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Thread: Is this rude or am I just old fashioned?

  1. #31
    LastTango is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by gorillagirl View Post
    "training" is for pets, circus animals, and severely cognitively disabled humans. it's not for college girls.
    Thanks, I appreciate that but if that's aimed at specifically at me I was responding to someone else's use of the word, that's why I wrote 'train' rather than train!

  2. #32
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    MissMuffins is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by LastTango View Post
    It's a genuine question because just ending it seems quite extreme, so how do I 'train' her to behave properly?
    As a general rule, other people treat us the way we allow them to. It'll be more effective to retrain yourself to neither accept nor make excuses for behavior that is unacceptable.

    I'm not suggesting you be intolerant; rather, I'm suggesting that you not continue to make concessions on your relationship deal breakers.

    As the relationship goes through different waxing and waning stages, it's easy for one person to be "too available" to the other. I say this having been guilty of being "too available" myself. I sense that you're more available than she, which causes me to think the best thing you could do at this point in this relationship is to be a little less available.

    I have a coworker who annoys the bejeezus out of me. Numerous times, I employed my best interpersonal communication and active listening skills as I attempted to reach a compromise with him that incorporated both our perspectives. Rather than listen, acknowledge my point du jour and give it due consideration, he would engage in never ending debates on the contentious points. Very few things were resolved, and the office was in a constant state of upheaval as a result. Once, in an attempt to end a neverending conversation, I told him "when it comes to this subject, you've worn out your welcome" and walked away. That still didn't end to the discussion. The situation didn't change until several months later, when I stopped speaking to him. I don't seek him out for conversation, I don't pass his desk unless necessary, I don't join him for breaks, I don't seek his input or request his feedback. When he speaks to me, I am cordial. Rather than debate the hypothetical with him as I once did, when he "goes there" I now use phrases such as "outside the scope of this project" and "beyond your purview."

    I suggest you take a similar course of action.

    You don't mind random "thinking of you" or "please get milk" type comments via text messages, yet it makes you uncomfortable to attempt a bonafide discussion via text. That's reasonable.

    Furthermore, you find it particularly frustrating and fruitless to attempt meaningful or emotional discussion via text. Also reasonable.

    She apparently does not share your discomfort...to each their own. While she remains free to text whatever she so desires, you could impose the restriction upon yourself that you will not be drawn into discussion via text on those things which make you uncomfortable. It seems your choices are to ignore those text messages, or reply to the effect of "I'll be happy to discuss this with you by phone, or when we next see each other."

    You dislike finding yourself telling her, again, that X and Y are unacceptable. You've spoken clearly and her hearing is not impaired; don't remind her any more. If the two of you agree to speak by phone at a certain hour and she doesn't call or isn't available, you are free to move on to the next item on your daily agenda. Watch your TV program, take your shower, do whatever task you had planned. Choose to have no reaction, even if it takes practice at first.

    If she isn't free for 30 minutes of uninterrupted conversation at an agreed upon time, end the call early and go on with your day. Again, choose to not react to the situation.

    It's possible that she gets something out of keeping you stirred up. If you don't rise to the bait, it's a step toward eliminating the problem.

    Honestly, I've been through so much in my own relationship, I'd encourage you to consider that there are other fish in the sea. Her behavior is about her; it's not about you, how much you love her, the potential you see in this relationship, or whether you're worthy or unworthy of a relationship. The two of you aren't married, this isn't a long-term committed relationship, and you don't share children. You don't *have* to fix this. It's just as easy to find a new relationship with someone who is more open to putting the same emphasis on the relationship as you do, and who shares your communication preferences, as it is to rewire what's become established in this relationship.

    MM
    Last edited by MissMuffins; 09-06-2013 at 02:36 AM.
    "Our past is a story existing only in our minds. Look, analyze, understand, and forgive. Then, as quickly as possible, chuck it." ~ Marianne Williamson

  3. #33
    LastTango is offline Member
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    Thanks MM that's sound and clear advice, I'll give that a go
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  4. #34
    mskitty Guest
    LT...

