Rough Patch

Hi everyone,

I don't actually have the energy right now for a super-long post, but I just wanted to share that we are having some problems. For genuinely the first time in 4 1/2 years. And it's scary.

All of a sudden, in the last few months, we just seem to feel a million miles away from each other, no spark. no special connection. It feels (to both of us) like why is this other person living in my house? Conversations die and we both feel vaguely bored and iritated with each other.

We have talked about it, and as best as we can tell, it seems to have developed around the 2nd move back to the Bay Area. I got a bit stressed out from the 2nd cross-country move in a year, and he just detached a bit emotionally from my "intensity" - which he perceived as anger towards him. Which I don't think it was but perhaps I'm just denying it.

We've both apologized, but somehow that doesn't seem to be enough to clear the air, and the cloud remains.

Neither of us WANTS to break up, but we also, mutually, don't want to spend years of our lives living with this weirdness.

So what do you do when a difficult mood sweeps down and somehow, no matter what you do, just STAYS? And you just can't seem to talk it out?

To date, this had been such a wonderful, easy, joyous relationship that I'm really a bit startled and immensely sad that we seem to have hit an iceberg. I really didn't see it coming. We're not breaking up now, we are going to try to make it work, but obviously, we can't and won't stay together unhappily indefinitely.

Any thoughts or similiar experiences?

I think if you are in love, you ride out the storms. Wait and let it pass. This is probably just a phase. Sometimes things probably just go blah from time to time, no relationship exudes that madly in love quality 24/7. If you love him, and he loves you, just wait and let it pass. Keep doing the things you do together, spend time together, and probably soon the pendelum will swing back the other direction. That's what I would do.

Sail

It might be a good idea to put the phrase, "reflective listening" into your search engine and see if this special way of really hearing someone can work for each of you. It is done from the standpoint of empathy and nonjudgement.

We all want to be understood in a deep way, and sometimes when a relationship has some age on it, we take it for granted. We all have our own "emotional truth" which may not be truth in the ultimate, but truth in how a person feels. Thus, your partner's perception that the stress concerning your move was anger towards him.

If you listen and feed back to him what you are hearing from his words, especially the emotions, he may explore further and find out what he needs to do to feel connected again. And having an empathic partner who wants to understand how he feels without judgement, advice, etc can help him to open up. Perhaps he can do the same for you.

Good luck........

While I have a tendency to boil things down too much sometimes, but what I see in your thread describes soemthing that can become a downward slide. You were stressed, he detached and you have not been able to pull back together. You both want to stay, but it's not coming back to where it was. This is the opposite of the classic way in which we build relationships. When we build solid relationships, each person in the relationship opens up to the other just a little, the person who is opened up to shows they are worth trusting. The two make themselves vulnerable to each other person opens up, then show that there is nothing to worry about with regard to each vulnerability. Sooner or later, they each feel they can trust the person with anything, especially their heart. Think about how you feel when someone makes themselves vulnerable to you. Think about how you feel when someone who trusted you starts to pull away, whether it is an issue of trust or otherwise. You wonder, why are they shutting me out when I want to help them. Maybe you get annoyed. Maybe you wonder why is our relationship changing. Soon you are both withdrawing and not being vulnerable with each other, followed by wondering, consciously or unconsciously, whether the other can be trusted. In either direction, there is a slippery slope. So long as nothing stops the procession, it keeps going down the slope. Why do you think they call it falling in love? When you change directions the way to get it going back in the other is to open yourself up and be vulnerable. It's pretty general, but that's my comment.

DS, I have lived a similar situation and you will never know how much I regret not having looked for help. I should have gone with him to couple's therapy before giving up on a relationship that I simply thought was not viable anymore at that time.

We left things go so far, we couldn't save it anymore nor had the will to do it. I'm talking about my ex-husband. A wonderful man, easy to live with, kind, honest. I have mentioned this sometimes, about how much I wish I could have loved him more, fought more for our marriage.

Sometimes we don't see things clearly. It's difficult to see them because you are inside the situation, you have probably built some routines and gotten used to some attitudes that would deserve some changes.

