Am I kidding myself?

Me: 40 and hating it, raised working class in Boston, Irish-American, stockbroker, Red Sox fan, two years out of a two-year relationship (I wanted him to leave his wife, he wouldn’t), eleven months sober, lonely as hell.

Him: 26, raised middle class in New York City, Jewish, computer tech, Yankees fan (!), two months out of a four-year relationship (she wanted him to marry her, he wouldn’t), never touched a drop in his life, not really looking.

Two months ago, we’re sitting next to each other at a sushi bar. Chemistry so strong you can smell it. We talk for hours. One thing leads to another and we end up in bed that same night. This is not an episode of “Sex and the City”. I have *never* made love sober before. He is patient and gentle and kind. Listening to him snore after he falls asleep, there are cartoon hearts radiating from my head. God help me.

Our relationship develops quickly. He is everything my other men have not been: sane, trustworthy, and loving. True, his idea of a big date is a hot dog at the original Nathan’s in Coney Island and a ride on the Cyclone. But he makes lunch for me to take to my office, thinks my grey roots are cute, and believes in me even when I don’t. When he shyly confides that he loves me, I almost split with happiness.

I tell myself that being nervous about finally introducing him to my friends is foolish. It isn’t. Never socially assertive, he doesn’t find an opportunity to say much. But he’s polite and inoffensive company. So why does L. – who found a way to remain my friend even during the grim bottle years– go out of her way to make demeaning “jokes” about his age? Sample: “You could have been someone she diapered when she was babysitting.” My sweet gentle man forces himself to smile, ends the evening as soon as he can, and refuses to talk about it later.

The next day I call L. and ask why the ****** act. It takes a lot of prodding, but eventually she lays it on the line. She disapproves of my relationship. She thinks my being with someone younger who makes less money than I do is a symptom of my low self-esteem. Her exact words: “I just hate seeing you sell yourself at discount - like you’re damaged goods.” I’m so wounded by this I can’t even speak. I say we’ll have to finish this later and hang up.

AA says: “Take your own inventory”. So I don’t even care if L. is envious of my happiness or maybe dealing some payback for the reservations I expressed a long time ago about her current husband. (Thoroughly borne out reservations, if you ask me.) That’s her “crap” and she’ll have to deal with it herself. I’m busy.

But Eleanor Roosevelt said: “No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.” So what’s sickening me now is the poison of doubt that maybe she’s right. I open my alumni bulletin and read about the women I went to college with sending their daughters off to kindergarten. And I’ve got my “career” trying to sell people things they’d be better off without, an Antabuse prescription with unlimited refills in my medicine cabinet, and a boyfriend who will impress no one but St. Peter when the time comes.

So the $64,000 question is: Am I kidding myself?

*GASP*You're from Boston and involved with a Yankees fan!?!?! THE HORROR!! (j/k)

People have alot of preconcieved ideas of a woman being involved with a younger man. Like its a sign of a personal crisis or its a using situation and he will dissappear eventually or its just a sex thing, destined to not last - anything other than the idea that two people have found each other, care about each other and are happy. It seems immpossible to some people that it could be a real, functional, positive and growing realtionship.

I too have been told I was selling myself short by someone who thought I was SETTLING for someone older as if I couldnt get anyone my age (ironically this was coming from a woman in her 50s).

The truth is that your relationship has as much chance at working out in the long run as any other so go about it like you would any other relationship - carefully and with all your heart. There will be bumps in the road and some will be agegap related and you can work on these as they come. The only thing is that your dissapproving friends will probably see ALL your bumps as agegap related and maybe try to manipulate you with their biased opinions. Hear them out, sure, but LISTEN only to yourself and to him. If you two are happy together, growing, supporting and enriching each others lives, then that really is all that matters.

Your freinds care about you and because they have ideas about the age difference, they think you will end up in bad place. Plus they probably saw you after your previous relationship you mentioned and dont want you to get hurt again. All you can do is prove them wrong and once they see you happy, they should be happy too.
Good Luck.

And try not to have any dish throwing arguments when the playoffs come around again:p

You live your life for yourself, not for the opinions of your friends. A friend is not going to keep your bed warm for you at night.

Just tell her that while you appreciate her honesty, you are not going to dump the most loving, wonderful guy you've ever met because she says so. What kind of self-esteem would that be exhibiting? Self esteem has everything to do with feeling worthy of love and with trusting your own heart and mind and instincts over the opinions of other people. Tell her that for now he makes you happy and that is what is important and she does want your happiness, doesn't she?

