How much is too much?

I was doing some deep thinking recently and thought I'd throw this topic out for discussion among you fine people:)

I've had alot happen this summer and was wondering if there is a limit as to how much baggage someone can bring into a relationship? Here is a little personal background, just so you know the whole story. I was married 19 years to an abusive alcoholic, two kids together then finally divorced him 6 years ago. He has always been kind of sporadic with his child support payments and has never reimbursed me for having the kids on my insurance at work (eventhough he was court ordered to do so). He hasn't had a "real" job in many years. He has been in and out of several relationships but never remarried. And he has never been the ideal dad either. Now, fast forward to now. In June 2003 he made a dumb choice one night while driving, had a wreck and broke his back. He was hospitalized for about 6 weeks and being self employed, he had no health insurance. Sooo, they've done several ct scans on him checking out the progress of his back and now last week the doctors found a tumor on one of his kidneys and a small spot on the other one. From what I gather, they will have to completely remove the one kidney and the spot off the other.

So where am I going with all this? I'm just wondering with all the baggage us ow have (alot of us are divorced and have kids) is there a limit as to how much a ym will put up with in a relationship? I mean, just because we're divorced doesnt mean we never have to deal with our kids' dads again and all the problems that go along with them - whether its health problems or child support problems or whatever. I guess I'd like to know why any ym would get into something so complicated when he could start out in a simple relationship with someone his own age that doesnt have so much past history. And if they're willing to get mixed up in all this, is it worth it? Can love withstand having so many strikes against it from the start?

Have I made any sense at all here? Do any of you other ladies ever feel this way? Let the discussion begin...

Southerngal

Any man young or older that wants to be with you is in love...
The ones that can put up with all the shit are in love with you.....The ones that leave just can't take it..
When a man loves a woman he really really does love her, he loves her for her, her baggage won't make him leave.

By the way I haven't told many this but..........
My divorce became final Aug 4th this year.....Yep last week, it took almost 2 years and 20 grand later!!!
I have been with Will since Oct 2002.
He loves me, the life crisis just don't matter to him, he knows we will just work thru it one day at a time....
When a man really loves you he sees the problems as small hurdles that can be jumped over.
I don't know if I have helped much but I hope I did.

If it's real true love, he wants YOU and all you are. Kids, your past, your problems too. You have to make as easy on him as possible. Yes, he will have to deal with the kids father, but he should'nt have to worry about an ex husband.
The ex will always be the kids dad, but you are through with him now, and you have someone else in your life.
Let your y/m know you have to deal with the ex only because he is the kids father.For their sake, and not yours.
My step-kids were grown (in age anyway) when we married. But an ex can still be a problem. You HAVE to let the y/m know HE is #1 in your life now.
This worked for me. Best of luck......

In my humble opinion, that "baggage" is often what has made us the women we are today... and it was used as sort of a character building exercise (even though most of us would have liked to have gone another route to get there!) AND this is what many of our ym see in us: beautiful women who are not only survivors, but ones who have faced adversity with love, integrity and faith....women they admire and fall in love with.

"I guess I'd like to know why any ym would get into something so complicated when he could start out in a simple relationship with someone his own age that doesnt have so much past history. "

Two things, if I may contribute my opinion...

first...we don't avoid it because we realize that a lot of bad stuff happens in the world, and it could just as well be any of us in a similar position in the future. we would not want to have to be 'alone' just because we came across some bad luck, indeed, that's when we would most need someone to lean on as well....

second...we all do have our own baggage already...we all have some sort of 'issue' in our life that demands more attention than anything else...it would be quite a lonely world if everyone waited until their problems were solved before getting into a relationship with someone...

ok, one more thing as well....it makes us feel like we're 'helping' in a way...whether we actually are or not....and that makes us feel important...


I suppose it could become too much for one party at some point...but if it does, it will be clear and obvious to both of you when that time is....

We are who we are because of what we have lived through, it made us who we are. We all have baggage. I have seen personal ads from men who want women with "no baggage" or who say they don't have any baggage at all. And I say then, they haven't lived. I personally don't care about someone's baggage, my y/m has baggage, I have a tremendous amount of baggage, and yet we find we can talk about it and laugh about it and not let it affect our relationship.

