O.K., Here we go - (update)

I disappeared for a while in order to try to re-focus my energy in my life. Around the time I quit posting and lurking, I had some serious personal issues to deal with. Some had to do with my OM/YW relationship, some had to do with work-related issues and some had to do with the general burn out of over thinking everything in my daily live. Introspection is a wonderful thing – but not when you morph it into a micro-study of every thought that enters your mind.

I switched jobs, dealt with all health and emotional issues and have started to tackle the “real” divorce from my ex. For those of you who do not know, my ex-husband and I have never taken the time to process our actual divorce. We’ve been separated for almost two years – a year and eight months to be exact. We are basing our divorce on the grounds of non-cohabitation for more than one year. This finalization of divorce has started an intense flood of emotions that I was not aware I had. I dealt with the anger towards my ex a long time ago – but the farther you are away from a bad situation, the less “bad” it seems. People have a tendency to romanticize things that are from the past. So, having so much “healthy” (non-screaming, no fighting, no driving him to drink/driving me to eat or not eat) contact with the ex has brought up memories of ONLY the good times. Add to that the fact that he’s asked his girlfriend to marry him (which is not late-breaking news) and she is 21, with a rich daddy and parties just as hard as he does stings a little. (Karmically funny how *I’m* the YW in my relationship – but in the position of an OW with my ex!!!!) She was being sent to Europe while I was writing my husband’s college term papers. She was off taking classes and things *I* wanted to do while I was busting my *** to make sure my husband could quit his job and start his own (very successful) business. In a (completely egoic) way, it stings. Every time we get together to sign this or that, we start reminiscing. It hurts. Believe me, I DON’T want him back. It’s just so sad to think that I was so naïve and hopeful when he and I started out. We were very young, too. We were together for ten years (including non-married time), so I guess I should, now that I have released all the anger, actually MOURN the demise of my married life. And, of course, I have to remind myself of what a freaky shit he could be. LOL. Remembering only the good things, I guess, is like having to give the eulogy at the funeral of a real asshole! Anyway, what I’m saying is that I have realized that one really has to MOURN the loss of a once-promising relationship, no matter what kind of asshole the ex-partner was.

Moving on from that confusing, emotional turmoil – I am , again, struggling with issues with B. First of all, for those of you who don’t know (It’s taken me some time to decide whether to post this.) I was pregnant back in the summer. It was shocking to me to find that I considered having and raising a child. I have never, EVER wanted children before. But once I discovered I was pregnant (for a second time, mind you), I thought that it might not be so bad to be a mother. Am I a good enough person to be a mother? I wasn’t sure. I mean, I know people worse off than I am and they aren’t great parents…but could I, in good conscience, be a mother. I was in the midst of thinking about all of this when I told B. His reaction shook me to the very core.

He didn’t want it. He didn’t want it at all. In fact, he became enraged when I even suggested at the incomplete thought that I may want to have it. He ranted about how he has four kids (22, 19, 10, 8) and was just getting around to a “quiet” time in his life…an extended period of romance….he didn’t want it. When I said that was fine and that I might just be leaving and having it on my own (and that he wouldn’t hear from me seeking support EVER) then he became enraged and told me if I REALLY wanted to live that “Jerry Springer” kind of existence, then I could; that he wasn’t going to “get stuck” raising another child. He told me that I wouldn’t make a good mother; that I was too spoiled and irresponsible….that I was selfish (which I am). A lot of ugly things came out of our mouths in the heat of it all. I don’t think I have ever been that hurt, surprised and angry in my life.

When I calmed down later, I saw two things clearly – (1) his FEAR and point of view and (2) that no one was going to help me make any decisions about this; that I was going to have to make the best decision for me. He would ask me daily what I was going to do and I would calmly respond that “I would let [him] know when I’d made a decision.” I took my fear and emotion out of the equation and became very logical about it.

I know that some of you are going to think it’s crazy that I see his point of view. However, in the spirit of fairness, he entered into this relationship with me believing that I had no interest in having children. I convinced him of that. The fact that he DOES have four children and is 53 years old is a valid point. He’s tired. He doesn’t want to do this again. He thought “his” kids would’ve been enough for me. (And boy, are they! But not in the way he thinks. LOL). We’d discussed children in length and he was completely convinced that I’d never changed my mind.

