The Virgin Myth

I have something to say here, and I refuse to post to a thread that is in danger of being deleted on the whim of the origingator, at the first sign of "dissent."

THE VIRGIN MYTH

I don't believe in virginity.

I understand that, scientifically, until someone has a sexual experience, they are a VIRGIN. Usually this means penetration, (but not discounting lesbians/gays/bisexuals, who may just have a sexual partner that doesn't involve penetration) but it can also just be your first sexual partner. Yes, I understand this is "fact."

I'm also not saying that I don't believe in the IDEA of virginity: i.e., waiting until marriage, or until you are in love, etc.

What I REFUSE to believe in is VIRGINITY itsself. It's a sexist concept.

It's anti-woman.

Why?

BECAUSE YOU CAN NEVER.....EVER....PROVE THAT A MAN IS A VIRGIN.....and yet, supposedly, with women, you can.

How is this right? How is this fair?

Let's discuss the hymen. An unperforated hymen is proof positive that a woman is a virgin. Okay, I'll buy it.

But consider this: by the time I knew I was supposed to have one (fifth grade, long before I knew what sex was, and even further from the time I actually did it) I DIDN'T have one. Why? Who knows. I was a tomboy/sporty girl/rough housing, tree-climbing, always skinned knees and elbows kid. When did it happen? I don't know. How could I know, when I didn't even know I was supposed to care about an extraneous piece of flesh?

So...did that make me not a virgin? Did some tree take my virginity? Did some active use of my body take it? When was I no longer a virgin?

I'll tell you. When I had my first sexual partner. Now, if he had cared about my HYMEN being unbroken, he would have thought I wasn't a virgin. Because--and here's the kicker...you can't PROVE you are a virgin without it!!!!!!

Barbaric! Sexist!! I call FRAUD!! NOT fair.

Now let's talk about the virgin with her unperforated hymen who has given 100 blow jobs before her wedding day. Sure, she's TECHNICALLY a virgin...but how "pure" is she?

Hmmm....that "blows" holes in the whole virgin=unperforated hymen=pure woman.

And as for MARY....who started the whole mess....

Well, now, that's not accurate either. No where in the original Bible did it say she was a Virgin. In fact, there are still references today, in even the King James version of the Bible, to the fact that Joseph was TEASED unmercifully...."nudge, nudge, wink wink...hear ole Mary's knocked up...way to go, big boy!"

The truth behind Mary's virginity?

Older religions (those pagans again) were mostly matriarchal. Goddesses ruled!! Well, people had a hard time converting to this patriarchal religion, and grabbed onto Mary as their epitome of the goddess, their goddess proxy. But church officials couldn't have that!! Women were impure!! Women couldn't be goddesses!! Women were evil...those pagan goddesses, they were heathen...they were impure...they were...GASP!! SEXUALLY LIBERATED!! After all, ancient pagan myths had the goddesses breeding every year to renew the earth!

So...how to appease the masses, and still give them their goddess-proxy, their Mary?

Make her PURE.

Make her.....VIRGIN!!

Bloody brilliant!!

So, there you have it folks. The VIRGIN MYTH, as seen by lara.

Comments? I welcome them!! Opposition? Hurrah!! Teach me something...make me see something I've missed. I look forward to it.

Let's have a real discussion here.

No you are ok by me.

Don't know if Mary was a virgin or not. Don't care. So many don't want to believe she had children after Jesus by F**king Joseph. Her HUSBAND for crying out loud.

I hate the double standard in this world and if you want me to rant and rave I will. Do you know that if a woman is RAPED in some countries SHE is put in jail for dragging a MAN into sin!!!!

But I'll stop there.

Good post.

interesting post lara...I can't wait to see where this goes.

Originally posted by larasteele
Comments? I welcome them!! Opposition? Hurrah!! Teach me something...make me see something I've missed. I look forward to it.
Let's have a real discussion here. [/B]

Here's a few comments for ya...

Anyone with the brainpower to go one on one with you probably has brains enough to pass on this one.

I think those who interpret the whole virginity thing are missing the point.

They see the vagina as the most important gift a woman can give to a man. It's not her vagina, it's her love.

Unfortunately the people who believe this didn't come up with these ideas in a vacuum.

An now a word in defense of Tom. (I'm feeling brave)

As ugly as Tom's perspective is right now, it's not entirely his fault.

He did come around asking for perspectives. I think he at least suspects his perspective is faulty.

