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Thread: Opening up

  1. #1
    Mélusine is offline Neophyte
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    Opening up

    I am now ready to open up…

    I joined this site because I need support but it has taken me this long to feel I can tell my story...

    I feel I can open up because I have been reading a lot of entries and I now feel this is a good, non judgmental forum.

    Life created a lot of obstacles between me and my YM . We have not yet overcome them all but we know we want to be together in a committed relationship. Life has put me in the situation of being "the other woman". I hate it. So does he... We are both very unhappy about it.

    Our story is very complicated (soapy like!) and maybe the only way is to tell it in installments ( if I get the courage!!!). I don’t want to inflict on everybody a wall of words... Too hard to read....

    Can I tell my story that way, in bits? And has anybody been in a similar situation to mine?

  2. #2
    gorillagirl Guest
    so, your younger man had to marry a woman his own age but you're still lovers?

  3. #3
    Mélusine is offline Neophyte
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    Quote Originally Posted by gorillagirl View Post
    so, your younger man had to marry a woman his own age but you're still lovers?
    Three years ago we split up after being together for a year, because we both had great trouble coming to terms with the age difference. He went on after 6 months to meet somebody else, in a town he had to move to to find work. He entered into a de facto relationship. His new partner (his age) pushed him into moving in with her, as a solution to his visa problems. ( He comes from Pakistan, had come to Australia on a student visa and to keep his student visa had to pay a lot of money in education fees ).

    After 6 months he realized he had made a mistake: his new partner was not supportive and accepting of his cultural identity, in particular his strong spiritual values. A number of times he made contact with me to inquire how I was but did not really say why he was contacting me.I had eventually myself met somebody else.

    When I split up with the man I was then with , he told me what was really on his mind: he had come to the realization that he had made a mistake, that what we had together was real love. I need to say that I had offered to marry him to help him with the visa but he had turned me down, saying that he did not want to use me that way, that a visa was not a good reason to marry.

    But by the time he told me what was really going on in his life he had put in an application for permanent residence here with the new partner's support .

    I told him that there was no future anyway for us because of the age difference, that he had to try and make it work with his partner, just as he would if he had entered an arranged marriage in his home country. He had to let me get on with my life. I did tell him though that she had proposed to help him, that he should not feel he had used her and that if he was still unhappy in the relationship later on, after he got his permanent residence, he should just leave her and find somebody else.

    Another year went past during which I had another exclusive relationship that went nowhere. Last December he wrote to wish m a Happy Christmas and when he found out I was again on my own he asked to meet me to talk to me because I was his one true friend and he wanted my advice.

    I was very reluctant but we met and he told me he had got his residence. As soon as he had applied and looked like getting it, his partner had quit her job and become financially dependent on her! He then told me she had psychological problems, was alcoholic and he did not know what to do.

    She had also insisted they move in with her parents so they could save money on the rent. Her dream was for him to go out to work for her, for them to buy a house and for her to stay at home and have kids. He told me it had been very tough being responsible for all the bills and having to commute long distances for work whilst coming back to a partner who had no respect for his values. He had fallen into depression.

    At that point I realized that I still loved him, that I had not really forgotten him, even though I had not been aware of it.

    There were two issues troubling him. One, he felt indebted to her and did not want to leave her whilst she was suffering from anxiety and drinking. Two, because she is psychologically unstable, he was worried she would make trouble for him with the immigration department.

    So 6 months later, this is where he is at. He went back home for two weeks to see his parents he had not seen for two years. When he came back they stopped sleeping together. He told her he was unhappy in the relationship and wanted her to do something with the drinking problem. He managed to get her to see a counselor. He also has seen three immigration consultants all with a different story about the risks of her creating big difficulties for him, two saying he should wait until he gets citizenship (another 9 months...)

    There you have it. I am in a kind of secret long distance relationship, waiting for him to sort out the immigration issue and join me. Except it is complicated by "the other woman" and the fact that he is a Muslim at a time where there is growing hostility towards Muslims in Australia.

    I should add that we met in rather unusual circumstances. He did not go looking for an older woman. ( He was 29 and I 48 when we met). I did not go looking for a younger man. I should also add that he has strong religious beliefs and ethics for which I have a lot of respect. And that he is definitely not a fundamentalist!

    Sorry, this is such a long answer...

  4. #4
    SheLikesKitties's Avatar
    SheLikesKitties is offline OW/YM 21YR GAP
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    Hello! I moved your thread because I believe it will get more replies under Relationship Support.
    Mélusine likes this.
    You know it's love when the pain of being apart is greater than the pain of being together.