And I wouldn’t have – except that this was the SECOND time this had happened through all extensive birth control measures! (Pills, foam, etc. REALLY. I’m dead serious.) The fact that I’d gotten this way through all preventative measures made me wonder if “someone/thing” was trying to tell me something. Add to that the fact that I really loved B and saw what (I thought, after a year) was an amazing person…I just wanted to at least explore the option.

And during my exploration, he didn’t bother me about it (except for asking for periodic updates on my position). Obviously, I decided not to continue the pregnancy. It was one of the most painful decisions I’ve ever made. It’s different from “Whoops! Accident!” and not ever CONSIDERING having it. I considered it. I considered it, too much, perhaps. In my head, I saw her – a child, maybe three or four; looking like me; being impudent and stubborn just like I was when I was her age; but still full of love for my fellow human beings and everything there is in this world. I saw a car-seat in the back of my car. I envisioned all of that. And then one day, it was gone. I couldn’t conjure her up anymore. I couldn’t see years past chubby knees and “onesies.” LOL. Reality caved in and I decided that it probably wasn’t the best thing for me to do. Out of some bizarre punishment, I think I chose the most painful way to terminate a pregnancy – RU 486. Anyone who tells you that’s easy is full of shit. I am *still* traumatized from the experience. I won’t go into here (since this has turned into a freaking NOVEL), but if anyone out there is considering it, please talk to me first. It’s UGLY.

So….where are we now? Months later, I’ve forgiven myself for the decision I’ve made and I’m focused on the present. Every day I spend with B is a struggle. Every time I see him with his kids, resentment rears it’s ugly head. Anytime he asks me to do something for his children, (sometimes, I do what he’s asking, sometimes, I don’t) I think “Hmph, they aren’t my kids.” And if any of you remember the Father’s Day fiasco of last year, won’t we all hoot at what I had to say to him regarding next year: “I don’t have children with you. Their mother will need to take them shopping for you.” I am holding a lot of resentment towards him and it’s s-l-o-w-l-y receding…he acts like everything is fine.

Or maybe he just wants to believe everything is fine. Or maybe he thinks that if he acts like everything is fine that it WILL be. And maybe it will be.

I, on the other hand, am just stuck in this holding pattern. I’m just going through the motions of wondering why I changed my mind about having a child; wondering why B’s rejection of my pregnancy wounded me so deeply; wondering why I don’t really FEEL like breaking up with him, although I’m a zombie. I’m a zombie or a very good pretender. My ex used to accuse me of never telling him the truth; just pretending I was fine. I’ve habitually done that my entire life – from childhood. I’ve tried, in earnest, to be very truthful with B, however, it’s soooooo ingrained into my personality that I’m afraid I do it without catching myself.

So, that’s the condition of my relationship at this point. I’m not sure what I’m going to do – and I don’t suppose I’m really asking for advice. (Although I’m sure I’ll get some and that’s o.k., too!) I’m just venting and some of you asked for an update, so…that’s the update.

I want you all to know, though, that deep inside, I’m really o.k. My heart, that is. One thing that I’ve learned is to never ask your heart not to love – and that’s not the same as being a doormat. I joke a lot about chopping people’s heads off and certain people’s cold sores “moving south”, but what I really mean when I say all of that is that it’s o.k. to keep loving someone even when they treat you badly (Em, Littleme) – but that just because you love someone doesn’t mean that they are going to do everything your way. Do I love B? Yep. But I love everyone in my own way. (Yes…even axe murders, Spunkasaurus.) And no matter how badly things go between the ex and B and the rude-*** newspaper vendor on the corner near my office (who is a totally grumpy bastard), I will still love E-V-E-R-Y S-I-N-G-L-E person I know. So there.

Now I will prepare to shield myself from ALL of the things that are going to get hurled at me. Ha ha ha.

All I'm throwing your way is a great big hug....

I don't really know if I can say anything more here. You know I'm proud of you for all you have done so far; how could I help but continue to be proud of you now?

Your self-awareness, your introspection...these things help you through life....

But stop thinking every now and then, and "smell the breeze" as you told me. I tried it. It worked....for a minute or two!

Much love, Happy.

Wow Happy, you have gone through quit a bit. So sorry to hear about the pregnancy situation :-( I don't really have anything to add, but I felt like you needed to know that I read your update and all of us here are ready for a big group hug...if needed.

because I know that you know you are a wonderful, stong-willed, and very wise person. I admire you for being able to step back and look at it from the outside. You took your time and didn't rush into any hasty choices.

Thank you for being you and helping others the way you have. I hope all starts to look up for you.