Attacking him personally is really not right thing to do.

SNSW

P.S. Give him some time, maybe even weeks, to digest what's been said so far. There have been some perspectives presented that will take some time to reconcile.

P.P.S. Tom if you're reading this - Was Nicole a virgin when you married her?

I personally think Tom is trolling for virgins on a "younger women" board. Otherwise, why did he post here? He hasn't said one word about any sort of age-gap relationship. He hasn't even tried to have a discussion. Yes, the thread has gotten off topic and we have had some fun with it, but he did delete it the first three times a dissenting opinion was raised. I feel from that alone that he wasn't here to have a discussion, but I guess we'll find out the truth if he ever responds. I am also rather miffed that he used Bella's words against the rest of us, when she did not mean them in the way that he implied she did. I don't feel that *I* attacked him. It's in my nature to make jokes about even serious subjects. If he showed that he did want to discuss this as adults then I would be perfectly happy to do so. He said in his post that he expected some negative opinions. He should not have posted at all if he wasn't prepared to defend his ideas to at least some extent. You just can't go around insulting people and not expect them to fight back. I'm not at all truly upset about any of this, and am actually having quite a bit of fun with it. I just don't respect someone who states an opinion and then either cannot or will not defend it.


As far as virgins go, I completely agree with Lara. Many people are sexually active long before they actually have intercourse. In fact, these days oral sex is very popular among teenagers because they somehow think it is "safe." They may be having less "sex" but they are not necessarily less sexually active.

The desire for female virginity is one of the oldest double-standards around. It is getting better, slowly, but there are still far too many people who want to label sexual women negatively. The only purpose is to control women's actions by attempting to socially ostracize them if they step out of line.

My two cents:

The Hebrew word normally translated into English as "virgin", as in "the Virgin Mary", in fact means nothing more than "young woman".

On the whole, I'd agree that Larasteele's analysis is pretty much true.

Originally posted by SomeNightSW
Here's a few comments for ya...

Anyone with the brainpower to go one on one with you probably has brains enough to pass on this one.

Was that a compliment?

Seriously, I'm not..."cruising" for an argument here. I, personally, felt the need to say a few things on the topic of virginity. And as I don't take kindly to the idea of someone arbitrarily deleting threads because they are disagreed with, I wanted to post it separately, and give other people the chance to post here as well. If you have opinions and ideas, and want to share them, I think it's great! I'm not trying to be a troublemaker....well, okay. A little. But only because any HINT of attitudes that oppress women PISS ME OFF!

I think those who interpret the whole virginity thing are missing the point.

They see the vagina as the most important gift a woman can give to a man. It's not her vagina, it's her love.

Unfortunately the people who believe this didn't come up with these ideas in a vacuum.

Agree.

An now a word in defense of Tom. (I'm feeling brave)

As ugly as Tom's perspective is right now, it's not entirely his fault.

He did come around asking for perspectives. I think he at least suspects his perspective is faulty.

Attacking him personally is really not right thing to do.

I have no intention of attacking tom personally. That's why I made my own little world...err, thread...over here where it's happy and joyous and everyone agrees with me.....wait, that's his thread again.

Look, guys, I don't expect everyone to agree with me either. I just wanted to present an opportunity for discussion that was removed from the threat of deletion.

Also, I AM pretty riled up about the topic, and whenever I tried to respond on that other thread, it DID come out looking like a personal attack.

So come one over, y'all, it's Saturday morning and I'm making pancakes! (And preparing to fillet anything that dissents!:D )

Blame it on the PURITANS:(

They were definately suffering from repressed sexual tensions.

Also, as to the Hebrew word translation; just goes to show that the saying 'got lost in the translation' is so true.

Originally posted by larasteele
So come one over, y'all, it's Saturday morning and I'm making pancakes! (And preparing to fillet anything that dissents!:D )

Yummmmmmmmm!

Wait...Whats dissents again??

Yikes!

Well I think if I had waited for a 'virgin' for my first encounter.......I may have still been one now!:D Ahh.....the power of cheese! OOPS wrong thread!

I saw a documentary...in fact I was searching online just now to see if I could reference it....anyway....

After the Mayflower landed, there were many weddings....

And...social registers reflect a WHOLE crop of "preemies" born that year. Big preemies. Fully-developed preemies.....

Our ancestors were no more or less virginal than we are.

Originally posted by larasteele
I saw a documentary...in fact I was searching online just now to see if I could reference it....anyway....

