He walked out, now wants something from me..help!

Dear Wonderful People,
As many of you know, my 3 1/2 year relationship with my ym ended in October. I considered him the love of my life, and he told me I was his as well for all those years. We had a 22 year age gap (he's going on 23 now). I'm still not entirely sure what happened in the end, but think it was a combination of parental/family pressure, his not being able to shake the family staunchly-religious mental paradigm that he needed to eventually marry a young virgin, and that he probably began to resent me for the dependance HE fostered in the relationship. I continually pushed him out to be on his own, he always grasped back for my help, love, encouragement. It was like he needed me and then blamed me for it or something equally crazy. One of the last things I'd said to him was, "Don't come back unless you are ready to be open with your parents about our relationship, you are sure you love me and want to be with me for the long haul because I never want to go through this again."
He answered, "You deserve that, but you'll have to help me not come back since I know I'll want to...."
ARGGHHHH....I just said, "No, that's your responsibility.."

So, anyway, he left in October saying he would always love me but just needed to be alone and fix his personal issues (he was mature enough to recognize he had some). A month later, I saw him in a parking lot kissing a 19 year old red head. So much for being alone for personal reflection. I know for a fact that she wasn't in the picture at all when we broke up, but the timing of his immediate pursuit for the "young virgin" stunk.

Since then we have only spoken on the phone a handful of times, only because he's needed something from me. I had emailed him some in the beginning just to update him on things that used to be his life (my dad being diagnosed with colon cancer...he loved my dad....a friend dying suddenly that he cared about...etc.) He never responded, not even with well-wishes.
So....(we're almost there, hang on)....I talked to a friend and told her how hard it's been for me since the breakup. I've dated (other ym....still have that preference for sure), and gotten better, but the hardest part has been his complete lack of kindness or basic acknowledgement since he left. She encouraged me to write him a brief letter and tell him what I needed from him to really heal. I wrote him a letter a few weeks later basically just saying that I want to move toward peace and resolution with him. That it would be really helpful for me to heal if he just let me know that although he has moved on, he did love me when we were together. The letter didn't sound pathetic, it was just letting him know what I needed from him to totally move on. I figured that's what he'd want since he didn't want me in his life any more. He never responded. Either he has suddenly turned into a total jerk, or he had blocked my email address so he wouldn't have to read anything I sent him, or he's scared of something. Whatever the reason, it became apparent that he was totally erasing me and my memory from his life.

Last week, he called....he needed something again. He wanted me to meet him at "our" safety deposit box to get his car title. (He'd wrecked his car...forgot to set the parking brake and it rolled off an embankment:D ). I went out of my way to do that for him. He was barely cordial, wouldn't look at me, made me feel like I had never meant anything to him. I balled when I got back to my car.

The next day I was buying a lawnmower and discovered at the checkout counter that they didn't deliver. I own a toyota, it would never fit. The only person I could think of that had a truck was my ex ym. I thought that since I had helped him out the day before, he might do a small, easy kindness for me. I called him. He said, "No, I really can't help you out with that. I just have to go with my gut feelings." Sheesh. I balled again. He hates me. I never did get that lawnmower.

I just got a call from him 10 minutes ago. Of course, he needs something. He asked if he could come up to my house so I could sign off on the car title (I didn't help him pay for it, but to be included on my insurance policy and get a cheaper rate, I had to be listed on the title.....he wanted me to do that back then).
By golly, I'm not going to keep giving and giving and getting a dismissive attitude in return. I told him it was not convenient for me to do that today. He said he'd call me back later this weekend to arrange something.

Here's my question.....this may be the only time I will ever have any leverage to get him to talk to me. I really just want to sit down with him for a half hour over coffee, have him look me in the eyes, and ask him some questions. For so long he has avoided looking at me (because then he'll SEE me), I want to take this chance to make that happen. If for no other reason than to use the opportunity to help him see that walking away and ignoring someone out of the blue is not how you end a relationship or help someone you once cared about to heal. I want him to have to face his part in everything. I'm not looking to get back with him, or have the 30 minute time be a miraculous healing moment for me...I might even hear things I don't want to....but at least there will be closure for me. I deserve that, and to be given some time since he has continually asked me for mine which I kindly gave.

What do you think? Should I stipulate that I would be glad to do something for him if he does something for me...give me 30 minutes to talk to him one final time first? If you dont' think I should, why not? If you do, what should I include in my conversation with him. If nothing else, I want this young man to never treat another women so dismissively at the end of a relationship...this is not just a time to get personal answers, but also to have altruistic input in his life.
Thanks for reading, and your advice !
Hugs to you all,Karen

Karen,

You have given alot of time and effort to help this guy out and yet he ignores you and doesn't reciprocate. I just think that you need to let him know that you don't like how he is taking advantage of you when problems arise from him and the bad part is he is not appreciating what you have done for him. You need to sit him down at the coffeehouse and tell him how you feel and what you are going to do about it. You don't deserve someone whom you broke up with for some reason and then "uses" you when he can't even help himself. I assume he is confused and using you. You don't need that anymore and you deserve better. Those are just my thoughts :)

I am not sure what to say, but I think it is pretty obvious that he really doesn't want anything to do with you. Sorry for being so blunt. The things that he needs from you are clean up details, the car title and your signature on it. These are things he positively could not get from anyone but you.