"I open my alumni bulletin and read about the women I went to college with sending their daughters off to kindergarten. And I’ve got my “career” trying to sell people things they’d be better off without, an Antabuse prescription with unlimited refills in my medicine cabinet, and a boyfriend who will impress no one but St. Peter when the time comes"

There is, I believe, an expression that goes "don't compare your insides with other peoples outsides". I've spent my life discovering that people whose lives "look" perfect or impressive are often intensely unhappy and those neat and showy lives implode with a depressing consistency. We're all struggling and life is a contant state of change and flux.
You have a job, you have courageously grappled with the challenge of regaining your sobriety and you seem to have a young man who loves you. That's more good stuff than a whole lot of people have. Count yourself blessed and lucky and try like hell to hold on to what you've got.

Thanks for the supportive words. Who knew I'd find pro-OW/YM sentiments here? :-)

And yes, it's the diamond equivalent of the Capulets and the Montagues around here. I've already warned Mr. Wonderful that if he ever refers to an embarrassing mistake as "pulling a Buckner" again, he's going to get an injury in a place he wouldn't want to be injured. May A-Rod find Jesus and abandon Yankee Stadium for the Cloisters.

Hi there,
I dont have much to add to what the others said - they gave you excellent advice. The only thing I wanted to say is that life is too short to be unhappy. From what you said, you've already been down that unhappy road (as have alot of us here) and now its YOUR turn to finally be happy. So just accept his love, dont worry about the years in between you and have the time of your life!! And dont worry about your pessimistic friend!! Like DS said, she isnt the one keepin' you warm at night!!

Dont let the love of your life slip away becaue of a few years and a well meaning friend.

Southerngal

kidding yourself????
i think you have more clarity then most.

enjoy the love you have found....

If you are then I am! I don't think I am!! 45 year old...22 year old BF of 2 years! Grab the brass ring! Go for it!

Hi DaughterofEire,

I am in full agreement with the responses you've gotten. I just turned 40, don't mind it at all, and am having a great time with my wonderful just-turned-27-year-old guy. He too is the best man I've ever been with!

Friends have no trouble with my relationship, but family has been a little more...traditional...in their wishes for me. (Been there...done that. At least to some degree.) Tough! I think though that they are starting to realize that my judgment can be trusted. Quite simply, what I want for myself has never aligned with their more conservative direction, and it is MY life, not theirs. They are concerned about me and want the best for me, but their idea of what that is will just have to expand. People develop filters and preconceived judgments about things to the point where they are literally incapable of seeing what you see because of their mindsets.

So enjoy your man, and with time, there will be those who are unable to deny that you're happy.

Enjoy Boston too. I am moving to the Midwest with my YM, for we have plans for ourselves which can't be fulfilled here. Best of luck!

Go for it!

oh wow, your friend is no friend... You have a wonderful thing.. cherish it for as long as it lasts, maybe forever. who knows.

Wish Iwas in your shoes.

I'm sure she feels your friendship threaten possibly. Give her some time to get used to it. Go out with her and still be her friend and as others say she will come around once she sees how happy you are.

She may not keep you warm, but she's been there for you otherwise before this ym, she just has to get used to the idea.

Paris

Me 52 years old and hating it. Irish American professional watching a 24 year relationship go through death throes. Lonely as hell. Go to a web site for a science fiction show I've been escaping to and meet ... Him.

Dave, just turned 26, a glorified office clerk who makes half of what I do. Lonely but not looking. Interested in talking to someone with common interests. After several letters we make that first phone call -- and talk for 3 hours, ending it only because it's 1 AM. I am stunned feeling as if I found the other part of me that I've searched for. He feels likewise. What to do...what to do?

I visit and it's wonderful even though his dog welcomed me by crapping on the floor. He's a virgin, but I'm the one who's nervous. I'm 52 and look like a couple of miles of bad road. He thinks I'm beautiful. I think he's nuts. Five years later he still thinks I'm beautiful and I still think he's nuts. I also think he's the most wonderful husband in the world.

He took me to meet the people he works with. I brought him to meet my co-workers when he visited. What's he do for a living? I tell 'em he's a secretary and a good one. Got a problem with that? So far no one has been stupid enough to say that they do.

He takes me to the beach on a moonlit night an proposed to me. Of course I accepted. My boss gave us a shower and no one has said an unkind word. They may have thought them, but I am there to brag about him so much that saying anything bad would be a losing proposition. After all I am Irish and a red-head and I do have the temper to go with it. LOL

We could get together and write love stories, you and I. The best stories are never the ones that go by the book, they are the surprises -- the girl who falls in love with a Beast who turns out to be a prince. They start out "once upon a time" and end with "happily ever after." They are the ones you remember.