Thats funny you bring it up today. (this might get a little long but i promise to get to the point!)

I had a rough night last night and a rough day today emotionally about my whole relationship I'm having right now. I have phases like the moon I guess........

When me and my sweety hung up last night, my heart fell . Im not sure why it just did. And I started to have somewhat of a panic attack about it all. Well I tried to write an email but ended up not sending it because once I read it , it sounded so "complicated" and heavy.

I missed him so much after hanging up I guess it just triggered a bunch of stuff inside of me.

So anyway, to your point. One of the big things in my mind is exactly what you just said. I have a pretty mean ex husband, he is 52 and very cynical. He just the other night told me "Your a fat old lady " (i gotta post a pic soon so you see how fat and old i look). Hes real mean verbally is the thing.
And hes sick too. If you PM me I will tell you the details of with what sort of illness. But its heavy duty. He is an alcoholic too. Plus he used to be abusive mostly verbally but on at least 3 occasions physically :(.

He causes a lot of pain in my life still. Its so hard . And yet sometimes I pity him :(.

Anyway, Today I was upset at my sweety because he has not made concrete plans to come see me and it was just starting to hurt and upset me. Ok, its only been about 5 months so Im being real impatient but still! I was having a bad day.

So I called him. And I was actually starting to cry which I dont usually do . And then we got through it and then, about an hour later, called him again. Upset again. He kept saying to me "Stop saying your sorry and stop saying your bothering me with this, i want to hear this, I want to know what makes you upset and when you tell me your sorry I feel like you must think Im some jerk who doesnt want to hear your problems".

One thing I said to him was "I guess Im just afraid if we wait too long to meet you'll be even more a part of my daily life then once you come out here and see all my responsibilities and how big my life is, how hard it can be, youll run screaming down the road, and right now I think I could handle it but in 3 months I think I will be so attached I might end up really sad if I lost you".

He gently laughed and said "Baby.....Why do you say that? Why do you always make your life out like its some huge horrible thing for me to take on? Is it your ex husband? F#@% him! Is it your business ? That sounds like fun to me. Is it that you have a child, well that is the times I feel sad is when I listen to you and her play or talk over the phone and I cant be there to be in on it all. That is when my heart falls down is when I know I cant be there right now to be a part of it all. I want to be there , i want to get there, but I cant until xyz happens." (one thing is a medical issue he has to take care of first, something that bothers him a helluva lot more than it bothers me).

Now unless hes one helluva con man actor I was floored at how sweet and loving that statement was. I have decided to give him benefit of the doubt until he lets me down, which he has not yet done.

I guess that we think we have all this baggage......when maybe in all actuality we have rich full lives full of the things some people are yearning for?? Kids, homes, jobs, love to give and sexually mature (thats a big plus!). Our "baggage" as we like to call it, cuz I sure call it that, seems to be another mans treasure.

Ok, some younger men see all this as baggage and a lot of work but they arent really the men we want right? Unless for a fling or something. For me its not about age anyway. If he was 75 and acted how he acts I would be equally as smitten, truthfully I would. I was floored how beautiful he is in his picture but I never expected him to be that good looking.

I think what we have been through is what makes us beautiful and I know I am much more beautiful today than when I was in my 20's. No doubt, that is the absolute truth. I can go without makeup now and look pretty, I could not do that in my 20's for some reason and look as good as I do now. Or maybe its my confidence. :)

The pic I will post here eventually will be my wedding pic and that is 6 years old and you know what? I look way better now!!

I think life made me prettier to be honest. Not that im some raving beauty, just that life made me look more real or something?

So next time you ask yourself why would some guy want to put up with it all, well hed want to put up with it because maybe like my one 20 year old male friend (platonic friend) said to me the other day, "Heather, maybe what you have to offer is what he wants and that noone his age can offer that to him".

Your kids, your ex and all that, maybe to some guy that is a rich life full of holidays, grand kids, traditions, love, being needed and maybe he needs that to complete him somehow?

I think that just trust in god, the universe or whatever higher power you believe in to bring to your life what you need. And who he/she brings will need what you have .

