ADHD 5yr old ~ HELP!

OK guys, I'm feeling overwelmed at the moment and searching for answers to help my baby boy.

He has always been a loving, happy child but EXTREMELY hyperactive. To the point of him twitching, and moving extremities constantly as if it's involuntary. He started K5 this year and it became evident that he wasn't able to sit still long enough to do seat work at school and disrupts the class alot.

I took him in for an evaluation, but I feel it was more like a "quickie lookover and slap a prescription in my hand" deal. He is on Adderall XR 10mg right for a few months and his behavior is scaring the crap out of me! We started out on 5mg and he started crying all the time and overly emotional. After a couple of months of that, the doc ups him to 10mg.

Well now my little boy is showing odd behaviors (chewing on things compulsively like his shirt) and instead of crying we are dealing with major tantrums.

Yesterday, he punched a little boy at the aftercare in the crotch. Shows little remorse about it and cant tell me why he did it. Today I pick him up from school, and they tell me how he got mad at another kid, THREW a chair against the wall, threw down in the floor and then sat in the corner rocking and *intentionally* spitting/drooling on the front of his shirt.

I'm looking for ANY online resources for parents dealing with ADHD kids or anyone that wants to contribute to my knowledge level of this can PM me.

I will be calling his doctor and shrink tomorrow and giving them both a piece of my mind regarding all this but looking to educate myself before it's too late.

Thanks for listening

Gypsyheart I completely know what you are experiencing right now!! I grew up with an older brother with ADHD and a little cousing with severe ADHD-tarrets syndrome. Everything from chewing on the front of t-shirts to the twitching of the head, making sudden "Ugh!" noises, everything!! So, yes this is typical behavior but it is almost unbearable to watch, especially if its you son!! Well, there is a book called, 'ADHD Autism Connection' which my mother has.....it helped her a lot with different treatment options ,(she hated the whole medical route, and HATED seeing how the medicine made my brother act). I would check it our if I were you :-) There are some great books also on www.hopepress.com ! You are not alone :-)

Try some of these -

This is a book I recommend, it has high reviews and you can read the reviews of other parents who have already bought the book.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0970246900/002-0751588-9957631?v=glance


This is a great website!!! Check out all the alterative therapies that they go over near the end of the page...(sound/art/music therapies...etc...)

http://www.enerchihealth.com/medical/ADD_ADHD.html


If you need some more info or help let me know...I have a degree in art therapy so I am very knowledgeable about alternative therpies being done either solo OR in combo with meds....
Feel free to email me! Hope some of this helps....
~Jessica ladiebugprincess@yahoo.com

Gypsy - I have no advice, but I feel for you. Sounds like you've got your hands full and then some. I wouldn't want to be raising kids now. When my kids were little it seemed to be the tip of the ADD iceberg. What has happened? It must be a biological shift in something.
My heart goes out to you. I hope you find some answers, soon.

Ladiebug -- thank you so much for sharing those links. I want to explore all options and will look into that soon! I don't necessarily think meds are the answer and have their own set of problems, so any natural route is going to be my first choice if possible.

Abby -- I don't think anything changed much in the sense of there being more kids with ADD/ADHD or other disorders. If you think about it, every family for generations back had a "black sheep" that seem to embarrass the family. Denial was common, and maybe our society is just better at giving some of these kids a "label" to their problems and not just casting them aside as "damaged" or "bad". /shrugs

Gypsy, if you want, ask your doctor for a report of your son's case and I may discuss it with the French pediatric neurology group I'm part of, and maybe someone can indicate me a good child psychiatrist in the US.

Gypsy - good point. At any rate, I hope you find the answers that will make your life, and his, happier.

My stepson has severe ADD.. Of course I don't know what grade your son has the ADHD and they react different than ADD but I do kknow that is parents, my husband and his mom when they were married were against all med treatment... medications I mean and he got worse.. he is now 19 years old and it has unfortunatly caught up iwth him.....

I dont feel medication is right in all cases... but some it is definatly necessary.... the ridilin I heard was harsher than most... but now they have new medication that is healthy for the kids... there is one called stratera that could help.... My husband now wishes he did the treatment on him but now since hes over 18 the doctor said we have no say....His son is so smart knows things most kids his age doesn't but he can not pass school... Not even his Automotive class which is what he wants to do when he gets older... Thta I cant' understand... but either way.. I think your best bet is to contact the doctor and DEFINATLY get a second opinion if you don't like what the first one said... Your his mom.. I'm sure you will do the best for him.... Like you always i'm sure have :)

I wish you luck and find the strength to get you thru this... I know how it feels :)

OK, important caveat first: I am *NOT* a medical professional, and any and all advice I give here should be read with that in mind.