You are just surprised that you are in the middle between the beginning and the end -- between "hello" and "goodbye" -- between "I love you" and "I do". This is where lives are lived, great loves triumph and laughter rings out. You and I, we are in the middle. We are still writing our stories and we can't stop and listen to anyone else tell us how they have to go.

How sad for your friend that she can't except your Prince Charming for what he is. She isn't seeing you as "damaged goods" -- she's seeing herself. Could it be that no one thinks that she is wonderful? Maybe no one ever has and here you are with a young man who thinks you are the moon and stars while all she sees is an empty sky. I've found that people who hurt us trying to help are usually seeing us as a reflection of themselves. They hurt so we must to and if they can save us they can save themselves. Tell her that you hope that she finds someone as wonderful as your young man and let her words go. They aren't relevant here.

Jewish men are wonderful. Our best friend and Best Man is Jewish and he is gentle and tender even with his male friends. He has quit a good job as a computer programmer and is in school to be a massage therapist. He wants to help people more than he wants to make money. His bride (not Jewish, an iceskating judge, and different in all the ways that don't count) thinks he hung the moon and supports him completely. He's her Younger Man, by the way and they met on line. They are supremely happy. I've never seen two people smile more.

Open your arms and your heart and throw away the Antabuse pills. You have a new drug of choice and I'm delighted to tell you that there is no cure. Love is waiting for you...all you have to do is stop running and let it happen. I want to read your laughing posts as you tell us how wonderful your life is. You deserve this. You deserve him. You deserve to be happy.

Go for it!

Peace,
Jane (56) who adores Dave (30)

Ps. You have great taste in quotes

Let me reiterate John's comment. Red Sox and Yankees fans commiserating together? Isn't that one of the signs of the apocalyspe?

Seriously, though. It sounds as if you have found someone truly wonderful. I think Jane (56) and I (30) have been fortunate in that we have not had many people find fault with the age difference in our relationship. I suppose we have it going for us that I look older than I actually am. We also tend to hang around more liberal, open-minded people anyway. As far as the few people who have shown dissatisfaction, well, it's not their relationship anyway, now is it?

As far as your friend, I would have to agree and say that she is probably projecting herself. Why should you be happy if she is not?!

I say stick with your new man. He sounds like a winner and if he's like any of the Jewish men I've known (see Jane's post) then you've got a real winner.

Good luck!

Dave

i bet you that i got more irish goin on........real mccoy, but here since 4, and my baby is jewish/puerto rican turned christian. here is the other co-ink-i-dink...a friend of bills for two years....

give it time, you wont want any other date than the hot dog and the roller coaster ride, living life on lifes terms is good.

my friends including my 22 daughter were dead set against it, i gave it time, they came around.

if you stop the crap going on in your head and live in the moment it will stop being about the age and will be about your relationship. your friend just does not get it, she doesnt have too, but she does have to be your friend, if she cant do that then realize as we get sober WE CHANGE and having healthy relationships is key to sobriety. acceptance sweety.........

the boyfriend sounds marvelous, a beautiful thing, enjoy it, if you have an emotional,spiritual,mental,physical connection what is stopping you????????? ONE MORE THING, YOUR PROBLEM SOUNDS FEAR BASED.......if you have done your 4th step you will realize most of our problems are fear based, never live with regrets, you are sober enjoy life!

rina

DaughterofFire - - - Are you kidding yourself? Not a chance!

Me: 52, and couldn't care less about age, german descent way back, government professional, Rangers fan, 3 years out of a 25 year marriage and having the time of my life.

Joe: 27, loves my lines and wrinkles :), 100% Mexican-American, Marine & college student, Wrestling fan, going on second year in the midst of a nasty divorce and giving me the time of my life.

I have to say that maybe your "friend" was there for you when you were in the bottle, but I'm not sure she is a true friend. Some people like thinking they are helping people and when you were in the bottle, it made her feel necessary for your well-being. I think she is jealous because you have landed a young stud (which she would probably like to do herself and doesn't have the guts) and she is feeling not needed anymore since you are sober and happy. A real friend would see how happy you are and be thrilled for you. Forget her remarks and forget her if she persists in degrading you and your young man.

