JavaJunkie2002's update on his date

For those that are interested (MariaLux, bubbleee, joannalee, and others), here's an update of me and 'BB'.

We went out to a local coffee shop for a quick coffee this afternoon. We talked books and such. No 'appropriate' moment came for a quick kiss, so I had to wait.

On the way back I decided to ask her if she wanted to continue to see me. I told her I enjoyed spending time with her the past two times (she reciprocated the statement) and I told her I thought she was a lot of fun. She told me that she was "an old, tired woman".

I told her she wasn't THAT old and she told me she was old enough to be my mom. "I don't care" was my response.

I mentioned that it was really unfortunate that I was leaving the state for work (see my other thread) but she told me I'd meet lots of fun people.

As I dropped her off, I asked her for a kiss (desperately hoping she'd say yes). She said yes, but a small one. We bid each other farewell and I was happy.

Now, as I've said before, I'm pretty clueless. But, I think I'm in good shape. What do ya'll think?

Also, the age difference doesn't bother me. What can I say/do to reassure her?

Inquiring minds want to know.

JavaJunkie2k2

I think she likes you!!! She definitely likes you!

Just keep letting things grow...how far are you going to be when you move?

I felt that the coffee shop outing was a big deal - it is my normal hangout and I am good friends with the staff.

As to where I'm going, I'm moving to Missouri. I'll be moving sometime in Jan. It's something like 720 miles or so from here. While I am there I do get a trip back home every 4 weeks. My plan is to tell her next time I see her that I want to continue seeing her when I come back every 4 weeks.

I'm out of town again this week, so I'll have to tell her when I return.

Lost_Spoiled: I'll keep working on her! Don't forget to read my other thread. I'd be interested in hearing what you think.

MariaLux: She likes me! I feel like Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer after Clarise told him she thought was cute! :D

That's all I got.

Stuck, sick in a hotel in SC...
JJ2k2

I would say that she likes you.
But I also think she is quite wary of an age gap relationship, (but curious at the same time).
Her caution in taking things slow is wise.

Be careful in taking her to too many places that you haunt as a "regular" - she might feel invisible being surrounded by a lot of people that know you, (this might also make her more self-conscience of the age difference).
I suggest the two of you discover your own little places too.
You might see her become more relaxed in an environment that is new to both of you.

Going out of state for a bit?
Buy her a little gift to present to her upon your return.
Nothing too grand, but something sweet and thoughtful that you know she likes.
This will let her know that she was "on your mind" when you were away from her and every woman appreciates that!

I would say you are on your way to a fine relationship.
Relax and enjoy!

OK, I won't go on about asking her for a kiss. You mde your choice, it happened, if you are not sunk yet and she sees you again, go for it on the next date.

As far as the coffee shop, WHERE YOU KNOW EVERYONE, I think that's a mistake for a second date. Get at least three dates under your belt before you start showing her off to your friends or family. If you date her for her and nothing else, then being together should be enough at first. After a while, she will want to know and feel she is not being stuck in the closet. So friends and family need to be introduced, but it can take months before you need to get to that point.

However, what is done is done. Play the hand you have now.

In the future remember the best places you can take her are where you will have fun together or where you have her, and she your, undivided attention. This is why dinner works so well as a first date. and if the conversation fails, you shouldn't have a second date.

I think she likes you too, but have thought so for a while. Maybe she is starting to think in terms of a relationship versus someone to flirt with as she did before. Accordingly, the age gap issue came up. Your comments on her age, the age gap were fine. The ladies here can comment better than I can as to how to address that issue.

As to how to address the distance, just let her know that you to continue seeing her, or if you get a chance to make a move or two that you WANT her. Do act or try to act on it right away, just deliver the message. After delivering it, deliver the message that you are not in any rush to get anything from her, i.e. sex, and she will think that you are interested in her and not just for sex.

You've got multple hurdles: age, distance, etc. Playing like you have confidence that you will get her and for good will do more for you actually getting her than anything else. If you want her in that way, there is nothing better you can do than to kiss her, kiss her well and kiss her like you mean it and then say "Goodnight" and leave.