I would, if I were you, try to find a way to heal without him being involved. Write him a long letter, pour your heart out, say everything you want to say, want to do, wish you had done, then, instead of mailing it, just burn it and burn all the bad with it. Time to move on and just allow yourself as much time as you need to do that. Date more, if only just to distract yourself, throw a party for no reason, just go do things.

Again, I apologize. It's probably not what you want to hear right now, but its my take on the situation from what I read. Good luck and keep us updated. :)

I don't mean to hurt you either, but honestly, I think you are flogging a dead horse there - you tried to get him to talk to him, he obviously doesn't want to - this is not gonna change imo - he will only disrespect you more because, from the way i see it, he thinks you might not have "gotten" the message yet.

In my opinion, you won't get closure from him - but take his behaviour as a clue and cut him out of your life - I know it must hurt and that this is not how you would have liked it; I don't know what his issue might be atm, but I don't think it matters one way or the other.

So,my advise: just let it go, sign the paper or whatever but do it by mail or so - I advise against trying to talk to him; it's history! Be good to yourself and let it go ;)

/hug
C.

Ok been in a very very similar situation, won't go into details because I don't want to take away from your situation but I will tell you how I handled mine... and why I think you should do the same thing.

Give him whatever signature he needs. In a business like way. The relationship didn't work out... not for your trying or being a wonderful person... that is not at question.

It is over... so so over. I'm sorry. What satisfaction would making him sit down at a lunch counter really get you? Want him to tell you he's a jerk? Even if he did would that make you feel better... I mean really? My guy told me it was all a lie and he meant for no one to get hurt. Well that didn't make me feel a whole lot better.

You want to know if he ever loved you? I think you know the answer... he did to the best of his ability at the time.

Don't use your "leverage" I mean you certainly could. How good would you feel? What would it change? What does it matter?

I sincerely hope, despite the end that you can grab hold of SOME of the good that you and he had together and know that is what you are looking for in someone else, but someone else better. That is what I got out of my horrible painful experience.

Hugs Karen....

This is just more pain that you do not need.... I agree with the others. You do need to let it go now....you are almost there, but trying to talk to him is not the answer...nor even seeing him, if you can help it. I mean, who knows what he will really even say? I tried to get that same type of closure recently as well, but when it was all over, I discovered that this person was someone who was not even human in his treatment of me and it hurt worse than anything I had ever felt before. Thus my advice is do what Carazy suggested: sign via mail.... let HIM wait, but knowing it will get done. Then BLOCK him on phone, email, messenger...everything.... YOU NEED TO BE IN CONTROL!!!

HUGS to you,
Linda

Karen, the guy doesn't want anything else with you, don't beg him for anything else, even for the things you are entitled to have.

Give him some of his own medicine. Show some pride! Honestly, from someone who has been crushed with that kind of pain before, he's not worth it.

I have always been able to keep cordial relationships with my ex, except for two of them. When we love someone, we respect them even after it's all over.

He doesn't respect you and he's probably more worried about what the new girlfriend will think (she wouldn't be happy about all this and she's right somehow - because you are the ex now and she's not guilty of his mistakes) than about the pain you are going through. You chose badly and now it's time to feel some rage. It will do you good.

Sorry for what you are going through, but you should get help if you are not able to deal with the loss, and it's not from him, but from a professional. It has been months now, girl, you were physically ill, don't let this guy take any more time from your life.

Originally posted by Nessa
Karen,

have him mail the title to you with a self addressed stamped envelope

any and everything you possibly have of his is either trashed or returned to him via messenger NOW.

he's not going to give you the closure you seek. he's given you closure but it hurts.

he does not want you in his life that's clear.

forget about him move forward.

Very good idea.

I am so sorry for your pain. This is painful to read and I can only imagine the real pain (like... intolerable?) I am sure that he loved you fully but something has happened to him. This is so very sad.
I do not know what I would do! I would do things that I would not advise anyone to do. :( I would confront him and make him talk to me...I would not do the right things. I think you have done admirably so far and I think Nessa's idea of using the mail is a good one. :( I am so sorry. I wish there was a magic word to say to make it all better.
Best wishes,
Tru

Karen, lemme make this short and sweet: FORGET HIM!!! Look, I know it hurts but he's treating you like a piece of crap! You sound like a very caring and loving person, but he sure as hell doesn't deserve for you to help him out, especially if he ain't doin' shiat for you! Love hurts, and sitting down with him at a coffee house or anywhere else won't accomplish anything. It'll only hurt you more and make him less willing to listen to how you feel. He's proved it already. How? By not responding to you in emails, phone, or in person.

That's totally wrong and disrespectful! He was 19 when y'all got together, and now he's not even 23, he still has a lot to growing to do. Hey, the way he's treating you will definitely come back to him threefold. WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND and he's gonna get a knock out punch one of these days and look back to see how great you were to him. Let him learn the hard way. Some people just need to fall on their face to see how they have treated people. Give him that oppurtunity.