People on the board have heard me say this time and again: You only live once . . . grab any bit of happiness you can grab and hang on to it for as long as you can. There is nothing wrong with you having a relationship with a younger man . . . it's the up and coming thing :D As long as the two or you are making each other happy, you should stop questioning whether you are kidding yourself. Enjoy what the two or you have together and start having the time of your life!!

Daughter, a lot of us got remarks like that when our ow/ym relationships were new. Some people in our lives were afraid we'd be used by these ym. Others were afraid they wouldn't be what we made them out to be.

I was 36 and Robin was just shy of 21 when we met. My friends made the usual jokes..."I'll bet the sex is really great!!!" I'd smile and say, "It IS!":D My dad said, "He couldn't possibly be a good stepfather to your children." Four and a half years later, my dad is eating his words, and he can't say enough good things about Robin. My mom adores him, and always did. Robin's family was skeptical about me, but now I am very much included in his family. I am also included in his friendships, his friends are great.

Your friend might be jealous, but she also might be concerned because the "typical" ym image is so negative. Party boy, player, young, dumb and full of...well, you know what I mean! It takes time for people to know him, to see what a good person he is, to see that he's not like that. They will. It would be the same if you were with a rich, older guy. They'd think he had an apartment on the other side of town keeping another woman to see on the side. It's always something!

Anyway, you've been sober all this time, you are in touch with yourself and what you want, so go with your gut instinct. I did with Robin, and it's the best choice I ever made in my life! For once I trusted myself enough to stick with something, and it turned out to be a blessing beyond all comprehension!:)

Good luck!

Hi,

Nothing really new to add here ..still shocked a Red Sox and Yankees fan would be able to find each other! ..I think that that its wonderful that you found someone that you love being around.. I justed wanted to say that I wouldn't worry about your friend too much..She probably has gone through ALOT with you and has stuck around through some pretty bad times. Getting Sober (i have been a friend of Bill since 90 ) is one of the most traumatic times for people around us too. If you feel your sobriety ( mental/physical and spiritual) is not in jeapordy...then everything tends to work out. People in my life needed time to adjust to the 'new me'...and I owed it to them to give them that time...after putting up with our bull**** and insanity for so long ...trust takes time to build up again...that includes trusting yourself too. I'm not trying to tell you what to do at all..just offering something that helped me..If i stayed focused on what was TRUELY important...1. staying sober 2. staying sober and 3. staying sober....all the little parts started coming together...friendships rebuilt and developed..and the miracle of new ones found there way to me :)

so here's to growing up ..no matter how scary it is :)

God Bless you

Heather

Hi D,

Its always difficult to gauge whether your friends speak out of jealousy, or protectiveness. Noone really wants to believe that their friends have selfish motives behind their words of advice, but unfortuneately this is as much a part of friendship as love. If you recognise this, you can hold on to your own power of judgment when life tips the scales in your favour.

Being a part of a new relationship represents an elevation of status to some people, and not all friends adjust well to this. Perhaps your friend grew comfortable with your status as
` slightly untogether alcoholic friend' because deep down it made her feel superior. And now, you're not only sober, but involved with a young stud.

Personally, I wouldn't trust the kind of advice shes offering. If it were me, I'd interpret her advice as jealousy more than concern, and give her time to adjst to the shift in power dynamic between the two of you. A lot of people DO adjust, if you give them a bit of time.

Congratulation BTW for getting sober and finding someone special. I'm just loving this new generaton of young men..I love the way they hate stupid female image stereotyping as much as I do, how open they are to equality and really working out the nuts and bolts of living that way, and how they don't bat an eyelid if you don't look like a supermodel. The guys I grew up with were frankly a pack of ,misogynist pigs. I'm glad to hear you've hooked up with one of the newer, better breed of men!! All the best,
Bel

Originally posted by John-311
[B]*GASP*You're from Boston and involved with a Yankees fan!?!?! THE HORROR!! (j/k)



hahahhaha....it's not easy being a Yankees fan no matter where you are from...thank goodness Clemons has finally come back to Texas, I can once again root for a Texas team ;)


DaughterofEire: Sounds like you are overdue on some happy for yourself, go for it !!!! It does sound like your friend has some jealousy going on...listen to your own heart :)

Daughter

I have no advice to give that has not already been given. I just have to say, you have found the right place. The folks here are wonderful. Oh, just one more thing GO BRAVES!

Btw...I forgot to mention (I have posted it before) but I lost my best friend over my age gap relationship. She just couldn't understand it and her little digs and trying to convince me how wrong it was finally just got to me. We don't speak and I miss her but I sure saw her in a new light. I would not trade Alex for a "friend" like that.