Love comes from Cali!
EM

<<<......just sending hugs, smiles and the promise that life always gets better!!

Now go for a long walk on the beach (not to think) just because you can! Oh and grab your board just in case the surf's up a bit, its soon gonna be way too cold for it!

Don

Happy... You sound like a very strong intelligent woman... and I do hope that you do find your way through this ......I totally feel for you and your in my prayers and Hope everything settles down...... Take care of yourself and do whats good for you.. I sound like a broken record.... but I totally feel that taking care of yourself and making yourself happy will also make your partner happy if not life is to damn short..Live it like you want it!!!

Happy,

I'm sorry to hear about your second pregnancy. The only thing I can say I tell B the resentment you have about not having any kids with him if it's bothering you.....maybe it can be talked through.

Best wishes!

C

There IS a distinct problem that arises with the all loving, all compassion scenario.

Often it can blur into a rationalization process - as you try to tell yourself to feel compassion and love and excuse behaviour and forgive and understand, etc - what can get eroded veeery slowly are your own core values, beliefs and ideals. (Er, like living in some guy's house where it's all HIS stuff - the lack of your furnishings being a metaphor for the relationship.)

What can happen, if you're not careful - is that you start to fade away.

You lose sight that it's perfectly okay to have wants and desires and expectations - to express yourself, to define yourself - to create... to live.

It's perfectly okay to say "Y'know, I don't like that!" "I don't like this happening to me."

I have a very dear friend who wants to be all loving and all compassionate but often finds himself not being able to make a decision one way or the other because this might "limit" him in some way. In wanting to appear as though "all doors are possïble" - he doesn't actually go through ANY door - when a choice has to be made. Although he will go on forever as to how he can "see a thousand possibilities" and "embrace each one" - by not making a choice, he simply churns water in the same spot.

Another example - if he's in a a completely destructive relationship he'll say, "well maybe I need to learn from this. Maybe I need to embrace this." "Maybe I need to wallow in the shit." "And maybe I can prove my power by staying in the mire".

And I'll say, "If you were in a stinking concrete room with no ventilation - no plumbing - and rats everywhere - it's okay to say, "Y'know, I'd prefer the five star hotel".

And walk out.

And I think it's no big deal to say and to make the decision that "Hey, you know what? I want the five star hotel. I don't need to put myself through this agony and torture to try and prove my compassion - to who? To me? To them?"

Make choices about how you live - then whatever COMES UP NATURALLY will test your compassion.

You might choose to be in the five star hotel and a bomb will go off - or you'll get food poisoning - or one hundred other things. Show your compassion then.

The main thing is to make choices about what is important to you in your life. What are your core values? What do you believe in? What are your goals? How do you want to live your life? What's important to you? What WON'T YOU PUT UP WITH?

You don't have to get swept along. The all-love scenario is great - but radiate it from a position of confident inner knowing.

Don't under-value yourself - don't think that, "Well, I can put up with whatever happens to me - I'll deny my hurt - I'll try to embrace them."

The embracing bit - the all-love bit should happen as you are confidently and independently striding forward making the choices that YOU want to make about your life. As you do this, guaranteed, people will want to s-h-i-t on you and bring you down. Show your compassion then from a position of great strength.

Sometimes with you, Happy, I get the feeling that you are compassion reactive, rather than compassion proactive.

In this whole ramble, that's the only sentence worth remembering!

I want only the best for you - and you deserve it. It's perfectly okay for you to say - "Who am I? What do I want?"
"This is MY LIFE and I don't need to be constantly chasing my tail and apologising and feeling inadequate - and let's just wrap that up in compassion because then I can rationalize it to myself!"

Don't undersell yourself, Happy. You are an extremely intelligent, sensitive woman. Sometimes it'll be just as healthy for you to meditate on your FEELINGS and DESIRES as much as meditating on the CALM. Once you identify who you are - you can then find the calm.

It just seems sometimes that YOU LET others make core decisions for you - for your life - they're not right - but you are left to deal with them and rationalize them. And find a way to cope with them.

Identify your DESIRES - make your own choices and MAKE NO APOLOGIES FOR THEM - move forward as the confident super-woman -


- and display your compassion then.

:)

*Apologies: brain not functioning clearly and intense editing and clarification needed - more stream of thought than usual for me, but I hope you get the idea.

I'm very sorry to hear about the difficulties going on in your life - the divorce, the pregnancy, the relationship. My heart goes out to you.

