his game. Trial and error, and constantly readjusting what he is doing brings about more desirable outcomes.

Life is like that to an extent. We want to improve "our game" but so many would rather sit and whine about the wind blowing, or the turf or the clubs, etc......... yes all that factors in......but what we do factors just as heavily.

I just hope she sees that her happiness is ultimately *her* responsibility and she may need to "make adjustments" in her life to get that. Staying status quo, may mean learning to accept that "her game" may not improve.

I learned these things the hard way by chosing to stay married way longer than I should have out of fear. I waited for someone to tell me it was ok to leave, or they would be there when I did. Somehow I figured out it was up to me to "adjust" what I was doing....... when I did....... great things started happening for me.

I am finally improving my game by taking responsbility for my life, and I hope our poster does the same.

Have a great day!
Gypsy~

"I am sorry, folks, but I find this so sad that despite what she wrote about not willing to be judged on her infidelity problem you still have to impose yourselves and go there."

Well, what if she had said "I beat my kids and abuse them emotionally, but I'm not here to be judged for that?" How about "I slip my wife knockout drugs and rape her while she sleeps?" You may not see cheating as a major problem, but I would liken it to a form of abuse. I've been the party who has been cheated on during times of marital difficulty - I have some idea of what I'm talking about.

"We are nobody to judge others. Some of us have never been into their situations and CANNOT, SHOULD NOT even dare to judge."

Again, what if she had said "I like to sleep with powerful men so I can blackmail them," or something like that?

"We might want to understand, ask her to tell us why, but only if our intention is to help and not to jump on her to say "cheater"."

Well, she IS a cheater, by the very definition of that word.

"My mother stayed married to my alcoholic, abusive father for 24 years so that we could be physicians, lawyers, people with some study, differently from her, so that we wouldn't have to go through the same. She was beaten and called names during all that time. She had to share the room (differently from IG) and submit herself to him."

I'm sorry that that happened, but that isn't quite the same thing, unless she was cheating during the marriage. Staying with an abusive spouse is a choice, for good or bad - cheating is a separate issue.

"I have friends living in Luxembourg that have to go through this because if they divorce, they lose the right to stay in the country, and they don't want that, each one has a good reason for that, believe me."

Again, that's their choice - to trade sex for residence in a country. That still has nothing to do with cheating in a marriage. The cheating statements have nothing to do with her decision to stay married - they have to do with her decision to cheat while married. They also have nothing to do with the topic of abused women, sex for food or residence in a country, etc. - they're about cheating.

"Now, before throwing stones here, when the person didn't ask for your opinion on that subject, think that YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THIS WOMAN'S REASONS."

The subject is central to her "problem."

"This is a support site. We give support there where the person needs. We are not here to force our ideas on anyone and scare them away."

I had no intention of scaring her away. If someone said "I like to belittle my husband, just for fun, but that's not the issue...," I'm sure that people would be quick to point out that it IS part of the issue, and that it's wrong to do so. Cheating is no different.

I wonder if everyone would be so quick to jump on me for saying something negative about her cheating if a 50-year-old man on the OM/YM portion of the board had said "I'm cheating on my wife of 20 years with an 18-year-old hottie I met the other day, but I don't want anyone to judge me?" Hmmmm?

- Jesse

"Many of us here are in relationships that are seem by many to be 'wrong', we should not be so quick to judge if we do not want others to do the same to us."

In general, I agree. I'm in a BDSM relationship, and half the population (or more) think that that's wrong. The difference is one of consent. BDSM without consent is abuse. Sex without consent is rape. "Humiliation play" (a sexual thing that I'm not into) without consent is verbal and emotional abuse. "Borrowing money" without consent is theft. Having sex without someone other than your committed partner without the consent of that partner is cheating.

"Every situation is different and sometimes things that seem wrong at first glance become understandable when we know the details."

That's why I pointed out (in a subsequent post) that I don't believe that there IS an excuse for cheating, regardless of the situation - I was making my perspective on the subject known, so that my comments could be read in that context.

It's important for people who ask for advice to give ALL the details up front - I've seen posts on various boards drag out for hundreds of messages until the original poster gave out a single detail that changed the situation entirely. All we have to go on when we give advice is what's said by the poster.

Someone else said:

"I do think though, that a reply that is placed without judgement has a different "ring" to it."

If you look back at my posts, I did give the original poster advice - pretty much the same advice that everyone else did. I did comment on the irony of cheaters saying "I'm doing this...but don't judge me," though, because I've seen that same sort of phrase over and over in various message boards. The vast majority of the post was advice, however.

Following that I got into a brief conversation with another poster about cheating in general, and expounded on my views of such. At no point did I ever say that cheaters are evil people or anything like that.

The different "ring" to the posts was that I said things directly. Someone seemed upset that I used the word "cheater" - if I had said "infidelity" or "indiscretion," would that have had a non-judgmental "ring?"

I have found that people tend to have a double-standard: "women cheat for a reason, men cheat because they're pigs," so maybe that has something to do with some of the opinions here. As I noted in another post, I wonder if all the responses would be the same if this had been a 50-year-old man posting about cheating with an 18-year-old woman - I suspect that the "ring" of the posts would have been quite different.

- Jesse

Well, she IS a cheater, by the very definition of that word. Okay... I will throw in my 2 cents. ;) Legally, she is a "cheater". But life is not black and white. Marriage is more than a piece of paper. A marriage can happen with two people blending their emotions, spirits and bodies and they know without the paper or with the paper... they are together for life.

She is sleeping in another room. They are not having sex (I assume). So emotionally they BOTH understand that the union is null and void. This is VASTLY different from a relationship where there is connection and actions of being married.

Now I am not saying that what she is doing is right or smart but I don't think she deserves the same slamming that I would see with your sterotype "hussie" material. Just something to think about.

As far as I know, Jesse, she never mentioned how her husband is, who is abusing who, better than that, she never mentioned IF someone is being abused. So all of your IFs make no sense here. Unless you know what you are talking about, better not to make assumptions.

And if someone comes here saying stupid things as you mentioned, Jesse, about beating, raping, whatever, don't you think we would know exactly what to do? There's a huge difference between this situation and the others, and we know how to make it (the difference).

If I were you, I would stick to what she says and if she wants advice on that, that's what we can do, more than that would be imposing ourselves and our uninvited opinions on her.

I think most of us here agree that she was very clear about what she needed from us. That she needs to take her life back in her hands, it's obvious. That she can't wait for anyone else to make that decision, too. This is good, non-judgmental, welcome advice.

When I used my mother's and my friends' examples, my point was that sometimes women stay in a bad marriage for a good reason. Whether you would do the same or not, please don't tell me you wouldn't without having stepped on their shoes. This would show a very little person. Some things are not that easy. It's not like asking someone "would you ever rape your child?". It's more something like asking someone "Would you ever steal?" You know you might, given the circumstances.

And if a woman in that situation falls in love with someone else, good for her, you may call it cheating, I call it surviving while living a real hell, from which she can't escape.

Commenting on how judgmental a post mentioning something that she deliberately asked us to leave aside: for me it's not the problem of judging alone that represents a problem here, it's also bringing that sensitive subject to discussion, against her will, that means a lack of savoir-vivre, politeness, sensitivity.

I say well said Maria! :)

Bedazzled, is that not a bit harsh?

For the record I have no ulterior motives here, I have not cheated but I have been cheated on, and yes it hurts, yes when it happens to you you can see no excuse or reason good enough to justify it - but we are all human, we all make mistakes, especially when we are under pressure as this woman is.(whether it is self imposed or not) I don't believe cheating on someone is good - far from it - but I can still see certain circumsanaces where I might do it. We do not know what is happening in this relationship so how can we be disgusted by her reaction to it?

My advice is yes, do not rely on someone else to give you the reassurance you need to leave this unhappy marriage. Your YM is just that, a young man who does not have the same experience you do and the pressure you are putting on him may be too much.