  5. #5
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    NY10 is offline Senior Member
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    First welcome. It sounds like you and the YM have a deep connection and bond. That is very important and special. He clearly is not happy with his current situation and wants out. He has communicated these issues with his current girlfriend so it's not like either of you are doing anything wrong and you do have a past together that might not be finished. It's complicated because of the immigration issue and one that he does have to be careful with and work out as to not create more problems for you. Him not wanting to marry you just to stay in the country shows his deep care and respect for you as a woman and the relationship you had, plus he contacts you to keep in touch and up to date on his current situation.

    As far as what he should do with the current girlfriend, it doesn't seem there is a loving healthy lasting relationship there. He shouldn't have to be forced to stay with someone he doesn't love and care about and to be honest, she seems to have serious issues that would only complicate things for him further.

    Is there anyway he can leave where he currently is and start over somewhere else and be done with her all together. Thank god she didn't get pregnant and trap him into staying and they aren't already married. He has a job and makes his own money but is there an out for him as far as where he is currently.

    It must be very hard for you to have to hear how hard things are for him and how sad he is when you care for him so much and wish there was more you could do for him.
    SheLikesKitties and Mélusine like this.

  6. #6
    SheLikesKitties's Avatar
    SheLikesKitties is offline OW/YM 21YR GAP
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    Hello Mélusine, welcome to Ageless. Your situation is indeed complicated. Giving advice and support in these forums is also complicated because we can only see your situation through what you tell us, and we pass it through the filter of our own experience and perspective. So the advice or comments given may be totally off target, so please do not take offense or feel discouraged by what I am going to say.

    I am married to a foreigner myself (I am Panamanian, 55, my husband is American, 34) so I know about immigration issues first hand. In our case he moved from the US to Panama, that is, from a 1st world country to a 3rd world country, when generally people go in the opposite direction. Your case is from 3rd world to 1st world and that always raises red flags in my mind, ...what if it's all for getting a visa/residency/citizenship?

    You have told us his story from what HE is telling YOU, do you know if what he tells you is true?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mélusine View Post
    His new partner pushed him into moving in with her, as a solution to his visa problems.
    Are you sure this was not the other way around? That he pushed to move in with her?

    he had come to the realization that he had made a mistake, that what we had together was real love. I need to say that I had offered to marry him to help him with the visa but he had turned me down, saying that he did not want to use me that way, that a visa was not a good reason to marry.

    But by the time he told me what was really going on in his life he had put in an application for permanent residence here with the new partner's support .
    So despite the fact that he realized he made a mistake, he still used her for visa support?

    I did tell him though that she had proposed to help him, that he should not feel he had used her and that if he was still unhappy in the relationship later on, after he got his permanent residence, he should just leave her and find somebody else.
    Sorry, but he did use her, and leaving her after getting his residence would just prove it. Although IMHO she would be better off without him.

    I was very reluctant but we met and he told me he had got his residence. As soon as he had applied and looked like getting it, his partner had quit her job and become financially dependent on her!
    Maybe she realized he was using her and she decided that she might as well benefit from the situation.

    He then told me she had psychological problems, was alcoholic and he did not know what to do.
    So he says.

    he was worried she would make trouble for him with the immigration department.
    So he needs to have a plan B, in case plan A does not work.

    So 6 months later, this is where he is at. He went back home for two weeks to see his parents he had not seen for two years. When he came back they stopped sleeping together.
    This sounds like his parents set their foot down, and he may have an arranged bride in Pakistan waiting for his resident status.

    He also has seen three immigration consultants all with a different story about the risks of her creating big difficulties for him, two saying he should wait until he gets citizenship (another 9 months...)
    Again, the visa issue comes up.

    There you have it. I am in a kind of secret long distance relationship, waiting for him to sort out the immigration issue and join me.
    I would advise you to wait and see... but keep your options open, date other men. The fact that you had two relationships that did not work out does not mean that you have to settle for this guy, who is in my book, a user. If he wants to marry you after he is a legal resident/citizen, that is great... but sorry to say, the way you described things makes this sound fishy. How come that the suddenly realized she did not share his values, how come she suddenly became an alcoholic, how come she suddenly became unstable.

    Again, please disregard my words if you feel I am TOTALLY OFF TARGET. I wish you happiness and the best of things and I feel horrible for being such a cynic.
    Last edited by SheLikesKitties; 06-27-2014 at 12:49 AM.
    Pickles, gorillagirl, Air and 1 others like this.
    You know it's love when the pain of being apart is greater than the pain of being together.