    I still do not have a clear picture of this relationship you are in... but saying that... I have tried to put myself in your position.

    You meet ...you two have an attraction... you have a wonderful beginning then .. she moves away to go to school? and you are left behind still in the embryo of the relationship... honeymoon stage... You have suffered a jolt and are left with the lack of daily attention from this new wonderful person in your life and to top it off... the communication is being neglected.. so now you are in limbo with where the relationship stands.. you feel insecure and grasping to regain the feeling you have lost due to the long distance situation and lack of effective communication.

    Please just take it easy and WAIT ...do not make a rush decision .. you will be around her again in December. Just take it day by day... and ween yourself from wanting to control what is going on.

    Put a smile on ..send flowers.. or ?? and cheer out...

    after re reading the posts .. and trying to analyse/empathize ... I just think you are lost right now due to the distance between you two..
    And which one moved first?...You or her....it is vague how the relationship started then became LD.. and that you are going where she is to work in December..

    You have received some very good advice ...be good to yourself .. check out some of the posts here on what others are going thru with LD relationships.. it is not easy. lots of doubts , communication breakdowns , and more.

    December is just around the corner...

  5. #35
    LastTango is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskitty View Post
    I still do not have a clear picture of this relationship you are in... but saying that... I have tried to put myself in your position.

    You meet ...you two have an attraction... you have a wonderful beginning then .. she moves away to go to school?
    Sorry I'll clarify. I was working for 6 months in the place where I will be going back to in December, she was working in the same town and moved into the digs I was living in in February. We immediately hit it off as friends and spent a lot of time together but there was no more than a very strong friendship to begin with although I later realised when we talked that we were both strongly attracted to each other from the start. I had an 'oh my god I think I know this person' moment, as I believe did she, very early on, it's the first time I've ever experienced that in my life. Our 'friendship' became more than just a friendship in April and although she was working longer hours than me we had a lovely time until we parted in early June. We parted because I had to move away, again due to work commitments, she stayed in the same town until the end of August when she moved some 20 miles down the road in order to start a 2 year college course, that's where she is now. When we first parted the pain of separation was something for both of us that was quite a shock, again I have never experienced something so strong before but for various reasons we could not see each other for just under 4 weeks, when we did get back together again (she travelled to see me) for a few days it was again fantastic but communication in between times was not as good as it might have been. We then met up again around two and half weeks later (we both met up at a half way point so both traveled to see each other) and again it was fantastic when we were together but in between times were difficult and she was getting increasingly tired from over work. A couple of weeks later I went up to see her for 6 days but she was working 12/13 hour shifts for four of those six days and was very tired. The time together was as a result not as easy as the other meet ups and I was pretty shocked at how tired she was, she only really became herself again on the last day when she'd managed to get a bit of rest. For various reasons since then, including both of us moving houses as well as her work load, we have been unable to meet up for 5 weeks now and communication became increasingly difficult/problematic and my anxiety has grown.

    I hope that gives you a bit more clarity about how it has developed up to this point in time.
    and you are left behind still in the embryo of the relationship... honeymoon stage... You have suffered a jolt and are left with the lack of daily attention from this new wonderful person in your life and to top it off... the communication is being neglected.. so now you are in limbo with where the relationship stands.. you feel insecure and grasping to regain the feeling you have lost due to the long distance situation and lack of effective communication.
    I think that pretty fairly sums it up yes.
    Please just take it easy and WAIT ...do not make a rush decision .. you will be around her again in December. Just take it day by day... and ween yourself from wanting to control what is going on.

    Put a smile on ..send flowers.. or ?? and cheer out...
    I will thanks for the advice there, I am feeling happier about things since the other night and have relaxed a bit already
    after re reading the posts .. and trying to analyse/empathize ... I just think you are lost right now due to the distance between you two..
    And which one moved first?...You or her....it is vague how the relationship started then became LD.. and that you are going where she is to work in December..
    Hopefully what I've written above has helped to clarify that?
    You have received some very good advice ...be good to yourself .. check out some of the posts here on what others are going thru with LD relationships.. it is not easy. lots of doubts , communication breakdowns , and more.