I think that's when counselling is most helpful. You have always seemed to have an excellent relationship with him, now it's time to think things over and try to figure out what could be changed.

You are an intelligent woman, you'll just have to get some help to be able to understand what is happening.

Great posts so far.
I would consider all the advice here.

Relationships do ebb and flow, like the waves upon a beach.
There are times our mates don't excite us much and then there are times that a mere glance from them lights a fire within us.
We can't dance in the fires ALL the time or they will consume us and yet, we don't want the silent distance to grow either.

I had a similar situation in my past marriage. I waited it out and I also tried new things to "spark" the fires again - even some couseling. For me, it didn't work.
But that is to not say your relationship has gotten to the point that mine did.
All unions are different and some have the foundations that can "weather" the storms and others don't.

I think one of the biggest joys in connecting with another person are the little discoveries - finding out all those delicious things about each other and celebrating the connection you've made with one another.
Once a couple is a "couple" for awhile, those little discoveries are few and far between.
Not to come off as trivial here, but maybe you and he could take on a new venture or plan something for the future that brings you together in an upbeat and creative way?
It might just be a little junket to explore a place that interests you both, but something "different', something to "discover" together?

I don't know the history of your both, so it's hard to say what might be causing the distance.
I DO know it is normal for a couple to find themselves in this situation as it comes with being together for a period of time.

It could be the changes that you have had to endure, with moving and all of that, has both of you feeling displaced within yourselves.
You've lost your footing so to speak, after this move, and you need to DO something to bridge the gap, (to bring you back together).
Counseling is always a good choice and it might put both of you in touch with what is really happening.

Your mood is a certain way, he thinks it means something, you react and he withdraws....and on and on and on.
Then when you try to talk about it, it seems "weird" and even stupid because neither of you can put your finger on what's happening.
As long as you keep the "finger pointing" out of it, you'll do okay.

I think a lot of couples fall into the "I'm just not happy" mode and then everything starts to crumble.
I am not saying you are doing this, but I have seen many couples fall into this and it is a quagmire for sure.

Sometimes the unhappiness is nothing more than the normal doldrums of life. We can't be happy ALL time. If we were, they'd lock us up in a rubber room.
Life consists of happy moments that grace us here and there in life that we tuck away in our scrapbooks.
The rest is pretty darn humdrum.

Not sure if any of this is helpful, but I do feel from what you posted that there is much left to salvage in your relationship.
You just need to find that spark again.
It's there.

Aww, DS.
I think you guys still have it. I bet you were a little underneath angry with him, and why not? You changed your whole life for him, and I remember when you moved, how hard on you it was.
I agree with Maria, sometimes you need a totally uninvolved person to help you sound things out to each other.
I know if we hadn't done counseling, we probably wouldn't have made it.
If you love each other yet, it can be worked out. Its when you get to the point that you just don't care anymore, that its probably too late. Just don't let it get there.
There are big time ebbs and flows. Sometimes you just wonder what you ever saw in that lump sitting next to you, and then something happens, and its like, oh yeah, that's what.
Sometimes you just have to ride out the blahs, pretend everything's ok, and suddenly it is again.
I've talked a lot to people who've been married for decades lately, trying to figure out the secret. The most common response it, well, when you don't like him, you stay anyway, and eventually, you like him again. I think it's called committment.
I also have asked lots, if they were glad they'd stayed, even when they didn't like him/her, and mostly, the response has been overwhelmingly, of course!
Try to look at him objectively, remember what it is you do like about him, and play to those strengths. If you still like him, that's the biggest step in falling back in love.
Work at it! I don't want to see another one go down the tubes.

I'm going to add my vote to the counseling suggestion.

I can't recall exactly when your move took place, but it seems to me that it was some time ago, so you've been living like this (and, presumably, trying to figure out the problem) for quite a while now. I get the sense that there are some undercurrents operating here, and if two intelligent, articulate individuals are genuinely puzzled as to what they are, then it may take an objective third party to dig them out. The fact that you pinpoint the beginning of this as the time of your latest move suggests this as a clue for further investigation.

