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Thread: Tricky one!

  1. #1
    Helena is offline Neophyte
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    Tricky one!

    I am very glad I found this forum. I have been searching around for something for a while now.
    Here is the story so far. I have had a love affair with England since 1985....in particular London. Fortunately the last few years I have managed to visit there once a year. This year I went over with a girlfriend. I always stay at the same place in London. Which I consider my second home.
    While over there I met a wonderful guy. He is also a member where I stay. With my friend we went to a gallery together the day after we met. Oddly he suggested it first off and it had gone under my radar after all these years. I had heard about it but for some reason never followed it up. And I am an artist. BTW it is no usual to get chummy with the members at this place. It sometimes feels we are all one happy family.
    Anyway while at the gallery it unfolded that we had so many identical interests. Now many of mine are very obscure. Only 3-5% of the population have such interests so it is very odd to meet someone so in tuned in a city of over 10 million people. Also we share cultural interest and we are both passionate about England and its history.
    As he left to go back home he mentioned without any preamble that he was going to a talk which I had been busting to go to. It too was very obscure. I had been moaning to my friends that I was going to miss it as I had booked early bird and didnít realise that it was on. Otherwise I would have changed the dates. Anyway at that point my jaw just dropped.
    We caught up again before me and my friend headed off to the country. I stayed in touch with Jon via email for the three weeks. We wrote so much that when I came back and organised my folders I found that there was one email from him I hadnít even opened.
    When back in London we caught up numerous times. Always with my friend. Since home I have stayed in touch via email. Through the emails he said our meeting was a one in a million chance. An answer to a prayer. I freaked at all of this. Said something stupid and never thought he would speak to me again...in fact I think I hurt him badly as he told me to basically have a nice life and goodbye. For whatever reason he got back to me two days later. I couldnít believe he had!
    As this has all unfolded the amount of interests and things we share are incredible. The list is vast. There has also been amazing synchronicity involved. And I mean amazing! Even to the point we want to live in the same part of London! He was the one who mentioned it. But it even goes further and stranger than that!
    From that first day we went to the gallery I felt so drawn to him and I could see myself falling for him. I pride myself with a heart of solid stone due to my circumstances which I will enlarged upon further down. It has now been five months since I first met him. Stupidly I told him while there I would not come back because this was my goodbye to UK. And I have also told him via email. Now I want to go back this year but feel that might look like I am chasing him. Though I get the strong feeling he definitely wants me back. But we are still doing a dance around each other. He is very upper middle class British....which is great in person but doesnít work well in emails. We email 1-6 times a day depending on how busy we are.
    I am 60 but look in late 30s. Tall, slim, no wrinkles. He is about 50ish and looks older than me. I hate the fact he is younger though. Really bugs me. He doesnít know my age but I think he can kind of figure it from what I have told him. He hasnít told me his but he would if I asked him. He tells me everything if I ask. Also he has volunteers a lot.
    Now here is the rub. I am married to a man 82 who is a brut. We sleep in separate rooms. I have tried to leave him a number of times but he has seen to it that I have nothing. No career. No money. He has been very clever. He would destroy me and has attempted to in the past when I have left. I am figuring now he will probably die at some stage. He has a heart condition.
    I have been back three months and it was painful being away from London and Jon for a long time. I am just coming good now. But Jon is struggling. He has been saying in his last few emails that he is love deprived and depressed and feels like giving up. I donít even think he knows what it is to be in a LDR. Xmas was really bad and New Year wasnít much better for him. I also struggled. I have given him the option of bailing a number of times but he wonít hear of it. He has asked me to always write to him.
    He is very sweet yet very much a man and a gentleman. He would be the most intelligent person I have ever personally met and he has very refined and cultured. He has been in a long term relationship in the past. He has nobody in his life now. Broke up with a woman a few months before we met. I did meet a number of his friends and this fact was confirmed. He has no children. We live 14,000 miles apart.
    Sometimes I feel like throwing myself on the ground and asking for a miracle! It feels that this is some sort of universal cruel joke on both of us.
    Today I feel OK but sometimes the separation and the longing is too much. Reading the posts on this site has really helped. All my friends donít understand. I am seeing a therapist for husband related problems and she does not understand either about how I feel with the Jon situation.
    The whole thing with Jon goes very slow. As I said he is very British and has been hurt in the past. I feel if we could get our feelings more out in the open then it would help. I want him to ask me to come back. If he did I would. But we would have to discuss how we would feel about this because of the separation again. Nothing happened between while there but would have if circumstances were right.
    I truly never thought I would ever love anyone again. It has come as a surprise to me. I thought that I would remain in my misery until I was free! Some days I feel like an idiot to feel this way. But how long can one live in an emotional desert?
    Right now I just need some support. Any comments would be welcomed.

