would love some advice

hello everyone it's me again needing your support and comments.

well here goes for you that have been here for the past year that know nessa and i. You all know we have had out hard times in this relationship. I'm here to see comments on thing but first i will give you a breif summary of things for those who dont know us that well.

for the past year nessa and i had our hard time cause of me lying to her about alot of things. Now she is haveing a hard time believeing me and has a big trust problem with me.I know i did wrong in lying to her and right now i'm doing everything in my power to show her i have changed but there are still times we fight over things cause she doesnt believe me. I'm to the point that i want her to see that now i will be honest with her about everything so i will show her who called me and i save e-mail and i log all my chats so see can see what i'm doing when she isnt around me.

I'm doing much better on telling her the truth about things and i stopped playing games.I also want to say that when a man or a player really falls in love with sonmeone they can stop playing. i'm living proof of this.So now i need advise on what should i do to get her to see that i'm being honest with her and how long do you think it would take to gain her trust back?

p.s i love nessa wih all my heart and i'm willing to do anything to show her. and i wont get upset on anything you have to say cause i know now i did her wrong with the lies and i'm trying my best to make sure i'm honest with her from this point on.

well, remember, bigbri, once you bite into a soft center, you can't put it back in the candy box. it is highly unlikely she will ever trust you again, or want to trust you. trusting someone means not wanting to control them or have power over them, and from what i've read, you two have some serious control issues. and if that's the case, and neither of you want to work on them, then why stay together?

Mel first off i would like to thank you for responding to this thread. i just want to let you know that this is why i'm posting this cause i dont want the drama in our lives anymore and that we are not into controling each other. there was alot of drama and i want it to end and get on with our lives. i understand your opinion but she tells me she does want to trust me.

Brian, give yourselves time. Time build things but also has the power to almost "erase" bad memories from our daily lives (not forever, but at least enough so that we can continue to live).

Give yourselves time. And work hard to prove you are trustable. Don't give her reasons to suspect you. Be open and transparent. That's all you can do now.

Couple counselling sounds good too. I think you are in the good way.

I agree with Maria. One thing you have to accept is that she's not going to trust you for a while and you have to be okay with her not trusting you. It takes time and effort on your part and you have to truly want to put that effort in and just hang in there. If it's truly worth it to you to be under the microscope for a long while then be there. If you don't think you can handle it, then bow out gracefully. You are working under her timeline. As far as Nessa goes..she has to give you a chance to prove yourself. She has to ask herself if she's willing to work on this with you as well. Does she want to forgive you? Does she truly want to trust you?

These are questions that you'll be facing if you decide to do couples therapy. It's tough work, very challenging, but worthwhile if you want to get through this. And even if you don't end up together, you'll learn valuable lessons.

Good luck you two!

Time and being open. Making her feel secure and can believe what you are telling her. Once you have broken a trust nothing else will relieve the lack of trust. In order to get it back, you have to earn it.

Of course, so long as you are one the straight and narrow what are you worrying about. She just declared herself openly on a post above me. She's yours, so long as you are the man you should be. Keep doing what you have been doing, and you won't screw it up.

Hi Brian.

It is really admirable of you to admit that you lied to Nessa. My boyfriend lied to me about some things during our first year together. He didn't cheat on me, it wasn't about that, but he lied about some things that he didn't think that I needed to know about and it boomeranged on him in a horrific way. I forgave him three times, but I doubt that I will again.

Now, he maintains that he is not lying anymore. I asked him once for some information which he hasn't provided to me, though. Anyway, it will take a loooong time for me to be able to trust him again--that is, if I am ever able to. I advise you to continue to provide Nessa with any info she asks you for, even if you think it is ridiculous. She is a sensitive creature, so you will have to work extra hard to regain her trust. But, it will be worth it. You are a great couple together.

I just want to say thanks to everyone> Nessa and i read all the responds and we agree on all the point that was brought up. I will keep you all informed on how things are going.

I agree that it is going to take some time. I have no doubt that you love Nessa and I also have no doubt that she loves you. But she has to also protect herself and once a person has been lied to it takes a great deal to overcome that. For you, you will have to earn that trust again. It sounds to me like you are on the right track to do that.