I've been teaching martial arts to children for about five years now, and in that time we've had a several students we've had to deal with who have ADD/ADHD. Fortunately, I haven't had to be the parent of one, but I have had to deal with it as a teacher. And we've had rather mixed results.

And before I go on, I want to say this. There are a lot of kids out there these days who get diagnosed with ADD/ADHD when there isn't anything wrong with them that a good spanking wouldn't fix. Many parents simply won't discipline their kids, and then want somebody to label them as ADD/ADHD so that it's not their fault and so that they can avoid the responsibility.

However, ADD/ADHD IS a real disease, as I'm sure that you're aware, Gypsy. And it's actually not all that hard to tell the difference between the two. The real disease tends to have physical attributes associated with it, such as the shaking that you described. In the martial arts it's usually pretty easy to tell very quickly because of this. The ADD/ADHD kids just don't move the same way as other kids.

Anyway, I digress. The point is to say that I don't doubt that you've got a child who really has the problem, but also to point out that the experiences I'm about to describe actually comes from dealing with other children who also really have the problem, not just those who get misdiagnosed with it.

I don't have a lot of experience with the medications directly at all, so I can't advise you there. But what I can say is that even with kids who are truly ADD/ADHD, discipline can work, and can work wonders. Yes, ADD/ADHD is a real disease and causes real problems. But a disciplined mind can over come it. Your mind really can control your body - if you teach it to.

It's not easy. It requires a lot of work, on the part of both the parents and the child. But it can be done.

In particular, I'd like to point out two students I've had with ADHD. J started taking classes from me early last fall. He was very badly ADHD (one of the worst I've seen). When he started our class, the boy couldn't stay still for two seconds - literally. He just couldn't do it. He spent a lot of time doing push ups, doing "wall drills" (an exercise we do that works the upper thighs really hard), and sitting on the sidelines because he was such a distraction. After about four months, his father pulled him out of the class because he felt like it was a waste of money if J was just going to sit out half of it (not upset with us, just decided it was futile because of J). But the thing was, he was getting better. It was a small improvement, to be sure. And it didn't look like an improvement to his dad, because when J walked in the door I didn't crack down on him for every little thing (it would've been futile), but as he was responding and cleaning up one area, we started cracking down on him for other things. So he spent roughly the same amount of time in trouble, but his behavior was getting better. Unfortunately, his parents weren't willing to provide the discipline as well, and couldn't see the improvement, so they pulled him out of our class.

By contrast, M was a totally different story. From day one, his parents understood that he was ADHD and that he was just going to take longer to learn everything, and have had infinite patience with the boy. But at the same time, they've had very high expectations of him. They've never allowed him to use his ADHD as an excuse, just told him he has to work harder to overcome it. And he is - working harder and overcoming it, both. M also spent a lot of time in our class doing pushups. And he still does, sometimes, even after three years. But the difference is striking. He's still obviously ADHD, and has a lot of trouble concentrating, but he's made a tremendous amount of improvement.

As much as I'd like to claim credit (and I will, not so humbly, propose that we have helped a little bit), the biggest credit goes to his parents. They've never been mean or harsh with him, just quietly firm, and they've provided him with the discipline to overcome it. And while he hasn't totally managed that, and probably never will, someday he will be able to function quite normally in society.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that even ADHD kids can learn discipline and learn to function in society - it just takes a lot more time and patience for them to learn it. Don't give up! There is hope! And there is a lot of good info out there that will help you deal with it, if you know where to look (unfortunately, I don't, but M's parents have managed to find it, so I know it's there).

Good luck, to you and your son both.

Hi Gypsy,

You've gotten some sound advice, some of which I will echo with my experience as a mom to an almost eight year old son with high functioning autism and fairly severe adhd.

You need a second opinion. I've found pediatric neuro-psych's to be best at diagnosis. They can also manage meds.

Both Adderall and Strattera failed my son miserably. Don't be afraid to try a different medication. Your doctor isn't supervising your son well enough if he/she isn't following up with you regularly after starting a new medication and until he is stable on it.

