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Thread: "Cougar cub"?

  1. #16
    Optipess Guest
    I can see why Cougar is offensive. A Cougar is a predator after all, and I think that term has been used by some in a derisive way. It may have even been invented with derision intended.

    However, MILF is an entirely another thing, IMO. First of all, a MILF is an attractive older woman (presumably a mother) who a younger man is extremely physically attracted to. What is insulting about that? Nothing in my opinion. It's basically the same as calling her a hot mamma.

    Also, the intent of "MILF" is not to convey condescension or derision. It is intended to convey intense attraction to an older woman by a younger man. Intent is 9/10 of everything, IMO.

    I think the term "MILF" was created by Jim Carey in the movie "Dumb and Dumber" when he was very attracted to his friends mom who was indeed a buxom delight as I recall, or a Double Delight as I like to say. His intent was to express his over the top attraction to her.

    So in the movie, which I think is where it comes from (10+ years ago), he was attracted to his friends mom. MILF in the movie, and as I've heard young men express it over the years in their usage, refers to a sexy older woman (probably regardless of whether she's a mother or not).

    Typically young guys in their teens and 20s have said that about attractive women in their 30s and 40s, as I've seen and heard it over the years, and in all honesty, I don't think in most cases they even knew or cared if she was a mother or not.

    Anytime I've ever heard the term "MILF" used it was meant as a term of sexual admiration and longing, not intended as an insult.

  2. #17
    Optipess Guest
    Also, the term "MILF" does not suggest that the OW is on the prowl for a YM.

    Rather the opposite. It suggest he is on the prowl for an OW and just found one he's uber attracted to. So I suppose the term "MILF" says as much about the YM who says it as it does about the OW he says it about.

    I don't see any of that as derogatory.

    As for labels, why be offended when it has no offense intended? Also, I don't think MILF is really a label, certainly not intended to be one. It's intended to be an expression of lust and attraction to an OW, not a label.

    I can understand people complaining about intended insults like Cougar was originally intended to mean, but I cannot understand people complaining about intended compliments like MILF is intended to me, unless they want to complain that it's crude, which it is a bit.

    Yes, men do tend to like to attach labels and descriptions, but so do women.

    Recently I was in a high class bar and the two middle age women next to me were verbally tearing up some shy guy the both know. One of the women said he tried to ask her out, but he was so awkward about it that she can't stand him, and then they went on tearing the guy up, calling (labeling) him a loser and dehumanizing him for 20 minutes before they couldn't think of any more mean things to say about him.

    One the other side of me were two YW doing the same thing talking about another YW they both know, saying what a gold digging "S-word" she is, and wishing all sorts of bad will on her, and saying she is only with her OM for the money, etc, etc, etc until I interrupted them by changing the subject. I asked one of them who I consider my friend about another YW they know who I'm attracted to. I found out the YW I'm interested in is single, etc, etc.

    However, I decided it best not to mention that I'm an OM. They were unaware of that since I look young for my age, and after hearing them rip up someone else's agegap relationship for 20 minutes, I wasn't about to mention my age. Sheesh. I didn't know it was a crime to be middle aged, but now I know.

    The men in the bar were just talking about positive things. One guy (me) talking about a woman he likes, and all of us talking about our cars, work, and stuff like that. I did not hear any men saying anything derogatory about others.

    So while men may tend to label others, those labels are just as often positive labels, or intende to be positive. Sure Cougar has a negative intent, but MILF has a positive one.

    The only labels I heard from the women in the bar were negative insulting labels. For example: The shy guy is a "loser". The YW in an agegap relationship is a "gold digging s-word".

    Men and women both label people just as often. At least men throw in some positive and complimentary labels into the mix: MILF, babe, honey (as in beautiful woman), honies (plural), hotty, hotties, young stuff (as in beautiful younger woman), sweety (a woman with a sweet personality). Now you may find any of those adjectives to be offensive labels if you're determined to find something to be offended about, but men do not intend to be offensive with any of those. They are intended to be complimentary expressions of lust or liking you.

    Granted, Cougar is an offensive one attributable to men saying it that is likely intended to be offensive. However, I think men have many more complimentary things to say about women.