It seems to me that unless my guy is a real good actor what I have here is what he really wants..........i feel like it fulfills him somehow. I feel like he wants what I have.

Still keeping my heart in check, but every time I have a bad day like this and he sees me through it with such loving kindness my faith builds up one more step in him.
A lot of guys would have gotten upset and frustrated today because I kept hanging up saying I was fine then calling back an hour later only to hash it out again.

I told you all this to just show that I too have a lot of baggage and yet it seems someone out there thinks my baggage is some kind of treasure <g>

p.s. my ex does pay his child support but pulls many other shenanigans with money and he has a lot of it.

and I mean that!

Heather! Girl, I just have to say you wrote all of that so elequently! I can feel the emotion through the monitor!! ((((HUGS))))

These YM are so wonderful. Do all of you OW remember being 20? I had a crap childhood but I still had a fresh view on life. I was ready to tackle anything and felt anything was possible. I am also of the personality that I enjoy helping someone out when they seem overwhelmed with life and back in my 20's, when I had not had all of my current baggage piling up, I was more than willing to take on others.
Maybe these YM you speak of (and mine is in this catagory) are ready to grab hold of life. They are probably such genuine caring men that they enjoy being someone's support and baggage handler. It makes my guy feel needed in a way and he likes that feeling.
Then add the fact that they LOVE us and you get a wonderful equation. This is a beautiful fresh kind of love. I for one have to remind myself not to keep saying to my BF "Are you sure you know what you are in for?" etc.. He has finally convinced me that he is in for the long haul. He WANTS to be. They are a gift from God allright. I firmly believe that.

I have baggage....... lot's of it! I gave up a long time ago trying to hide it, and decided to view it as my badge of honor..... for surviving and growing in the midst of chaos. It made me who I am today, and if I appreciate the strength inside.....then I have to appreciate that I got that strength from the adversity I've seen. I read once, the strongest steel is forged with the hottest fire. ;)

Heather, I've been in your shoes......and can say 15yrs of abuse from the ex took it's toll on me emotionally...... but I'm healing nicely now. The emotional rollercoaster is part of the healing process and it'll get better.

One time I asked my current y/m (who is only 6yrs younger actually) why in the world would he want to be with me?......when I had so much baggage! Was divorcing a nasty person, who was trying to financially strip me down to nothing. Two small children caught in the middle....... me being needier than usual..... and so on.

His response was, "Honey, what you see as baggage I see as a gift." He is 33 and never married, no kids. He said he saw my kids and me as a package deal where he got exactly what he wanted and felt he missed out on..... a family to call his own. As far as me being broke, oh well.... me and him would just rebuild from the ground up and appreciate doing it together. It would be "ours" then. Me being needier than I'd like...... "hey, I want to nurture someone and take care of them!"

I guess my point is, some men would see all that as "too much"....but with the right person, it somehow turns into something they want and need. If it was too much for them, then they haven't the depth and charactor to be with me anyways.

The glass can be "half full" if you look hard enough. {Hugs} to everyone with a heavy load on their backs....... may you find solace in your inner strength and someone to one day share the load with.

Peace,
Gypsy~

Originally posted by Gypsyheart


I guess my point is, some men would see all that as "too much"....but with the right person, it somehow turns into something they want and need. If it was too much for them, then they haven't the depth and charactor to be with me anyways.


Ditto! (beautiful post btw Gypsy)

Thanks Tru! :)

On the drive into work, I realized there was one more thing I felt needed to be said here. Let's face it, we all have some kind of baggage....... I believe the key is "how we deal with it" that can determine whether it becomes "too much!"

I was previously involved with an 18yr old (online only) before my current guy. The y/m had more baggage than even I.... dealing with juvenile diabetes, horrible relationships with his family, struggles for independence, etc. HIS baggage become "too much" for me and I broke up with him........NOT because of the disease or the issues he had....... but because of *how* he dealt with them.

When dealing with our baggage, we need to ask ourselves....

1) Do we sit back and whine incessantly, playing the helpless victim?.... or do we take responsibility for our part in it and the choices we made that brought us to that point?