Rhad, I'm not saying that adhd kids don't need discipline, because obviously they do, however, contrary to popular belief, these children are more at risk for child abuse than their regularly functioning siblings and classmates. At the very least, more often than not, even the best of parents will have lost patience and spanked an adhd child. It's exhausting to raise a child like this, if all it took to fix it was a swat on the butt, nobody would have it.

Girl

Whoah, now... maybe I need to clarify a little bit. I never said anything about spanking (although that very well might be a part of it - that's a parental decision). I've never once struck any of my students as part of disciplining them, nor have I ever needed to.

By "disciplining" here, I mean having very high expectations of the child (as far as "good" behavior), and instituting a very clear, understandable (to the child) system of rewards and punishments. For some children (especially when they're very young), that may include spanking, but it doesn't have to.

The key is that the rewards and punishments need to be consistent and proportional. What that means is that every time the child does something "good" and difficult (like sitting quietly during church, say), he should get a reward that is appropriate for the deed (which can be as simple as a "thank you, you did very well today), and every time he does something "bad" (like running up and down the pews in church), he should get in an appropriate amount of trouble for it (time out, no video games/TV, whatever is appropriate and actually works as a punishment for the child).

Also, it's important that you make very clear to the child exactly what's expected, and stick to the rules. In other words, you should actually say before church, "You need to sit still in church today or you're going to be in trouble," or something to that effect.

Clarity, consistency, and proportionality are time honored training techniques. They work for every single animal on the planet, including children (and yes, even adults).

Originally posted by Rhadamanthus
And before I go on, I want to say this. There are a lot of kids out there these days who get diagnosed with ADD/ADHD when there isn't anything wrong with them that a good spanking wouldn't fix. Many parents simply won't discipline their kids, and then want somebody to label them as ADD/ADHD so that it's not their fault and so that they can avoid the responsibility.



I agree, a lot of parents are just too lazy and fear disciplining their children and blame everything on ADD/ADHD. :rolleyes:



Originally posted by Girl
Rhad, I'm not saying that adhd kids don't need discipline, because obviously they do, however, contrary to popular belief, these children are more at risk for child abuse than their regularly functioning siblings and classmates. At the very least, more often than not, even the best of parents will have lost patience and spanked an adhd child. It's exhausting to raise a child like this, if all it took to fix it was a swat on the butt, nobody would have it.

Girl


Yeah, but 50 yrs ago nobody even knew what this was because no one had it. But thanks to the pharmaceutical companies, now everyone and their cat has it.
And this thing about children being at risk for child abuse more than regularly functioning children, it's bogus. I think the only people at risk are the pharmaceutical companies and their wallets! Without any new diseases and medicines to come up with, they'll all go broke.

Just my opinion. :)

Originally posted by Rhadamanthus
... isn't anything wrong with them that a good spanking wouldn't fix.

I never said anything about spanking...

Originally posted by Joe
And this thing about children being at risk for child abuse more than regularly functioning children, it's bogus.

http://www.hyperfast.homestead.com/adhdabuse.html

You're absolutely right, Nessa. Frustration, lack of coping skills and a sense of hopelessness and failure (because a lot of people are saying it's their fault, afterall) all lead to abuse of these kids, more so 50 years ago than today, thank goodness.

Gypsy, Im sorry your having to go through this..this is a very hard subject. I am going to give you a link to a great support group called ADDTALK (http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/addtalk/) this group helped me sort through so much when my son was diagnosed with ADHD and how to handle school situations and such. I hope you benefit from the support there as well..I don't really check the group that often anymore so I hope they are still supportive but it did help me immensely seeing how others have handled certain situations.


I can tell you though that Adderall does not work well for many children/adults....it will start off fine then the mood swings and irritability set in...when my son was on adderall he also started developing ticks nail biting,chewing on clothing etc that did not subside as they said they probably would..which usually indicates its the wrong medication or dosage for the child. I remember reading that you said you have BI-Polar in your family... many children are diagnosed adhd instead of the bi-polar..meds for adhd can cause a child bi-polar to act out even worse than before so it really is a good idea to have an actual child psychatrist diagnose your child and do not rely on pediatrician's who do not typically have enough knowledge of these kind of disorders to give out the proper meds.