So, as I suggested before - put all your issues with him to one side and concentrate on sorting out your own life before you even think of another committed relationship. You can do it - I know because I have :)

I wasn't married but we were living together without love (not initially but after time), it is hard to see how you will cope on your own but trust me, you can, and the release of leaving a loveless relationship will be the biggest high you have eveer had :)

Bedazzled, is that not a bit harsh?
--- Keris


Yes it was! The judgemental crap needs to go.

If you are still reading, I&G2000, some of us are supportive. We don't know the awful details of your marriage....

We just hope you understand why this ym is probably no good for you, and why you need to move on.

Good Luck!

Ig, try this: http://pages.prodigy.net/indianahawkeye/newpage04/18.gif

And Harrison...if you continue sweet like this, I will open that poligamy thread for you!

:D

:D

Did she SAY she was cheating on her husband? Maybe they have an agreement of some kind. She said they have their own bedrooms "and so on" so maybe they lead some kind of seperate lives and he just doesn't "Ask" what she does and vice versa. Maybe he is impotent and told her to get a lover. Maybe I am all wrong here and she has posted that she is in fact "Cheating" but she still did not deserve a blasting out. We do not know all the facts. Unless I missed something.

I think I'll stick up for Bedazzled here.

Granted, one shouldn't judge unfairly, and one shouldn't judge when poorly informed, but people must judge. Without judgement, society has no standards. Most people still see adultery as wrong. It is. The lady that started this thread shouldn't be surprised that people were turned off by her seeming indifference to marriage vows. Like Joe said, she wants to have her cake and eat it too.

I don't know much about this lady's marriage. No one does, she was tight lipped about it. I would assume the marriage isn't that abusive, or else she would have said as much to elicit sympathy, or would have moved out by now. So lets be rational. Just as some here shouldn't scorn her with fire and brimstone, the rest of us shouldn't bend over backwards to portray her as a victim, or survivor of a "living hell".

but it was and is mean spirted and not based on knowing all the facts. You are thinly disguising an attack as "an opinion". Very cold and unwarranted. She came here seeking support and I will repeat WE DO NOT KNOW ALL THE FACTS.

She is asking for advice. What if she and her husband have some agreement? What if the YM in question knew this from the beginning? What if he does not commit because he does not want to be the one to ask her to leave her marriage and needs her to be the one to make the decision? Wouldn't it be a nice world if we all could "grow up and make decisions" without the need of support or counseling or feedback or advice?

Almost all of the posts here are "one sided" and we have to give advice or comment based on the presentation of the member giving their "side".

I just do not feel that she warranted a verbal lashing. JUST MY OPINION.

Whether being "bashed" or not.. I&G2000 has not responded to any of the posts here to either clarify, deny, or confirm anything. It's difficult to offer advice when those trying to give it could use a few more details to help one way or the other. The only other post I recall of hers, was about a blow up doll.

I think the best advice given here, was that she deal with her marriage one way or the other, either stay or end it.. with or without the young man. It shouldn't matter if he's there or not, and really has not much to do with him. He shouldn't be the reason she leaves.

I hope she responds in some way to people's comments. We've seen posts like this before, where someone poses a question/problem, then never responds to others... makes me wonder.

it would be nice if she would reply in some way. I feel her post and this thread in particular can still be used as a learning opportunity. For others who may be in a similar situation and may be reading yet afraid to post. For other members on here to learn more about the nature of their fellow members. For other lessons that can be addressed within the replies and the offshoots of them.

I have posted on other message boards before and never replied again. I can remember when I was so nervous to type out my post and hit send! Much less to engage in a dialogue! Maybe she is still reading and afraid to reply or maybe her computer crashed or she had to go out of town.

Am I full of maybe's tonight or what?

Maybe I am PMS...hmmm...

Wow reading this thread and surprised.

In my marriage my ex husband used to say to me "I hope you cheat on me and then I can laugh at the next guy who is stuck with you" :( Trust me..........I did not feel guilty at all that I clung on to someone emotionally to get me outta that. It was innocent sexually however.

Sometimes when your married to someone horrible you almost need a beacon in the night to go towards. I know its odd and not very healthy but sometimes you just do. A light in the darkness to lead the way.

I dont think that the younger man probably wants to take all that on from the sound of it, but the only way to find out is to discuss it as two rationale adults.

All you can do is ask him outright "Do you want to be with me ?
If he doesnt know move forward or not based on being alone.

Other than that not much you can do to know where he stands.

If he wants to take it on he will. If he doesnt, he wont.

Or, let him be a friend to you and help you get out of there if its bad and then when all is said and done see where you two stand.

But do it all based on the fact you very well may be all alone at the end of it all.

I know, I did that and I ended up quite alone but was happy to be so.

I just feel badly I wasnt a better friend myself to the other person involved and did not think of him one bit only myself because my pain was so great I was self absorbed and I hope you dont think Im saying you are, Im not. Thats just exactly how I was. I look back and cringe. Hes still my friend but were not nearly like we used to be.

Heather

Originally posted by HeatherLynn


Sometimes when your married to someone horrible you almost need a beacon in the night to go towards. I know its odd and not very healthy but sometimes you just do. A light in the darkness to lead the way.


Heather

Heather! Your entire post is a perfect answer to this womans question! I say we delete all the other posts and leave yours! How beautiful!

Thanks Tru. Its just Ive been there, not exactly where shes at but near there.

Thanks for the compliment. I wrote a poem back then about a beacon in the night, a light shining in the darkness leading me home. It just came to my mind when I was reading her post.
She seemed to need something to go towards. Sometimes it really is that dark.

Heather

Originally posted by Celtic-American
So lets be rational. Just as some here shouldn't scorn her with fire and brimstone, the rest of us shouldn't bend over backwards to portray her as a victim, or survivor of a "living hell"

I mentioned living hell as a possibility for those willing to judge, not to portray her in any case, since I have been repeating that we don't know her!

And although we don't know anything about her, we do know one thing: her objective coming here was to discuss why her boyfriend was reluctant in moving in with her. Most people agreed that he might like the dating a married woman aspect of the thing and want no responsabilities; that might be an explanation. As far as I know, that's a good reason, followed by lack of love, for such an attitude, given that I don't know much more about the subject. That's all she gave us, that's all I can give her.

And I respect her option to give just that as information, because people in distress are not expected to be as rational as we would like them to be.

Heather put it wonderfully, sometimes the reasons behind a story are just unthinkable for many of us.

What you shared was so poigant and true. I say this repeatedly, until you have walked in anothers shoes... don't judge. Isn't it interesting that in the Christian Bible, Jesus always takes up for the women that have cheated or commited adultery. We will overlook so many other things, but it causes us to put our claws out there sometimes when we learn of this transgression.

I have been cheated on and it is a story that no one could image. It ripped my heart out. I have been on the other side in a marriage where I took so much abuse that I thought that I did not deserve to even live on this planet. I had done nothing wrong but my soul was dead. When you are that far gone... you will do things sometimes that you look back on & regret.

I don't know this woman's total story. I agree adultry is wrong, terrible, and devastating. But if one calls themselve a Christian, then we are to love or care about the cheater while disliking or hating the adultry. If any of you are not a Christian... than just ignore this mini-sermon. ;)

I remember I&G from before, and I have spoken with her in private message. There is more to her story than she divulges here....and that I am not able to divulge.

I think that it would be fair to say, on her behalf, that her's is more of a situation where she has chosen obligation over her own happiness for a good many years.

And I think what Maria said was right, she came here for advice about her young man, and she specifically asked not to be judged. Let's try to be a little more gentle...

We have people here who turn to us in a multitude of different situations.....Let's not drive anyone away.

I would like to know that, if the time ever comes, I could turn to everyone here when I need help, even if I have made a mistake or done something some would disapprove of.