When you are away, send her something jsut because you were thinking of her. Don't wait until you come home. Make sure it is something very small. Try to make it untraditional. Say instead of flowers, try a plant with a message about giving things time to grow.

Finally, don't play her just to play her. She will probably know somehow and you will probably lose your chance with her and anyone else in your neighborhood or who she might tell. A reputation as a player will take you a long time to live down, in which case you should move to Missouri and stay there.

I have said things like what BB said, myself. I think I have said them and it was to bf, just to let him know, that I know. I can't explain it really. But if I wasn't interested I wouldn't bother saying it, I know that.

Good luck! You must really like her with some of the obstacles you have encountered. Lucky lady!

Hey Java,

Thanks for the update.

I'd keep it very friendly and unserious for now and when I move for a year.

The BEST age gap relationships are built on friendships. It's how you overcome the gap...by finding out what you have in common, regardless of age. To move on to a romantic relationship, you have to give her time for the idea to grow in her head and her heart. She seems a little distracted from what you describe.

I'd tell BB before I went away for the year, that I think she's a fabulous woman, and I'd like to stay in touch with her by email now and then and reconnect with her when I visit back home if she didn't mind. And I'd send her a mail or a funny e-card or whatever, just before I came back into town to let her know that i'm going to be around. A man that can make a woman laugh is worth his weight in gold!

Have fun with her if you can, the rest will probably follow!

Sage & Captain: I hear what you are saying about taking her to my regular haunts, but it was her idea. Fortunately, we were left alone to enjoy each other's company.

Captain: I didn't think things turned out so bad when I asked for the kiss...did I miss something?

I gotta run...I'll add more later.

Thanks for the advice all.

JJ2k2

Originally posted by JavaJunkie2002
Sage & Captain: I hear what you are saying about taking her to my regular haunts, but it was her idea. Fortunately, we were left alone to enjoy each other's company.

Captain: I didn't think things turned out so bad when I asked for the kiss...did I miss something?



So long as you were undisturbed you probably were fine, regardless of whose idea it was. My keys for the first few dates are to have fun and talk to her, letting me and her find out who each other are and what we are about. You want her to have your and you to have her undivided attention. Either being disturbed, talking to anohter or having your eyes wander is a big NO-NO. One of you should be looking at the other for most of the night, with a significant amount of eye contact. Can it be uncomfortable talking for a length of time on a date? Yes, but if you can't do it, then you are probably not out with the right person.

For your next date, think of something fun to do. If not go back and have dinner. Dinner is never a bad choice, unless it's the only choice.

Whether you missed something or not isn't important. She granted you permission once, if she is out with you ever again assume that the permission is still granted. If it was withdrawn, then she would not be out with you.

She is having issues about the age gap, one of which is likely to be "are you really attracted to her physically", i.e. DO YOU WANT HER BODY. A good kiss, taken, but taken slowly, is the ideal way of conveying that message.

Captain: I'm not a player and I'm definitely not trying to play her. Also, the idea about the plant and a note about giving things time to grow was great. I think I'll do that but I just need to find the right words first. When you said about not waiting until I come home, are you talking about my trip this week or my eventual move to MO?

Do I want her body? Is the pope Catholic? She is amazing! I'm attracted to her mind and body.

bubbleee: I have no problem making her laugh.

obsessing: I hear ya. How did he react to what you said?

I didn't call her today, but I plan to tomorrow. I'll try and think of a suitable activity for a next date. Unfortunately, I live in a small town and options are limited sometimes.

I do really appreciate everyone's comments and advice.

That's all I got for now.