I have experience living with and working with children that have different disorders so feel free to pm me if you need any more info...check out that group as well,it helps to know there are others out there with similar issues..:)

I understand that y'all have ADD/ADHD and I respect your input and life experience. I guess what I mean to say is that too many parents and people abuse it and people taking it don't even need it ( I am by no means implying that y'all are people that don't need it or abuse it). :)

Originally posted by Joe
I understand that y'all have ADD/ADHD and I respect your input and life experience. I guess what I mean to say is that too many parents and people abuse it and people taking it don't even need it ( I am by no means implying that y'all are people that don't need it or abuse it). :)

Amen Joe I know what you mean, my son has extreme ADHD he is 14, but it sucks because of all the people who abused the "title" of having ADHD, I don't wish him on drugs but I recently found out he may need litium!!!!!!!!!! (sp)
Me and his father are working together, the child wants to do boxing, Joe do you have any knowledge of that sport? or anyone? I wll do anything for my son!
Real ADHD or ADD is very seriours, I just think Dr's diognoise it to to many that may just need to get organized!!!
Remember the CFS
Chronic fatique syndrome? Everyone had that too according to some doctors
:rolleyes:
When you or someone you knows has ADD or ADHD you KNOW IT!!!!!
ADD or ADHD does not mean you can't clean your own home, that is piggyness, ADD and ADHD mean you can't concentrate on a level, you can't keep on track, sometimes people who don't have the disease blame it on their own lazinesss, this pee's me off, I know ADHD people who have organized homes!!!
Any way I am probably not popular here, but..........
My son is organized and CLEAN, he has ADHD,
I know many people who have this disease that are organized,
I too beleive that many adults use it as an excuse for their laziness.
PS my son has ADHD and is not laz by any means............
Thats my 2 cents..............

I forgot this part, about 4 years ago a doctor, who was an idiot, put my son on adderal, use this drug if you want to lose weight, but don't give it to my kid!!!!:eek:
What a fuuucked up drug that doesn't work but makes people zombies that lose weight! I had to cold turkey my old son before he died of malnutrition!!
Ritalin and adderal should be a weight loss drug, nothing more......
Oh yeah remember the people in school health care that stole the childrens meds to lose weight? What a joke!
Is the USA a nation of "drugs can cure it all" or have the USA citizens gotten so lazy and so undisiplined that they are looking for the "quick fix"? Sad.............
:(

Joe, we don't all have add/adhd, but we do have direct experience with it, something you seem to be lacking.

It's very hurtful to parents dealing with this to be told it's all our fault or in our heads. 50 years ago, autism was thought to be caused by lack of bonding by the mother. A lot of medical advances have been made over time and will continue to be made, for which I am grateful.

Originally posted by SnowPrincess
. . . . the child wants to do boxing, Joe do you have any knowledge of that sport? or anyone? I wll do anything for my son!


Great! I do have some knowledge of boxing. What would you like to know? :)

Originally posted by Girl
Joe, we don't all have add/adhd, but we do have direct experience with it, something you seem to be lacking.


As stated in my above post, ". . . I respect your input and life experience." and, "(I am by no means implying that y'all are people that don't need it or abuse it)."

If that is something you can't accept, sorry.

But I still think too many parents and doctors abuse it.

YS almost 15 comes home tomorrow! YIPPEE
Really I am thrilled,
BOXING~ I give my kids a choice each season of doing one athletic activity, he choose boxing, so I found a boxing place, its 20 miles from me, but he can go 1 or 2 times a week.
Joe, I have no idea what to expect, do ya just walk in and watch and than sign up?
I am bebaffled!
Nessa, yes he will be watched closely by me and Will, (until Will leaves for the Army) he is under constant spervision. I cut my hours and now am living poor just so I can move my son forward in life, and to do that he needs supervision.
I have organized the house from top to bottom, he can not function if everything is not organized. I will be homeschooling him, we have been working on his year long objectives, and boy I wish I could have been schooled by home. He has alot of choices, he may choose studies that intrest him. I am praying he doesn't need medication. I am just so happy my baby is coming home :)
ADHD is hard hard hard~ You gotta keep trying, and keep praying.