I think it's okay to state your opinion, of course, but I just think we should not jump to any conclusions, and state our points with tact and respect.

In regards to the original post that started the thread, and some of the rest of the thread I have answered, she states that she has been seeing her younger man for three years. I would think, personally, that this y/m does have feelings for her. I wouldn't think anyone sticks around for three years just for sex. What do you think?

Gosh! We're all so totally bedazzled!! :rolleyes:

to cast a magic spell of kindness over everyone. Now wouldn't that be nice?

http://saoriweyr.free.fr/minigifs/180402056.gif

I think all that have posted here have given some valuable information and insight. Not everyone is going to agree. Hopefully I&G2000 can take some of what was said here and put it to work for herself. She wants to know how she can make her ym more committed. I personally think that is a lot to ask of someone when you yourself are in a committed relationship, even if it is loveless. How can you ask someone for something, that you yourself are not willing or able to give? I also understand HeatherLynn's point of view, and see all sides of this. It is much more complicated than we know, I'm certain. Whether we want to admit it or not.. her marriage IS an important factor here, and could be the very reason for her ym's lack of committment. How different our words would be here, were she not married.

Ulitmately, I&G2000 has to do what is best for her life. For her own sanity and well being. Things need to be rectified. She has to be able to eventually stand on her own. Regardless of husband or boyfriend.

First off, Harrison.... we all have opinions that differ, and I've seen yours given freely.... so let's all play nice!! :-) In a public forum, any poster must accept whatever is posted with a grain of salt and retrieve the parts that most apply to their needs. In real life we ask advise from people, and either heed some of it or ignore other parts. Same applies here. ;)

As far as the poster goes, staying married out of obligation is not foreign to me. I did it for 15yrs for my childrens sake. Ultimately, I am finding in hindsight that they were more damaged by me staying. Hopefully, I've left soon enough to teach them that self-respect and receiving love (as well as giving it) is more important that being bound in fear and remaining a victim.

I had a neighbor friend once who was married most of her life. At 50, her husband (who she loved dearly) had a brain tumor, and ended up in a vegetative state for a good ten yrs before he died. She took care of him, and remained a good wife. But in that rare instance, I could justify her seeking out companionship on the side.

The thing is when you are married, you cannot devote your total being to another (time, emotion, etc.).....and people that tend to involve themselves with married people *usually* go that route because it's safe. They are possibly afraid of committment, true intimacy (that comes from committment) or a multitude of reasons. I agree that the y/m didn't stick around 3yrs for JUST FOR SEX and must care to some degree.

It is possible the y/m is scared enough to stand on his own two feet in this world, and petrified to feel like another person is LEANING ON HIM for their happiness and wellbeing. That is scary to someone at any age. Most people want an *equal partnership* where either person can survive on their own and "choses" to be there, but doesn't HAVE to.

Relationships tend to have their boundaries and expectations drawn early on. In her instance, 3yrs of solidifying those boundaries is going to be hard to turn around. It's a comfortable pattern for him, and he probably cares but doesn't know how to transition to something more solid. He also probably lacks a certain amount of respect for her not taking responsibility for her own happiness. How many of you have had real friends that wanted everyone else to tell them how to live their lives? How much respect did you have for them, though you cared deeply for them?

If she wants to make changes, she should plan it out based on being alone. It's scary, but doable. Find various support systems, whether it's friends, family, social system, etc........and jump in. Tell the y/m you want to heal and make your life better for both of you...... but don't expect him to be your pillar of strength! BE YOUR OWN PILLAR OF STRENGH! I bet you are stronger than you give yourself credit for!!

If he sees her becoming independent and stronger, he'll either do two things. Transition to a more equal, committed relationship out of choice, respect and a natural progression........ or he'll run. If he runs, don't sweat it..... it just means he wasn't right for you. One door closes, means another usually opens.

I promise that the light at the end of tunnel is there, even if you can't see it. Your y/m can be a source of encouragement to get your life together by simply being there as he has been, but he may not be at the end of the tunnel waiting....... you might find something better there....... some peace of mind.

When you get your life straight....... the right man will show up and share it with you!! You FIRST have to become *the very person* you so desire your partner to be, then they will appear.

I hope that sounded supportive and not judgemental!! =P

{{hugs to all}}

Gypsy

Gypsyheart, great post. I believe you said pretty much the same thing Harrison said just differently. He said it from the man's stand point and you said from a woman's standpoint as did everyone else.

Personally, if I'm seeking advice, I want the truth. Whether it hurts or its judgemental will be up to me and how I handle it. I can sit here and whine, gosh, she was so judgemental, or I can choose a different way of thinking and say, fine, I don't like the way she/he said it, but she/he has a point, let me think on this some more. Its up to you how you want to handle the truth according to our experiences, but maybe like Jack Nicholson says "You can't handle the truth".

The truth of the matter is, it is solely our opionion. We're not doctors, therapists, marriage counselors or psychologist, what we do have is experiences, thoughts, hard lives, baggage, husbands, boyfriends, children, animals, mortgages, marriages, divorce, separation, hurt, anger, love, and most importantly joy and we can only give others the essence of that wisdom learned in life stories. I don't know about any of you, but dang that's alot of life and wisdom to pass around. I'll take it any day then be a sap and ignorant, so thanks for your input.

Paris

Just a reminder....Ageless does not support, nor does it tolerate, personal attacks on other members, be they direct or implied.

"The main rule to stick by is just treat people like you would want to be treated. Very biblical, I know, but it's true. You have to be polite and considerate to anyone you meet. There's a tendency on the Internet to abuse your anonymity and go all-out insulting people, but that's just sad. Always consider whether your comment may be appropriate, and whether it could cause hurt feelings. Be careful about how your words come across — misunderstandings can be common. Remember that even though you can't see them, there are people on the other end of the line. If you wouldn't say it to someone's face, chances are you shouldn't say it here either."

from yourhtmlsource.com on netiquette

I see how you feel Bedazzled but it is all in the presentation. In your hypothetical situation of the car driving towards the cliff do you shout "Hey STUPID! Wake up you idiot!! You are driving toward the cliff. You need to get your head out of your butt and pull the emergency brake! What is it with you idiot drivers??" Hmm...that would get the point across but in such a nasty way.

I don't mean this to be an anti Bedazzled post as I can see this is an issue that you feel strongly about and that you aren't just saying these things to be mean. I do understand where you are coming from, as I say I have been cheated on and it is a horrible thing - but it can also be a sign of strength to let go of the anger you feel and move on from it.

I also wanted to point out that there is a difference between saying that you don't like something or that you disapprove and saying that something sickens and disgusts you. One is a comment or an opinion the other is beginning to be hurtful, which I'm sure you didn't mean to be :)

Bedazzled, this last post of yours is a post that will stay, because it's not disrespecting anyone.
Ageless is a moderated site, and for us, politeness is important. You can give your opinion, but you can't be rude. We are not going to spend our days deleting posts from the same member. If a member doesn't follow the simple rules we have here, and they are really simple, then I guess he has to go. Unfortunately some people come here with the intention of imposing their own standards.

We have the right to delete posts, but we prefer not to, we would rather trust our members that they will keep a good level of civility and politeness.

When you came here for the second time, as Belladonna, you told us your story about how some people were rude to you and you left the site. I don't remember or didn't see what people told you, what it was that touched your sensibility. You see, maybe some people would say, oh she has to grow some skin, but for you it was not kind, not fair and completely useless. I am sure you didn't need that and that's why you left.

It's not difficult to follow common sense. We all know when we are being aggressive. There's absolutely no need for that. Our life doesn't depend on it, and a person is not likely to listen to us if we don't talk to her in a caring way. This is not a competition to show who's the best to give advice or to pull ears. This is all about being supportive with the few means we have.