After the Mayflower landed, there were many weddings....

And...social registers reflect a WHOLE crop of "preemies" born that year. Big preemies. Fully-developed preemies.....

Our ancestors were no more or less virginal than we are.

LOL... The PURITANS existed before the Mayflower ever set sail.

Makes one wonder just why some of them set sail to begin with:rolleyes: Get my drift? (bad pun, so sorry:D) hehehe

edit: joking aside, here is an interesting link to puritans and pilgrims http://www.puritansermons.com/banner/logan1.htm

another link: http://www.exlibris.org/nonconform/engdis/puritans.html

Another Interesting link: http://www.neo-tech.com/history/

Every new bit of information and education I receive takes some old preconceived notion and tears it apart. I always "knew" that Pilgrims were Puritans. Huh. Now I see something else that was missed or skipped over in history lessons. I do enjoy learning new things. I don't think it's amusing that I didn't know these things...I think it is sad.

Interesting links, Saltwater. Especially the last one.

Yeah Lara..... I agree, the more we learn the more we find out that we really do not know.

What I find really interesting is that much of the repression we experience in many areas of our lives is due to 'church' influence.

Now why is that?

IMHO, it is about control. I'll leave it at that. The rant I could go on might not be to pretty:D

Restoring Virginity
Hymen repair surgery saves lives at the expense of deception

by Sue Yeon Choi

In some cultures, it is more than her sparkling eyes, her radiant smile, or her exhilarating personality that makes a woman a desirable bride. It is in-stead the presence of a women's hymen, something which can affect her marriage prospects, her family's reputation, and even her very life. For these women, hymenorraphy, or hymen repair surgery, may actually provide an escape from grave social persecution.

The hymen is a membranous fold of tissue that covers the external vaginal orifice. The biological function of the human hymen is still uncertain; scientists hypothesize that it protects the vagina from infection in infants. The social function of the hymen, however, has been and still is a mythical symbol of virginity in many cultures. Upon initial intercourse, a woman's hymen ruptures and bleeds. The image of a bloody sheet is highly celebrated in many cultures because it represents the purity of a woman and the virility of a man.

In these non-Western societies, the virginity of the bride is valued for religious, social, and even economic reasons. For example, the Koran, the Islamic holy book, states that the bride must be a virgin. In China, the bride's virginity determines the amount of betrothal gifts. "The presence of the hymen is particularly important for families of prestige who want to keep the family lineage non-contaminated," explained Professor Charles S. Nicoll from the Department of Integrative Biology at University of California (UC), Berkeley. These traditional cultural beliefs demand the "bloody sheet" no matter what.

According to a survey conducted by Dr. Sara Paterson-Brown, consultant obstetrician and gynecologist at Queen Charlotte's Hospital in London, however, the sheet may not tell the complete truth. When she surveyed 41 female colleagues about their first intercourse experiences, she found that only 14 bled, 26 did not, and one did not re- member. Dr. Paterson-Brown explained, "Factors such as sporting activities and use of tampons mean that bleeding with first sexual intercourse is not inevitable." Moreover, the hymen of some women are very elastic and will allow penetration without bleeding. Research, therefore, like Dr. Paterson-Brown's, show that the presence of the hymen is not an accurate indicator of virginity.

Unfortunately, the consequences of not bleeding, or being a "non-virgin" bride, can be severe. In many Mediterranean and African cultures, the husband's family may take revenge through violent punishments and banishment of the bride because the "non-virgin" bride "shamed" them. Among the Yungar people of Australia, girls without the hymen before marriage were starved, tortured, or even killed. In Arab countries, the "non-virgin" brides may be killed by her brothers, uncles, or even fathers. The perpetrators often escape prosecution due to the strong customs that justify such murders.

Clearly, those who seek hymenorraphy believe that the procedure is necessary for their social status, happiness, and even preservation of life. In the past ten years in Egypt, the hymen repair surgery has reduced 80 percent of the murders committed when a bride was found not to be a virgin on the wedding night, according to the June 1996 issue of the British medical journal, The Lancet.

A typical hymen repair surgery involves suturing the remnants of the ruptured hymen together along with a gelatin capsule containing a blood-like substance. A small section of vaginal wall is dissected for the reconstruction when the hymenal remnants are insufficient, but the procedure is considered relatively simple. The husband will be convinced of the bride's virginity when the capsule bursts during intercourse.