I might get flamed for this, but I don't care:

Don't send him emails.
Don't call him.
Don't try to set meetings with him.
Don't sign his stupid title.
Don't talk to him.
DON'T LET HIM USE YOU!!!

You helped him, and now he doesn't even wanna help you? Yeah, whatever! You're better than that!

He probably figures just because he's a younger dude, and you're an OW that he can have his way with things due to the motherly instinct you have. Screw him!!! He sounds too immature and you deserve someone that will treat like a woman and with RESPECT!

It hurts to let go of someone we deeply love, but if they don't put forth any effort to show their feelings and love, there's nothing we can do, but move on.

In the meantime, I feel you need to try and get your mind off of him and focus on something else. Workout, run, swim, hit a punching bag (put a pic of his face on it), go out with friends, but be active and progress yourself to more positives in your life.

Keep your chin up and walk tall. You're a strong person! :)

It sucks the way he's treating you, but unfortunately, I've seen his MO before its interesting that its the same w/a non member.

I agree with everyone else. There's nothing else you need from this ym, you were both there for each other for 3 1/2 years and I'm sure he loved you throughout that time but he was younger then and younger still and will conform to his religious beliefs once he figures out that it isn't all about him, which is what I think he did when he hooked up with you, only thought about himself and he protest loudly about his family and church, didn't he...its those you have to watch out for...trying to break out of his religious boundaries that in his world can be quite confining...and the pressure from his family and friends was too great. Most LDS men cannot do it, i know, I've been there.

What ticks me off is that he hasn't the decency now to face you but it was quite ok to sleep w/you. If i knew who he was I would certainly give him a good slap in the head. I don't think he's a jerk or a snake, he's just moved on and doesn't know who to be around you. I think we've all been there, it takes awhile to maintain some kind of relationship with our ex, it takes some time especially if there's another mate involve. I'm sure he respects you in his own way, whatever that may be, but if he has a g/f then he has to respect her too as she is in his life now and you're not.

keep yourself busy, everyone else's suggestion of using the US Postal Service works for me. That letter someone suggested you write, I would write it and send it, without expecting a reply or any expectations, just write your words, pour your feelings, cry and display your emotions if you really feel you have to and if it will make you feel better, then send it away and don't look back no matter what.

Paris

A common friend might help you as well, giving him what he needs.

But I'd make him feel that now he hasn't gotten the option to see you anymore.

Karen,

Everyone here has said just about everything there is to say. Wow, all of you are so insightful and caring, you continue to amaze me.

Your ex-YM will not even talk to you for he chooses not to reveal himself or his motives. He chooses not to make that emotional investment in even closing the relationship. He is not now, or not ever going to give you what you want in an explanation no matter what price you put on trying to get it from him. He's done and finished and moved on.

Let it go. Do the paperwork as everyone here suggested and let it go. He let you go when he walked out that door.

I'm really sorry for the loss you feel of this relationship. MAYBE someday he'll realize what he had in you but I wouldn't count on it. I truly feel your pain, and I am so sorry.

Let him go. Stop trying to involve him emotionally again. Everyone is right. I am so sorry for your suffering. You must heal, though, and regain your pride and dignity if you want to have a chance at a future relationship with someone who will respect you and treat you better than your ex. Just sign off and don't look HIM in the eyes.

Karen, I am so sorry that youre going thru this, I know its got to be very painful...but I have to agree with the others who say sign the thing by mail.
I'd make him squirm for a few days, not answering his pleas---then finally agree but stipulate that it will be by mail only.
He does need a wake up call....and once he wakes up, it will be too late for him.
You deserve so much better.

BTW, Joe, your post was great, very empowering!!

Thanks everyone....whoa, only one vote for confronting the guy. Hmmmm, my best friend who knows him and me and the situation just said I should absolutely make him look me in the eye one more time, and then geuninely thank him for walking out of my life....look beautiful, wear a huge smile, smell great and take 5 minutes to tell him I have moved on, am dating and loving it, and am happy with my life, and so thankful to him for leaving so I could reap all of these great things. Not say anything mean spirited (like he might be fearing), just take the highest road and be kind, happy and confident (like I always was when we were together). I want the last picture of me in his mind to be that...happy and confident without him, and forgiving enough to sign his stupid paper right after I've had my say, and move on joyfully. Maybe even give him a hug at the end and wish him well with his new gf.
NOW, that would feel REALLY good! Talk about having the last word...and being at peace afterwards. I just read a qoute the other day that said, "It takes a strong person to be kind, cruelty comes only from the weak." He has been cruel, I want to respond with kindness. That would be great closure...and would throw him for a loop (him thinking I might be vindictive or needy, but me being confident and happy)...one he'd be thinking about for years. It might even help him realize some day how to be more noble with his actions.
Thanks for all the love, hugs and concern....I have let go, and am moving on. Have surrounded myself with great friends, family...am taking a writing class starting next week (writing a book about the past 5 years of my life), staying fit, dating and being a lot happier. It's a process, takes time to heal. I love hard, and I take loss hard...but I'm okay now. Learned a lot, that's for sure.
Let me know what you think of this new idea,
Hugs, Karen

I honestly think that it's not going to come across in the way that you are envisioning.