When we can't stand the subject and we are too sensitive about it, there are ways to expressing it without aggressivity. And if we can't do that, we should just remain quiet.

When we can't stand the subject and we are too sensitive about it, there are ways to expressing it without aggressivity. And if we can't do that, we should just shut up.

ummmm,did someone say RUDE?????now telling someone to "just shut up"if they are too sensitive about a subject that they may sound too aggresive in a post ....is not so nice....:mad:

why don't some of you just start telling people EXACTLY what to post and how to write it...that should make for some REALLY boreing,phoney BS......
I really hate to see a "public lashing" of someone just because they had an opinion...it's lame..I've seen people say much worse here,but I guess it depends on who it is.:eek:

oh and by the way...I do consider this post "support"...support for someone who took a "public lashing"...

I am talking about rude people in general, that's why I used "we". If you (you in general) are not rude, you can post whatever you want.
The rude posts have been deleted, you won't find them here, and we hope, as I said, we won't have to do this again.

This is not going to be negotiated in Ageless, because this is the basis for a healthy environment.

And if being polite is boring, yes, we want to be boring in this site.

And for the shut up, I'll gladly edit it.

Originally posted by nafadda
ummmm,did someone say RUDE?????now telling someone to "just shut up"if they are too sensitive about a subject that they may sound too aggresive in a post ....is not so nice....:mad:

why don't some of you just start telling people EXACTLY what to post and how to write it...that should make for some REALLY boreing,phoney BS......
I really hate to see a "public lashing" of someone just because they had an opinion...it's lame..I've seen people say much worse here,but I guess it depends on who it is.:eek:

oh and by the way...I do consider this post "support"...support for someone who took a "public lashing"...

What about the poor woman who came here looking for support and got a lashing? She specifically asked not to be judged or comments made regarding her situation (which we still do not know if it is CHEATING or an arrangement) and yet instead of just not replying...she got a public lashing from some who could not honor her request. If this issue is so troublesome to someone...they can start a thread called "I just hate cheaters" or some such title. Just leave alone the woman who came here looking for help.

Bedazzled, nobody here has ever defended cheating. We just didn't touch the subject, because she asked us not to. The discussion is not on is it right to cheat or not, it's is it right to discuss it when a person asked us to avoid it or should we go ahead and discuss it anyway.

We can open a thread on cheating, as Tru suggested. I am sure we'll agree on lots of things.

"Now I am not saying that what she is doing is right or smart"

Then we agree.

"but I don't think she deserves the same slamming that I would see with your sterotype "hussie" material. Just something to think about."

At no point did I slam her - in fact, I'd be interested in someone quoting the part of my post that they found offensive. Quite frankly, I don't even believe in the concept of "****" or "hussy," either - I have no problem with people having multiple sex partners. I would have said the same things to a man as I said to her - I see no difference in this regard.

I did point out that I'm divorced, and that my ex cheated on me, so people could see any biases in my viewpoint.

Again, all I did was point out the irony of how cheaters always preface their statements with "don't judge me." I also gave my opinion of cheating in a separate post, in reference to a post someone else made. What exactly did I say about cheating that everyone finds so offensive - that there's no excuse for it???

Perhaps I take marriage a bit more seriously than others here, but I do strongly believe that if you want to sleep with someone else and are unhappy in your marriage, you should get divorced first. I don't think anyone here disagrees - most of the people who have given her advice have said the same thing. If, as you note, she has some sort of understood, tacit agreement with her husband that the marriage is no longer valid and that they're free to sleep with others, then that's fine - I have NO problem with that, because both have consented.

I really didn't tear into her at all - I basically gave the same advice everyone else did, though evidently some didn't like my "tone." I define "cheating," "infidelity," "indiscretions," "straying," etc. as synonyms - different words, same act.

- Jesse

So, posting our opinions of your rude behavior is trolling you but your posting your opinion after being asked not to comment on her situation is not? Huh? Btw....

I WILL SAY AGAIN..WE DO NOT KNOW IF IT IS CHEATING OR AN ARRANGEMENT!!! MAYBE HE IS IMPOTENT AND TOLD HER TO GET A LOVER....MAYBE HE IS DYING AND KNOWS OF HER OTHER LIFE BUT SHE STAYS FOR NOW..YOU DON'T KNOW!!!

Start a thread called "Cheating" and stay off hers. SIMPLE MANNERS MA'AM.

: pulls hair upon reading this thread:: Can I ask exactly, what is trolling? I thought that was where you go and look for trouble? Once I find out what trolling is I may comment further.

"As far as I know, Jesse, she never mentioned how her husband is, who is abusing who, better than that, she never mentioned IF someone is being abused."

That's precisely my point. She never mentioned that her husband is abusing her or anything, so (for the purposes of offering advice) I'm not going to assume that he is. That was my point about your posts relating to your mother and friends - that you're bringing spousal abuse into the question of whether or not I was being fair in "judging" her situation when no mention of spousal abuse was made.

"So all of your IFs make no sense here."

Yes, they do. My "IFs" were directed at the sudden way that everyone assumed that I was jumping all over her and slamming her. For example, if she had said that she likes to belittle her husband for fun just to see him cry, but doesn't want to be judged for that, yet wants relationship advice, I suspect that many of y'all's responses would have come across as sounding pretty "judgmental." My point was that "I'm cheating on my husband, but don't judge me, I need relationship advice" is pretty much the same thing. YOU might not judge cheating as being equivalent to mental abuse, for example, but I would say that it's just as bad. I wouldn't say that it's bad to live in a polyamorous mixed-orientation sex commune, but you might think it is. My point was that all of the exhortations to "not judge people if they ask you not to" would fall away if the action they took is one that you personally deemed to be heinous (such as rape or something).


"Unless you know what you are talking about, better not to make assumptions."

I think that that's good advice for you, too, and everyone else. As far as cheating, bad marriages, divorce, etc. goes, I DO have direct experience with that. I'm not going to assume anything about her relationship with her husband other than what she said - and since she did say that she was committing "infidelity" and that she knew it was wrong, that would indicate that her husband has NOT consented to an open marriage or polyamorousness.

"And if someone comes here saying stupid things as you mentioned, Jesse, about beating, raping, whatever, don't you think we would know exactly what to do?"

What WOULD you do in that case? I would consider an admission of cheating to be as bad as an admission of emotional or mental abuse, at the least. My points about people saying that they were physical abusers were an attempt to point out that every person on here has limits beyond which they're going to "judge" the other person, so this business about "we shouldn't judge anyone on here" wouldn't hold water in all situations. I doubt that anyone would have a problem with "judging" a murderer or a rapist. I doubt that anyone would have trouble "judging" someone who was a purposeful mental/emotional abuser. I equate cheating with the the latter.

"If I were you, I would stick to what she says and if she wants advice on that, that's what we can do, more than that would be imposing ourselves and our uninvited opinions on her."

I did give advice on what she says, and made no assumptions about what she didn't say. I also pointed out that I find it ironic that cheaters (and she admits being one) always preface requests for advice with "don't judge me." In a reply to another poster, I pointed out my own viewpoints on cheating. At no point did I say that she was a bad person. At no point did I jump her. At no point did I portray myself as someone better.

- Jesse

EVERYONE here is entitled to opinions and suggestions.. it's not WHAT is said, it's HOW it is said. No one has to sugar coat, but no one should be disrespectful either.

"When I used my mother's and my friends' examples, my point was that sometimes women stay in a bad marriage for a good reason."

We have differing opinions on what is a "good reason" to stay in an abusive marriage - I sure wouldn't call retaining residence in a country one of them (if that's the only reason), but all of that's beside the point. I'm not questioning her decision to remain in her marriage - I'm questioning her decision to cheat. Two separate issues. Just because the marriage is unhappy doesn't mean the people involved have a license to cheat (note that I don't consider it "cheating" if they've both agreed that it's okay to sleep with others).