  2. #2
    Slow Worm's Avatar
    Slow Worm is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helena View Post
    love affair with England .... in particular London.
    Greetings from London

    I hate the fact he is younger though. Really bugs me.
    Why??



    It looks as if you have three issues arising here:

    - your objection to his being younger.
    We can't help much there - this site is full of people who don't see anything wrong with age gaps in relationships.

    - your being unhappily married
    Other Americans who know more than I do about divorce settlements in the USA might be helpful over that. Would you really be left with nothing?

    - his views, and practicalities for him
    You don't make it clear where he stands on this. What does he want? If you obtained a divorce, would he want marriage? If you just left your husband and suddenly turned up at Heathrow, would he be delighted to have you move in with him, be horrified, or somewhere in between? Would you having 'no career and no money' matter much?

    SW
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  3. #3
    SheLikesKitties's Avatar
    SheLikesKitties is offline OW/YM 21YR GAP
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    Hello!

    I would say that a 10 year difference is practically no difference at all, specially since he is not mentioning any desire to have children, which would require a younger woman. Don't mind the age difference, it really does not matter. There are people here with a 20+ gap and we manage fine.

    The rest of the issues are cause of concern though.

    You are not free.

    Your husband is 82. He could perfectly well live 8 or 10 years more, science is wonderful for extending people's lives. If your husband has seen that you end up with nothing if you leave him, you have to either resign yourself to start from zero at age 60, or put up with your marriage for 10 more years.

    You could continue having an affair with your British guy, running the risk of being found out by your husband and left with nothing, or the risk that your YM decides he wants a more local relationship if he feels love-deprived.

    Is there any way you could salvage your marriage? Your husband must have had some positive attributes that made you fall in love with him in the first place.

    I wish you wisdom for this tricky situation.
    Last edited by SheLikesKitties; 01-19-2015 at 10:42 AM.
    You know it's love when the pain of being apart is greater than the pain of being together.

  4. #4
    degausser is offline Senior Member
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    Hello and Welcome.

    There are a few things Iím not clear on after your first post:

    1) Why exactly are you unable to leave your husband? Were you a stay at home parent? Did you have a prenup? How has he attempted to destroy you in the past?

    2) Have you and Jon discussed having feelings for each other? In one spot you said he was love-deprived and depressed, then said you wish you both could get your feelings out in the open, so I wasn't sure if youíd had that conversation yet.

    3) Why did you tell him your last trip was your goodbye to the UK?

  5. #5
    gorillagirl Guest
    i don't think there are 2 places on earth 14000 miles apart. perth to london, for example, is 14,470 km but only 8991 miles... please clarify.
    --
    so if your husband has you practically enslaved, how do you manage to travel so often? traveling costs a fortune..

    "Now here is the rub. I am married to a man 82 who is a brut. We sleep in separate rooms. I have tried to leave him a number of times but he has seen to it that I have nothing. No career. No money. He has been very clever. He would destroy me and has attempted to in the past when I have left. I am figuring now he will probably die at some stage. He has a heart condition. "
    Last edited by gorillagirl; 01-19-2015 at 08:26 PM.