It's going to come across as your wanting or needing to prove something to him, to get the last word, to make him acknowledge that you're over him.

You don't need to do that.

Wanting to do it is the part of you that's still involved with him.

Do the paperwork by mail and don't have any further contact with him, his papers, or his pickup truck.

I agree that making him think that you have moved on is the best. Then, sign that paper and end all contact with him. Next time he wants something, don't respond. He seems to keep coming back only when he wants something. You deserve better.

The difference is I don't see him anymore as an adult, as a regular person. I see him as a boy who is governed by his baggage, so I was suprised that he would be like this, but it actually helps me.
It's good for me to see this nasty, immature side of him, it makes me indifferent to him.

I remember about 5 years ago...saying that I learned more about the guy I broke up with then, AFTER we broke up, than in the 4 years we were together. Then, I too wanted the type of closure you need-he did not give it to me-he wanted it over. But...after a 2 years, he went to dinner with me, and has kept in touch by phone, and keeps repeating how special I will always be to him. In the meantime, he married once for a couple of weeks and divorced, and married again a girl he doesn't love, to satisfy his mother.
THAT is real closure for me...it tells me that any love that comes from an unreliable, unstable guy like that, is not worth the fonts I'm using....it tells me that I would not have been happy with him if we had stayed together. It tells me that it's a good thing we broke up.
Special K, he knows he did wrong by you and doesn't dare face you...I'm staring to sense that childish people don't have the ability to feel and give respect...it's an adult emotion probably....
I agree with everyone else that you will not get anything good out of seeing him, so don't see him-use the mail to take care of things that need to be done. I am so sorry you are going through this!

Almeiraz
www.yourloveadvice.com

Karen,

You got alot going for you to stick with excess baggage with him on your mind.....there's alot of opportunity to meet fantastic guys out there and knowing that this guy is a jerk and all saved you alot of trouble :). Focus on the positive :)

Hi Special K......I'm so sorry you're having to go through all that pain and anguish. I know it's no consolation....but give urself a pat on the back for allowing yourself to love another human being...regardless of how they treat you. Having said that.....it doesn't mean that u should continue to let him treat you in the manner he has been doing. Remember wisdom and maturity comes w/life experience...not osmosis!!! He is very young and he is just behaving his chronological age. Joe is right...and I commend him for having the guts to tell it like it is. Through your words I can feel your pain and it must be a horrible feeling having to see him around town and then wanting so desperately to help him out becuz u love him....but Joe is right......you are deserving much better....at the very minimum even more decent treatment from him. Remember, we teach others how to treat us.....if u continue to help him out...you are not helping him learn much needed life lessonsl!!!! I know...I've been there....and its crushing when all you want to show is how much u love someone and they don't even have the decency to appreciate it.

Move on honey...as painful as that is to even contemplate. The less opportunities you have to be in contact w/him...the less opportunities you give him to hurt you all over again.........sending you a warm gentle hug to get you through another day.......if u need to talk, u can find me at just4jayne2003@yahoo messenger....

Special K,
you are asking how we like your new plan to seek closure by basically giving him a "nice farewell by taking the high road" .... - but I gotta agree with DS: I do think it won't work / come across to him the way you intend. Probably, because he won't believe you, imho, but think you are putting on an act to make him feel guilty (which he probably does anywawy) and to "impress" him with your moral supperiority (which he will resent and deny anyway).


Still, it's up to you if you really wanna do it; but I still think the best way is to make sure and clear that you have cut him out of YOUR life too (which for me would be the "no further contact" approach). However, if you feel you need to do what you described to get your closure, well, you gotta do what you gotta doe ;) - just prepare yourself that he might not see it or react to your "well-meant" farewell the way you envision it and that it might hurt your dignity more than doing a clear and total cut now ...

But that's just my personal take on it, who knows, I might be wrong ;)

But it's good to hear that you are prepared to move on and that you got family and friends who support you for this ;)

Originally posted by Deli
I am not sure what to say, but I think it is pretty obvious that he really doesn't want anything to do with you. Sorry for being so blunt. The things that he needs from you are clean up details, the car title and your signature on it. These are things he positively could not get from anyone but you.

I would, if I were you, try to find a way to heal without him being involved. Write him a long letter, pour your heart out, say everything you want to say, want to do, wish you had done, then, instead of mailing it, just burn it and burn all the bad with it. Time to move on and just allow yourself as much time as you need to do that. Date more, if only just to distract yourself, throw a party for no reason, just go do things.