I would like to echo what Spunk and Mer said, though, and just say that you have to take care of yourself. You have to care for yourself. And there is no one else on this earth who can do that for you -- that is a BEAUTIFUL THING! You have the chance to make all your decisions FOR YOURSELF! How amazing is that?

Please be good to yourself - that is as compassionate as being good to others around you.

One thing I have to remember all the time - having grown up Lutheran - is that Jesus said "Love your neighbor as yourself" NOT "Love your neighbor MORE THAN yourself." I think that it means to be compassionate and loving to yourself as well as other people.

Good luck to you!!!!

everyone else here has given such good insite to this that I really don't know what to add but perhaps the fact that often we see the strengths and weaknesses of others but not our own. I am reminded of a relationship I watched some time ago which was similar, and I say this to emphasize that this applies to you only if you think it does, where a woman was in love with someone not for what he was but for what she thought she was and should be. Eventually, she left him and found someone more compatible with her as far as goals, desires for the future and so on. she had gotten together with the first guy because it felt like that was meant to be, or so she told me, and then saw the part of herself that was no longer alive there and moved on to where she was ultimately happier. We all have to surrender a bit of ourselves at times when we get into a relationship but if the other person surrenders a bit as well it can be wonderful. the time to leave a relationship behind is when one is doing all the surrendering, as she discovered that she was as we talked about it, or rather she talked to me. In your case, you have to ask yourself those questions but what ever you do I wish you happiness!

I waited a day or so to reply to your post, Happy, and I am glad that I did. As it turns out, Spunk's response was so right on point, that he saved me from stumbling through trying to explain what he stated so eloquently.

I will add that, Spunk, your post could have been written directly to me too. Happy, please pay attention to what Spunk said about fading away.

He wrote:

Often it can blur into a rationalization process - as you try to tell yourself to feel compassion and love and excuse behaviour and forgive and understand, etc - what can get eroded veeery slowly are your own core values, beliefs and ideals. (Er, like living in some guy's house where it's all HIS stuff - the lack of your furnishings being a metaphor for the relationship.)

What can happen, if you're not careful - is that you start to fade away.

You lose sight that it's perfectly okay to have wants and desires and expectations - to express yourself, to define yourself - to create... to live.

It's perfectly okay to say "Y'know, I don't like that!" "I don't like this happening to me."

Please don't let this happen to you. I can tell you, that this happened to ME, and I finally did say, "Hey, I want the five-star hotel, damn it, and I'm not going to sit by and give up something that I feel in my core I am supposed to do because I will lose you if that is my choice." Tom had a choice too. He decided that he would rather lose me than have a child with me. That was HIS choice. I spent SEVEN YEARS convincing myself that I didn't want children, because I mean, they're loud and smelly and messy and can be annoying and what if he turns out to be a serial killer? or disabled? or doesn't love me? And besides, I had a man who I loved with my entire being and would have done anything for him, right? Including give up myself????? No. No way. I have been spouting off for years about feminism, and strength, and have educated myself, and become successful professionally, and all the while...I HAVE HAD NO IDEA WHO I EVEN AM, because I have been too busy trying to PLEASE SOMEONE ELSE.

Happy, please, please, please, please, DO NOT BE ME. It took me YEARS to figure out, and, especially after reading your post, I am so glad that I did. See, your situation was what I lived in fear of for my entire relationship with Tom. I know that if I had become pregnant in the early stages of the relationship, like while I was still in college, I probably would have ended the pregnancy too. Since then though, I know I would not have been able to do it, and I would have had the baby alone, and I would be supporting myself and my child right now (who would probably be being raised by a nanny or my mother...yikes...because of my work schedule), and I would have lost Tom.

I got to the point where I realized that I wanted to be with someone who would be flexible and supportive of ME, and who would WORK THROUGH everything with me, and have an open mind. I know its hard Happy, as you have probably seen from my struggle. But Tom was not willing to work with me. And I was to a point that I realized that I have accepted so much that I was never happy about, and I finally got angry with myself for my failure to take a stand. Don't get me wrong, I made a big stink about several things, but each time I did, I got the same responses: "You're making a mountain out of a molehill," "You're being irrational, or overly sensitive, etc." Sound familiar? Sure, some of the issues were probably trivial, but there were many that were far from it! I had enough. I had already basically given up any hope of having a normal family with him (because of his flat refusal to attend any family gatherings), he wanted me to give up having a cat (which I love), he tried to dictate my work schedule (good luck for a young attorney in a big firm), he gave me a hard time when I wanted to see my friends (because I was "choosing them" over seeing him), he forced me to accept his ridiculous relationship with his ex-wife (long story, but basically put her needs in front of mine), AND he wanted me to give up having a child, basically ever.