Cost of this fake virginity? Not cheap. In Egypt, women are paying US $100-600 for the operation, which can be done in clinics or even in private houses. In Turkey, the price for hymenorraphy is estimated to be between $140 and $1500, averaging at about $570. The June 8, 1996 issue of The Lancet cited an example of a woman who "managed to avoid sexual intercourse for four months by pretending to be insane...[while] she was saving up for the operation."

The lucrative procedure can be quite appealing to physicians. One Turkish gynecologist expressed her view on the subject in the 1997 issue of Women's Studies International Forum: "...since there is a demand in the society, what can be wrong with offering supply?"

The financial gain, however, is not the only factor motivating doctors to provide this service. Physicians who choose to perform hymen reconstruction feel they have a professional responsibility to their patients. Some, like Dr. Paterson-Brown, believe that hymenorraphy is comparable with plastic surgery in ethical terms and justifiable in circumstances when the women would otherwise suffer disgrace or worse, death.

Others argue that performing hymenorraphy is unethical because the physician participates in a plot of deception. They believe it is disrespectful to the person that the woman will be marrying and that marriage should be built on love, respect, and decency. Since the procedure is illegal in many of the countries where the demand for it is the greatest, choosing to perform the procedure or not becomes a legal issue as well.

Moreover, although hymenorraphy may be directly beneficial for the well-being of the patient, some physicians feel that it could lead to negative consequences in a larger cultural context. Dr. Guy Micco, director of UC Berkeley Center for Medicine, believes that performing such surgeries tends to perpetuate a harmful cultural belief that all brides must provide the bloody sheet or be subject to cruelty when they do not.

An article in the 1997 issue of Women's Studies International Forum stated that in some countries like Morocco, it is no secret that the virginity of the bride may be artificial. "[Resolving this irony] must be the aim of education," said Dr. Paterson-Brown. Emphasizing the importance and need for education in this matter, she added, "I have been asked [to perform hymenorraphy], but I have never had to do it, since detailed discussion and education have persuaded those concerned [that] it is not needed."

This issue questions the fundamental role of a physician. Should the primary responsibility of a physician be strictly to save lives or instead to cater to patients' needs whatever they may be? Or does a physician have a predominant responsibility to the overall health of society? While some women continue to seek hymenography as a solution to social pressures, the worldwide medical community will continue to struggle with these questions.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sue Yeon Choi is an molecular cell biology major who wants a pet neuron.



Berkeley Medical Journal Issues ©


THATS what i'm talking about

Here's the real question.....What exactly is a virgin?

I remember that in Greek mythology, a virgin was considered a childless woman. Sex was never mentioned. But be that as it may, many years ago, I used to enjoy listening to a late night radio talk show called, "LOVE PHONES w/DR. JUDY". It was very similiar to MTV's "Loveline" with Dr. Drew as it was a question/answer session with a sex therapist and humorous radio DJ with millions of listeners and callers.

Well, Dr. Judy presented the topic of virgins on her show and I very much agreed with her theory. And that is and IMPO, a virgin is a person (male or female) who have ABSOLUTELY NO sexual experience whatsoever. No maturbation, no oral sex (giving or receiving), no anal penetration, or any type of sexual simulations. Otherwise, many feel that a virgin is someone who has never had vaginal penetration sex.

A few years ago, this topic came up at my job. During our lunch break, a YW coworker of ours told a few of us that she felt that she was still a virgin eventhough she's participated in the submission and receiving of oral sex and nothing else. But several of us, myself included, broke her heart and told her that she was no longer a virgin, since it was still considered SEX.

OMG, Chosen. That makes a lot of sense, but now I've lost my virginity a lot younger than I had previously claimed! :eek:

Originally posted by PinkPanther_04
OMG, Chosen. That makes a lot of sense, but now I've lost my virginity a lot younger than I had previously claimed! :eek:
That's right, you little tease you.........LOL

I've had the same conversation with friends...it's interesting to hear the many variations people have of what is sex and what isn't sex. Oral sex was argued for a while... a few say it isn't sex...but alas it says it in the name, oral SEX! But for some reason penetration with a finger was considered closer to sex than oral...I wonder if they are characterizing with a penis...hmmm.