  6. #6
    Helena is offline Neophyte
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    Thanks for the replies. I really appreciate it. Big wave to you too London!
    Reading the posts on the forum I have come around to seeing that the gap is really not much of an issue. It is all within me and something I will have to deal with.
    I wouldn't be left with nothing though barely enough to put a roof over my head and no income. Also with leaving I wouldn't have any money until settlement and he would play it out for as long as he could. He pulled this in the past and forced me to return. The court system is really stacked against women. A friend of mine has just been through it. She did really badly and out of the 15 year marriage he had only worked for 4 years and he managed to get he loins share. It is a common story here.
    Yes I was a stay at home mum and then my parents were ill. Followed closely by childless Aunty and Uncle. Had to put my father in nursing home and take care of mum. Then put aunty and uncle in nursing home and still take care of mum. They have all since died.
    Also my daughter has Aspergers. It has only been in the last few years we found out what the problem has been. In the last two years she has been better through diet and counselling. She still has melt downs.
    Together with that for many years husband looked as though he had prostrate cancer. That was on going for eight years. All testing made the PSA go higher etc. So very confusing. He was in a terrible state over it all.
    For a very long time I was run off my feet with it all. Hospitals, nursing homes, medical test results, daughters melt downs. I didn't have a life and was very stressed. But the responsibly all fell on me. Only have one brother who took off and left me with it all. It has only been in the last four years I have managed to surface a little.
    In the past I worked towards independence but husband sabotaged every attempt. At one stage I was building up to earning good money lecturing and before each one he would have a raging fight with me the night before or before I left. Also he encouraged me in the beginning to do my art......an exceptionally difficult field to earn from. When I was ready to step on the ladder and get a gallery there was more sabotaging from him. When a gallery director would ring and come to look at my work husband would have one of his turns. Also my family responsibilities hampered me for a good many years. Now I feel I have left my run too late with earning. We have a small business concern but that would be gone if I left.
    If husband died I would be OK. And yes he could live for another eight years. All this I have considered.
    Jon wants to be married. That is the one big thing with him it seems. I wouldn't move in with him though I would say he wouldn't mind if I stayed. Can only be in UK for three months but the longest I could get away with is about three weeks. I cannot get UK or EU passport.
    Feelings on Jon's side? By his words and actions, while in London and through emails I say he is very keen. But no open declaration by either of us. Though we do love and xxx at the end of each email. In the first six weeks while I was back he was coming on strong and opened up to me about how he was feeling. But I freaked when I saw how deep we were in this and said some really stupid things and hurt him. Then three weeks after I freaked again......all over my feelings which I was finding difficult to deal with......I told him that I thought that he was too busy to email me. I did retract that but on a number of occasions I have sent him mixed messages which have muddied the waters. Things are now recovering from me losing my nerve. My feelings were very raw back then having left Jon and the UK.
    Why did I say goodbye to UK? Nobody gets this but increasingly I have found it difficult to leave the UK and when I come back home I longed to be there again. Since the first day I was there I considered my real home. Come from strong Anglo Celt family background. It take me months to settle back here. I have tried to quit with my grand UK love affair a number of times but always return. This time I was determined to say goodbye for the foreseeable future or until husband dies. Money was also a consideration as it is getting expensive there. Also husband said no more travel.
    Can the marriage be salvaged? There is no intimacy and hasn't been for years. Though things are good between my husband and myself in terms of him not being a brut eg arguing, being nasty etc. They always are when he senses that I have totally disconnected from him. But yesterday he started on me a bit. Getting to me in terms of my interests and what he reads as me not caring about anything. No doubt he will build on this. It would be hard though to get to me as now days I just walk away and say I don't care what he does or what he threatens me with. And I long discovered it is all bluff and even more so at his age now.
    Husband was in the army and trained soldiers so in terms of manipulation he is quite the expert. Very clever. I would say he is close to being a narcissist but he is not a pathological liar. So he is only on the outer spectrum. He also has Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome and sometimes it is hard to tease these two conditions apart. I have been badly damaged by him and suffer from secondary PTS myself. This is why I closed down emotionally and why I have problems dealing with my feelings now that I can feel again. Normally it feels like I am frozen. I am talking to my therapist about these issues. Before I met Jon I had given up on everything. Just going through the motions of life. Looking at one day getting some permanent peace when husband dies. Living alone and never having a relationship again. That is all I could see.
    One thing that I can see is some part in me doesn't really want to go down this path and with whatever little life force it has left it hooked onto Jon. Something similar happened some years back that saved me. It has crossed my mind that it is almost like a trick of my mind to get me to live. It is like my old three legged cat. When I took her off my bed at night her only front leg would grabbed whatever she could. She loved being on my bed probably as much as I love being in the UK!
    Ideally I would like an affair with Jon to see how it goes. I haven't tried him out sexually. I am very keen to. As much as compatibility is concerned this is important that this side works. Sometimes it all falls down in the bedroom. That was one thing that worked well in my marriage. Of course all that has been gone for years now. I am just the cook, the cleaner and the carer now.
    Can I get away with it? I would say probably yes. Besides the idea of sharing a city that I know and love with someone that I love is tempting. Just two problems. I would like Jon to ask me to return and I need to get husband to let me go again. The last one is the big issue. I think a few hints to Jon would see him jump at me coming back. However, the earliest I could get back there would be May due to my commitments.
    My other consideration, which isn't rational is that since the beginning of last year I had a strong feeling that UK isn't a safe place to be. I can't shake this feeling nor override it. Of course now that events have been unfolding it has made sense. But I keep on feeling that there is something more. That something really big is coming down the pike. I really hope I am wrong. I can't get to the bottom of this one. I only have until the 3rd of Febuary to book early bird flight. Otherwise it is going to cost a lot more and will cut my stay a lot shorter.
    Each day I expect things to end between me and Jon but he is still there with me. He could met someone else as we all could. Though I have never met anyone like him and I think it is ditto for him. Still it has been a strain and he is very ill at the moment with the flu. He was very emotional before Xmas and very down. I had the strong feeling he desperately wanted me to be there. I think he ran himself down over it all. He was very up while I was with him. We had such a great time with loads of laughter and talking with lots of sexual sparks flying. It even lasted for a good while when I returned when he was coming on strong. Then he increasing has become down and glum. It seems we both haven't fully realised what we have gotten ourselves into with this LDR. I now can see we had both given up on things before we met.
    I just take things from day to day. I try not to have too many expectations. In fact I expect nothing to come of it in any way at the moment. But that changes day to day with me. I keep as busy as I can. Happiness after all is a fleeting thing!
    Thank you for the opportunity to share. It has actually done me a lot of good to write this all down and know that there are people out there to read it. I have done a lot of private writing on the subject and it did help to a point. Maybe in the end I will just write about it all!
    Cheers