I am not a stupid person, but still, all this was right in front of my eyes, and I finally woke up. I could have lived with all the other stuff, but the child thing was the last straw. Am I sad about it? You bet. Do I second guess myself? Several times a day. Do I miss him? With all my heart. But I just couldn't look at myself in the mirror anymore, because I realized that I hated who I had become. What happened to the strong, independent woman that I had worked so hard to become? She was on life support. And if I hadn't figured all this out in time, we just might have lost her.

Is there possibly a professional you can talk to about all this?

All the best to you.

Emmie

Happy,

It sounds like you've been through a lot and you have a lot to think about. I know how painful it can be to make the decision you did. There's nothing wrong with changing your mind about wanting kids. People change. They decide they want things they swore they didn't. It's okay. But understand B's position too. He was, I'm sure, very afraid of having another child to raise, and also afraid of the possibility that he might lose you should you chose to have a child without him. That doesn't excuse him for being personally insulting to you. That's another issue. But as far as children go, he thought you were on the same page on this. If you change your mind he knows he'll lose you.

Please try not to take any of this out on his kids. I know you wouldn't do it intentionally, but it would be hard not to let your resentment spill over into how you treat them. If it's B you're mad at, then be mad at him, not his kids.

Try not to worry about your ex and his girlfriend. It doesn't sound like either of them are worthy of much of your time or energy. By all means, mourn the loss of that relationship if you haven't allowed yourself to do so, but he's your ex for a reason, even if you can't always remember what all the reasons were.

You may have to take a big step and change some major things in your life, but you will be better for it if that is what you decide you need to do. Take care of yourself.

Dear Happy,

I'm really sorry to hear about all the things that has happened. It doesn't sound easy, but you've pulled through it all and I am very proud of you. I know you are in pain- I feel for you. Even though there isn't something I can do to help you wash those awful feelings away, I am thinking of you. You are a very strong, loving woman and I'm glad to know that you are ok. It sounds like many things are being resolved... the divorce, the pregnancy... I am praying that the rainbow will come out for you soon. If I am with you I would give you the biggest hugs.

"I’m just going through the motions of wondering why I changed
my mind about having a child;"

I think it's a combination of two things.

1. When confronted with the reality of not having children - you wigged.

2. Every since you were a child you've been impudent and
stubborn. Not exactly the kinda girl that takes kindly to being
TOLD "This is the way it is - end of story".

One of the key ingridents to your relationship is the fact that you both decided you were not going to have kids. I'm sure he wigged a little when he was confronted with you wanting to maybe change a done deal.

Guess you're going to have to honestly confront this child issue.

FWIW I think that the vast majority of women would be fighting their true nature to rule out having kids.

I think that one should never think there is anything wrong with a change of mind, unless it is being done too often and for reasons which are senseless. Were many children to not change their mind about wanting to be firemen when they grew up, or truck drivers, or policemen, or any one of a thousand different things everyone in life would be coagulated into a few positions. Were too few women to change their mind in some circumstances, there would be thousands more dead from domestic violence. I am thinking again of my response to the old saying "the grass looks greener on the other side of the fence" and that is that sometimes it is. With all the discussions about what we do or think, it all needs to start, I think, with the words of Socrates from centuries ago, "Know thyself" and whether we change our mind or not about anything has to be based upon what it is we need or do not need in our lives in order to be happy.

It seems second nature to us as humans to second guess our choices...even simple ones.

Some choices can be changed, and some cannot....

Your choice for your future, Happy, unfortunately falls into the "cannot be changed" category. The only place I can suggest you look to for comfort is the "potential" future, if your choice had been different. Think of the reasons why your choice was right, and see the future with all those reasons in the forefront....

This choice, though, that you are second guessing, CAN be re-made in the future. It can be re-visted. You're young, healthy, and fertile--one would almost say too fertile. This choice is NOT closed for all time...it is simply diverted. To another potential future....

As for your relationship....

I remember you saying that you keep coming back to the question between the two of you, "Do we want to quit?" And so far, the answer has been "No. We do NOT want to quit."