Amen, Tru.

Wow, what a wonderful beginning to a love story!! You know in all of our infinite 40 year old wisdom we still sometimes have the insecurities of our youth! I truly feel as though a OW/YM relationship is not that much different then any other relationship I have encountered if it was not for two things..the financial differences (in most cases) and the emotional turmoil it causes for some of our friends and family. Love is love. Every time we "fall" we take a risk, a risk that things won't work out, a risk that they may find someone else...etc..etc..But without taking these chances we will never find our soulmate. There are no guarantees..but I feel the journey is worth taking. Friends will either get over it or not:( It is not thier journey... When I met my ym, at the airport, (his mum, one of my good friends was coming to visit me and decided to take her son to get him out of the freezing VT temperatures) he looked up at me and we felt instantly connected. I know it sounds cliche but it was like we had known each other a lifetime or in a past lifetime. We too made love after a few days, the next morning I was so embarrassed. I am also in AA and thought to myself...oh great another destructive behavior rearing its ugly head...now I am a tramp!! I even wondered "oh my god, I wonder if there are laws against this kindof thing" (note to self.. all degrees,education and common sense go out the door when your heart is going nuts!!)
he is 27 and I am 44 (ughh). Well anyway, the next morning I am lying in my bedroom... no makeup, looking like death and he walks in and says point blank... Good morning..I love you..want to get married!! Ofcourse I did the mature woman thing and threw a pillow at him and told him to get out!! That was over a year ago and although we have had our normal range of disagreements, he is the most passionate, loving and honest man I have ever been with. No, I am not ready to marry again
(maybe never will be) but I take each day as a gift and enjoy the moment, and only if it is meant to be hope to spend my life filling up my days with all of those truly wonderful moments. Enjoy them...and by the way, I stopped my antabuse 2 years ago and feel great. Every day without our "drug" is another chance to truly live :)

Joi

You are not kidding yourself at all....
True love and happiness is possible between two people if the chemistry is there no matter what their age is. I had no intention of looking for love with a younger man but the connection between the two of us that we felt after the first night we met was undeniable.
When I first met my YM I felt the same way you do. My family and friends were saying that he (21) was just using me (36) for my house, garage, pool... His family and friends were saying that I was just using him for a summer fling because I was going through a “mid-life crisis”. There was just such a connection between us. One that I have never felt before, with anyone. I was falling so deeply in love but couldn't understand why I was so lucky to have found what felt like my true soulmate… and why he was 15 years younger than me. And, with everyone's opinions I wondered if it was not as "real" as my heart was feeling.
I found this site and did a lot of reading which made me feel a lot better about everything. And I am so glad that I trusted my heart. Him and I met in March of 2003. We have had some things to work out like all couples do but things could not be any better. He is the most loving, devoted man that I have ever known. He has brought out so many feelings and desires from my heart and soul that I never felt before. I never felt truly loved or wanted or secure before so I never wanted to start a family of my own. With him I feel accepted and loved for who I am… not who he wants me to become. Our families and friends say they have never seen either of us happier before and they are now happy that we found each other. Right now we are planning our wedding which is on July 31st of 2004 and we have just been approved for our mortgage together. We plan on starting our family in another year or so.
My mom still shakes a little thinking how if we get divorced I will lose half of all my assets I have worked for in my life. I explain to her that all the available men that I met that were my age were divorced and paying child support and were either living with their parents or with a roommate because they were broke. So…YM is no more of a financial risk in a divorce than any of the men my age. She admits I am right…. But with a loving grin says she still reserves the right to be my mom and voice her concerns.
Anyway, You are not kidding yourself. The love you are feeling is real and a true and a loving, long term relationship is just as possible with your YM as it would be with any other man. Age doesn’t matter… it his how you two feel that matters. Any relationship you may enter has its risks. Follow your heart. You deserve this happiness you are feeling.
Best wishes.

Hi Believe,

Wow, what an inspiring story...thanks for sharing it here and congratulations on your engagement!

I'm glad you mentioned the financial imbalance thing in age gap relationships...I hadn't thought much about how stressful a factor this can be until my 24 yo bf and I started making plans to buy our own house, which of course I will be funding for the next few years whilst my bf furthers his education.

Anyway I guess at some point I'm just going to have to let go and hope for the best, like wealthy men have been doing with regards to their poorer female partners for decades. If only homes cost only $1000 instead of a lifetime worth of savings....a lot of strain and suspicion could be removed from relationships!

Anyway, congratulations on getting to a place where you've fully committed yourself. Well done!