Again, I apologize. It's probably not what you want to hear right now, but its my take on the situation from what I read. Good luck and keep us updated. :)

I started to write a reply but once I read this one from Deli.... I feel all I need to say is "DITTO" and "DOUBLE DITTO". Your healing and closeure cant depend on your y/m ending things in a way that you think he should .... but WILL come when you come to terms with, and accept the fact that its over ......and quit trying to keep him involved when he obviously is doing all he can to NOT be. Its not easy, but like Deli said.... date, do things, MOVE ON. BIG HUGS, and hang in there. You can get through this ..........and you will. ;)

...with Nessa, DS, Zephirine and especially Carazy when she wrote : "just prepare yourself that he might not see it or react to your 'well-meant' farewell the way you envision it and that it might hurt your dignity more than doing a clear and total cut now ..." Karen, what we envision in our heads and what often actually happens usually are two different things. And from experience, I think many of us have discovered that it does hardly ever turn out how we planned. I have known you for awhile, and I am one who hardly gives advice to anyone as I seem to have a habit of making the wrong decisions myself, but from personal experience (which I can never take back or relive much to the ache in my heart) , I think what these women have told you is the correct way to handle this situation. By signing the title through the mail and at your convenience is showing you are in charge and your dignity is still intact. But with that said, this is your decision, and one has to do what he/she feels one has to do. Life IS like one of those "choose your own adventure" books.... just wish we could read ahead sometimes!

Linda

Hon... don't do this. I understand the need, but the message he hears everytime you contact him is that you "want" him. I would sign this and ask him to find EVERYTHING else that he will need from you and get that out of the way now too (by mail that was a great idea). I would inform him that your "gut" is telling you that this is the LAST time he can come to you to get anything at all, therefore he better make it right. Then I would not take anymore phone calls from him.

Sweetie... he was the love of your life once... but he's done now... that is beyond clear. Don't give his ego the satisfaction of believing you have not moved on.

Oh Special K, I know, believe me I know how you feel. Closure is so important but it's an individual thing. You can't dictate his closure. It's internal.

You have not accepted closure Special K. It is obvious that you still care very, very much. And that you have not gotten over this guy. You should be at the 'hate the little bastar- stage.

Undoubtedly there were many wonderful things in your relationship but it is over now. And this guy is truly a jerk. a creep. a pig. Kick him to the curb and then step over him. My word.

The lawnmower thing would have done it. My god.

Absolutely let it go. You don't need to do anything more. sign it don't sign it. Whatever. But don't see him face to face anymore. Get caller id, block his email address, don't have him on your buddy list, erase every bit of memory of his existance right now.

Later, you can bring it all back up. Later, you can remember the good stuff and remember all the great things YOU did to make the relationship work.

Bring your friend here on our site, the one who is giving you the advice to write the letter and now to see him one more time for five minutes. I'll bet she eventually agrees with this board.

I am so sorry. I know how it feels; I used to have a huge closure issue. I wanted closure my way. But it just doesn't work that way. You have to handle closure by yourself.

Cindy

Karen,
First just let me say that my heart is with you-
I have been where you are.
Not an easy place to be-
but know your friends are here for you.

After reading the many replies in your thread,
there is really isn't much for me to add.
I agree with the majority here-
cut the ties with this YM and move on.

As far as your plan to meet with him one last time-
no, don't put yourself through that.
It won't come off in the way you would want it to
and will only flood your heart with more unnecessary pain.

You are saying the relationship is over,
but after reading your words,
I don't think your heart is believing that yet.
I see you dangling from a very thin
thread of hope in the this.
You have not let go.

This YM is a child-
that is obvious in all you have told us
in the way he is behaving.
You email him to tell him the passing of a friend
and he doesn't respond?
That is not a grown man.
He is running with the glory of this new found
freedom and youth
and you need to see it for what it is.

Make sure you give back and take care
of all issues that might cause him to call on you
for something
Such as the car thing or anything similar

STOP thinking about where "his head is at"
(It doesn't matter anymore)

Quit reminiscing about the YM he was and
see him for the inconsiderate and uncaring Man/Child
he is NOW

YOUR NEW MANTRA:
He doens't exist.
He doen't exist.
He doesn't exist
If you need something, anything-
call on someone, anyone else to help you out!!

If you want to look your best
and show how much you have to offer a man-
do if for a DIFFERENT man!
This YM does not deserve your time
and/or energy any longer.

I think once you rid mind and heart
of this YM, you will be much happier.

The puzzle pieces have all be put together Karen.
Let it go.

I wish you the very best in life.
Now shut the door with this YM,
(and by God, LOCK it!)
so another has an opportunity to open for you.




<FONT SIZE=5 COLOR=768A76 FACE="Lucida Handwriting">~Sage~ </FONT><img src="http://ChasingDownTheBlue.homestead.com/files/lilfairy.gif">

<FONT SIZE=2 COLOR=Black FACE="Tempus Sans ITC">I don't want no one to squeeze me-
they might take away my life
I just want someone to hold me
and rock me through the night
This youthful heart can love you
and give you what you need
But I'm too old to go chasing you around
Wasting my precious energy
Give me one reason to stay here-
and I'll turn right back around
</FONT><FONT SIZE=5 COLOR=Black FACE="Freestyle Script">Tracy Chapman</FONT>

HI Special K.....I'm soon to be a graduate of the school of hard knocks....you all are invited to my graduation ceremony...LOL. Three of the hardest things I've learned so far are:
1. forgetting isn't the hardest part...forgiving is
2. never say never
3. if I only knew the reasons why he left, I'd be OK

I'm fortunate(or could be interpreted as unfortunate), the same man taught me ALL of the above lessons. The man in question was a ym(I am 8 yrs older than he). We had been striclty platonic friends for 14 yrs before we became involved. We met as first year law students. He was married and had a lil girl. He was the consummate family man and I respected that about him. After lawschool and over the years, we kept in touch and caught up on what we were doing, getting together for an ocassional lunch to gossip about who was doing what...who was doing who...LOL. We always had a great time together.