Dear Happy, as long as that answer is "No," then you have to keep trying. I also remember yoiu saying that, if an ending comes, it has to be a true ending. True, as in true to yourself. You wish to try all solutions before giving up, so that if you do have to answer "Yes" to that question someday, it will be because you have tried all you can try....

Don't give up too soon...always remain true to YOU, as I have seen you do. Make YOUR choices, make them well, and keep going until you know you are at a stopping point.

You are a logical AND compassionate person, and I admire you greatly for it.

I'm not going to go into the pregnancy terminating stuff again too much, because it's still too fresh for me. I'm either mad as hell or I get very emotional and start sobbing when I think about it too much. Not because I regret it, but because I get sick and tired of all the people who don't and can't understand, and when I hear their this-n-that opinions, it really wears on me. And no one, not one person in the world, can understand it unless they've been through it. But I do want to say that I used RU-486 as well, and physically it was a very easy experience. It was like having a heavy, clumpy period. I didn't even have much cramping; it just seemed to start falling out. I didn't vomit, have diarrhea, all I had was a stomachache. So, like all the literature written on it that I had to read, I can say that affects each woman differently. One thing to consider, I was not even a month along. The sooner it is taken, the easier it is. The day I found out, I made an appointment, and I only allowed myself until that date to see if I'd change my mind. I didn't. And I try not to think about it now, because I can't possibly really know how things could have been, I only know what I have now, and I still think it's for the best. After all, there's always someday. Happy, I'm sorry you had a bad experience. I think that people should definitely realize that it's a possibility. But I didn't have a bad experience, in fact it was much easier than I imagined. I can say for 1000% sure that it's much safer than a surgical procedure. No risk of infection, no possiblity of damaging any fragile organs. Basically no chance of screwing things up in the future. And if anyone should have to choose this path in the future, I don't think they should have to consider surgery their best option. Statistically it's not. It's more invasive, requires more time in a doctor's care, and there are just more things to worry about. I only say this because I really care about this issue, because it's one that people seem to be losing perspective on how crucial it really is as a reproductive right. I think RU-486 is a miracle. It's no more murder-like than birth control pills. It does not KILL, it inhibits. It's not a vaccuum or macabre device for disposal. It's a big step, scientifically. Medically. Socially. Sorry I'm rambling here; Happy I'm glad to see you back. You've always been one of my favorites here, and I hope you are doing wonderfully. And I'm so sorry as well, from a person who's been there.

P.S. I know exactly what you mean by being wounded by his reaction. It's as if he is rejecting you, rejecting a definite future, rejecting involvement, basically rejecting the product of you plus him. It's extremely painful. You will resent him, and you have no choice but to let yourself. He couldn't feel what you did; he wasn't capable of knowing. For this you can be angry, because you had to go it alone. He just saw it as washing his hands, while for you it was so much more. I know this. I also know about resenting existing kids even more as a result. Why were YOU good enough, you little shit, and not MY kid? It's very easy to fall into this trap, but it's just a jealous game I used to torture myself. No, I am not his kid's mother, and I'm glad. I can still run away from this and have no strings, and I can say I wasn't trying to trap anyone. I don't believe any man is worth enough to be "trapped". If anything, he should have to trap me. And anyway, if you remove all whirling emotions and look at the facts we're living through, having a kid with someone DOES NOT MEAN HE LOVED HER MORE. Otherwise, they might still be together. I didn't want to be a mother then, and I don't right now. It's just the fact that there was the option, and he ran away screaming while pulling out his hair. It doesn't exactly inspire confidence. And I can't ever say I understand his point of view, only that I know at least that it would not have been conducive to a happy family life. Not at this point in time, with these circumstances. But boy oh boy, are you preaching to the choir. Let me know when you figure out how to make it all go away. :rolleyes:

Happy,

Im sorry to hear of your sorrows, and I hope that you receive much insight from everyone here to enable you to really look in the mirror and do whats right for you.

I wish you all the happiness in the world.

- Munchie :)

P.S For the dumbass, can someone explain to me what an
RU 486 is???? As far as I know, we only have one form of abortion in Oz and Im a little baffled...:confused:

Oh god, I have no idea where to begin!

First of all, thanks Lara, for the support and reminding me of things I've said. LOL. It's true and you're right. If we do break up, it has to be a real, DEFINITE thing. LOL.