I seem to remember that the moves were made for his sake -- because he is a student? Anyway, if you'll forgive a little projecting of myself here, I'd resent the HECK out of him. I really, really, REALLY hate moving. I don't know how portable your career is, but I would at least hate having left friends/family behind (email and phone calls aren't the same as being there), hate having to give up favourite activities and find new things in a different city, hate the feeling of impermanence while living in temporary digs -- I'd resent the whole works. I know you once mentioned "living like a grad student again" -- I'd hate that, too! The difference with me is that I would have vocalized that (loudly, frequently, and unmistakably!) which would at least have allowed us to natter about it, and would have cleared the air. Sometimes I think that sensitive, intelligent people impose far too many "shoulds" on our own behaviour in relationships....... it's okay to feel negative emotions!

An alternative possibility is that, even though you may just love the nomadic lifestyle, your b/f may be carrying around a whole load of silent guilt for having imposed this on you. Especially since some tension seems to have emerged around the latest move -- he may think this was just the tip of the iceberg, and is waiting with dread for the rest to surface.

Anything can be worked through and overcome once it's out in the open; difficulties are only threats to a relationship when they're allowed to fester away unacknowledged.

Can't add much to this other than...do go to counseling. You'll get asked the questions that you need to have asked and you'll find within yourselves the answers that need to come out. I wish my parents had done that when they started feeling this way but they didn't...and grew apart. I wish you the best and send you a huge hug!

Desert Spring.....not to sound redundant.....but absolutely get couple's counseling, as soon as you can. That "distance" feeling begins to breed doubt, which snowballs into wanting to drop and run in some cases, when REALLY there's just a communication glitch or a relationship season you have to weather together.
I am convinced that if my ym and I had gone to counseling when I frist brought it up (and he was open to it), instead of putting if off....we'd be together today.
Don't wait.
Warm thoughts and support to you both,
Karen

Hey girl,

The wife and I had a bout sort of like this. We just kind of drifted apart. We took a vacation. Just the two of us. No phones, no kids, no friends ,,,,just us. No computer(We did have tv,).
This gave us a chance to really talk to each other. It really helped us. You might also consider moving somewhere so it is just the two of you. Start all over.
I hope it works out for you .

Cowboy

Hi Desert,

I was saddened to read about your problem. I hope that you two continue to work through it; I don't have a clue what to say. You've always been the one that I look forward to reading. When I see your name on a post, I look to it with certainty of reading sound information.

Now you are in trouble.

Can you and he go on a vacation? Can you take a three day weekend and go somewhere? Pull out the stops, pay up the ying yang, whatever it takes. Whatever works for the both of you in terms of easy getaways. Just do it. And be honest. Let's fall in love again.

I've been with Greg almost three years. We have separate homes but spend huge amounts of time together. We've been on this stalemate for almost a year trying to sell our homes, keep our homes, keep one home , which home?, buy a new home, where?? He thinks I'm a ***** mother.

Sometimes I hate him. I remember when I loved his sweat, I love every inch of his body. Now sometimes I look at him and think what the hell am I doing with this lug? He's not what I ever imagined I'd end up with. It's whatever Bella said. Later it passes. I love him.

We do go to counseling. We go to family counseling and then Greg and I go to couples counseling too. Sometimes I hate the lot of them; his therapist, our couples and family therapist. And Greg.

There are times though of disattachment (is that a word?). There are times when it just isn't there but I imagine that every couple in the world has those times. You ride it through.

Keep talking.

Cindy

Hey thanks guys - I never expected so many responses in just twelve hours. The support feels good and is much appreciated :>

After our latest "talk", we've been being nice to each other today and there's no doubt that we both want to hang in - so I'm happy about that.

I have a counselor that I saw as a part of my grief process when my husband died, and she knows me pretty well for a long time, so I'm going to go see her individually to try to figure out what's going on with me - and us. She isn't a couples counselor, but certainly can refer me to one - and that is a definite possibility for us.