I would suggest a good book and unfortunately, I don't remember the author's name, but the book is titled "How to get the Love you Want" It does have some great exercises for the two of you to follow.

I think you two are right for each other and I do hope both of you will continue to work through this issue. Believe me, it will be worth it in the end.

Brian -- Just a sidenote from me: I would give anyone a second chance if they were showing a genuine, sincere effort to rectify the problem. But one, slip up, one lie and you would be out the door!! Don't let that happen.

Nessa -- Try to ease up just a little in the inquisition department. Sounds like he is trying to bring the relationship up to speed and maybe he should be rewarded with a little in the trust department.

Good luck to the both of you. :)

Admitting to lying is one thing - unless you were caught out at lying rather than confessed to it yourself - if you were just caught out .....its another matter. The important thing to do now is to address why you lied in the first place? This is the next step for you in my opinion.

If you have truely addressed the issues of what and why and have decided you can work through these then the "how" will just come with time...if you have just got a temporary fix, like an elastoplast on a weeping wound, to keep you both in a comfort zone it wont be so easy. The hurting bit is the "what and why".....once this is addressed the how is the healing bit and should be a learning and loving process for both of you. I hope it works out for you two, Im not myself a quitter or indeed a fan of comfort zones - you have to work through them before you find the real person and thats the person who you need to know completely - warts and all - before you really commit to someone. I wish you both all you would wish yourselves.

Brian, I hope you don't need the rest of us to tell you what a wonderful and special woman you have in Nessa. And how VERY hard it would be to find someone like her again.

That said, I find a relationship rather like a china cup:

The handle of the cup can be broken, and glued back together, and you can still drink out of the cup, but you wonder when the glue will wear off and the handle will break again. And without the handle, the cup is useless.

Without steadfast trust, a relationship is useless. If you are not trustworthy, you need not be in a relationship.

Nessa I love that you don't hold the handle exclusively, it seems to some that the handle is the most important part of the cup, your Brian is the whole shabang dear, he not only posts here with HIS opinions on your relationship, he is also a main supporter of YOU on your relationship together,
The "handle" is merely the part that can break off and become reattached, the cup is the one that is filled with love.
I think you 2 have that going
Hugzz
~Tammy

I think you two already have what it takes to make things the way you wish. You love each other and that is obvious. And Brian, when these things first came up, I seem to remember most of the people here telling Nessa that she should dump you. At least that is the gist of what I remember. But she saw something in you....loved you.....and was willing to trust you and stay with you. And she has. But she was hurt, and all of us what to protect ourselves from that happening again and when something looks funny to us, it can make us think that maybe we were fools to trust. Just give her time.....and Nessa....do your best to let go.

Brian...

I know you are a good man at heart. Anyone can see that...

When I was younger, I had a very bad chronic problem with lying. It started when I was in grade school. I was unpopular, so I would lie so I could fit in. I'd lie about kissing a girl...I'd lie about doing this and doing that...just to fit in...

As I got older, the lies spread. Same topics as before. But, I'd lie for no reason. "Did you see that movie?" "Oh yeah, I did." When, I actually hadn't seen it. Why did I lie? I don't know. I simply don't know. I lied to my parents alot. Not about bad activities like drugs or what have you...but, stupid stuff. Pittily stuff. "What did you do at school today?" And...I would lie. I would embelish the truth...so much so, that it became a lie.

And when I got into a relationship with someone at the time I thought loved me? (My last gf I'm talking about.) I lied to her.

I had a chronic problem. And it has only been in the last few years that, I've been able to overcome my problems. Through sheer willpower...through hard work and dedication...

For those you have lied to...there is no magic thing that makes it better. All you can do is show them that you have changed, because you need to earn there trust back. And, there is no special thing you can do each day to show them that you have changed. Just your everyday normal actions...and time. Others have said it...and I'm saying it. Time...patience and open'ness....

If you slip and lie? Tell the truth right away and show the honesty in your eyes. It's not always easy and it may hurt both of you...but, it's better to let things come out right away then let it fester. And, you may have slip ups. I have...but....I am only human. Luckily, I'm not a chronic liar like I had been...