Life went on, I got married and had my son. My marriage broke up after 6 years. After not seeing my friend for several years someone I worked with knew where he was working and I contacted him. It was wonderful hearing from him again and we made a date to get together for dinner. He told me that he'd been divorced for 2 yrs now(after a 17 yr marriage)and that he was seeing a yw now. I was stunned, here was the last person I'd ever expected to be divorced!!!!

Soon after, we were inseparable...spending whatever time we could find together...he was busy being a corporate lawyer and was putting in 14 hr days, including weekends...so much for lawyers leading a glamorous life...LOL....our relationship at that point was kinda blurry around the edges, but we both knew we enjoyed each other's company tremendously. Soon he was spending most of his time at my place and he just kinda moved in and I was ecstatic. Not only was I having a wonderful affair of the heart(and body...tee hee)with my friend as well as my lover. Life couldn't be better.
One fine day after 10 months of togetherness...he just up and walked out. No reason given, none offered. I was crushed!!! I was like a lil Lotto ball just spinning around wherever the wind would toss me. I felt so lost, so desperate. And all the "why's" filled my mind, my heart and my home!!! For a month I just grieved, he didnt' call, didn't come by....almost as if he'd disappeared off the face of the earth. I couldn't think of him at work because I'd turn into a blithering idiot!!! I thought if I just knew "why", if I just had some closure I could move on. So I hatched this perfect plan to go to his work, looking stunning(of course!!!)picturing how he'd just fall into a quivering mass right there on the spot as soon as he saw me!!!

The secretary announced my arrival and we stepped out into a courtyard to talk. He seemed very uneasy and was not saying squat. He wasn't falling down on the spot being a quivery mass either!!! At that point I was hoping the earth would just open up wide and swallow me. I felt so...well so, like the idiot I was being. Being the strong woman that I think I am..I resolved to accomplish what I set out to do......the questions started in a very dignified manner...me asking and he just staring down at the cracks in the sidewalk....and finally deteriorating to me almost drowning in my own waterworks!! It was a disaster!!! I didn't get the answers I was hoping for....all I got from this eloquent, almost too intelligent trial lawyer was...."I dunnno"!!! And HE STILL wasn't falling down and being the quivering mass I'd envisioned. After going thru one of those small packets of tissues and all the time watching him squirm with unease...I decided to pack it up. All my tears, all my love, all my "stunning-ness" wasn't producing squat!!!! I tucked my tail and headed for home....crushed. I cried all the way home!!! I mourned that relationship for almost a year....then after a year he called and said he missed our friendship and wanted to know if I could still find it in my heart to be his friend again. I have to admit I missed him tremendously and forgave him. At this point I had already started to date again and it felt good to be out from under his emotional thumb. After 6 mos of hanging around as friends, he announced that he was in love w/me again and asked if I would consider having him again. I agreed that we should try for a 2nd time......well it was short and sweet(ok..not so sweet). It lasted for a full 3 weeks...too much water under the bridge, too much emotional stuff to get past....and we broke up. It was never the same. The second time we ended things, it was I who ended things.....and he begged me to stay with him. I'm human, it was tempting to inflict the same kind of hurt he doled out, but I remember the horrible pain I endured and sat down w/him and tried to convey why it wasn't working for me. I don't want to sound too noble for my own good, I'm no saint(I'm working on that tho....)but I just couldn't do to him what he'd done to me a year earlier.

We are still friends, we call each other...catch up on things, but I've moved on....having learned what have perhaps been the hardest, most painful lessons in my life.....forgiveness, never say never and the reasons "why" don't matter....it just is!!!!

Karen
Hugzzzz
I loved Juliannes post, don't hold the title over his head.
Have it mailed, sign it and mail it back.
It's over with, it was over with long ago. If you are truely happy, he will see that in the future. Theres no need to talk with him.
But.......You gotta do what you gotta do.....
I hope everything works out.
~Tammy

Originally posted by Julianne
SK, I have a problem with you holding his need for your signature over his head, more or less, to get something out of him. (Holding him hostage in your home while you 'show' him you're strong and over him). His title and your signature are not necessarily the same 'favors' as you asking him to help you move a lawnmower. It seems to me when the break up occured you would've gotten his title, signed it, and mailed it to him along with any other belongings of his. You said it was his vehicle, so the title/your signature is not something to barter with.

Sometimes when we break up with people we come across as jerks. I'm sure that this 23 yr old man he does not like the things he's said to you. I bet if he was to admit it, it has been very hard for him to ask you for the title, etc.. but HE has to have them. If he was very nice and came to help you move things, etc., would you let go or would you find more hope that he'll come back to you? I believe that you'd see it as hope.