Yes this subject is a very complex one. For me, virginity is simply waiting until marriage before becoming sexually active...simple as that. Thats how I was brought up and that is what I believe virginity is......but its not only the physical FACT that the penis went in the vagina, its also whats in your heart. Its that you are so in love that you will allow yourself to be taken to the most intimate level.
I have also heard many different version of what 'marriage' is considered. Becouse you might ask yourself,"So if I'm waiting until marriage to become active...then what exactly IS marriage?"
But thats a whole other can of beans ;-)

Now, onto Tom....I dont' understand how my post was so mis-understood, but he managed to twist it inside out. I'm glad the thread is gone because I was becoming more and more embarresed seeing my words quoted as the basis for the first entry. And it was ridiculous how he wouldn't even respond to our questions.
Thats my thought.

Maybe you should start a new thread, Bella, opening a new can of beans.

LOL, maybe ;-)
But it seems pointless to debate a subject that everyone has such different views about. I guess it would be interesting to see what everyong thinks...but naaaaa. I'll save it for a rainy day.

well then today is your day...it's raining here!

LOL...shoot! I forgot the rain would get to you today. It was raining here yesterday.

so now what?! Open up a new can of beans?

I have a quick question for all those who are reading...howmany of you out there really don't consider oral sex to be sex? (So we stay somewhat on topic here.)

Hmmmmmm..............
I consider it foreplay. Yep, because sex involves a penis penetrating the vagina. Oral sex is definitally being sexually active though, but not sex.

okay..the what about lesbians...are fingers and tounges not sex?

So Bill was telling the truth when he shook his finger at us and said...

"I did not have sex with that woman"

Originally posted by BellaLove
Hmmmmmm..............
I consider it foreplay. Yep, because sex involves a penis penetrating the vagina. Oral sex is definitally being sexually active though, but not sex.

LOL! :D :D :D

Well, thats an interesting thought.
No, I don't consider tongues and fingers sex, I just don't. Its definitally sexual...but unless there is a 'salami'....... lol
-hope I dont' offend anyone-

Know the difference between 30 seconds of sex and 30 seconds of oral sex?

what??

Got a minute?

:rolleyes:



That's pretty funny. :D

lol....not bad,not bad

LOL...Bella said salami!
mmmm....now I'm hungry! :D

SEX!

Now I have had ORAL SEX! (shall I say it again)

SEX!

Insert penis into vagina!

Is that SEX!

Hell NO!

Your 2 quarts LOW:D

Saltwater, you are great..... did you make that up? brilliant...and all to the tune of that "war, what is it good for?" song.

ha, that is great.

Please tell me that's not a cadence, Saltwater. :rolleyes: :D

Hmmmmm.... so I just asked 'C' if he considered oral sex to be sex. He said yes...I asked him to think about it and he came up with, "its not quite sex, but its more than foreplay". I thought that was a pretty good way to explain it.

I guess to each their own huh!?
I dunno, I know it's know it's not sex, but it's not foreplay...what the hell?!

Originally posted by BellaLove
Hmmmmmm..............
I consider it foreplay. Yep, because sex involves a penis penetrating the vagina. Oral sex is definitally being sexually active though, but not sex.

Either way, they both involve insertion. Therefore, it's sex.

I don't think so..........I beg to differ with you Chosen.


you need the salami for it to be 'sex'

...the really interesting thing is you never approached it from the desire point of view. I have seen many arguments regarding virginity as having been "broken" by thought, and if that were to be the case, then I'd dare to argue that many of "us" have lost our virginity way before the physicality of losing it.

As having graduated from a university with an English degree, I'm always intrigued by the sense of language and perspective of language people choose to use in their expression of certain topics; and this is one of those great moments.

Religious "officials" have argued the point for eons, that the thought towards sexual encounters (I'm not quite sure if penetration was part of the discussion or not at the time) was always most likely breaking the virginal boundary --naturally, they work under the naivete that thought leads to the inevitability of action. That always flabbergasted me, because I always found this "stop it in its tracks" behavior delimiting towards any kind of education between the subjects religion and sex education. It seems to have led to a denial for years, of parameters about sex which can be controlled, in the face of religious adherence: namely, I speak of the understanding of birth control, and how many religions don't condone the use of it.

It's almost as if religion's denial of "it" separates sex far enough to perpetuate objectivity (or subjectivity, as one poster so aptly notated the sexism of virginity being applied to only women --no wonder why the church's roles are all held by men). I think, if approached properly, like the Kama Sutra, for example puts it into proper context, and gives it a respect which it deserves; had the Kama been universally plugged into a must read for all religions, I would dare say that we'd have to worry about the problems related to the sex industry as much as we do today (although, would one dare even to say the sex industry is experiencing more embracing than it ever was?)