PS I clean homes for a living, but lately I have been offering organizing services, one lady I work for has big time ADHD, she has a very hard time concentrating, but when I come in to help her, she is like a differant person, she keeps on track, and I actually tell her what comes next, she has just become a remarkable housekeeper with a few tips and motivation, and she feels so much better. I think with kids its the same way, keep organized so you can teach them how to keep track of their things. I have a huge job ahead of me with D, but I am looking forward to it! enough of me me me
GYPSY~ how are you doing????

I have a step son like i said who has ADD...

Unfortunatly his parents never did ANYTHING about it when he was young he' is now 19 years old still a junior in High school and nto doing very well... hasn't really held a job... and concentrates more on girls and watchin tv and cant listen to any direction whatsoever.....they kept saying what can we do... he has add... blah blah blah... they stuck there head in the sand!!

this created the biggest rift in my marriage.. but since hes' moved back to his mothers in OHIO... to me it's great and my husband is less stressed out to...

Problem being is that you need to deal with it as it comes.. it's not good to let it go and just blame the fact the child has ADD or ADHD.... it needs to be handled....

When I moved in 2 years ago My husband and i were active with doctors and teachers and the one thing they said to me is that you need to recognize it as an issue and deal with it but don't treat it like a disease or an excuse.....

they may not be ones to do things on thre own but a good idea wold be to help them create a schedule and write it down.... coaching them is the best meds... and I do feel that if the disabitly is bad enough and the doctor suggests some meds for him I suggest use them.... they will only help him :)

Gypsy do you have an update?? how are things going?

Well I have been reading alot lately on children..... expecially where I am having a baby....

Lately they are saying that as parents you shouldn't allow your child to watch tv for up to 2 years because it could trigger ADD.....I'm not an expert... but plenty of mothers have been telling me that ...

Although I believe most cases are genetic also.... My stepson has it .... My husband does... and my mother... I don't so i'm concerned about who he will take after me or my husband :)

Nessa LOL ..... your supposed to say nah.. he'll take after me heheh

I know there is a chance.... but my fathers side of course doesn't have it my grandfather....

although with everything.....My fathers side was always the dominate one... if you ever saw my mother you wouldnt' event hink she was closely related to me LOL

I know...My girlfriends son has it and let me tell you he's a SWEETHEART.....he's so smart he is higher than anyone is the class... although he obviously takes longer to complete things....

but then I look at my stepson and I am scared to death... But I do blame his mother and father for ignoring it... I think that's why he is the way he is.....

:)

Your right Nessa.....

I just wish My husband saw this earlier .. it would of saved me a great deal of stress... my marriage almosted ended after 4 months because of it.....

But with everything else a Parent must be involved in there childrens lives ..... if not there is only trouble ahead :(

Blonde, I know what you mean. My son is larger than life when he's off his meds. He's incredibly funny and animated. Unfortunately, it spirals out of control fairly quickly. He could not function in school without meds. I give partial credit to the meds for how far he's come in the last couple of years. He's now in regular ed and working at or above grade level, albiet with a full-time aid. Also, I have no doubt that he'll eventually be able to function without them.

Originally posted by blondie
When my age people were growing up, they didn't have the medications available to settle us down, but the kids were always put outside to play the whole day, biking, rollerskating. I wouldn't change a thing about my brain. I believe there is some kind of glucose assimilation problem that comes out positive in a blood test? Or there is a scan? It is a little late, and I have worked with it.

How old are you? My brother was on ritalin in the 70s. Lots of kids were.

i really commend you mothers for your concern, and hard work for your kids. it must be hard to keep your patience.

my youngest brother (14) is having some problems with ADHD now. he is on meds as well but is still having a lot of problems in school, staying on task and completing assignments. my mom works so hard with him, talks to him about whats going on. it breaks my heart though, he is SO smart, thoughtful, such a wonderful kid. i'm hoping things will just smooth out for him.

when i was in elementary school, i was diagnosed and medicated for ADD. i don't know, i don't think the "H" applyed to me, i was and still am pretty chill. i was on ritalin, and some other stuff, which i guess helped, i was successful enough academically. socially, not so much! but that's another story...

i think i just grew out of the ADD. although i do have a lot of trouble concentrating on one thing at times, and find it difficult to take notes in class.

that's interesting, i didn't know about all of the classifications. yeah, my problem was/is inattentiveness.

yes, i smoke lightly, drink coffee, a lot actually, and alcohol on occasion. geez i sound like i am just pumping myself full of stuff.

but i don't really feel that any problems i have are debilitating enough for medication.