I think it's a great fantasy for us to show an ex that we look good, feel good, and are over them and have moved on. However, it is a fantasy. If he is truely over you, then you run a bigger risk of looking silly and 'obvious'. I would imagine every woman here looks back on a time that they wrote emails or called someone and wish they hadn't. Or saw a guy 'one last time looking hot', but then later cried our eyes out when he showed no care whatsoever.

I'm afraid I see you as very bitter. You seem to get joy out of him wrecking his car, and then needing you for the title. Your comments about his pursuit of a young virgin are not cool either. He's 23 yrs old, give him a break. I think older women have some responsibility to much younger men. When they decide to move on, we have to be excepting of that. He probably did adore you, but with him being so young you ran a risk by giving him your heart. He apparently is not prepared to give his heart permanently to a woman your age. You have to let it go and really move on.

I know I'll catch **** over this post. I'm sorry. I think you're a good looking, successful lady with so much to offer any guy, any age. I hate seeing you hold on to this thing with him. That's my whole point. I think anyone here who reads your posts can see that you are still holding on.

Like the others said.... send that title and anything else of his that you may still have. Then wipe the slate clean. Let it go.

Julie

*** Cindy and Kookie.. good posts! More tactful than mine.

I agree 100% with this post. (I talk to Julie regularly and she talks to me this way! I don't want to hear it sometimes but she is very "cut to the chase" and that is a great quality to have when someone is giving you advise!)
It is hard for me to think of but this could be me too. My YM is not quite 23 and we have been together since he was 20. I run the risk of him having some wake up call that he missed out on something or that an OW is not what he needs afterall. I don't see it happening but I know to never say never.
I only hope I would act as Julie has said and not cling on. (I am the cling on type) Rise above it SK! Sign it and mail it and let go.
:( I know it hurts. I am sorry for that.

You know what drives me nuts? When someone asks advice about what they should do, a whole bunch of women uniformly voice their opinions, and the person just ignores the majority and goes with ONE person who says, "Yeah, do what you want." *Shakes head*

This is a hands down no brainer! If you insist that your ex bf talk to you, you will look pathetic! You will NOT look like you've moved on, you will NOT look gorgeous and self-confident, you will look pathetic. You will look like you're very obviously trying to prove something...and he STILL WON'T CARE!

Hold on to the last bit of dignity you have. Don't let him have that too, he's taken enough from you already.

Sign the paper via mail (excellent suggestion, Nessa). Don't write a note to go with it, don't call him or e-mail him to tell him you did it, don't offer to drive it back over to him, just sign it and mail it back, and be done with it.

I think you're a very sweet, smart lady, Karen, and I've always enjoyed reading your posts. A bunch of us here feel that way about you. Get back KAREN. Get back your life, your personality, your goals and dreams. Make closure happen on your own, he's not going to help you. Decide to create closure for yourself, and move on. Life is too precious and short to stagnate over a relationship that's a done deal. He loved you once, he doesn't now. He fell out of love. It doesn't matter why, you didn't do anything wrong. He just did. It just happened. It doesn't mean you aren't sexy, cute, smart, funny, and desireable, it means he no longer wanted this relationship. His loss, another man's gain. It's happened to all of us.

My opinion? It was supposed to happen, because unbeknownst to you, the best is yet to come!:) Let this guy go from your heart, so it is open to receive someone 10 times better.

Definitely, do not play that game and, as Nessa advises, do not lie. Such behavior will just backfire and stunt your growth as a person and boobytrap your future relationships.

Karen, I'm sorry to say that I too agree with the others. I think the best thing to do is to take Nessa's advice and send the papers through the mail and cut off all communication. I can understand why you are thinking that one last meeting to show him you've moved on and are doing well is a good idea but I honestly think that it may have the opposite effect. I also think that it may bring up old feelings inside of you and that would be making things harder for you. You've come along way in the last few months and I would hate to see you start from square one again.

I know it's easy for us to say to move on. I've been in that place myself when Justin and I where apart. Almost everyone thought I should move on and adviced me to do so. I went with what I felt in my heart which was against everyones advice but I must admit it was a big risk which could of easily backfired. I was very lucky that it went the way I wanted. No matter what you decide to do you have my support 100%, you do what you feel is right for you. I just don't want to see you hurt anymore then what you already are. You are a beautiful, loving, caring person and you don't deserve this treatment. Just remember to put yourself first.

Luv and Hugs to you.
Brenda

Karen, wow, you must feel overwhelmed by so many responses. I Hope you're doing ok!!

I just wanted to add that in my experience, with regards to your long term friendship with your ex, it probably doesn't matter what mistakes you make or don't make right now......so just relax, Karen! If you want to confront him, I'm sure you will behave gracefully. If you don't thats ok too. Both decisons are ok.

Its strange, but the details of how you handle this breakup probably aren't going to determine whether or not the two of you will be life-long friends....... some ex's are capable of being long term friends, and most just aren't friendship material. I've had some pretty good laughs with one of my ex's over the years, remembering how messy and vengeful our breakup had been 14 years ago. It WAS messy, but I respected his honesty and his compassionate interpretation of things, so I forgave him easily. From about the forth year on from our breakup, we became friends again. Basically I think it's kind of expected that we make mistakes and get emotional at these times, so you don't have to be super-cool, ok?