    December is just around the corner...
    Thanks that's reassuring I'll check out the LD threads for sure.

    Again thanks for that.
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  6. #36
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    LastTango, I am sorry you are going through all of this with your girlfriend. I can see you really care about her, miss her, and you want to know that you have a place in her life.

    Communication is a very important part of a relationship. We all know that. Given her experience with relationships, she may still need to learn that all relationships need to be nurtured. Or she may already know this, but right now it is almost impossible for her to do.

    I understand that you would like her to make time for you. But I am not seeing any compassion from you for her and what's going on in her life right now. This woman has just moved into a new place, started school, works insane hours, and is being pulled in all directions by her friends, family, and you. I'm guessing she might have a people pleasing tendency and just can't say "no" when someone asks her to do something, no matter how much it may inconvenience her. So she ends up agreeing to phone dates, friends requests, etc, then ends up flaking. She doesn't mean to, and genuinely feels bad when she does. But she also feels bad if she has to tell someone she can't do something for them. Saying "no" is something she has to learn how to do on her own.

    Chances are, you are causing her extra stress by your nagging. She knows you prefer phone calls over texts, etc. But she is pulled so thin right now that it might be difficult for her.

    Rather than making MORE demands on this poor girl, what if you show her some sympathy and concern? This will get you a lot further than nagging. As the saying goes, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar! When you call her and she is obviously tired, you tell her, "Honey, you sound exhausted. I miss you but why don't we talk later? You need your rest." If you text her and she doesn't reply within a few minutes, text her, "Baby, you must be busy. Text me back when you get a moment." This lets her know that you are there for her, thinking of her, but you are understanding that she has a life that doesn't revolve around you. Ask her every once in a while, "You seem very stressed. What can I do to help you out?"

    Ms Kitty's idea was great. Send her some flowers to cheer her up. Next time you are shopping, stop by the card aisle and find a cute card to send her "just because" you were thinking of her. Let her know that you understand her situation, and hopefully she will be more understanding of yours. Let her know you can't wait for December when this long-distance thing is over!

    Show her some compassion and that you respect her situation. You may find that she starts doing the same for you.
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  7. #37
    LastTango is offline Member
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    Hi pinkunicorn, thanks for your comments.

    I have to disagree with you slightly, I think I am showing compassion and understanding for her and have been trying to for 3 months now. I don't think my recent comments above have been compassionless either, I've carefully explained her situation and have made it clear I do understand the difficult situation. I have offered her support, on the 6 day trip to see her I specifically went there so I could help and cook for her and help her. I have regularly sent her flowers, cards and little care gifts and have never complained that I have not had any in return. I have a card ready to go to her now but cannot send it because she has not given me her new postal address despite my asking a couple of times and I don't want to 'nag' her about it.

    I think you are absolutely right that she finds it hard to say no and that is perhaps something I need to accommodate more but perhaps she needs to learn to prioritise better as well. Perhaps I also do need to be more understanding (despite quite a lot of people on this thread saying I should be less understanding) but I cannot agree that I have lacked any compassion.

    I may well be causing her extra stress by my 'nagging' but when my feelings are hurt it's difficult to bottle it up for any length of time and I prefer to be honest. However following some of the useful advice here I have backed off and am giving her some space and yes I think I need to learn some more patience sometimes.

    I think your suggestions for how I handle those moments when I think she is stressed and what I could say are great and I will try to bear those in mind but please don't think I haven't done that on some occasions in the past because I have
    Show her some compassion and that you respect her situation. You may find that she starts doing the same for you.
    I think that is something to bear in mind for sure but as I say I don't think it would be fair to say I haven't shown any compassion for her situation in the past but perhaps you're right that I should be more patient and show even more compassion, that's actually closer to my own feelings on the matter but it does run counter to some of the other comments I've read here!