"Whether you would do the same or not, please don't tell me you wouldn't without having stepped on their shoes."

I won't argue that, though on the other hand it would be difficult to discuss anything (or give advice to anyone) without having been in that same situation yourself. I do know a little bit about this subject, having been in a similar situation - have you been married and been cheated on? If nobody can comment on a woman's decision to stay in an abusive marriage without having been in one themselves, how can you comment on a cheating situation without having been cheated on yourself? I'd rather not say that nobody can comment on a situation without having experienced it themselves, whether that situation is staying in an abusive marriage or choosing to cheat.

"It's more something like asking someone "Would you ever steal?" You know you might, given the circumstances."

I disagree. I might steal to protect myself (or my children or wife) physically, to prevent starving to death, etc. In other words, to save lives. There can be good reasons to steal. I have yet to hear of ANY good reason to cheat.


"And if a woman in that situation falls in love with someone else, good for her, you may call it cheating, I call it surviving while living a real hell, from which she can't escape."

People who choose to stay in abusive relationships CHOOSE to stay in them, in general. The alternative choices (not sending children to college) might not be attractive ones, but it's still a CHOICE to stay in that marriage, and not divorce and marry the person she really loves. I'm not judging that choice, just recognizing it as a CHOICE, and not something "from which she can't escape." All of that, however, is beside the point - the original poster didn't indicate anything about being abused, so the whole thing about women in abusive relationships shouldn't have entered the conversation to begin with.

"Commenting on how judgmental a post mentioning something that she deliberately asked us to leave aside:"

She's doing something that she admitted was wrong. It's central to the whole situation at hand. Again, if she had said "I like to belittle my husband to see him cry" (which I would consider to be on the same level as cheating), would you be jumping all over me for supposedly "jumping" her? Would you leave aside any discussion of ANY hurtful thing that a poster admitted to doing simply because (s)he asked you to, even though it's central to the whole issue at hand???

"for me it's not the problem of judging alone that represents a problem here, it's also bringing that sensitive subject to discussion, against her will, that means a lack of savoir-vivre, politeness, sensitivity."

There's no need to get insulting and say that I have a lack of savoir-vivre, politeness, or sensitivity, simply because we have different ways to giving advice or discussing subjects - THAT is rude. At no point did I attack the woman. At no point did I say that she was a bad person. SHE brought up the fact that she was cheating. SHE admitted that she knew that it was wrong. SHE asked us for our advice on how to deal with the situation that has arosen because of her cheating. If it was such a sensitive subject, why did she bring it up at all????????


someone else said:

"Did she SAY she was cheating on her husband?"
Yes, she did indicate that. She said that she knew that what she was doing was wrong - if she and her husband had an agreement, then she wouldn't have said that.

"Maybe I am all wrong here and she has posted that she is in fact "Cheating" but she still did not deserve a blasting out."

Point out where anyone "blasted her out" - please quote the "blasts." I haven't seen that yet.

"We do not know all the facts. Unless I missed something."

We know what she told us, and can only give advice on that. I only commented on what she told us. I made no assumptions about abuse or anything like that. If she hadn't said that she knew it was "wrong," I would have asked her if she and her husband had an agreement (though I suspect that she would have pointed out that fact instead of saying "don't judge me" had that been the case).


Someone else said:

"The lady that started this thread shouldn't be surprised that people were turned off by her seeming indifference to marriage vows. Like Joe said, she wants to have her cake and eat it too."

I agree. I'm still curious about whether the comments would be different if she were a 50-year-old man who was cheating with an 18-year-old woman.


"Just as some here shouldn't scorn her with fire and brimstone,"

I haven't seen anyone do that yet - I would be interested in seeing quotes to that effect.

"the rest of us shouldn't bend over backwards to portray her as a victim, or survivor of a "living hell"."

I agree 100%. Unfortunately, there's often a "woman as victim" assumption (even by women). If a man had made this same post, I doubt that we'd be hearing about all the abused men who are "forced" to stay in unhappy marriages.

- Jesse

:confused: :confused: :confused: ....and I thought "trolling" was someone who collected those cute little pug nosed,freaky haired little trolls that are soooooo cute?????you mean it's a BAD thing:confused: ....damn ,and all those times I was called a troll here and I thought it was just cause' people thought I was cute:eek: :(


you didn't answer my questions. again let me ask them:

ummmmm,I think she did when she said:No Nessa...I was speaking for myself


[Nessa]I realize YOU were speaking for yourself. Of course you couldn't speak for anyone else. To do so would be beyond presumptious. of course saying others feel like you and just don't say it means you either have received 'bravo' pms or emails or are making an assumption. I'm going to hope you have received those PMs and would hate to think of you as presumptuious or arrogant.[/QUOTE]

well you can rest assured now since I was one of those that PM'd her that she WAS NOT being presumptuious or arrogent...see ,the thing is when I was attacked on here many times for an opinion,I would receive all these "bravo"pm's from people who were to afraid to say things in my defense in the open,and though I did apreciate the pm's ,I always wondered what it was they were afraid of,,,then I realized it was that they were afraid of not being seen with the "popular" opinion,regardless of how they really felt...well I swore I would NEVER be like that.

I guess I have to say, that I'm still wondering why someone posts a question, creates all kinds of debate.. and not once responds to any of it. It would sure help if she did. :confused:

"She wants to know how she can make her ym more committed. I personally think that is a lot to ask of someone when you yourself are in a committed relationship, even if it is loveless. How can you ask someone for something, that you yourself are not willing or able to give?"


VERY good point.


"I had a neighbor friend once who was married most of her life. At 50, her husband (who she loved dearly) had a brain tumor, and ended up in a vegetative state for a good ten yrs before he died. She took care of him, and remained a good wife. But in that rare instance, I could justify her seeking out companionship on the side."


I think that that particular situation would justify it, too (see an earlier post where I commented on a similar theoretical situation). Since the man was brain dead, I wouldn't even call it "cheating." I consider "cheating" to be going behind a spouse's back - if the spouse is no longer mentally alive, or there is an agreement (a la open marriage) in effect, I wouldn't call it cheating.

Someone else said:

"Personally, if I'm seeking advice, I want the truth. Whether it hurts or its judgemental will be up to me and how I handle it. I can sit here and whine, gosh, she was so judgemental, or I can choose a different way of thinking and say, fine, I don't like the way she/he said it, but she/he has a point, let me think on this some more. Its up to you how you want to handle the truth according to our experiences, but maybe like Jack Nicholson says "You can't handle the truth"."

Another good point. There are also sometimes communication styles that differ between men and women - we (men) can often be direct and get to the point of the matter, and it isn't intended to be rude (or even considered rude by other men) - we're just getting to the point of the matter. I realize that this section of the board is pretty much dominated by female posters, but it's designed for posters of both sexes - we need to be flexible in the ways we interpret people's directness (or indirectness), especially since we don't have vocal tones, facial expressions, etc to go by.

Someone else said:

"Just a reminder....Ageless does not support, nor does it tolerate, personal attacks on other members, be they direct or implied. "

Where did this happen? Evidently there were some deleted posts, so the very generalized comments by other posters (talking about people being rude without referring directly to the rude person) makes it sound like the responses are directed towards the posts that can be viewed. There have been several critical posts that appeared to be directed at my posts - were they directed at the ones that have been deleted, instead? It's hard to know without people using quotes in their responses.



"What about the poor woman who came here looking for support and got a lashing?"


I'd still be interested in seeing the quotes of this "lashing." Are you referring to my posts, to the ones of Bedazzled that we can still see, or the deleted ones???


"She specifically asked not to be judged or comments made regarding her situation (which we still do not know if it is CHEATING or an arrangement)"

She said "Please no comments on my infedelity" - infidelity is cheating. If they had an "arrangement," I'm sure she would have stated that (and headed off any "judgment"), and would not have called it "infidelity."