For people newer to the board, I know I didn't go into alot of details, but I'm sensitive to boring the old timers silly - LOL - and after 4+ years, it is a bit of a long story. But I'll try to address some details as we go along ....

A couple individual responses:

Captain: I know. And it's a slippery slope that I don't want to go down. All I can say is that trust and vulnerability were at a pretty good level for a long time, and I am as surprised as I can be to find us not able to get there all of a sudden. It is a new, not a longstanding problem. And yeah, we've hugged and cried. Whether that makes anything presto all better is really the question.

Sailaway: That's sort've what we've tried to do so far. And yeah, maybe it will just fade away. Three months out of 4 1/2 years is not really such a long time. And we may be overreacting. I just don't know. As I said though, if this how it's going to be indefinitely, than I'm not sure that it works for either of us.

Softsong : OK. I suspect we're both protecting some feelings we don't want to admit too: probably out of guilt and a feeling that they aren't as high-minded as we'd like them to be. Which I agree is probably making it hard to hear each other on a deep level. I will do that.

Maria : Yep. I agree. I'm too close to the situation and to our routine to be quite clear on what's breaking down. It's funny - one of the things I really valued about this relationship is how comfortable it was, how easily we seemed to mesh our lives and how tolerant of each other we were. I suspect some of those traits are now making it hard to break out of a bad pattern now that we've set one up ...

But no, I don't want to give up prematurely and I'm not going too ...

Sage: Thanks for your thoughts. I'm not opposed to endless happiness (what can I say - I guess I like rubber rooms),
but I hear what you're saying. Yes, we're dislocated from the move(s), but I never expected we'd take it out on each other - as we seem to be doing - albeit in a pleasantly passive-aggressive way.

Trish: Again, thanks for your thoughts and wishes. It does help.

Savannah: It's been about 3 months since the last move, and yes we're clear that this all pretty much started around that move, so it's around 3 1/2 months. Not that long in the context of 4 1/2 years together, but longer than an isolated bad mood. Yes, it's because he's pursuing a Ph.D.

We definitely had some soul-searching to do before the initial move to Chicago as we both had pretty much concluded the relationship would last until he went off to school and were surprised that we both wanted to take this step. Given all that discussion and preparation and honesty, I suspect we both feel less entitled to whine about it then perhaps we should. I am reasonably OK with change and nomadism and I can, eventually, find work more or less in my field anywhere, but heck living it is sometimes a bit harder than talking about it. And it all costs money and some of my furniture got smashed in the move back and yada, yada. There definitely are things to complain about. But I did volunteer for it, after all. And I KNOW he does feel guilty sometimes and no, I don't want to rub his nose in it constantly. But it seems I am, nevertheless, so maybe openly is better than closeted. I wish we could move on, sometimes ... but here is where we seem to be ..sigh....

One-Tiger: a big hug right back at you

Special K: Thanks for the warm thoughts and I will try to benefit from your experience!

Cowboy: We do live together. Just the two of us and a pair of cats in a 2 bedroom cottage....... A trip together isn't immediately in the cards, but maybe we can work it out sometime in the future. It sounds good.

Cindy: I was happy to see you on my thread :>

Life with the lug. LOL. You know, I suspect I'm afraid that he's seeing me as his lug right now. And maybe I am. All this history and all this damn furniture to be schlepped around LOL.

I really did think it would pass. Honestly.
I was sure we'd just meander back to the wonderful thing that we were. But
it seems like we may need a little help to get ourselves unstuck.

Thank you for the advice and support, all of you, from the bottom of my heart.
I listened to every word of it.

Good night !