Good luck and happy times to you both,

~Dan

Hi Nessa,

Thank you for your kind words. *smiles*

Actually, I did get your PM. However, today I have been bouncing around between the office and doing a few things...so I haven't been able to really sit down and reply to my PM's today. Sorry about that...

Thank you for your kind words though, Nessa....that meant alot to me...*Hugs*

~Dan

dan i liked what you said cause i'm the same as you i wa like that and now i'm learning not o be that way anymore but its hard to stop oncw you are use to it. i have lied about things that was so little like when i was a kid i got into the cookie jar and ate a cookie. when i was asked why did i get a cookie after i was told not to i just said cause i wanted to give it to my brother who at the time was 1 yr old.
.

then it went from there to other things i lied in school about how many fights i got into and how many times i was kicked out of school just to look popular. then i would lie to a person so i wouldnt hurt them. not thinking that the lie would hurt them more. That is what got me in to trouble here but now with the help of nessa and many of you kind friends i'm doing better. so i really like to thank you and everyone who is giving me advice and helping me get over telling lies.

You all totally missed my "china cup" analogy. You HAVE to use the handle. If you wrap your fingers around the cup itself, you'll get burned! The handle insures that you won't get burned. If it isn't strong enough, because it was broken and glued back on, it'll break eventually, and you'll still get burned.

My point is, "How does Nessa not get burned again?" In my opinion, she doesn't rely on a faulty handle.

Brian, I think it's really good that you're recognizing lying as a hurtful thing, and are trying to break the habit. Honesty is ALWAYS the best policy, ALWAYS! Even when you think you're going to piss someone off with the truth, being pissed is temporary, but when they see that you are an honest, sincere person, they'll be so much more respectful of you and appreciative as well.

Every time you begin to speak, hesistate, and ask yourself..."Is this the TRUTH?"

I as well think that Brian's willingness to admit that he has been less than honest in many cases is admirable, but I also would tread very very slowly even if he had "changed direction". Nes will need time as any of us would as it is very difficult to go backwards from total trust to that trust being betrayed. More times than not, I would not give someone who had betrayed my trust another chance, but it does seem like you really mean to straighten this out Brian.

Counseling would be a very very good support system as you both work through this ... do go and take advantage of a third impartial party. And I do wish you both the best of luck. Knowing what I know of both of you, I always believed that if you both decided that you would TRY TOGETHER to make it work, it would ... work.

Blessings ...

I think from what my brother once told me, and from what it did for him, that in some cases a group like landmark forum - landmarkforum.com - may help in that it helps you examine many aspects of your life and, as he put it, walk out of there after the weekend seminar ready to start life over having put most if not all of the garbage behind you. In his case it was a drug and alcohol addiction, a terrible temper, and so on. He was impressed with the program when he went through it and it helped him when no counseling could and for a time if not even now - he is in another state so I am not sure of this - he was a volunteer with the organization in order to help others. this is a program which only last for one weekend, after sever meetings during the week to lay the groundwork, but as you will see from the site if you visit has helped some make some profound changes in their lives for the better.
As far as something discussed earlier in this thread, helping or giving to others, the big satisfaction in that is often helping another to make a change in their life and just as you can get satisfaction from helping a child grow to be strong, there is also an euphoria in seeing someone you have helped in one way or the other escape a bad situation or better their lot in life.

Nessa, I was in a hurry when I posted that about landmark forum, and still think it a good idea for a lot of people, but in going back today when I had more time I see that it appears you are both working on this so I would suggest one more site online, selfgrowth.com, which is for just that, selfgrowth. I believe we all grow and change and the main thing we can hope to achieve is to grow in directions which brings satisfaction to ourselves and to those we love. Life does not come with an instruction manual unfortionately so we have to learn as we live and sites like selfgrowth can often make that a little easier for us to do. Good luck and well wishes to you both.