  7. #7
    gorillagirl Guest
    helena, if you're 60, your daughter is likely 30. how did it take so long for her to be diagnosed with asperger's? this is condition obvious from childhood, usually in the first year or two of elementary school. early intervention is key in helping aspie's manage stress and day-to-day skills...how did your daughter fall through the cracks? i live with a guy with asperger's so i know what this is about...

    and why can't jon fly to you?
    Last edited by gorillagirl; 01-19-2015 at 10:14 PM.

  8. #8
    Helena is offline Neophyte
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    Australia here. So a long way to London!
    Aspergers apparently more difficult to pick up in girls. It is more pronounced in males. She is high functioning and pushed herself through things. Had taken her to many child psychologists to find answers but they never picked it. I am right on the edge of it but have a far amount of NT functioning. I was always told that daughter was a sensitive child. Also I was always at the school due to problems with her. Nobody picked it there either. I hadn't heard of it until the last few years.
    Last seven years I have received small amounts here and there from inheritance. Mother, then Aunty and then another uncle. Not enough for permanent escape but have managed to get away a number of times. Government super and army disability is good here. Always careful when travelling. Don't eat out nor drink. Not even coffee. It all helps. Also I hardly go out here except local. Almost never eat out or even go to the movies. Most expensive thing I do is go for a swim at the pool. Walking the dog is free! So cost of living is well down so can slowly save as well. I add this to my little pots of gold.
    At the moment though still feel like I should stick close to home. See how things go both with Jon and the world scene.
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  9. #9
    degausser is offline Senior Member
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    If you left him, wouldn't you be able to find a job?