Also, please remember that if this IS going to be a friendship, its not going to happen right now because HE KNOWS YOU"RE STILL HURTING.It doesn't matter how you act or what you say, he will feel your hurt. And truthfully, he is helpless to change that without forfeiting his decision to move on. He's also probably afraid to be close enough to you where you can hurt him back.... hence the stonewalling. Its basically helplessness mixed with mistrust.

All the best Karen, I am sorry to know that such a wonderful and graceful woman is going through such a tough time. I feel happy for all the lucky young men who have yet to meet you....you seem like a very special person ((hugs))

Thank you Zephirine for ur kind words and to all... for making me feel so welcome.

Karen in your own time and manner you will find the strength to move on. Why beat yourself up over the "why's" when the world does such a much better job...this is the time to be good to yourself!!! Karen has to take of Karen.....when my guy walked away I realized that he hadn't taken anything I hadn't willingly given him. He hasn't taken your dignity, your grace, your charm, your gentle, warm, loving spirit...those are still there......within you!!! Protect them, nurture yourself with that knowledge.

You're a strong woman and evidence of this is your ability to share your most intimate, emotional wants and needs, your openess in asking for support. As I've read the posts, I can see that there are many caring, supportive women and men who are bolstering you up!! How wonderful that these people...who u may never have met have the generosity of spirit to care and share your pain. I don't believe u need to know another human being inside/out to be compassionate and share feelings. While you may not agree with what they advise u to do.......sometimes one needs the objectivity of people not emotionally tied to the situation to see it for what it really is. The advice they have offered is sane and meant to protect you at a time when you probably can't see past tomorrow.

We've all been there...(some of us moreso than others.....LOL...like moths to a flame....LOL)and have learned to circumvent the potholes on this road we call life. Spare yourself some grief, confusion and heartache by helping yourself to the words and caring that has come before you and that is being offered.....it is all meant to protect you. There will come a time when you too will see things as they were.......the pain will be gone and you'll be able to welcome a new love into your heart....sending you a warm hug to get you through this day........much luv.

I feel so bad just thinking of how hard this is for you. I want you to know that, along with everyone else here, my heart goes out to you. I know that all of us, at any given moment, could face the same nightmare. I can only think that we give the best of ourselves to our relationships, as you did, and when that is no longer appreciated or needed, then its time for us to let go. I'm sure that your strength has gotten you through many things in your life, and I'm sure it will get you through this. Let him go and start living your life right now, without letting one more day go by obsessing about him. You have lots of friends here to help anytime you need us. You can cry, yell, kick, scream, or whatever other emotions you need to let out, and we're here to listen, but today or tomorrow, you still have to let him go.

You don't know me as I am new here but I understand completely about everything you say.

I would like to say that the advice offered by all these wise, wonderful women is excellent. Especially Nessa's in regards to just corresponding by mail.

Honestly, he is sending a very strong message to you by the way he has been acting when you have seen him. The best thing you can do for yourself is to stop pondering the whys and why nots and give yourself the gift of closure even though some of your questions may never be answered.

I tortured myself for 3 months over the breakup of my marriage. Wondering what could have been done to save it, what went wrong. We were together for 20 years and married for 15 and we had a great relationship until the last year before the split. After looking at everything in every way, shape or form I decided that I dont need an answer for everything. Some things are the way they are and nothing has to be said or done about it. I was done making attempts to tidy things up and leaving no question marks behind in my past. I started working on myself and the future ... it was the best thing I could have ever done.

It's been a long road for me and I still have a long way to go but everyday gets a little better. I have a lot to offer someone else one day. Although the question marks will always be there ..they no longer deserve my time or attention... I really have better things to do and a lot more to live for.

I wish I could give you a big big hug so I'll send ya one... (((((SK)))). Accepting closure and things just as they are and moving on will be giving yourself a great gift. It is not easy to do but wow what a great feeling when it happens.

You really are a great bunch .. I am so glad to be here :)

Hey Birdlady.......welcome. You're right there are some great caring people on this site. I'm happy to hear you've been able to move on.....its the hardest thing to do....but like you said...when u do....WOW!!!

Again welcome.....

Hi SK.....just checking in on you....how are you doing today? Today is one more day on the way to healing.....baby steps....baby steps.....

Take good care of yourself.....

Hey K....where are you? I hope everything is okay. You know that I have to agree with everyone else.

I know you still love him...I know you always will. You had some wonderful wonderful times together....times you will always cherish. Times that later in reflection, he too will cherish.

But, forgive me...he is acting completely IMMATURE. You are beautiful and intelligent and talented to no end....and far too evolved (for lack of a better word) to play these games with him.

He was careless with your heart...he can't face up to what he did...he can't accept a friendship with you because it makes him too uncomfortable to think about the past and what transpired...

One day when he is more mature, he will look back and see the mistakes made, and know who made them. But you won't be able to make him see it...

Its a shame...Your a wonderful lady. At this point he doesn't seem to deserve your friendship. Im sorry. Much love to you, I know its difficult. PM me when you get a chance.