Secondly, Spunk - thank you thank you thank you thank you. I can always count on a swift kick in the *** from you when I need it. And I needed it. You are impossibly full of truth in your post. Reactive compassion vs. Proactive compassion; walking into a five star hotel...for what it's worth, I copied your post and e-mailed it to myself.

Emmie, Mera, Datura, AbaconW, Munchkin, Pink Panther and anyone else I'm accidentally forgetting:

THANK YOU. I am a little overwhelmed after reading all of the posts. Your encouragements and clear insights really *DO* help, whether you know it or not. Immensely. I love all of you to pieces.

PinkP - I would never intentionally take anything out on his children, however, you hit the nail on the head when you suggested that I may do that UNintentionally. I am never cruel to them, but I am not as warm and "mommy-ish" to them as their mother's new husband is. They call him "dad" (which I find objectionable, but hey, it's really none of my business). Unfortunately, my emotional distance from them allows me to see things in their personality or make-up (especially the older of the younger two) that is less than child-like naiviete. He lies, tattles and manipulates his parents and younger brother. The only time he and I have problems is when he tries to manipulate me. I am not cruel or scream-y or abusive in any way. I just roll my eyes and laugh and say "no." (NOw, if I could somehow learn to do that with his father...) He throws a tantrum and cries. I calmly ignore it. He threatens to say nasty things about me to his father or mother - I simply laugh at him again and tell him to go ahead, but that when he does, please have them call me to discuss the real issues at hand. He manipulates his father by telling him about all the wonderful things their step-father does for them....yak yak yak. I find it disgusting. The youngest one just gets picked on all the time although he is a very strong and brave little boy. I think, perhaps, that one day, his older brother will be more than sorry he was so wicked to his teeny little brother. (Who will, without a doubt, hit a growth spurt!)

Anyway, I know that it's not their fault about what happened between B and I regarding the pregnancy. What I *DO* know, however, is the anger and resentment I feel when I have to "sacrifice" because of them. Why? Why do I feel that way NOW? Because I went through a horrible, physically traumatic experience in order to prevent HIM from having to sacrifice anymore for children - the fact that I have avoided having children my ENTIRE LIFE should mean that I don't have to sacrifice JACK for some spolied child. Will I get over feeling that way? I know it's an irrational thought brought about by my anger at the rejection, but why should I have to lose sleep over kids that aren't mine? And you can put me on a stick and roast me in HELL before I EVER consider even being in sight (if we stay together, which is looking more doubtful as time goes on...but who kows?) on "FATHER'S DAY." On father's day, I'll go see my dad.

(*This gets graphic and is not for the faint of heart*) And Datura - I am so thankful that your experience with RU486 was nothing like mine. (Munchie - it's a series of pills - one taken orally and four inserted vaginally the next day in order to induce labor/contractions to expel the pregnancy.) I took my pill on Thursday, had my hair done on Friday a.m. Filled my prescription for pain and anti-nausea medicine, went home and began the rest of the process. Like CLOCKWORK, the "menstrual cramping" effect began three hours after I'd taken the three pills. I was home alone when, an hour later, through pain pills and anti-nausea medicine - I was on the commode, vomiting, "expelling" what looked like the entire contents of my body from head to toe into the toilet. Feverish, blurred vision et. al., I crawled - yes, crawled - to the showe thinking hot water would relieve the cramping - I ended up bleeding and vomiting all over the shower floor and every time I thought I could stand, another wave of pain would ripple through my body knocking me to my knees. And I am not a wilting flower. I get hurt daily - I get thrown to the floor in classes, I hit wooden dummies with my bare hands, I have bruises and scrapes from surfing as much and as hard as I can. This was unlike any pain I have ever felt in my entire life. I was so weak that all I could do was remain on the shower floor. THANKFULLY, my mother showed up to my house, came in when I didn't answer and heard me moaning and choking. Again, thankfully, she stayed very calm while she washed the vomit out of my hair, got me some towels and somehow managed to manever me into bed. She took my temp, check my vitals and called a doctor friend of hers. He told her that my condition should be changing very quickly very shortly and that if it didn't, I needed to go to the Emergency Room. Funny thing was, he was right. Less than ten minutes (after the two-solid hours of vomiting and thinking i was going to die...which at that point, in my hysteria, thought I deserved) after she made the call, the cramps subsided to a normal menstrual cramp like pain and my temperature went down, I cooled off and the promptly passed out to the sound of my mother discussing my condition with B. I totally see your point in regards to your good experience. The healing time is faster than a surgical one and there is less of a chance for infection and it's more private - but I have no desire to go through THAT again. If I ever get pregnant again, it's coming no matter what anyone says. I am NOT having another abortion. EVER. (That statement does NOT mean that I think abortions are "bad" or "wrong" BTW.)