JJ2k2 (just for Lost_Spoiled)

Here's a letter I wrote in October '97. It's from an "old tired woman" who thought she didn't stand a chance.
_________________________________________________

If I were to die tonight I would want you to know certain things. My vanilla candle is lit. I've had one cup of tea, one cup of milk and now, one glass of red wine. Can't sleep - can't talk to you. It's 11.45 pm. I would want you to know how old my heart is, how old my mind and soul are. I would want you to know that after I had read some of my book, and thought I was sleepy, I turned out my light. In the dark I pretended my heart, and mind and soul weren't so old after all. Maybe because of certain books we'd looked at earlier, I allowed myself to imagine I could actually feel something after all these years. And so, I began to run my hands over my body and, at the same time, think of them as your hands. I tried to decide what you would feel. Both literally and figuratively. Would he like that part? Or, that part feels a bit rough to the touch - and that part so angular, and another so flabby. I am completely intimidated by your body and all it's collective parts. I would want you to know that I've loved you - (in the biblical sense) - a hundred and nineteen times in my head. But never in my heart because that is altogether a much too frightening prospect. I would want you to know that (words here borrowed from a song) "I'm so afraid to love you - more afraid to lose." I know you probably can not abide all this truth telling and feeling stuff. I would want you to know that I thank you for wanting me, for wanting to "jump all over me", for telling me I'm attractive and intelligent, and for being so honest about it to the point where I feel dishonest and mean and frigid. I would want you to know that.
______________________________________
Gillian

Gillian, that's so moving and so sad. I hope you will never feel like writing that again, my friend. No woman deserves to feel like that, no human being does.

And Java, whatever you do, maybe you should consider the possibility that she's afraid of you, afraid of falling in love with you. You are younger and you are leaving, maybe that's still too much for her.

Good luck, you special guy. :)

That letter you wrote is beautiful and unbelievably sad to me. What is going on for you since then?

The letter is so honest. Thank you for sharing it. I still can't see the upside of getting older. I know a lot of people go on about all the acquired knowledge and stuff. But I personally don't like it. I hope I grow into it sometime, and at the same time I don't want to. Maybe this is why I want to be a ym, who in some ways makes me feel older. The contrast I guess.


JJ - this is probably very close to what your ow feels. It should give you a lot of insight into her apprehensions.

(ps. I even hate when I see "ow" meaning me. Couldn't we have a different term to describe us?)

Originally posted by obsessing
(ps. I even hate when I see "ow" meaning me. Couldn't we have a different term to describe us?)

I TOTALLY know what you mean!! I'm only 30, and I'm already an OW. I know it stands for Older Woman, but sometimes it feels like OLD Woman, which is kind of... unsettling. I really don't think 30 is old... I don't think anyone thinks that! But still.

Thanks for appreciating my letter. I didn't expect quite such an emotional response to it. (Don't get me mixed up with Gilraen though - that's what my SF did, so she was sending all her clues to the wrong person!).

I never thought my letter was sad. Mmmm. Strange how different people see different things. I was more terrified than sad at the time. Only a ten year age gap between us, but I'd never experienced anything like that before. I remember when I first joined this sight, and told people I was in an age-gap relationship and he was ten years younger than me. A giant chorus of "that's not an age-gap" went up!

He was the first "realtionship" I'd had in many years since my marriage broke up. Sure I'd been on numerous dates - one night stands even (arghhh - the shame!!). I think I thought he was special because he didn't give up on me after seven months of me saying no to sleeping with him. Met him at the end of May '97, and we didn't actually "connect" until not long after I'd written that letter. Not to say that we didn't do an awful lot of yummy kissing and....well...you know. A bit like "That Old Body" thread here. He obviously found me attractive physically, but I never believed he would feel the same way after we had slept together.

Anyway, enough for now. It's a loooong saga.

And yes, Obsessing, I did post my letter in the hopes JJ would find something useful in reading it. I did feel that perhaps it might help him understand how she felt. I dunno. Will have to wait for JJ to check in.

I've posted a few poems about him in the Poetry in Motion thread. And maybe I should dig up some more.

Always love,
Gillian

Gillian: Your post was definitely food for thought. I'll keep it in mind. Our age gap is more than 10 years so it seems appropriate that some of the things you wrote about she would be feeling.

I have nothing really to update on except to say we spoke on the phone tonight.

Time for bed; 5:30 comes around awful fast.

JJ2k2

I've posted a few poems about him in the Poetry in Motion thread. And maybe I should dig up some more.

Gillean - would you post them or pm them to me? I'd love to read them!

Don't want to hijack this thread. I did pm you but your mail box is full. I'll give your e-mail a try.

Gillian