Nessa, I'm sorry, I did come across as completely negative. I guess what I was trying to say is that the relationship is permanently "damaged" by his lying. That doesn't mean it can't work, though. I mean, a damaged car, or body, or house can be fixed. A damaged relationship can too. It's just that it's going to be hard for you to trust him (and understandably so), and it's going to take a span of time for Brian to adopt a new behavior, mainly committing to always telling the truth. You're relationship will never be the same, until he's had enough time to prove himself. Then, it might be even stronger.

The thing is, how much more do you want to invest? How much more of your heart are you willing to put at risk? What if he does it again? I hope he doesn't, you hope he doesn't, HE hopes he doesn't, but what if? All I'm saying is, you don't have an easy road ahead of you. It's great if you think he's worth it. Lucky for him. I just happen to think so highly of you, and I don't want to see you allow yourself to be hurt anymore. I'll shut up now, because I feel like my wariness is causing bad feelings, and that's not my intent. I just wish the best for you.

Abaconw, I liked your posts. Those were nice and inspirational. :)

thanks, Polly. I collects sites like that often because of not only what I learn but what I can make available for others. You would never believe the number of bookmarks I have, not including sub-headings included within them. *grin*

I have read all the comments and the advise and i want to thank you all for the help.

i want to address polly's most resent reply. I may not be worth it in many peoples eyes. i cant say it wont happen again. all i can say is i dont want it to happen again . i dont want to lie to her. i found the person i was years ago and i brought him back.

I fell bad about when i did in the past. Hell you can say i hate myself for the lies. The more i think of it nessa see's i'm worth something . i dont see it. what i'm getting at is i cause of my lies i'm not worth anything. right now just working on being honest and hope that one day i will be with something.


again thanks for the advise everyone.

bye friends

Brian...

Everyone lies in one form or another. Whether it's a white lie or a big lie...everyone lies. Everyone.

What you said in response to my reply? Everything example you gave...I can look back and say, "Hey, that was me."

It doesn't make you any less of a person. Hell no. I got told so many times, "It takes a big person to come and admit that you lied and to tell the truth." I got told that so many times cause I would end up telling the truth that it made me sick. I didn't want that to be a common mantra in my life.

The fact that you admitted you had a problem? The fact that you did it in public? That shows you, how much you are worth. That says you are worth ALOT. You're stronger than me, I can tell ya that much. It took me days to make my initial post. Because I was afrad. Because it drudges up old memories and all that emotional baggage, you know? But, it doesn't make you less of a person. People like you? Like me? Like others? We have an honest to god problem....and, it doesn't make us any less of a human being.

What's the old saying? Judge not lest thee be judged? (Something like that?)

I had people that tried to drive the fact into the ground that I was pathetic and immature and that I lacked genitalia because I lied. But, these were the same dang people that would maybe do drugs. That would maybe drink to excess. That would cheat on tests. That would have affairs. They had there own baggage too. And you know what? After so long of getting that crap? I said..."BULL!" and I told them that...I told them, "Don't you DARE judge me. You are NO better than I am."

Yeah, like I said...I may still be weak at some point in my life and slip a lie. Had that happen a few weeks ago at work in an intense situation that I unfairly got dragged into the middle of. But, you know what? I accept that. Because, I'm simply human...

And so are you, Brian...

Your self worth isn't measured by how many lies you've told and how many truths you've admitted to....

It's by your heart. By the strength in your heart and in your soul. And you've already showed by the posts in this thread? That you are strong, in that aspect.

The fact that you came out and admitted what you did? That tells me, you're worth a damn lot more than you think you are worth. Remember, we're all human and we all have our vices and our flaws and short comings.

There is no magic switch to flip. Just remember, you're human. You will make mistakes and you won't always do the right thing. To work out this problem, it can be a long road. BUT...you have Nessa and you have people here.

You'll get there, Brian...

I promise you...

You'll get there...

~Dan

[Quote:]Everyone lies in one form or another. Whether it's a white lie or a big lie...everyone lies. Everyone.

Not EVERYONE lies. I was taught at a very early age not to lie, and I don't. I don't, my brother doesn't, my parents don't, and hey, my CHICKENS don't, so there! Seriously though, there are lots of folks who don't lie. It's a good way to live. Look, I'm not trying to be holier-than-thou. I have my faults, God knows! I may not lie, but I ignore my kids when I shouldn't, I drink too much wine, I don't pay stuff on time, I'm a compulsive spender, and I spend too much time on here, poking my nose in on other people's problems! :D There! Brian, you can officially feel you are a better person than me!