    By contrast, I didn't hear any woman in that bar say a complimentary thing about anyone. Their labels they put on men and other women were all mean: Gold digger, s-word they applied to another woman, and loser they applied to a man just for being shy.

    So who labels who more often? Men come up with more labels than women do for sure, but more than half the labels we come up with are expressions of finding a woman attractive or liking her personality.

    Women label others plenty, both other women and men. How often are the labels they use positive vs intentionally negative? Just once I'd like to walk into a bar and hear the women saying nice things about each other and men. Do you think that will ever happen?

  3. #18
    grumpysgirl Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Bella View Post
    Yup, MILF isn't too bad, it at least doesn't sound like I'm on the prowl, however in my case it's actually GILF, so......
    LOL you need to see GILF on youtube. Kai said OMG Meri its you..I frowned LOL
    BUT had to giggle

  4. #19
    cuteguy37048's Avatar
    cuteguy37048 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbi19 View Post
    I love cats, especially big ones...
    favorite exotic animal: White Siberian Tiger

    Yes I have seen one in person. Local zoo had one when I was in elementary school.

    Me and a friend have a thing going on. He's a grown up Marine brat and when I spot one I say "Milf status confirmed..." and he looks at her and says "and verified."

    I prefer Milf. Never really got into the whole "cougar" name, milf is just one that you can have a lot of fun with. My older sister even called herself a milf. I laughed.

  5. #20
    Kristin's Avatar
    Kristin is offline Senior Member
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    Optipess,
    Did you even read my post?

    The point wasn't in the label, the point was in the many different names for women that men don't get in the same situation. I never meant to imply that women can't be mean or label people.

    What is the male version of a MILF? There isn't a name for it. That's what I mean about male terms vs. female terms.

    And MILF does not mean "attractive older woman." That would be a very nice thing to say.

    MILF means "Mom I'd like to have nasty sex with."

    Yes, it is not meant as deragatory - I already said that. A guy would see that as a compliment if that is how he valued women.

    But what you don't understand, being a man, is it still
    1. degrades women by reducing them down to just sexual creatures & valued for their looks and
    2. catagorizes women even further by coming up with a name for women who are older and mothers who are worthy of having sex with.

    Look at it this way. What if, instead of MILF, they said, "Most mothers her age are unattractive. I could care less if she has any brains in her head or has achieved anything in her life - I just would love to F her!"

    How many women would take that as a compliment?

    Well, that's what MILF says - it doesn't value the woman as a whole person. It breaks her down into a catagory that, when you think about it, is quite rude.

    My mom used to always say, "If you can't say something to a person, you shouldn't be saying it."

    If it's such a compliment, would most of the guys walk up to the woman they are calling a MILF and say, "Hey, you're a mom I'd like to F!"

    So yes, on the surface, MILF means an attractive woman - but it's not the whole story.

    I don't want to be someone someone wants to just F. I want to be respected (or judged) for more than my sexual attractiveness and most women feel the same way.

    And if the origin of the term was Dumb and Dumber, well then....There's Your Sign!

  6. #21
    Inahnia Guest
    at it this way. What if, instead of MILF, they said, "Most mothers her age are unattractive. I could care less if she has any brains in her head or has achieved anything in her life - I just would love to F her!"

    How many women would take that as a compliment?

    Well, that's what MILF says - it doesn't value the woman as a whole person. It breaks her down into a catagory that, when you think about it, is quite rude.

    Totally AGREE!

  7. #22
    Optipess Guest
    Go ahead and give up guys some positive labels then. We won't mind. Heck, we'd probably appreciate it.

    Please don't give us any more negative labels though. Women have already given OM plenty of negative labels, as I'll mention in my next post.
    Last edited by Optipess; 08-26-2008 at 03:56 PM.

  8. #23
    Optipess Guest
    The male version of MILF? There isn't one that I know of.

    The male version of Cougar? There's plenty. "Old lech", "lech", "Dirty old man", "pedophile", "mid life crisis", and so on. A somewhat less offensive version might be "play boy". (Yes, sadly I have several times heard OM called pedophiles for dating YW in their 20s, as well as having heard all those other labels.)