"and yet instead of just not replying...she got a public lashing from some who could not honor her request."


What was the lashing? WHO did not honor her request? When you aren't specific, it's hard to tell what posts you're referring to.


If any of the folks I have responded to were actually referring to deleted posts (and didn't indicate so), then just ignore my response. I would appreciate it in the future if people would be specific, rather than talking in general terms about "public lashings" - if you have a problem with something someone else said, quote the relevant section of their post, so there's no confusion.

- Jesse

"then I realized it was that they were afraid of not being seen with the "popular" opinion,regardless of how they really felt...well I swore I would NEVER be like that."

Good point, and good decision. When someone posts a question (or statement) to a message board, they're opening it up to public comment. There's no problem with having a standard of civility on a message board (that's what moderation is all about, after all), but getting upset because people have differing opinions, and are willing to state them, goes against the very nature of asking for advice and comment. Sometimes those opinions are going to be "what you are doing is a bad thing, and you should stop doing it." Some people will be more tactful than others, some will be more direct than others, some will ask more questions than others, etc.

It is very dangerous to try to read "tone" into an email - the same words can have very different meanings when accompanied by facial expressions and such, and we can't see those on here - we should go by what is said, not by what we assume the "tone" to be. For example, I'm not Christian, but have grown up around a lot of Bible-thumping fire-and-brimstone types (not my immediate family). When someone starts talking about Christian belief in relation to an issue on the board, my first reaction is to hear the words in the preachy "tone" that I hear from neighbors and distant relatives. I always try to step back, though, and remember that the same statements (and Bible quotes) can be made by a kind, well-intentioned person who never meant to be preachy at all. We have to make allowances on message boards for our lack of ability to see and hear the person "talking."


Someone else said:


"I guess I have to say, that I'm still wondering why someone posts a question, creates all kinds of debate.. and not once responds to any of it. It would sure help if she did."



- Jesse

"I am the MEANIE on the board, I am the one who opened
the proverbial Pandora's box of all this controversy because
I spoke up and said *HEY....MY OPINION is that what she
is doing is wrong! * and the golden oldie *she's cheating,
how can you help someone on a path of self destruction?*"

Yep, that's my point! I wrote a number of posts defending my prior posts, when those posters may have actually been referring to yours (which I couldn't see, since they'd been deleted). It's very important on message boards to use quotes, or to at least address the person who made the original post. If the posts I replied to had said "Bedazzled shouldn't have given her a lashing" instead of "people shouldn't have given her a lashing," that would have saved a LOT Of confusion. It would also have been helpful to have had a post noting that there had been a deletion (unless there was and I missed it).

- Jesse (who has moderated a lot of boards, chat rooms, and mailing lists in the past)

"EVERYONE here is entitled to opinions and suggestions.."

Not on here, evidently - add me to the list of victims who have had posts deleted. I find it interesting that I was not disrespectful to anyone in the post, didn't use bad language, etc. At no point in the past did a abuse the original poster, either. The deleted post simply continued the discussion of what sorts of posts are appropriate and why people responded the way they did (the same stuff that everyone else is discussing right now). Evidently I'm suspected of trying to "stir things up" (i.e. have a differing opinion) and straying off-topic. That's ironic, since this thread has long since ceased to be about giving the original poster advice (since she abandoned the thread) - just about every post past the first 2 pages is "off-topic," yet it was mine that was deleted.

I really like this message board, but if I'm going to stay around I'd like to know why my post was deleted, but others (like the bit about staying in abusive marriages, which were also off-topic) were not. I've been on Internet since long before the Web (started in the mid-80s), and have been the moderator of a LOT of groups. I always considered myself a moderator, NOT an editor - my job was not to cull out opinions that I didn't like, but rather to stop people who were obviously trying to be abusive. If a portion of a post is off-topic, it's best to simply point out (in a subsequent post) that such-and-such is off-topic, and to ask that it be started in another thread. This approach also helps to remind EVERYONE of whatever guidelines for posting are in place. Deleting the post altogether removes any portions of it that are ON topic, as well.

Maria, you stated earlier that you don't delete posts lightly - I would certainly consider this deletion to be a "light" reason for deletion. It makes me wonder what other things have been deleted, simply because you didn't like them. I would have no problem with it being deleted for being "off topic" or for "stirring things up" if that same guideline was applied equally to everyone, not just to people who disagree with you, or point out that your abusive-in-marriage posts were off-topic, too.

- Jesse

I'm sure that posts about trolling will be deleted, too, and the posters will be asked to start a new thread, right? After all, they're off-topic, and "stir things up" just as much as my deleted post did, especially since I was told to start a new thread if I wanted to discuss cheating (which is, strangely, an issue in the original post). It's only fair to apply the same rules to everyone - that is, after all, what moderation is all about.

[post-note: I don't really have a problem with the discussion the the definition of trolling, or the two posts that discussed it - just using it to point out that deletion for being "off-topic" seems to be a very subjective thing, since most of this thread has been off-topic from the third page or so - people on all sides of the issue have been off-topic]

- Jesse

If someone asks you not to comment on a part of their post, and you feel you can not answer their question or address their concern without doing so, then just don't post on their thread. IF this had been a thread about infidelity then all comments should be welcome as long as no one member is singled out for ridicule. I just don't understand why someone who has such strong feelings on a subject matter just doesn't start their own thread on the topic so they can get it off their chest.

It was just rude and uncalled for to use her post as a forum for this means of expression of your feelings on a particular topic. I still say she does not say she IS cheating. She says "infidelity" in a way that leaves it open to mean "sex with someone else when married". Whether that is by mutal agreement or not we really don't know and she just did not want to get into all that.

Bedazzled, I am not trying to use you as a way to get attention. I am merely feeling the need to defend this member who came here for some answers. She might be wrestling with this and with some kind, loving posts that NO WAY condone her situation, she may have come to the conclusion that she should settle things with her husband before going any further.

Sometimes people do things that they know are wrong and need to find a way out of the mess they got themselves in. Not everyone can have such strong willpower or convictions. It is the way of the human race. Hopefully we grow along our journey but some do not. I can assure you, assaulting people with a tirade will generally not win anyone over who is already on the other side. It will only make most people more defensive and find more justification.

I guess this thread has been good to show us some distinct personalities here on this board. I still hope that the moderators continue to fight to keep this a "Nice" place. A "safe" place for men and women to come and feel like they can post any terrible thing they are feeling or may have done and not be attacked. Even if that attack is disguised as an "opinion". It is still very hurtful and ugly.

I have always been leary of message boards because of this type of situation. I still have faith that Ageless is a kind place and this type of disrespect of someone will not be tolerated. I also hope that the opinions about things like cheating will be able to be discussed openly just not whilst trampling directly on someone's post.

Rude is still rude. Make yourself feel better at someone else's expense. I am glad I did not.

Guys ...the author of this infamous thread is online right now, reading the replies, Lets hope she has the curtesy to come over and clarify the points that you all are arguing about.
Hi there, I&GH2000!!
how are you feeling today?:)

"It was just rude and uncalled for to use her post as a forum for this means of expression of your feelings on a particular topic."

Who, exactly, are you addressing here?

"I still say she does not say she IS cheating. She says "infidelity" in a way that leaves it open to mean "sex with someone else when married". Whether that is by mutal agreement or not we really don't know and she just did not want to get into all that."

Merriam-Webster defines infidelity as "lack of belief in a religion" or "unfaithfulness to a moral obligation : DISLOYALTY b : marital unfaithfulness or an instance of it " A polyamorous situation (an "agreement") is not infidelity - it's an alternate form of marriage. Had that been the case, she most likely would have pointed it out to avoid any "judging" that might result otherwise.


"I guess this thread has been good to show us some distinct personalities here on this board."


Every personality is distinct.


