Stolen from the OW side.....

I found a thread on the OW side titled "Rough Patches" or something like that, and I thought it would be interesting to bring up those questions here and see how responses differ (or, if they differ). I think 99% of couples go through periods in which they can't stand each other, they wonder how they ended up with this person, if they've made a huge mistake, etc. This member was talking about a period in which communication has become really hard because of various factors in their lives, and that she and her YM just sit around uncomfortably and don't know how to fix it.

I am wondering- I know the majority of people over here are in relatively new relationships, so maybe you can't help. But for us, it's been a year and three months, and some days the gloss wears pretty damn thin. Falling back to earth, or reality, after the first throes of passion are wearing off, has happened with a thud. Suddenly the coccoon has broken, and other things have exploded like fireworks. Kids! Parents! School! Money! Priorities! Life goals! KA-BOOM! I'm in a daze, like WTF just happened for the last year.....I often ask myself if I'm lying to myself, if I'm trying to get into a relationship I'm not ready for, or even if those two things aren't true, if we're really compatible for the long run. It's exhausting trying to know if it's "right", because the happy glow-glow feeling just isn't as automatic as it used to be. It's still there, but some days we're pissing each other off, we're pissing and whining and just being rude to each other, and other days it's Return to Cloud 9. I just don't feel like I'm carrying a golden shield anymore, and the analytical part of me is really demanding clear and logical answers about this thing called "love". When do you just take a breather and talk tomorrow, versus saying this just ain't gonna work? It's not like I've suddenly discovered he's a horrible person and I can't stand him. I do love him. But how does one know when what they're sticking around for is called "commitment" and when it should be called "damn, that horse already looks dead"? Is this totally up to personal interpretation? Because I've thought this a million times about my parents' marriage, yet not every day is bad. They're not going anywhere. When you don't have alimony and child support hanging over you, or any shared property, or pretty much anything to sit your *** back down when you have a bad day, how do you know you're not SETTLING?

I think too much, it is true. But I worry about losin' that lovin' feeling. I don't want to end up like my parents, nor do I want to end up a multiple divorcee. What is the dividing line between things you tolerate in the name of a long-term relationship, and things that you're being a dumbass to let slide?

What is the dividing line between things you tolerate in the name of a long-term relationship, and things that you're being a dumbass to let slide?

Ahhh, the 64,000 dollar question.

Since you missed the photo of me - and I'm not obliged to post it again anytime soon, I might as well respond to this thread to make it up, at least in some part.

To the question.

Everyone's different.

What do you value?

For instance, if someone values BEING IN a relationship above all else, they will put up with everything and anything. The need to be in one overrides all other values.

I was in a 10 year relationship with someone when I was quite young - from 20 to 30 - and I wanted to split from that person after just a month or two because there was some nagging things about her character that I just didn't like. But I had about ZERO experience to draw on and didn't know if it was being unreasonable or not.

We actually got on really well - we never argued, we travelled around the world together, we enjoyed each other's company - yet at the end of that ten years the exact same thing that had bothered me right at the beginning came home to roost.

After splitting, and even after being (seemingly) quite compatible, I now think, WHAT THE HELL WAS I DOING WITH HER ALL THAT TIME!!!???

The fundamental things I value now - a real feminine sensitivity, emotional depth, kindness and selflessness - none of that was there. We were just like two good mates - only now I see how shut down she was emotionally, none of that was explored - and mine was on hold - I didn't even realise the qualities that I possessed that really flowered AFTER we split.

I felt like splitting from her many times but never went through with it. Experience now would have me not hooking up with a person like that after just a few dates.

I remember after being together for 4 years we were in Paris and I thought, " I am just not going to be with this person long term - I've GOT TO break up" and then I thought "What a lousy thing to do to someone in Paris" - and we were together for another 6 years!!!

Nowadays I KNOW what I value and I don't stand for anything less and I'd make the hard decision in an INSTANT. That's why I prefer not to get into countless relationships. I just know myself too well these days and I'm so happy and content single.

Some words of advice I'd give to anyone young (or any age) in a relationship is WORK AT IT!

I'm serious. You need to CONSCIOUSLY WORK AT IT!

I mean it.

We didn't, but our natural base compatability allowed us to remain together on auto-pilot for ten years.

There's also a BIG TRAP and it's THIS...

When you're young, there's some sort of endearing, silly thing about sort of taking digs or pot-shots at each other, a sort of flirty put-down thing - cracking jokes at each other's expense "Look at you, stupid" sort of thing, "Gosh you're an idiot" (giggling) sort of thing. DANGER

DANGER.

DANGER.