  7. #7
    Mélusine is offline Neophyte
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    Quote Originally Posted by SheLikesKitties View Post
    Hello! I moved your thread because I believe it will get more replies under Relationship Support.
    Thank you!

  8. #8
    Mélusine is offline Neophyte
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY10 View Post
    First welcome. It sounds like you and the YM have a deep connection and bond. That is very important and special. He clearly is not happy with his current situation and wants out. He has communicated these issues with his current girlfriend so it's not like either of you are doing anything wrong and you do have a past together that might not be finished. It's complicated because of the immigration issue and one that he does have to be careful with and work out as to not create more problems for you. Him not wanting to marry you just to stay in the country shows his deep care and respect for you as a woman and the relationship you had, plus he contacts you to keep in touch and up to date on his current situation.

    As far as what he should do with the current girlfriend, it doesn't seem there is a loving healthy lasting relationship there. He shouldn't have to be forced to stay with someone he doesn't love and care about and to be honest, she seems to have serious issues that would only complicate things for him further.

    Is there anyway he can leave where he currently is and start over somewhere else and be done with her all together. Thank god she didn't get pregnant and trap him into staying and they aren't already married. He has a job and makes his own money but is there an out for him as far as where he is currently.

    It must be very hard for you to have to hear how hard things are for him and how sad he is when you care for him so much and wish there was more you could do for him.
    Thank you for your insights. Yes, I think his current girlfriend has been using him, using his vulnerability because of the visa issue and the fact that he is a very caring person. And like you I am so glad she did not fall pregnant to trap him. Is there a way out for him? Well I think there is, in so far as it has now been 6 months since he signalled to her there were problems with the relationship. I forgot to say that she quit her job without consulting him first... I personally think he could just walk out now but the issue is the trouble she could make with immigration. As I wrote, he has had conflicting legal advice.

    He did nothing wrong because he was no longer with me when he applied for residence through his de facto relationship but there have been some ugly cases of people being stripped of their residence and deported because they were found not to be of "good character". Muslims these days are especially under pressure to demonstrate that they are " good Muslims". I understand his fears even though I think that he would be OK even if she did call for a review from the immigration department.

    The only 100% safe way is for him to wait until he qualifies for citizenship and gets it but it is another 9-10 months... Some well meaning people tell me I should not wait that long but as you said we have a very special bond. So maybe I know that I have to wait, but it is very tough.

  9. #9
    Mélusine is offline Neophyte
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    Quote Originally Posted by SheLikesKitties View Post
    Hello Mélusine, welcome to Ageless. Your situation is indeed complicated. Giving advice and support in these forums is also complicated because we can only see your situation through what you tell us, and we pass it through the filter of our own experience and perspective. So the advice or comments given may be totally off target, so please do not take offense or feel discouraged by what I am going to say.

    I am married to a foreigner myself (I am Panamanian, 55, my husband is American, 34) so I know about immigration issues first hand. In our case he moved from the US to Panama, that is, from a 1st world country to a 3rd world country, when generally people go in the opposite direction. Your case is from 3rd world to 1st world and that always raises red flags in my mind, ...what if it's all for getting a visa/residency/citizenship?

    You have told us his story from what HE is telling YOU, do you know if what he tells you is true?


    Are you sure this was not the other way around? That he pushed to move in with her?


    So despite the fact that he realized he made a mistake, he still used her for visa support?


    Sorry, but he did use her, and leaving her after getting his residence would just prove it. Although IMHO she would be better off without him.


    Maybe she realized he was using her and she decided that she might as well benefit from the situation.


    So he says.


    So he needs to have a plan B, in case plan A does not work.


    This sounds like his parents set their foot down, and he may have an arranged bride in Pakistan waiting for his resident status.


    Again, the visa issue comes up.


    I would advise you to wait and see... but keep your options open, date other men. The fact that you had two relationships that did not work out does not mean that you have to settle for this guy, who is in my book, a user. If he wants to marry you after he is a legal resident/citizen, that is great... but sorry to say, the way you described things makes this sound fishy. How come that the suddenly realized she did not share his values, how come she suddenly became an alcoholic, how come she suddenly became unstable.

    Again, please disregard my words if you feel I am TOTALLY OFF TARGET. I wish you happiness and the best of things and I feel horrible for being such a cynic.
    Don't apologize for being a cynic! That's what a forum is for: getting a variety of views... You have to play devil's advocate...