No, but we were discussing the lying thing, and the only reason I hold my ground on this, is because I firmly believe that a relationship doesn't have a chance unless both people are totally honest with eachother and don't hide things from eachother. Making light of lying, or excusing the behavior because "other people do it" is only going to enable the person who has the problem. I'm not trying to make Brian feel like he's worthless, I'm trying to make him see how serious lying is, and how commiting to changing his behavior is the only way he'll have a happy relationship with Nessa. I mean, let's put the shoe on the other foot. BRIAN wouldn't like being lied to, would he? How would he act after catching Nessa in a bunch of lies? How would ANY of you feel catching someone you were in a relationship with in a bunch of lies?

Dan, I think you're a really good person. I don't know Brian as well as you, I haven't read very much of him, but I know it took a lot for both of you to come here and admit to the lying problem. I appreciate that. It takes a really strong person to recognize a problem and address it. I commend you both.

we are under brian's name but we are both here and just read the last post.

brian says:

Polly, I don't think you are trying to make me feel worthless, it's the way I feel about myself knowing i had a lying problem with Nessa from the start.

I respect your views and I admire you for not lying to anyone about anything. The reason I started this thread is to open up and start being honest about everything and that's why i'm asking for help, views and opinions so all opinions are welcome.

as far as not knowing me, if you want to know something please ask me... I would love for folks to get to know me better.

(Nessa says... Maybe Joannalee can interview him and he can be the ageless person of the week)

Nessa asks:

Polly did you ever tell even a white lie...like tell someone you like their dress or hair or something so you wouldn't hurt their feelings? I"m just curious.

IT took a lot for dan to post and for bri to post too and i know that it's helped us. and yeah the relationship will always carry that cloud of former lying but I DO believe a player can come clean and be a good man.... "he may be a real bad boy but baby he's a real good man!"

Brian - - -

I think one of the most important elements in correcting a problem is for the person to acknowledge there is a problem in the first place and then they have to want to correct that problem.

In my opinion, you are there on both of those counts. You recognize you have had a problem in the past with lying and you sincerely want to correct that problem. That is more than half the battle. Even tho it may not be an easy row to hoe, you need to work on it every day and take one day at a time.

Polly - - -

I have to agree with you girl. I don't lie either. It is so much easier to tell the truth. When you start lying then you have to remember what lie you tell and keep lying to make it flow. That sounds like too much work for me. Guess I'm too lazy to lie!! But the main reason I don't lie, is that I don't want people lying to me and how can you expect people to be straight with you if you are not straight with them.

As a side note, if you have not seen the movie Liar, Liar with Jim Carey which came out some years ago, it is a hilarious movie and cracks me up every time I watch it.

Nessa - - -

As far as telling someone something so as to not hurt their feelings: If I don't like your dress, I won't say anything. If you ask me if I like your dress, I will tell you the truth. I won't go out of my way to hurt someone's feelings, because I think that is cruel, but people who know me, know if you ask me I will tell you. So they know if they ask, they are going to get it straight. At the office, there are two of us blatently like this and they call her and me "Blunt" and "Blunter" LOL

going back to the idea of the dress, even then it is possible to not lie but rather to evade, such as You look better in --- and so on. If a girl asks am I fat, it is possible to say pleasantly plump, and so on. I think perhaps lying in some cases is a trait which is encouraged in cases to avoid hurting someones feelings but it is also possible to be truthful in a way so as to avoid hurting feelings and yet still be honest, except perhaps in those case where a young lady states, "Not tonight, I have a headache." lol

depends upon how old she is. I am reminded of the old woman who was walking down the street when approached by a robber who demanded her money. when she said she didn't have any he demanded that she let him seach her. After searching her entire body by feeling inside the various parts of her dress, he finally said to her, well, I guess you don't have any money. Don't stop now, she exclaimed, I will write you a check! lol