Interesting...very interesting.....

I wish I were a virgin; I would be so proud that I am waiting until marriage. Gosh-dangit!!!

http://burns.thefinaldimension.org/otn/sad/rain.gif

well we all know that Sarah Jessica Parker isn't a virgin!

LOL...isn't that the truth!! But , I love her hair!!! I want it!!

I wonder if that's what did it for Matthew Brodderick.

Originally posted by capricious_jo
...the really interesting thing is you never approached it from the desire point of view. I have seen many arguments regarding virginity as having been "broken" by thought, and if that were to be the case, then I'd dare to argue that many of "us" have lost our virginity way before the physicality of losing it.


What?
I lost my virginity the first time I thought about sex??

WOW I lost mine when I was 4 then!.......I walked in on mommy and daddy and thought EWWW now THATS just gross! (well I had to think about it then)

By 9 I was lookin at girls and thinking...ok so this is supposed to go there.....Hmm??

But I think I must have really lost it at 12 when the idea actually sounded like a good idea!!:D :D :D

Don

whoa! you walked inon your parents...thank goodness I never encountered that...but I did hear them! :eek:

AH-HEM!!

You guys are hijacking my thread!

Look, I know we get off track a whole lot around here, but this is a serious issue.

Virginity, the myth of it, the patriarchal hatefullness that supports it, the masochistic countries where women are killed for losing it....

It's great that you are visiting this thread and keeping it at the top....

But it's an important issue, and I don't want that lost in the fun....

So shoo! shoo! go to the flirting thread!:p

(thanks guys. It really is important, a personal issue, an issue that I want treated as fairly as possible with all the differing viewpoints around here!):p

*cough*
uh...er...yes..uh

Virginity!

<<<......Starts Humming Madonnas song

Like a virgin............

Touched for the very first time............

Like a virrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgin.....:D

Now everybody quit singing it and get back to posting!

*That had nothing to do with me*

But seriously, am I less desirable (sp?) if I'm not a virgin. Why? I still am who I am inside. I still have my same sense of humor, my same morals and outlook on life? What makes me so different...other than my vast sexual knowledge.

Originally posted by EMCAD80
*That had nothing to do with me*

But seriously, am I less desirable (sp?) if I'm not a virgin. Why? I still am who I am inside. I still have my same sense of humor, my same morals and outlook on life? What makes me so different...other than my vast sexual knowledge.

Sorry to dwell upon a different subject but..............EMCAD.........

Looking at your new AV keeps making me to wonder what the hell are you doing in it?

Honestly, I'm trying not to have pervertic thoughts of its appearance:D

Oh you would have perverted thoughts Chosen!!! Lol
Geez, isn't it obvious???? Come-on now.....think....put that brain to work man ;-) lol, lol

http://www.stupid-boy.com/smilies/cwm/3dlil/nonono2.gif

Originally posted by BellaLove
Oh you would have perverted thoughts Chosen!!! Lol
Geez, isn't it obvious???? Come-on now.....think....put that brain to work man ;-) lol, lol

http://www.stupid-boy.com/smilies/cwm/3dlil/nonono2.gif

Okay, taking the observation notes from my police academy notebook.............

I see a woman with a smile on her face, who's head is bowing downward and in the background is a man's chest......hmmmm :D

But it's okay. I read on another thread what she was doing. But I was right. There was bobbing involved :p

LOL @ Chosen....NOW look at her avatar!!! Geez... and you thought the last one was bad!! LOL

She is one wild chica!!!!

Yeah...sorry guys...i was drunk on Halloween and decided to take some funny pictures. yes...I'm licking a mans nipple! :D

Originally posted by EMCAD80
Yeah...sorry guys...i was drunk on Halloween and decided to take some funny pictures. yes...I'm licking a mans nipple! :D

And here she wants us to think that she's all sweet and innocent.
PPPSSSTTT!!! Yeah, right.:p
Just the way I love my YW........LOL

who ever said I was sweet and innocent?

emmie after some thought about what you said regarding the pakistan thing, i 've changed my mind and i would be in favor of advocating those things, on two conditions , if the treatment was the same for men as it would be for women and secondly if a women is capable of making those big decisions in life, why can't she be held accountable for it ? how else would they teach them whats important to respect ? just my two cents, anyway later.

Originally posted by ralph_lauren
i 've changed my mind

Wow thats great! I've heard brain surgery has come a long way these days! Hope your feeling up to par really soon!:)