    I think you are totally off target but with the minimal information I gave, it is not hard to see how you could interpret things that way.

    You are saying what some friends said to me when were first met: he is after your money. ; he is after your visa. I feel that this is because that they were profoundly ageist and could not imagine that there can be genuine love across a big age divide. And of course because there are users and ******** out there and plenty of them.

    How do I know he is not lying ? Because we have communicated over years. We stopped being in contact for months , then reconnected. Why? Not because we wanted to get something out of each other but because we has that very strong bond, love.

    We have communicated in a way that enabled me to get to know him very well and for him to get me very well to the point that he decided he wants to have a committed relationship with me. Liars, manipulators give themselves away. They cannot sustain deep communication.

    From the many things we talked about into the night, I got to know him. We even talked about about how some Pakistanis use non-Pakistani women for sex then go back home to marry because it actually happened to a friend of mine but a very long time ago.

    I know what kind of man he is, his code of ethics and he is not lying. It took me a long time to accept that he could love me like this but now I know he does.

    Thank you for taking the time to respond to my post!
    Last edited by Mélusine; 06-27-2014 at 02:53 AM.

  10. #10
    SheLikesKitties's Avatar
    SheLikesKitties is offline OW/YM 21YR GAP
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    Mélusine:
    Thank you for not getting mad at me.
    The only cure for relationship naysayers is time. I think that most of us in AGRs face skepticism at one point.
    Nine months is not really a long time, when the wait is worthwhile.

    It seems that getting Australian citizenship is easy. I am amazed! It has taken Nick and I getting married (living together does not count), countless marriage interviews, a certificates from the police from his hometown, and tons of money just to get him a green card and soon, a 10 year resident visa... if we pass the next marriage interview.
    You know it's love when the pain of being apart is greater than the pain of being together.

  11. #11
    Mélusine is offline Neophyte
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    Quote Originally Posted by SheLikesKitties View Post
    Mélusine:
    Thank you for not getting mad at me.
    The only cure for relationship naysayers is time. I think that most of us in AGRs face skepticism at one point.
    Nine months is not really a long time, when the wait is worthwhile.

    It seems that getting Australian citizenship is easy. I am amazed! It has taken Nick and I getting married (living together does not count), countless marriage interviews, a certificates from the police from his hometown, and tons of money just to get him a green card and soon, a 10 year resident visa... if we pass the next marriage interview.
    As far as I know its is possible to apply for citizenship in Australia only after a year after getting permanent residence (equivalent to a green card) so long as you have been living in Australia for at least 4 years in total .Then it seems it takes between 3 and 6 months for the application to be processed. My YM has been here for 8 years. So he will soon be able to apply.

  12. #12
    gorillagirl Guest
    Australia seems to have a very liberal immigration policy. So, technically, this woman is his fiancee? I highly recommend you stay away from him and all his drama (and ask him to stop contacting you) until he's got his permanent visa and is single. Just take a huge break and do your own life. Forget about him for now. NOTHING good will come from your involvement with him now. It's less than a year until he gets his visa. Time goes quickly. Your time will pass much more quickly and more peacefully without any involvement. Tell him you care but ask him to leave you alone and only contact you once he moves away from her. Live your life. Keep meeting other men. He is not your man until he's free of any and all obligations to the other woman. This is just drama, drama, drama. Don't choose drama.

    https://www.immi.gov.au/migrants/fam...as-partner.htm
    Last edited by gorillagirl; 06-27-2014 at 12:40 PM.

  13. #13
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    Welcome to Ageless!

    I'm glad you feel comfortable enough to share more details of your situation.

    The thing which gives me pause is not that this man is younger, or in Oz on a visa...it's that he's become entangled in a situation which involves a third party. Let him resolve that, on his own, without your assistance. He is, as they say, "old enough and ugly enough" to work this out on his own. He figured a way into it, he'll figure a way out.

    Once he's got himself out of the mess he got himself into, then see how it goes.

    The thing I'd pay attention to at this point is how much responsibility he takes for the situation and what he's learned from it, as opposed to whatever reasons he may present for how he got tricked into it and/or why he can't do anything to resolve it.

    MM
    "Our past is a story existing only in our minds. Look, analyze, understand, and forgive. Then, as quickly as possible, chuck it." ~ Marianne Williamson

  14. #14
    Mélusine is offline Neophyte
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    Thank you to Gorillagirl, MissMuffins and the other contributors to the thread.

    I am going on holidays for a fortnight. It will give me the distance I need to reflect on all your comments!

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