"I still hope that the moderators continue to fight to keep this a "Nice" place. A "safe" place for men and women to come and feel like they can post any terrible thing they are feeling or may have done and not be attacked."


ANY terrible thing? Murder? Child abuse? Purposeful emotional abuse? Absolutes can be problematic.

"Even if that attack is disguised as an "opinion". It is still very hurtful and ugly."

I still have yet to see any attack on the woman. Maybe there was one in some of the deleted posts, but it's hard to say, since nobody can see them. Without being able to view any attacks, I can't agree that there have been any.


"I have always been leary of message boards because of this type of situation. I still have faith that Ageless is a kind place and this type of disrespect of someone will not be tolerated."


Again, who are you addressing? Bedazzled? Me? What "type of disrespect?" It's hard to know what you're talking about without quotes or specific references.


"I also hope that the opinions about things like cheating will be able to be discussed openly just not whilst trampling directly on someone's post."

So, again, if she had said "I like to belittle my husband until he cries, but don't judge me, I want advice on my marital problems," then nobody should address the issues that surround the fact that she's emotionally abusing the husband? There is little difference between the two, but I suspect that we wouldn't be having this discussion if she had stated that.

Similarly, I have yet to hear any comment on my question about whether everyone would be saying the same things if the genders were reversed (a 50 year-old man who is married sleeping around with an 18-year-old woman). Again, I suspect the answers would have been very different.

- Jesse

"Guys ...the author of this infamous thread is online right now, reading the replies, Lets hope she has the curtesy to come over and clarify the points that you all are arguing about."

That would be great (and a lot of this could have been avoided if she'd responded a lot earlier). Unfortunately, it's four hours later, and I don't see her online - I guess she decided to continue being silent.

- Jesse

I'm starting a new topic on courtesy and opinions and such in the chit-chat area so we can move that part of the discussion over to a more appropriate thread title. This particular thread has been off-topic for a long time now (if you define "off-topic" in a very narrow sense). Though it's been my experience that it's natural for this sort of thread (one where the original poster never re-posts or answers questions) to move into more generalized discussions of the issue at hand (and I have no problem with that), there is an argument to be made for moving further discussions into more topically-appropriate threads. Since there's really no point to this thread anymore, given the original poster's reluctance (or refusal, or whatever) to post again, perhaps it should simply be locked, rather than deleting posts?

- Jesse

Very kind of you to follow my idea (and Tru's) :), Jesse, about opening a thread on cheating, and thanks for the suggestion, but we are not locking threads here, people with yet different ideas are free to come and post.

I have a few things to say here....This thread literally make me angry, and I am a hard person to anger.

1. I have spoken to I&G in private, both the last time she came and posted here, and this time. She does want to post to the thread to thank the people who gave her advice, but she feels quite badly that this post stirred up such a controversy.

2. We have all of these people on here discussing their right to voice an opinion without being attacked, but what about I&G's right to post here for advice without being attacked?

3. There is much more to this lady's situation than you can can possibly understand from her post....She did not want to post all of her personal details to this thread about her situation, and since she could not, this is why she asked not to discuss the "infidelity" issue, but instead wanted to discuss the young man issue.

I want her to post to this thread. I think the saddest part of the whole deal is that....she never even commented to me about the rude comments to her, only felt badly that her thread caused such a turmoil.

Lets try to start this over.....I think there are a great bunch of people on this site, and I think she has gotten and can continue to get lots of great advice and make friends here and offer advice...but I don't blame her for feeling leery of posting to this thread...do you?

Originally posted by Nessa

I read all the threads. I just don't post to all of them. (Contrary to popular opinion).


Well, after that lovely post I think you should!

Originally posted by I&G2000
I would like to get advice from anyone who has ever been in the same or similar situation as myself. I am unhappilly married but still living with my husband, seperate rooms and so on..... My (b/f-Y/M) and I have a 30 year agegap. We have been seeing each other for three years now. I would leave my husband to live on my own if my Y/M could only reassure me that things wouldn't change between us. But he just can't. This situation is very stressfull for me. I just don't understand why he doesn't want me to live on my own so we could see each other more. Is there something I am not getting here? Please no comments on my infedelity, I do not wish to be judged here, I am simply looking for some good sound advice. :confused: :( I&G

Whew . . . just got through reading this whole thread and have been quiet on it for some time, but must address some points to the original post.

First, you ask for advice from someone "who has ever been in the same or similar situation as" you. That would be very hard to know since Joannalee has informed us that we don't know the whole story.

Then you proceed to tell us that you are married and you have a young man on the side . . . "cheating" . . . and to that issue you ask not to be judged. A very difficult thing not to do if you have been on the receiving end of the cheating and have ultra strong feelings on that issue.

After you tell us that you would leave your husband if your YM could only reassure you that things wouldn't change between you, you ask the question: "Is there something I'm not getting here?"

The way I see it, this is the only question you want us to respond to and, my dear, there is no way, from what you have told us, that we can even hope to ascertain what is in your YM's head. Only he can answer your question. A good relationship requires good communication and if you can't get an acceptable response to that question, then I would say that you don't have a solid relationship with your YM in the first place.

Nessa, I agree with you completely in that my definition of a troll is someone who starts a thread designed to start a row and then NEVER shows back up to clarify they were a serious poster.

Joannalee, you may have faith in this woman, but she certainly has caused a row and has never had the common courtesy to show back up and clarify anything or set anyone straight or to thank those who tried to give some advice based on the very limited information she gave in the original post.

I&G, my advice to you would be that if you want good advice, you need to give all the facts next time. My question to you is if you are able to leave this unhappy marriage, and you indicate that you can, why would you stay in it under any circumstances? It is very hard for me to not be disgusted when someone says to me "I am cheating, but please don't address that issue." Especially when it seems it is a very integral part of the problem you want help with. After all, if you were not married in the first place, please tell us what your problem would be???

If you are for real and really want our help, you need to step back in and clear some things up. And puleeeeeeze don't tell us that you are embarrassed to do that. After all, we don't know you and can't see you.

This board is made up of all kinds of people from all over the world. We all have opinions and we all have issues that push our buttons. It just so happened that you pushed some very sensitive buttons with the infidelity issue. We'll get over it and try to help you if we can, provided you really want help and want to share something we can possibly help with other than trying to read your YM's mind when you have told us virtually nothing about him.

Why do I get the feeling upon reading this and then reading a bunch of other past threads that if this woman had not asked people NOT to comment on her infidelity people probably wouldnt have!!!!

I think its almost human nature to do that, and Im not sure why.

She came to ask for support on her problem with her YM not on her marriage or why she might be cheating on her husband.

This is a board for YM/OW relationships NOT Shall we or shant we cheat.

Because I support her question and answer only the question she asked does NOT mean that I support cheating in general.

However I will not judge another whos situation I know nothing about!

And with all that talk a few posts back about christianity I know you all know that Jesus would be the last person to judge any of us here.

Kindness was his teaching. Kindness and love and forgiveness.

Not judgement.

Can we remember that?

Im sorry to post so late and maybe stir it up again. And I am not trolling or looking for an arguement with anyone who might have been judging her. Im just pointing out that this board is for support and advice not peoples judgements on each other for perceived wrong doings.

And also wanted to remind christians that jesus taught forgiveness and tolerance. (prolly gonna get blasted for that one somehow! lol)

I hope that she comes back to post . But she doesnt owe any of us any explanations :) If she wants to share more of why shes in this situation great, but its not owed to us just because her question started a big to do.

IN any case I wish her very good luck and hope that she finds peace and happiness and can PM me at anytime if she needs support.

I know an example of what he would have done. John 4:5-42

THE WOMAN AT THE WELL

The woman at the well had come to draw water at an odd hour to avoid the other townspeople. Her lifestyle made her unacceptable to them, a topic of gossip, so she kept to herself. She had married five times, possibly as a way of satisfying her own inner needs, but each time she found the relationship unfulfilling. Continually relying upon others to provide her with a sense of self-worth had left her lonely, ashamed and an outcast among her own people.

