marcy 10-02-2003, 08:36 AM My guy is 18 and can legally drink in his country. In the US, obviously, he cannot. When I was 17 I dated a man in his late 20s. This guy bought alcohol all the time and neither of us thought a thing about it. I do NOT serve alcohol to my 17 or 15 year old children. Although this isn't a crisis by any stretch...I am interested in what the opinions on the board are...
So...hows about it? Would you buy champagne and have a glass with your under 21 yo b/f? Thanks all.
swanqueen 10-02-2003, 08:56 AM Still very against the law and considering the post Marcy put down about custody of her kids I think in her case this would be a bad idea.
Don't know what I would do. I think probably not, especially since I have a teenager and how could I defend it to him. "Well my b/f is a couple years older than you dear, I'll get you snockered when you are 18 too?"
Carazy 10-02-2003, 09:15 AM In Germany, you are allowed to buy alcohol (in bars or shops) after 18 - I think in case of non-spirit-based stuff, like beer, it might even be younger, not totally sure about that because it is still very common for 16-17 yr olds to drink - as long as it is on occasion, I doubt anyone considers it a major issue - only starts getting one if they get heavily drunk on a regular basis.
As a matter of fact, on family do's, I think it is not uncommon to have alcoholic drinks in moderation even for 15 yr olds (talking celebratory champagne here, normally mixed with orange juice etc ) - New Years celebration would be a typical thing for that, I guess.
So, I have no issues drinking alcohol with my 19, soon-to-be 20 yr old bf - having said that, none of us does like drinking too much, so it's been mostly a couple of long drinks or some whine, on occasion. I think the States are more strict in that respect, so I guess it's kinda a cultural thing, too ;)
PS: Note that in Germany, beer traditionally got an image as "foodstuff" rather than alcohol, probably because it's a major industry sector in Germany (and German beer mustn't contain any chemicals, just hops, yeast, sugar and water, if I am not wrong :p )
marcy 10-02-2003, 10:14 AM Thanks all I appreciate the thoughts here. Its true that I am a very light (super super light) drinker. I almost never have alcohol in the house unless its a religious event or something special like New Years. Frankly, its been a long time since I had alcohol in the house on New Years. If I want a drink, I go buy it, consume it...done. I just simply don't keep it in the house.
That being said...if the occassion does call for it...ie religious/special...my children are included. All of my children drink wine from the Shabbot Cup, etc...
Of course it would be in private if I shared alcohol with my b/f, it would be without children, it would be in a completely safe setting, and not to excess.
Just looking for thoughts on the topic....and I really appreciate all of yours :)
yellowrose 10-02-2003, 10:25 AM In Texas, it used to be that parents or spouses can serve an underage drinker alcohol (it hasn't changed to my knowledge) in their home or order it in a bar or resterant for the "minor".
Just FYI.
swanqueen 10-02-2003, 11:02 AM I din't mean Marcy would do it in front of her children. In my case there is no father so my son is ALWAYS here, so I was talking about my case.
I agree with Trish. I just don't feel like it is a good idea and I don't think I would. Especially if there was ANY exhusband who may cause me grief if it got out. You never know how things can get out. Just MHO.
Dan_Shues 10-02-2003, 01:13 PM Between the ages of 16 and 21...my dad would allow me to drink one and he would occasionally mix drinks like Whiskey Sours (which I love) and like Ginger Ale and Whiskey
His reasoning, at least to me, was a good one. He'd rather have me experiment and drink thier, than go some place where I could hurt myself...
With that being said...since I'm on the flip side, I'm a male...I'd say there's nothing wrong with you and him sharing drinks in the privacy of your own home. I see nothing wrong with that legally (yes, I know the laws *LOL*)...I see nothing wrong with it morally or ethically...
In the eyes of many, he is an adult...consenting adults should do as they wish.
Maria 10-02-2003, 01:56 PM What Carazy said is exactly how things are seen in Brazil and also here where I am living, as well as in France and Belgium. I think it's a good way of doing things.
http://saoriweyr.free.fr/minigifs/180402045.gif
swanqueen 10-02-2003, 02:25 PM Originally posted by Dan_Shues
I see nothing wrong with that legally (yes, I know the laws *LOL*)...I see nothing wrong with it morally or ethically...
In the eyes of many, he is an adult...consenting adults should do as they wish.
So you don't think it is morally or ethically wrong to break the law?
That's what I don't understand about these responses. Its the law. So you have a couple drinks. No one is drunk. He drives home, gets in an accident totally unrelated, dies, they see he has SOME blood alcohol. He is underage....
May seem far fetched but there are very strick laws (in some states at least) for providing alcohol to minors.
marcy 10-02-2003, 02:30 PM I whole heartedly agree about obeying the laws. Neither of us will be out on the road under any circumstances for at least 96 hours and I am talking about one glass of celebratory wine here.
Dan_Shues 10-02-2003, 02:42 PM SQ...