    So in effect, women have not given OM any labels that are intended to be complimentary like MILF is intended to be, but they have given us many intentionally negative labels that are equivalent to Cougar.

    The fact is that in regard to agegap relationships, the OW have some positive and negative labels, as do the YW. The OM have fewer labels because they only get negative labels as far as I'm aware. The OM don't receive any positive labels, which is why there is no OM equivalent to MILF. That's why there isn't a DILF.

    The YW in agegap relationships have also received their share of negative and positive labels. I think their negative labels come from other women, as I was hearing in the bar. Their positive labels come from the men. IMO.

    Really, the only people who aren't tarred and feathered with negative labels in agegap relationships are the YM. They only have positive labels. "Young stud" for one, which sounds pretty complimentary to me. I can't think of any negative labels leveled at YM in agegap relationships. I think this is because YM receive a blank check of tolerance from society for agegap relationships, while the rest of us (OW, OM, and YW) bear the brunt of societies' prejudice.

    For everyone else in agegap relationships (OW, OM, and YW), there are many labels applied to us, but at least for the OW and YW half the labels are complimentary in intention, even though the other half are derogatory. For the OM all labels applied to them seem derogatory. I challenge anyone to think of a single positive label applied to OM in an agegap relationship.

    I'm not even saying any of this because I'm the OM in an AG relationship. Actually, I'm the YM and I'm enjoying my blank check of tolerance. However, I remember being the OM in the past and have not forgotten. It's tough being in an AG relationship, unless your the YM, in which case it's easy, IME.

    Really, this shouldn't be an argument about whether men or women are worse about labeling each other. Both men and women do it. Men do it more, but at least men often label women in a positive intent way (even if sometimes crude). Men and women are of equal value, but we are different and should be as tolerant as possible of that.

    What I don't think we should be tolerant of, is OW, OM, and YW so often negatively labeled for being in agegap relationships. Also, we should remember that it's not those of us in agegap relationships that create the negative labels. It's the rest of society that does that to us. So we shouldn't be angry at other AG relationship people for negative labels. It's the rest of society that does that to us. As for labels of positive intent, why be angry about that? There's plenty of intentionally insulting labels and issues to battle. No need to complain about things intended to be complimentary, or at least intended to convey attraction. I'll choose my battles carefully and stick to only fighting against intentional insults and prejudice.

    And on that note, in closing, yes, Cougar is a bad label created to be insulting, even though some people are not aware of that. MILF is just an expression of lust with no harm intended.
    Last edited by Optipess; 08-26-2008 at 04:20 PM.

  9. #24
    special K's Avatar
    special K is offline dedicated member :-)
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    Well, that's what MILF says - it doesn't value the woman as a whole person. It breaks her down into a catagory that, when you think about it, is quite rude.
    Amen, Kristin....The fact that the label ends with "F" is the rudeness quotient for me. How can saying, "I want to F that person" (be it male or female) be anything BUT rude???

    Now, if it were GLOWILGCT (Great Looking Older Woman I'd Love to Get Close To!), then it'd be fine
    "What the caterpillar sees as the end of the world, the butterfly calls wings."

  10. #25
    truckman Guest
    Based on popular culture's definitions....

    A "cougar" is an older woman hunting for younger men.
    A "MILF" is an older women who is hunted by younger men.

    Both terms originated from the porn industry therefore typically have a sexual "preying" context associated with them. As with all words, some people find them offensive, others consider them a compliment. It all depends on your perspective.

    You people and your love of "boxes", sheesh!

  11. #26
    truckman Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by special K View Post
    How can saying, "I want to F that person" (be it male or female) be anything BUT rude???
    For those people who are looking for "just sex" and totally into casual sexual experiences, well, that phrase actually means something significant - it simply means the person they are referring to is "above the line" as far as "doability". It's a compliment actually.

    For those of us who would be looking for long term relationships the phrase would be an offensive insult because by the words used the rest of our being has been eliminated from the equasion, and therefore the other aspects of relationships we seek.

    Like with most things, it's about perspective

  12. #27
    Optipess Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by sheila4pd View Post
    Negative label for younger men: BOYTOY
    What's negative about that? I was called that when I was a YM and I found it flattering because I took it in the spirit intended.