DS - Just wanted to send you lotsa hugs!! I dont have any good advice to give you, because I hate to admit it, but I'm one of the ones that when things dont go right for a length of time, I give up. Well, thats not exactly true either lol. I stuck out a horrible marriage for 19 years:( . So I guess what I mean is that "now" (after the divorce) when things dont go right, I tend to give up. I think I'm afraid of getting stuck in a bad relationship again, but nothing could compare to what I've already been through. What I'm getting at, is that I'm very appreciative of all the good advice (as another reader). Besides giving DS tons of good advice, you've helped me realize that sometimes you just have to ride things out, like a storm. That some relationships ARE worth waiting it out - the ones when basically everything is good, just some little things are out of kilter. And here I've had everything backwards!! I stayed in the crappy relationship, and and quick to give up the good ones!! So DS, listen to these people, sounds like they know what they're talking about. And again - I hope everything works out for you and your sweetie:)

Southerngal

DS, I'm not a great advice giver but it looks to me as you've had some good advice from some members already. You've been here for me through this past year 100% and have been supportive of my choice to give Justin time. I wanted to just send you a big {{{HUG}}} and let you know I'm here for you and I hope you and your YM get through this bump as Bella calls it.

Brenda

DS, I've always thought of you as nothing less than a treasure, and our relationships are similar in the age-gap sense, so I think I can add some insight (hopefully).

Robin and I recently went through something really similar. At one point, I was thinking, "Do I really want to be with this asshole???" The hard part was, I was already so infused with his family (just in the last six months I have become even closer to them) and my family was even more enthused with him, so I was faced with the possible criticism from them..."What did you do to f*** this up???" My kids, who for the most part were thrilled with him, were entering into more "grown up" stages of life, and not appreciating his interference and being the designated "narc". The biggest thing was, we weren't CONNECTING like we once did. It seemed like when he wanted to go out, I was too tired, and when I wanted to go out, he was into watching something really stupid on t.v.

At one point, he asked me, "Wouldn't you rather be with the "Jeff Corbin" guy on t.v., or someone like that, who LOVES animals and children and has such an upbeat personality???" DS, I honestly couldn't say "no".

But then I thought about it, and I saw how hard Robin works, and how he loves our animals, and how he does stuff to the house, and how he does stuff for the kids, and how even when I'm awful-looking, he still has that adoring look on his face, and how we still laugh at the same t.v. shows, at the same place, and how we still hold hands while we're watching, and how when he's sick I "mother" him, and when I'm sick, he "mothers" me. We could have been screaming at eachother the day before, but the next day, if one of us needs something, the other is there to fulfill it.

I think you and your bf are the same way. I think you've lost your way and you need to find your way back to eachother. It's not far. Let go of the resentment. You've gone through more than most people would. That's a fact. But you made that choice. Go from NOW!

Make first contact. Give him an unsolicited backrub. Gently. Do it while watching t.v. or something, just totally spontaneous and unassuming. Kiss his ear. Collapse on him after awhile, and just breathe in his essence...his scent, his heartbeat, his warmth. Absorb it. Exhale back gently into his ear. Genuinely. He'll feel the relaxation, the openness, and warm up. If sex is in order, don't choose to talk just then. Wait until later...much later...hours later.

You might not even need to talk. You might just find yourselves reconnected. But if not, then when you do talk, do it quietly, rationally, and without blame. Share your feelings, ask for his, but if he isn't ready, then just state what you need. Men are better at dealing with facts than wishy-washy "guess what I'm feeling/needing" statements.

Robin is a "retreat into the cave" type of person, whereas I'm a "let's talk until we drop" type. When I can't stand it anymore, I say, "Well, it's either X or Z for me, and then I'm outta here!" He processes that, and produces either X or Z. When he has a problem, sometimes I have to "fish" it out of him, but then I listen patiently while he rants and *****es at me. When he's done, I say, "Well, you had some good points, and you were right about some stuff. I'll try to do better. I WILL do better. You deserve that." :)

Thanks guys for all the support. I haven't called on this board much for advice in a long time and you guys really came through!

We've had a mellow couple of days - not talking ourselves to death, but just quietly trying to "be". So far, so good, but I expect there is a bit more to go to get back to where we were. I am going to see a counselor next week and he's open to couples counseling if that's what I decide I want us to do. We are going to try to get
away for a few days over Thanksgiving weekend, and I guess we'll just see what happens from here. I still love him and he says he loves me, so I have to be optimistic.