These sorts of things are absolute POISON over the long term. They build and build. And soon, what is a JOKE and what is REALITY? The reality is that you're calling someone an idiot or putting them down every day. What started as a flirty joke becomes a nightmare. Because after awhile, what's a joke and what's real? If you saw the transcripts of someone who really MEANS IT versus the transcripts of someone who's "just joking" - guess what? The transcripts LOOK THE SAME.

After ten years together, respect gets eroded, when you look under the house you discover that the foundations are completely rotted away like a cancer that has been eating away at it bit by bit, minute by minute, day by day.

For instance, NOW, if I was in a relationship, I would make a conscious effort not to be negative about my partner, (even in jest) EVER. If I could. I think it has to be a sort of sacred respect thing - once again, very tough work but necessary (for me, anyway).

Poke fun at each other at your PERIL.

That's what I mean by WORKING at it. If you don't believe it - fine - we'll see you in ten years.

For you I'd reiterate - uncover what you really VALUE - make sure you WORK at the relationship and don't shy away from the HARD decisions.

But most of all, everyone's different - and don't worry at all about standing up for what's right for... you!


:)

What is the dividing line between things you tolerate in the name of a long-term relationship, and things that you're being a dumbass to let slide?

I wish I knew. Sometimes the shine of love comes off and I wonder just what's holding us together. My OM and I have a million differences and only a handful of similarities. Sometimes little things drive me nuts. I wonder if I can ever really live with this or that quirk of behavior, and then I turn around and wonder why I'm flipping out over something so small. Sometimes I cry myself to sleep wishing for a hug. I wonder if anyone's really worth being so far away and beyond touch, however much I love them. He goes through some of the same things.

Sometimes I wonder whether I stay with him because I don't want to be alone.

And then some days it's perfect and wonderful and I'm grinning madly into the phone or the screen for hours. Some days it seems like I can read his mind and he can read mine. Some days everything just seems to click.

I don't think any relationship can be continually in a state of perfect romance. Things do lose some intensity as time goes on (and hopefully gain some depth?). But what balance of bad times to good is unacceptable? No easy answer from here, I'm afraid.

Poke fun at each other at your PERIL.

Sorry, Spunk, I'm going to have to disagree with this. My parents have been poking fun (fairly harshly) at each other all their lives, and they're coming up on a very happy 25th in a few months. For that matter, my parents tease me constantly, and visa versa, but I've never for one day doubted their love. Everyone has a different sense of humor; I can't imagine trying to be in a relationship with someone who couldn't handle this sort of joking. Or in a friendship. Or living with -myself-, if I couldn't handle all the comments of this sort that I direct inward every day.

Whew....after that ramblin' Rose outburst above, Waiting sums up everything I was wondering if other people go through. Obviously I assumed that they would, but I was ultimately looking for reassurance that not loving every single thing about someone doesn't mean YOU ARE AN IDIOT and YOU SHOULD BREAK UP.

Too bad now my OM read it, took it a little extreme....ah well. The stress of recent events puts a damper on romance anyway. It's not because we've necessarily changed.

Dat I have been with my husband for a year and a half... two years in feburary....... I went through some of that..... I always wanted to be with him that was never the problem!! Although I did have a lot of doubts in between.. Yes the sparks that fly do end a little and reality sets in.. but I still get butterflies in my tummy for him and I miss him when I'm not around.... Although You will know if its just typical doubts... or it's just your falling out of love....

That Book Men are from Mars and Women are from venus talks about the "doubting" stage of a relationship... and it's true.. it also helps you deal with both sides... I do suggest anyone to read that because it is a great book!!!!

I've known my husband for over 7 years now and I can honestly say the "shine" has never worn off. The only difficulties we have had are those caused by circumstances and factors around us (i.e. family, ex-spouse, distance, etc.) Our core relationship has always been strong. I have not compromised any of my values or desires to be with him and I have never ever thought "Gee, if only he would" or "I wish he didn't....." I wouldn't change a thing about him, because I love him just the way he is. Our relationship is built on a foundation of mutual love and respect for each other.

My husband and I have been together for 2 1/2 years now. I think that everyone has some doubts. I certainly went through a period of wondering whether the whole thing was a good idea because of the age difference, but once I made the decision for myself, there was never another moment of doubt.

We never went through the butterfly, bling bling, ecstatic stage in our relationship. We just became happier and happier as we went along, so I don't really have that to "miss" -- instead I just have more and more love to look forward to.

There are unromantic moments, of course, lots of them actually. But there is a sense of bond and respect and very, very deep love that underlies everything - even the most mundane moments. (Like when he is plunging the toilet right now....) ;-) Because then there are moments like yesterday evening when he came up to me as I was sitting at the computer and squeezed me and said "I love you" for no apparent reason - it just struck him. :-)

Only you can answer your question, although I would also remember that there is no hurry -- there is never anything that says you HAVE to make a life-long decision right now. So, I would think about the doubts you have, and about the good things in the relationship. Ruminate on them awhile and then see how you feel. No matter what else happens, you will know yourself better and understand what you do and do not want in a relationship.