To be quite honest, I don't see a problem with it. If my parents have deemed me mature and responsible enough to handle a piece of machinery that ways 2000 pounds (give or take a few hundred pounds)....then, I am old enough to drink....
The thing is...you are saying that IF he goes out and drives...
My response and Marcy's and others....state that, it would be in the privacy of our homes. And I knew that if I had any alchohal in my system at all, I ain't leaving the house.
And I seriously doubt Marcy would allow her bf to drive either. So, in this case...it's not a problem.
Which is worse? A person and thier beau (who happens to be under age) drinking a few drinks in thier privacy of thier own home, where they are not going any place. OR....going out, having drinks out in public...possibly getting drunk....etc.
And, for the record...I've never gotten drunk. I've never drank to excess. When I was in middle school, I lost a friend who was like a brother to me. Someone supplied him and his friend with booze, at a third party site...they drove, they were drunk...my friend was killed.
They were legal driving age. I would of rather wished they would of stayed some place and gotten snookered thier, than be out some place where they had to drive.
Like I said...if I am deemed mature and responsible enough to handle a machine that has the power to kill myself or others? Then, if my dad thinks I can handle a drink now or then....then....I think it's fine.
~Dan
swanqueen 10-02-2003, 03:00 PM Ok I'm going to end my posts on this thread. Because every time I do you find a loophole. The driving was an example of what could happen. What if he tripped on his shoelace, hit his head, died, the ambulance comes they do an autopsy, he has alcolhol. It is against the LAW. And sometimes it is taken VERY seriously.
There is a boulevard that begins right where my street is. I have to go up about 1/2 mile to go to a turn around. Every time I approach my street my son says why dont I just cross over before the boulevard traveling about 10 ft on the wrong side of the road if no cars are coming. I tell him because it is against the law.
And that's how I feel about it. I can't believe NO ONE sees my point. But its ok, it is still my opinion.
Dan_Shues 10-02-2003, 03:09 PM SQ....
It's not that I don't see your point, because I do. I do see the point you are trying to make...and, I do understand what you are saying.
I suppose it's just the way I was brought up, the differences in the upbringing and such. Yes, I do understand your examples and the seriousness that goes along with them. Heck, PA just lowered the limit that you are drunk, I forget what it is, now.)
I suppose I'm just looking at it from the point of this: They aren't going to be hammering back mason jars of moonshine or bottles of JD down thier gullet. But rather, it's going to perhaps be a few small drinks to just set the overall atmosphere for a night of...perhaps romance and intimacy...
It would look a lil silly if she was to drink and he not...during this time....
I think a little leeway should be given, under the circumstances and situation and context...
Afterall, even the police usually give you a 5-10 mph leeway with the speedlimit. (Depending upon if ya come up to a speed trap. *LOL*)
But, like I said...I do understand the points you are making, and, I do see them. And in some situations? I'd agree with you...
However, in this situation here.....I just don't agree at this moment.
~Dan
Dan_Shues 10-02-2003, 03:12 PM Originally posted by Trish
My dad's favorite drink was a Whiskey Sour and when I was about 17, he'd mix up a batch and let me have a little tiny glass. I can still remember how my knees would kind of feel a little wobbly. He always used Bartender's Whisky Sour Mix. Darn it Dan...now I want a Whiskey Sour....:D
http://www.pugmarks.com/recipes/images/whiskey.gif
*LOL* Sorry Trish...
But...as the song goes....
"Pour me something tall and strong
Make it a Hurricane, before I go insane
It's only half past twelve but I don't care...
<b>It's Five O'Clock somewhere!"</b>
swanqueen 10-02-2003, 04:04 PM Ok not agreeing is fine Dan, as long as you SEE :D
Carazy 10-02-2003, 04:12 PM Ok, let me add this perspective, in addition about what I said above:
If I came to a foreign country (like the US), I basically would try to stick to the law there, provided I was conscious of certain issues. Now, personally I might think that a certain law in that country is downright silly, based on my cultural context, but I would still respect that this is the law in the country I am visiting...
The exception might be, if the legal issue in question is something that is pretty much ignored by most "natives" (like smoking pot in London - it's illegal but pretty much everyone seems to be doing it or has done ;) ); but then I would be cautious not to cause any potential problems to my friends/hosts there.
Having said that, in Germany we have a saying "where no plaintiff, there's no judge" (not sure if you have a similar expression in English) ... ^^ ;) - so, doing something in private that everyone agrees on is different to me than doing something in public ...
swanqueen 10-02-2003, 07:34 PM Truth be known if my son wasn't home and no one was going anywhere I would too. But one must be prepared to pay the consequences. In my case no one could have custody of my son but me, since I am his only parent (which I love by the way) but don't forget it is against the law. And it is punishable. Depending on your circumstances it could be real bad. I thought when we were planning the Midwestern Meeting I thought maybe we could have it in a hotel room so Romial could come and we could get him toasted before he goes to bootcamp. Can you imagine a hotel room full of 10 over 40 women and one poor 20 year old hammered to his gills. LOL
SnowPrincess 10-02-2003, 10:15 PM Marcy,
I see no problem with your man and you sharing a few drinks in the privacy of your own home.