2) Do we expect someone else to "rescue us" and solve all our problems?..... or do we look for solutions and take action?

3) Do we get angry and take it out on the ones close to us, who probably have nothing to do with what made us angry to begin with?....... or do we stay focused on appreciating any support system we have and finding ways to work thru our anger?

These are just a few things that come to mind in my morning haze. Our baggage can be "too much" for some people who *do* have the depth and charactor...... when we don't deal with it in a healthy manner and try to learn and grow from it.

Just using my previous relationship as an example of where "his baggage" at 18 was more than *I* could handle.

It's all in the ATTITUDE, that makes the difference!

Gypsy~

I ditto the positive posts about you. You are one classy lady. You deserve (& will get!!) a classy guy.

I understand the misgivings. I have them also. Then sometimes I think "Do I have some disgusting habit, that I am not aware of, and that is why I am single at my age? " :p But when I am not PMS'ing I think about the ones that weren't right for me. So, I am waiting for my "classy" guy also.

Interesting side note, I had a guy I dated 14 years ago, track me down and call me. That's never happened before. I have no romantic feelings for him but it will be nice to see what he looks like and catch up on things (after I get back from Florida).

First of all, {{{{{HUGS}}}} and THANK YOU to all my wonderful friends who have helped me "see the light"!!

Tammy - congratulations on the divorce girl!! Its about TIME!! I hope you and William went out and celebrated lol. I cant believe you two have been together almost a year. I'm so happy for yall.

Cowboy tx - thank you for your good, sound advice. You have alot of "horse sense" and I always enjoy reading what you have to say. You're my inspiration cause you're living proof that this can all work out!!

Yep Suicideblonde - our trials are definitely what have made us the strong women we are today. Or should we give that credit to our ex husbands lol. Naaahhhhh:p And I'm glad I'm building character out of all this, but geez louise, I just wish it would lighten up sometimes!! It just never seems to end. But thanks for reminding me that it is making me a better person :)

Jordan - thanks for moving your oh -so -insightful and wise words here so everyone can read them. I do appreciate your friendship and what you had to say, for your perspective as a ym and you're absolutely right. None of us wants to end up alone just because some things that were beyond our control has left us with with quite alot of drama in our lives!! Otherwise, we might be pretty boring ;) .

Oh Heather - thank you for sharing your sweet story!! After I read it I just wanted to give you a big hug!! I think we could be "soul sisters" lol - we've had alot of the same things happen in our lives. And like you - eventhough my ex was a total jerk most of our married lives, I still find myself feeling sorry for him sometimes. I guess we just have alot more compassion than they do!! My new ym seems to be alot like yours too. He has told me so many of the same things yours has - that he wants to be there for me, to support me and back me up (which I've never had anyone do), and help me stand up to the people who walk all over me. He says he wants to be part of a family like mine and I always say "are you sure???????":eek: He always tells me he believes God has brought us together and that we just have to trust in Him to make everything work out. I've pretty much tried to push him away every way I can think of, but he has never budged. So I guess I just better start believing he is serious and isnt gonna run away just because I have baggage!! I hope your ym comes to see you soon and that he is everything you've dreamed of. You deserve someone like him to love you. Thats another thing my guy says - that its "my" turn to be loved and have some good stuff in my life and he wants to make that happen for me. He says I deserve it.

Trish - Thanks for your kind words and heck no, I wouldnt go back to being 20 for anything!!!:p

Tru - like I said up there, I have said wayyyy to many times "do you know what you're getting into". I gotta stop that!!

Gypsy - I've always considered myself a survivor too. I love that word!! I always try to see the glass as half full too and I dont like feeling sorry for myself. Sometimes I have a small "pity party" but it never lasts long lol. Cause dang it - I AM gonna get through this!!!!! WE ALL ARE :p

Sorry this is so long, but I wanted to thank each and every one of you for making me see things in a different light. My ym has been telling me pretty much the same things, but I always tell him he is just biased lol.

I feel lots better now :)

Sherry

Well geez, I'm always a day late and a dollar short, but I wanted to add my 2 cents!