And you know, you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned something about it feeling like HE LOVED HER MORE. He had children with HER. SHE was good enough to be a mother. SHE HER HER HER. THEIR kids. If I figure anything out about THAT resentment, I'll call you up as long as you'll do the same for me. Ha ha !

Anyway...I can't stress how much reading all of your responses has helped me feel so un-alone.

Oh! And for Somenight, while I disagree with your statement that I was confronted with not having kids and wigged (;)), I DO agree with your statement about our being together is, while not BASED on us not having kids, was an understood agreement. I mean, I stated from the beginning that I didn't want any. And I still don't, honestly. What I wanted was for him to tell me that he loved me enough to consider doing something that he didn't want to do. That's what I was doing. I didn't initially want children, but since I was pregnant with HIS child, I might be willing to consider it. I was disapointed that I didn't get that reaction. While I understand his position, I wish that he'd reacted differently. As a woman, it's in my nature to want children. When I smell baby-skin and see a tiny helpless creature, I long for one. When I see the stinking shit who is out of his parents control shooting fireworks at the neighbors cat...I remember why I didn't want any in the first place. ;)

Love,
Happy-ish

Doesn't surprise me - I usually only get it half right. :)

I hope you don't take offense about my posts. I'm truly trying to help by giving you a mans (just one mind you) perspective.

I understand how you feel about him wanting to be a true partner and truley have your best interests at heart. I can also understand how it would be very easy to become disillusioned because sooo much is at stake here...

Now for the mans perspective...

About the understood agreement...

For me, I would never get serious with a woman who wants to have children. It wouldn't be fair to her and I just flat out don't want to be responsible for that. Too important.

But you did reach and understanding about kids.

She Said: What I wanted was for him to tell me that he loved me enough to consider doing something that he didn't want to do.

He Said: What I wanted for her to do was respect my wishes about children. After all we did reach an understanding. How can she change the rules? Is this what I have to look forward too? This absolutly friggin freaks me out after all - there is sooo much at stake.

SNSW <--- Playing devil's advocate for the right reasons.

Happy....

I have to agree with Danika on this one. I can't offer you much except for a big hug. I'm not too keen on this perspective....I have sat back and let others state their piece....and Emmie's truly touched me....I cried for both of you while reading it.

I wish you all the best and I hope you come out of this grey cloud feeling good about any choices you make.

All my love,
EM

Really. And as for YOU SNSW, YOU....YOU....YOU

are completely right on that one. I totally understand that perspective - it's just that *I*, personally wished that he'd understoon my reasoning for not immediately running out and terminating; that I wanted to think about it some more. It was through major barriers and prayer that that little squiggle sperm even MADE it to where it planted itself. It was the second time this has happened. I wanted to put some THOUGHT into it, you know? I wanted to make sure I was doing what I felt I was supposed to do.

And although I still have the (I'm sure hormone related) spurts of "Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh! That baby is cute!" It certainly was NEVER like "Oh! I am going to disrespect your wishes and get pregnant even though we already said we wouldn't..." It wasn't like that AT ALL. I took MAJOR precautions and I didn't get pregnant by myself, you know? ROFLMAO. I thought, you know, since I was "that way" for the second time in a relatively short period of time, I would at least *think* about what I was going to do...or not do.

Happy,

I think you took the right approach and did what you had to do. I'm glad you didn't jump right in and do what you did just to make him happy. It involves both of you, and I wish he was a little bit more supportive. But we'll always be here for you when you need us!

EM

Happy,

Sounds like a knee jerk reaction on his part.

Might be that if he understood this...

"I wanted to put some THOUGHT into it, you know? I wanted to make sure I was doing what I felt I was supposed to do."

... he'd feel bad about his reaction.

I can really see myself in his shoes. I know I'd feel terrible. Well, hopefully I would chill and think awhile but that's another story.

If you two work it out you'll be that much stronger. Lot's of relationship tests do that to you.

Else they tear you apart.

Good Luck and stay Happy!

Originally posted by Happy4Me
Spunk - thank you thank you thank you thank you...for what it's worth, I copied your post and e-mailed it to myself.

Aww, shucks. Well at least I know you're emailing someone because LORD KNOWS I can never get you to email me.



;)