Cheers and have a very nice romantic evening.
Genevieve 10-02-2003, 10:19 PM Originally posted by swanqueen
I thought when we were planning the Midwestern Meeting I thought maybe we could have it in a hotel room so Romial could come and we could get him toasted before he goes to bootcamp. Can you imagine a hotel room full of 10 over 40 women and one poor 20 year old hammered to his gills. LOL
LOL@Swan.. something tells me Romial would not mind that at all.. lol
Romial 10-03-2003, 12:11 AM Originally posted by Trish
Hmmmm.....very interesting question, Marcy. I totally agree with Julianne about the fact that at 18, a young man or woman can enlist in the armed forces and go off to war, possibly die serving our country, but they can't legally consume an alcoholic drink. Young men are required by law to register for the draft at age 18. That is certainly a double standard in the law. Also, the arbitrary age of 21 does not ensure that a person will drink moderately, and act responsibly. I've seen plenty of 30, 40, and 50-year-olds drunk out of their minds, acting very irresponsibly. I'm even ashamed to admit that a couple of times, I was one of them. And I, more than anyone should know better. My mother was killed by a drunk driver when I was nine-years-old. Personally, I do not serve alcohol to people under the legal drinking age. I have nieces and nephews who have been close, or are close now, to the legal age, and I won't serve them in my home. With me it's kind of a setting an example thing of being a responsible law abiding citizen, as well as the legal ramifications, if something were to happen to them.
You preach it Trish.
Romial 10-03-2003, 12:12 AM Originally posted by Genevieve
LOL@Swan.. something tells me Romial would not mind that at all.. lol
LOL at both of you.
Can anyone say...PARTAY?! And I even won't need the webcam then either, lol.
PoliteSuccubus 10-03-2003, 12:27 AM Or, what he's really trying to say is, he's got the time if you've got the party. ;)
marcy 10-05-2003, 12:20 PM In hopes of clarification...in this case I think Romial meant "preach it" as an expression of agreement...meaning preach it to the choir...
Does this help?
Romial 10-05-2003, 01:51 PM Originally posted by marcy
In hopes of clarification...in this case I think Romial meant "preach it" as an expression of agreement...meaning preach it to the choir...
Does this help?
Exactly. Because I agreed with what you said.
Only in the United States would you be able to vote, be able to fight and die for your country, but not legally drink. Makes you go hmmmmmm. heh
Polly 10-06-2003, 09:50 AM Carazey, I LOVE it that your country once thought of beer as a foodstuff! :D My ex-husband used to open a beer and say, "There's a pork chop in every can." meaning, supposedly it contained nutrition of some sort!
Our saying for your "no chief, no plaintiff" thing would be: "When the cat's away, the mice will play." :)
Robin was only 20 when I met him, but I met him, of all places, in a local bar. He had been hanging out there since he was 18 and worked part-time as a bar back. It was very illegal, but the owner was from Jordan and didn't care much about American laws. In fact, he served almost anyone who came in, regardless of their age, unless they were drunk or unruly. I never thought twice about drinking with Robin, because he had already done it on his own before I met him, and was used to it. He wasn't a heavy drinker by any means, just a social one, but I wasn't in any position to take that away from him since he was used to it already.
I think laws are made to keep stupid people in check. I think there is no harm bending them now and then. In your case, since your ym is already of drinking age in his country and therefore used to it, it would almost be cruel not to let him do it here, just like if someone was used to smoking and was abruptly denied a cigarette for a certain length of time because they somehow entered another jurisdiction. In fact, I'm not sure that our drinking laws apply to visitors from other countries. I mean, I'm sure the D.U.I. ones would, but as far as someone being legal in their country and having alcohol here in a private home, I'm not even sure that IS illegal. It might not be, since he's legal where he's from. If you know anyone who is knowlegable in that area, you might just ask them. I'd be interested to hear what they have to say.
My cousin grew up in Montreal, Canada. He said they had "grills" there for men only. They were raunchy little dives that served sandwiches and ales. There was no age restriction. If a 12-year-old boy walked in and thought he could handle an ale, he was served. They would laugh him out of the place though, if he couldn't handle it, he would get no sympathy. That alone would be his punishment.
Romial 10-06-2003, 01:20 PM Originally posted by Trish
Just wanted to make sure we were in sync! :D
And we do have some pretty screwy laws in this country....I mean, in some places oral sex is illegal. Now what's up with that??!! LOL!
Well don't do it in public or in front of a cop and you won't have anything to worry about. Heh :)
swanqueen 10-06-2003, 04:13 PM No a wife filed charges agains her husband for doing it to HER!! I could see if it was the other way around :D
Romial 10-06-2003, 05:15 PM Originally posted by swanqueen
No a wife filed charges agains her husband for doing it to HER!! I could see if it was the other way around :D
Wow, that would suck to get arrested for doing something that I love to do.
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