  8. #38
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    I'm glad to hear that!

    Bottling up your feelings is rather counterintuitive when it comes to a relationship, but keeping feelings suppressed is very different from backing off and giving someone the space that they may need.

    LDR's are hard to maintain and take an effort from both sides. Is she willing to do that on her side? Is she even able to do so at this point? By giving her some space, you might help her find the answer to these questions.

    Nagging and being nagged are relationship killers, especially so early on in the relationship.

    Remember, December is just 3 months away!
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  9. #39
    gorillagirl Guest
    your "girlfriend" hasn't given you her address. HELLO?
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  10. #40
    LastTango is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by gorillagirl View Post
    your "girlfriend" hasn't given you her address. HELLO?
    Thanks but that's not the most constructive of comments is it!

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by LastTango View Post
    Thanks but that's not the most constructive of comments is it!
    I think GG has a valid point. You've stated that this girl does not want to make any plans for you to get together. She doesn't want to talk to you on the phone, and now you've revealed that, despite asking her several times for her new address, she hasn't given it to you. It's really time for you to stop making excuses and allowances for her. She's "just not that into you". I'm sorry if that's painful for you to realize but you're getting advice and insight from people who are completely objective.

    This girl is, currently, not able to give you what you want. Either accept that and take what you get, or don't get, with no expectations, or move on and look for
    someone who will give you what you want.

    You deserve more.
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  12. #42
    gorillagirl Guest
    Last Tango, go back and read Chronos' threads. As Trish said, she's just not that into you. Sorry to say...but when a person is in love and committed to you, there is no avoidance, passive aggression, secretiveness, ambiguity, etc...

  13. #43
    LastTango is offline Member
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    Well guys I'm getting two distinct lines here, on the one hand there are those saying she's a waste of time leave her and on the other there are those saying I should be more understanding, back off a bit and see how it goes because December is not that far away.

    Sorry to those in the dump her camp but I'm going with the latter advice which I guess is closer to my inclination anyway despite the frustrations

  14. #44
    degausser is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by LastTango View Post
    Thanks but that's not the most constructive of comments is it!
    I think it is constructive. You've made it clear that you aren't ready to call it quits, and I'm not judging (side note: autocorrect changed that to 'I'm into judging' which is freaking hilarious). But in any relationship, you need to be realistic and you need to think logically. You should be keeping a mental list of red flags, just so that you're fully aware of your situation. You can love her and you can try to make this work, but don't look at your relationship with love goggles.
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  15. #45
    MissMuffins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LastTango View Post
    I have a card ready to go to her now but cannot send it because she has not given me her new postal address despite my asking a couple of times and I don't want to 'nag' her about it.
    When I was 17, I was pen pals with a young man who'd graduated from a rival high school in our area. He joined the military, and I sent him friendly letters and newspaper clippings about his school's football team and the like. A week after my 18th birthday, we became engaged and were married 10 months later.

    During our engagement, his behavior was very much like you describe...right down to moving and not keeping me updated about his address. Instead of listening to my intuition, I "fought" for the relationship because that's what we're supposed to do. Ours was never a strong relationship, and it made for an even weaker marriage. With the clarity of hindsight I see that the relationship did very, very little to enrich my life yet caused me a significant amount of harm. I put a great deal more into it than I ever received from it. Its demise 13 years later was long overdue, and instead of simply letting it be over and going on our separate ways, he ensured that it was as catastrophic as he could make it for our sons and me.

    Granted, if I'd walked away from it, I wouldn't have my sons. While I wouldn't change that for anything, I didn't become a mother just to put my children through that. If I had it to do again, there is a great deal I would have done differently. The first thing I would have done: recognize and accept that the relationship wasn't worth "fighting" for.

    MM
    "Our past is a story existing only in our minds. Look, analyze, understand, and forgive. Then, as quickly as possible, chuck it." ~ Marianne Williamson

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