Take it from the baggage queen, there are guys out there who not only CAN handle it, they WANT to! I don't know why they want to, I don't know why Robin ever wanted to, but they do, and it's grand. Robin is strong, self-assured, has been through a lot, and the stuff I think is heavy-*** baggage is really petty to him. So I guess it's perspective. We think it's a sh!tload to deal with, and they shrug their shoulders and go "Ah, whatever. I can deal with it."

You're a cute, spunky lady with a lot of great qualities, so I can't imagine any man of good character bailing on you for any baggage you might have. You've always managed to make lemonade out of lemons, and I'm sure it's appreciated by a worthy ym. :)

Sherry, Im sure glad that what I said helped a little .

I read what you said too and really related because its the same thing. My guy keeps getting me to stand up for myself and wants to help me stand up for myself and I am JUST not used to that!!

I'm used to a man that when the chips are down he would as soon stab me in my back than chip in and help me or be a partner.
I'm used to being told to stop talking so much, to being told that his what his employees or partners had to say mattered much more than what I had to say. I'm used to feeling like an object and a piece of furniture in the house than a woman with living breathing heart.

My best friend used to come over and could not believe how I took care of my husband. She said her husband would die to come home to his cigar next to his lazy boy and his dinner ready and his drink prepared. (he was madly in love with her though by the way). And yet my husband would rant and rave that the freezer wasnt in order or the pantry wasnt organized his way. When I moved out you bet I mixed those cans up good in my new cabinet lol. Real good!!

I did give up on my marriage, I admit it. I stopped trying. And that is why now we are divorced because the only one giving it a shot gave up and then it fell to pieces.

Thanks for all the kind words everyone. I really appreciate it.
So many beautiful people here.

I keep thinking maybe god noticed that I was trying so hard and wants me to have someone who trys right along with me.

We shall see, because only time can tell the truth in my situation.
I'm sure glad i found this board and can read all the great things that happen, and also share experiences that might help someone else.

I know it doesnt always work out how we hope, been there, done that. But its good to stay open to the experience and keep trying.

Heather

Well Sherry, there is not much I can say that hasn't already been said because you've gotten some really good advice here... But here is a YM's point of view - my own story I guess...
I keep telling my OW that she needs to start having some fun of her own - she like you has definitely earned it!!! And to let all of the miserable and dead weight people in her life - "the baggage" - do just that - live there own miserable lives and not let it bother her or "us". It's OK to have compassion and concern for these people, but when it gets to the point of bringing HER down and causing HER emotional distress - it's not worth it - it's there life to do with as they please.
I also keep telling her not to not let all of her "baggage" drag her down anymore - it's all in the past and we are starting our own life together fresh - and it doesn't bother me a bit!!! It's only baggage if you let it be a heavy burden that you have to keep dragging around with you everywhere. I tell her to sit back and think about just how short life is and that we need to enjoy life to the fullest, enjoy each other, enjoy the happiness that we bring to each other and not let the past, and the ex, and all the other users in her life have the opportunity to steal one more precious minute of her life away and make it miserable. I keep telling her if they want to be miserable, couch ridden, unemployed people - by all means let them!!!! It has not one thing to do with us, our lives, or our happiness. It is their life and their time on earth - they may spend that time any way they damn well please as far as I'm concerned -I'm happy to just let them go right on ahead and do it.
I don't know - maybe I'm out of control here for all I know - but these are my feelings on baggage - none of the bad things or bad people have anything to with me so I'm not going to worry about them. The kids don't bother me a bit because I really like kids, just never wanted any to come from me - so I do enjoy just being a part of their life - being a positive influence on a developing mind. The baggage thing really just doesn't phase me - I'm just living for the here and now - "us" and our future - that's all that matters...
I just can't wait 'til I get there with her so I can tell, or convince my OW to tell a whole bunch of these people to PISS OFF and get out of her/our life until they are normal, self sufficient parts of society that are not interested in her for what she can give them. Find the true friends and tell them that we appreciate them and tell the rest of them not to bother us anymore because we are not a charity, we are not a boarding house, we are not a taxi service, and we ARE going to be happy together and move above and beyond these people - out of their reach...
~hotrodder~