Good Luck!!

Waiting - your comment...

I can't imagine trying to be in a relationship with someone who couldn't handle this sort of joking.

What sort of joking?

What sort of joking... exactly?

Let's say you are late for an important dinner with friends. Fundamentally it's your fault, however there was a good enough reason. Just as you were blow-drying your hair you accidentally tipped something over your dress - that meant you had to change it, blah blah blah. Crucial time lost.

Your husband, or boyfriend has constantly chided you on spending too long in the bathroom - it's a constant joke of his - and he's now pretty pissed off that he and you are running late - but anyway, when you arrive at that dinner (and it's an IMPORTANT dinner), he decides to smooth the tension by making a joke to the others, fundamentally at YOUR expense - "Y'know, it's just Jane in the bathroom again. I can NEVER prise her out of that bathroom."

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Everyone laughs. Some more remarks from the men follow about women and bathrooms.

Oh ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. The whole room erupts with further comments directed towards you. And your husband is over there, slapping someone on the back, sitting down - and you're still standing there.

But, of course, you don't have a problem with this at all.

I can't imagine trying to be in a relationship with someone who couldn't handle this sort of joking.

I totally agree with you, Spunk. My Ex would let his friends make little jokes about how young I look for my age and not say a word to defend me, because he thought their jokes were funny. I sure didn't. It's the same thing with what you're talking about. I think being supportive and kind to the people you care about is so much more important than trying to be funny.

I think it is just a fundamental respect for the other person. My husband laughs with me about things I do sometimes (I tend to trip over cracks in the sidewalk a lot :-) -- but he would never use this as something to talk with his friends about, and I usually laugh before he does. He has never, ever had anything but the utmost respect for my feelings.

Yes, MadBess and Pink - respect is the key.

I'm one of the biggest jokers around but as long as I remember to - (as MadBess said about her partner) - "He has never, ever had anything but the utmost respect for my feelings." - do THAT.

That is such a fine line to traverse.

I cannot stress how fine a line that is - between having total empathy and respect for someone's feelings, sharing lots and lots of healthy humor together and ABOUT one another - and crossing that line into an area where respect becomes eroded micron by micron.

It's such a fine line, it's like a strand of the finest hair.

Ok now we have the joking/respect thread. I can see both sides of this thing, because I've grown up in a family of "jokesters" so I know both how it can be funny and how it can hurt. But I've never thought making a joke to others at my expense was cool.....UNLESS I'm the one making it. We had a pretty big fight about this, in fact I remember the exact date (maybe because it was his birthday?) because he made some off-handed joke about me to his uncle on the phone about something I found too personal to joke about to someone I hardly knew. I was absolutely furious. We ended up getting in a huge fight, not going out anywhere at all even though he had taken the night off for the birthday, and not making up until I had been crying so long that I had the hiccups. It was a respect thing. After he was able to put aside the feeling like I was "blaming" him, he understood why I was pissed, but he still thought I was more sensitive than he realized. I felt like a wuss, he felt like an asshole, and it ruined the whole night. So yeah, it's a real fine line. It's a matter of personal taste, and since there's no accounting for taste, the only thing to do is find someone who is either similar to you or can handle your razor-sharp barbs.

Continuing the thread-within-a-thread. . .

Spunk, I can say that the scenario you outline wouldn't bother me -- that's a level of joking I consider fun. Of course, everyone has a different comfort level, and as Datura says the important thing is to be with someone who thinks about it the same way you do.

Where I do definitely agree with you is that respect is the key. To me, respect in this matter isn't avoiding joking entirely, or even trying to guess what's good and bad -- it's being willing to listen when your partner -is- bothered by a joke or subject, and says so. I don't want my partner to be able to mindread what I am and am not comfortable with; I just want them to remember when I've pointed out a particular area as a touchy one. And (needless to say) visa versa. Both my OM and I have pretty thick skin (him even more than I), but we've both reached points where enough is enough from time to time. We deal with them as they come.

And back to the main topic of the thread. . .

I don't know if this helps or not, Datura, but it did occur to me the other day that everything I said about my relationship with my OM could apply equally to any other major life decision I make. I have the same doubts and indecisions about my major/career path. Most of the time I love it, but some days I seem totally unsuited to it and start to wonder if I wouldn't be better off hearding llamas in the Andes or something. It's not just a matter of relationships being prone to doubts. Making choices that will affect the rest of my life, be they my choice of life partner or anything else, can be scary. That doesn't keep them from being really good choices.

Waiting, I think both halves of your last post are very well put...

:)