Wish us luck!

...and I came across your post, Desert Spring.

I have been wondering how you've been doing this past year as you have always been such an inspiration to me and literally pulled me through some hard times. I recently sold my house and moved to another city with my YH, so he could go to grad school. Six months later, turns out he doesn't like it. So we're moving back. Like you, I made the decision all along, so I haven't given myself permission to be upset. In truth, I'm not all that upset, but I would understand how someone would feel a little out of sorts about it. Now we have to sell our new house, take a loss on that, etc. and go through the hassle of moving for a third time in a one year period.

We have been through at least three slumps since we got married a little over a year ago. In at least two cases it was caused by him not dealing with his feelings directly and deciding to "man up" when he really felt a lot of resentment about his situation. Fortunately, I was able to encourage him to talk about things. In both instances, the "talk" came around to splitting up and we had to go through all the angst of contemplating that. But I maintained my "dignity" and told him to do whatever he felt he needed to do. In both instances, he came around and had some kind of chnage of heart (more like a change of attitude) and just decided to be happy. It seemed to work on both counts.

The third time was right after our move. I felt like he didn't love me anymore and there was that disconnect you mentioned. I had it in my mind to have a long talk about it with him and tell him my feelings, but after talking with my mom on the way home to see him, she said to just relax and try to enjoy each other and not to add any more stress to the situation, as it was already stressful enough. So I took that advice and really tried to have fun whenever I was with him and to be affectionate and fun and in general tried to ignore the "weirdness". After a little while, when the circumstances were right, I got him to once agin talk about how he was feeling about things in a very supportive and non-judgmental way. I just listened and then I gave him a lot of reasons why the relationship was a really good thing. I guess he took that to heart and crisis number 3 passed.

Now, we are really happier than ever. He has a great attitude and I am loving and tolerant. We support each other and are affcetionate and understanding with each other. I'm sure much like you two usually are.

Here is what I have learned from all of this. Now, of course, I was armed with a lot of wisdom and experience going in (and thanks to Mom, you and the rest of the AL board, lots of good advice).

1. The secret to making love stay is letting it come and go.
2. Sometimes you need to talk and sometimes talking is not what you need. You have to be able to distinguish when more talking will just make things worse. While talking has its place, so does making your time together as pleasant and as enjoyable as possible. If it gets too heavy, laugh and lighten up.
3. Relationships with youngsters (mine is 24) are a bit of a roller coaster. If you expect that to be the case, then you can just hang on for the ride and try not to get flipped out when they do a 180. Just be patient, understanding and let them work it out. Give them as much space as they need to do that, even if it seems like what they want is to leave. If you make that "ok" then, it takes away the need for it (to leave, I mean). Continue to be supportive and loving.
4. Acknowledge your own feelings and try to understand yourself and work them out without him around. (I think what you said about going to your personal counselor is a good idea. I would do that and leave BF out of it. In fact, I just don't know about the counselor...it might make the problem seem bigger than it is and, knowing you, you are fully capable of drawing him out and having the kind of discussions you need to have with him without assistance. My advice: I would try to lighten things up and have fun and just don't bring up the counselor or even the fact that you have "problems". Instead, enjoy each other while looking for opportunities to draw him out and get him to talk about his feelings. Confront any resistant behavior. "You've been really short with me today, is something bothering you?" )
5. Don't crowd him , give him lots of alone time if you think he might need that. Then when you are with him, make the time together really good.
6. Taking a trip together made us feel a lot closer.


This is what worked for me. We have only been together two years so I'm sure there will be more bumpy road. You are much further along, so this might be more than just the living together adjustments that we have had. I feel sure all the moving stress is directly related, though, because I think that is what our last crisis was about. I think my mom's advice was best, which was to do nothing and try to enjoy each other because "you have enough to deal with right now".

Anyway, I had to post because, well, because it's YOU! I am really pulling for you and look forward to hearing how things work out.

All the best,

Rain