  10. #10
    Helena is offline Neophyte
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    Yes it is possible. I have no qualifications though. Have good computer skills. Can do a lot of things.
    At this stage I am not sure what purpose it would serve other then plunged me into hardship. And would ensure I could not see Jon for a long time. With rent the way it is I would probably struggle just to pay for an Internet connection.
    Have looked at these options with therapist over the last year. I kinda feel like the hangman on the tarot right now. Just a tad down today.

  11. #11
    fiorinda's Avatar
    fiorinda is offline Senior Member
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    I used the 'can't afford to leave' story on myself for 10 years. In the end, I'm glad now I did, because of how things have turned out. I guess I just wasn't really ready before, because once I was ready, nothing could have stopped me! That was 5 years ago, and my standard of living is still massively lower than when I was married first time. But I'm far, far happier, married to the best man ever (who is 24 years younger than me).

    I wouldn't consider 10 years to even be an age gap when both parties are over 30.

    Helena, get a job, any job that you could realistically scrape by on, don't try to aim high, and just leave. Your happiness is as important as anyone else's. Even taking Jon out of this story, I think you should leave. Yes living on the breadline sucks bishop, but not as much as living with a man you don't love!

  12. #12
    Helena is offline Neophyte
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    That is such a wonderful thing Fiorinda. I am looking at what is available in the work line. Shop girl stuff is probably all that is opened for me. Retail is very tight these days. Though I can do anything but they all want some letters after your name these days.
    Been here before and I asked this before, would I exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? Cages are not good either are wars.
    Will continue on looking though. I have come to the end of the line.

  13. #13
    degausser is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helena View Post
    At this stage I am not sure what purpose it would serve other then plunged me into hardship.
    The purpose it would serve would be allowing you to take care of yourself, instead of being dependent on a man you dislike so much you're pretty much just waiting for him to die.

  14. #14
    SheLikesKitties's Avatar
    SheLikesKitties is offline OW/YM 21YR GAP
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    You have to armor yourself financially first.
    You can certainly work for 5, 10, 15 more years, and after that, what?
    You may be healthy but you do not know what health issues may pop up later on, that require money, or that could prevent you from working full time.

    I hate to be a downer but before loving Jon, you have to love yourself and make sure that little you is protected from serious hardship or poverty.

    Do not do anything until you have figured out your finances, including retirement, 100%.

    I left my husband of 18 years only after serious financial planning. I had never been independent before and I was not sure if I could manage. I paid my first utility bill at the age of 45. I had to move to a postage stamp sized apartment, I lost my weekend home, but I was able to comfortably keep my head above water. I was never under risk of hardship or poverty.

    I guess I am more afraid of poverty than of lovelessness.
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    You know it's love when the pain of being apart is greater than the pain of being together.

  15. #15
    fiorinda's Avatar
    fiorinda is offline Senior Member
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    Also ask yourself, how will you feel at the end of your life if you look back and realise you were miserable and living without love or joy for the latter part of it? I never for a single second regretted leaving my ex husband, even in the months when I had to borrow money to buy food for the last 2 weeks, even when I was pouring the contents of my penny jar into the cash counter at the bank so I could still get to work! My job isn't very well paid, and I support the 2 of us as my new husband is at university. But we are so happy. I'd rather eat lentils for the rest of my life with Lee than have stayed with my ex!! Hopefully that won't be necessary though, because when he graduates, my husband will be able to take care of me!!
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