    Personally I don't think it's negative, but that's my opinion.

    What do YM think about it?
    Last edited by Optipess; 08-28-2008 at 01:10 PM.

  13. #28
    Optipess Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by truckman View Post
    For those people who are looking for "just sex" and totally into casual sexual experiences, well, that phrase actually means something significant - it simply means the person they are referring to is "above the line" as far as "doability". It's a compliment actually.

    For those of us who would be looking for long term relationships the phrase would be an offensive insult because by the words used the rest of our being has been eliminated from the equasion, and therefore the other aspects of relationships we seek.

    Like with most things, it's about perspective
    I totally agree, but I'd like to add this. It's not as simple as one or the other. It doesn't have to be enthusiastic about sex vs relationship. It can be both.

    I still think the term MILF comes from Jim Carey, but whether it comes from him or porn, either way, it was something a horny YM said to another YM about an attractive older woman. Taken in that context, is it really so bad?

    It's not as if the YM was walking up to the OW and saying it to her. I've never once heard of that happening.

    Cougar, on the other hand, was (I think) traditionally a YM deriding and disrespecting an OW while he talked about her to another YM. So Cougar is offensive no matter who it's said to because it's meant to be an offensive putdown.

    IMO MILF should only be offensive if said directly to the woman, which it probably seldom is. Said to another YM, I don't see why it's offensive to her. She was never meant to hear it. Therefore it wasn't translated into acceptable words/language for female ears.

    I think it's important for women to try to keep in mind that male intent does count for a lot. There is a difference between an intentional insult vs an unintentional one, and men and especially boys have their locker room talk which is not intended to be insulting, but to convey extreme enthusiam for female anatomy in a way they'd probably only say to another male, or possibly to a woman in the heat of passion if she likes naughty male talk. I did date one woman who loved that stuff and told me she had found me initially somewhat boring because I'm to respectful and proper, or was at first, until she retrained me. However, I always keep in mind that what she liked is not necessarily what other women like (probably isn't most of the time). So I consider her retraining of me (that she liked naughty words) to be only for her (since she liked that), not for other women (since they may not). The important thing I learned from her is to go with the flow and be somewhat adaptable because every woman has her preferences and they're all different.

    Every woman is different and has different feelings and preferences. My X loved the term MILF and used it herself, but that was her. I'm sure some others are like her. However, as we can all see from this thread, some women hate the term MILF, and some are indifferent to it.

    My X hated the term Cougar, and she was normally openminded about things. I think if she hated it, then it must be for good reason.

    No one likes the term Cougar, once they know it's traditional, intentionally insulting meaning. True?
    Last edited by Optipess; 08-28-2008 at 01:17 PM.

  14. #29
    truckman Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Optipess View Post
    No one likes the term Cougar, once they know it's traditional, intentionally insulting meaning. True?
    To me they're all just words, and by themselves mean nothing. Context is everything. It's the context that may or may not offend me.

  15. #30
    Optipess Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by sheila4pd View Post
    I imagine that for some people being called a "toy" is not offensive. Same as MILF is not offensive for some. It becomes offensive when you are deeply and emotionally involved in a relationship and want more than being a sexual toy in someone else's eyes.
    I do see your point of view, but I also think you're point of view is based on the female perspective.

    I don't think YM are that sensitive that they'd be upset about it. I wasn't.

    By contrast, what OM can't help being upset when he's called "an old lech", or a "pedophile" or "dirty old man" for dating a woman in her 20's?

    Do you see the difference? Maybe it's a man thing, but I see the difference.

    When I was a YM being called a "boy toy" never bothered me. At my current age, I'd love it if someone would call me a "boy toy".

    However, here is a telling thought. The OW I'm getting to know right now would probably be very bothered if someone called me her "boy toy". Me, I'd love it, but I think she'd be offended because that would be implying that she's a Cougar with a "boy toy". At least I think that's how she'd take it. I'd still LMAO if someone called me her "boy toy" though. It'd be so much better (for me) than being called a "pedophile" as happened a couple times when I was dating a YW in her mid 20s.

    If/when I'm the OM in a relationship, I'd love it if someone would call me a "man toy" instead of a "lech", "dirty old man", or a "pedophile".

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