Then on the very day when there seemed no way left to improve her situation, she met Jesus, there beside the well. He was a stranger, not even of her kind, and yet he spoke to her respectfully. He refrained from mentioning her obvious feelings of inferiority and focused instead on the person rather than the problem. As the woman began to recognize Jesus' attitude of acceptance and how different he was from anyone she had ever met, she became more at ease and better able to listen to his words.

Only then did he speak about her lifestyle, but there was no condemnation in his remarks. Jesus' words opened her mind to understand how futile were her own outward attempts at finding fulfillment; and gave her the grace to recognize him as her real source of fulfillment. The trust relationship Jesus offered gave her the courage to accept herself and trust in him for the answers to her problems.

She had come to the well to draw water for a day and found acceptance for all her days. She had given Jesus a cup of water to drink and he had given her a sip of Living Water that restored her dignity to wholeness and gave her the freedom to live again. What a joy it is to find someone willing to love us in spite of ourselves. The remarkable effect Jesus had on the woman at the well instilled in her the desire to share with others the compassion and acceptance she had received.

Immediately she went to the very scoffers she had felt compelled to avoid only minutes before and said to them, "I have met a man who told me everything I ever did. Come and meet him". The townspeople could not help but notice the marked changes in the woman's attitude and demeanor. Shame had been replaced with self-respect; self-pity and loneliness had been transformed into compassion. Her remarkable transformation had opened the door for others to meet Jesus for themselves.

The point was missed by you sadly. I am sorry for your seeming full of bitterness. I hope you find peace.

Just in case anyone forgot what the original post was
Originally posted by I&G2000
I would like to get advice from anyone who has ever been in the same or similar situation as myself. I am unhappilly married but still living with my husband, seperate rooms and so on..... My (b/f-Y/M) and I have a 30 year agegap. We have been seeing each other for three years now. I would leave my husband to live on my own if my Y/M could only reassure me that things wouldn't change between us. But he just can't. This situation is very stressfull for me. I just don't understand why he doesn't want me to live on my own so we could see each other more. Is there something I am not getting here? Please no comments on my infedelity, I do not wish to be judged here, I am simply looking for some good sound advice. :confused: :( I&G i`ll post this with my head down in case I get hit by someone's handbag, interesting reading mind you..., however being a coward I won't mention you for a change lets talk about him (YM).
Maybe he's happy the way things are. Maybe he doesn't want to see you more. I had a girlfriend who I loved to pieces, until I went on holiday with her, all day every day we got on each others nerves, that little laugh she had, used to grate first thing in a morning and my constant joking suddenly came across as childish. We stayed together for quite a while but we knew it wouldn't last and actually are now just friends, our relationship works better when we don't see each other as much. After three years I'm sure you have gone beyond the point of lovey dovey kissy wissy and know quite a few of each others annoying habits. You moving out and living on your own suddenly drops a few boundaries and you will be expecting more of him. This is your first test of commitment and weather your relationship is actually going anywhere. Previous you would have been at arms length and on the back burner. I don't think it's an unreasonable request to ask that things between you wont change, nor is it a big move on his part, in fact come to think of it any move on his part, you're not asking to move in with him, or him with you. In fact your not asking him to do anything really are you ? and he can't even assure you of that !. What does that tell you about his relationship with you, and how he sees the future ?.
No I don't think you are missing anything in fact I think you can see quite clearly what the problem is, I also think you do really know why he doesn't want you to leave and live on your own but it's a horrible thing to have to think or accept, but go on be honest with yourself, re-read your post and I think it will hit you square in the face. You know the answer to your own question really, maybe all you need is someone to agree with you. Sadly I do.

Actually Bedazzled you had mentioned something about the bible in your first posts which is why I brought Jesus up.

First of all the story Tru posted is about right on the nail for what Jesus would do. He would not shake his finger at her or say that she sickens him. I was only saying, if were going to proclaim christianity, lets follow through all the way not just where it suits us to apply it (i.e. in this case infedility).

Tru's parable however said it better than I could have dreamed of saying it.

Judge not lest you be judged. And so on and so forth.

Am I christian? That is up for speculation. Do I believe that Jesus had kind loving and wonderful teachings? Yes 100%!

But I do believe you must not pick and choose which parts of the bibles teachings you use. The bible clearly states to be kind to one another, to forgive one another and to be tolerant of one another.

I believe that the woman asked us NOT to comment on her infidelity....................that means the part of our wisdom she was asking for was in relation to what the younger man was doing.
She was obviously having pain over his actions and wanting some insight and clarification so lets be sisters (as women should really be!) and help her out some rather than push her farther down.

I dont know, Im gonna go pull myhair more this thread has that effect on me!! (i know i know, then stop reading it !)

Heather

He would say "Judge not, except ye be judged." And when the woman who was about to be stoned... he said "let him with no sin cast the first stone". Then it was "Woman where are thy accusers"... she replyed "nowhere Lord" & THEN he said "go & sin no more". Do you guys know what the literal interuptation of "sin" is? It "path leading to death". Now, I think (just my personal belief, mind you) that it means spiritual death. I am not talking about burning in hell fire. I am talking about losing your connection in your spirit to your "higher self". I believe our highest good as people is the ability to love unconditionally. Now I am far from that mark but I believe the path to that.. is to "love our neighbor, as our self" & "do unto others as you would have them do unto you".

PS Someone asked me where I knew that hell came from a physical place where they threw sacraficed children into a volcano. Well, I used to be a Singles Minister and when I was called to "preach", I used prayer, Holy Spirit, and Strong's Concordance. You can look up every single word in the Bible and get the Hebrew and Greek basic meaning. You would be surprised at how different you would look at Christian religion if you did that.

I apologize if my minnie sermon offended anyone. When it comes to advice on Ageless, it is best to leave God out of it. But when your belief is that God is in the details... I let it creep out a little. If it's not your thing.... just take it with a grain of salt. (hidden meaning there... );)

Is it me or has this thread gone off subject ?

I never posted my advice to I&G...

We are all afraid of change at some points in our lives. You are afraid to take that step and leave your marriage without someone to fall back on. So, yes, when people say that you need to make the decision whether to leave your marriage or not based on only yourself, that is true. You need to ask yourself if you left your husband and were totally alone, would you still leave? You have to leave for you and only you, and the decision has to be made by you soley.

As for your y/m, you say it has been three years you have been seeing each other, and I am sure he is afraid of the change. Also he may be frightened at having a part in the breaking up of your marriage, and does not want you to base your leaving on him, but rather what it is you need to do.

And well, as said before, we can't really ask him to make a solid committment here, as you are not in a situation where you can offer a solid committment either. Once you decided, if you decided, to leave your husband and move out on your own, that would be the time to discuss committment with your young man.

I think the issue here is more of.....why is he seeming to pull away a bit now that you have talked about leaving your marriage.
Come back and post and let us know what is going on.

In all fairness, Bedazzled, this lady wasn't asking for anything from Jesus. She was simply asking this question...Now that she is talking of leaving her husband, why is her b/f of three years now acting like he is less sure of the relationship?

I think that was the jist of the whole thing.

just to add something real quick, I only brought up jesus because back in the original fray someone was talking about sinning or some such biblical thing. I was just saying.........if were going to discuss sinning lets make sure were not sinning ourselves first

;)

*hugs* Heather, I know. And who of us is without sin? We could just as easily go off on a whole thread about how premarital sex is wrong, which is also in the bible, and about half or more of us on the boards would be sinners. I know I would!

I just accept everyone the way they are....*smiles*

I just have this to offer to the poster.
You have TONS of advise here to choose from.
Your YM is probably just as afraid of a change as you are.....
You need to get out on your own, your own place, I know it is hard, but beleive