Mom/toddler thrown from plane

I took my son almost everywhere with me when he was a baby - planes, restaurants, museums, art galleries and so on. I did this for two reasons - it was the only way I could go, and I think our society is very child-averse. I don't think kids learn how to behave in public places if they're never in them.

But this means making choices that are not unrealistic. Those family friendly restaurants are usually places no sane adult would step inside - so we went to restaurants that are not typically children's places, but which are likely to be a little more tolerant. Chinese restaurants always have babies and kids in them, so they seemed more appropriate than the silver service, white linen table cloth type places.

I always took loads of toys, snacks, and as he got older, books, crayons and small puzzles and the like.

Flights for us were always an unbelievable amount of work for me, keeping him occupied and out of the wildly irritating category, but I figure that's the gig.

I like to see kids integrated into all aspects of our life, I think it's humanizing and healthy.

I will admit though that there are times when the parenting skills, or lack thereof, on display are so terrible, you want to intervene. Kids running around in cafes and restaurants is inconsiderate, dangerous and a horrible ordeal for the staff.

Kids making a tremendous racket which is out of scale with the surrounding noise is also inconsiderate. You have to teach kids about appropriate voice - we taught Dev that he needed a "restaurant voice" and it didn't take him long to get it.

If as a baby he was wailing and unable to settle, I'd take him for a walk until he calmed down.

These are things you have to do if you want your kids integrated into daily life.

But at the same time, other people have to be aware that kids don't come out of the uterus with perfect table manners or the ability to stop crying when they're distressed.

I've been on a plane with my son as a toddler where he screamed and wriggled and flailed for hours. I think we were about halfway between England and Canada when he fell asleep. As I recall, I sat and wept for about 10 minutes, I was so worn out and miserable.

Before he feel asleep, we had gone through lots of rough air and I got a lot of grief from the attendants because he wasn't strapped in. The only way to stop the screams being ear splitting was to walk him about the cabin. No one could have stopped the crying, it's the way toddlers are - and all the things that would normally work, were out of the question because we had to have our seat belts on.

Those flight attendants weren't exactly sympathetic. I'm quite sure it was tireseome to them and the other passengers, but it just couldn't be helped and I didn't appreciate at all being made to feel like a bad person.

The state I was in, I'd probably have punched someone who advised me to drug him.

Excellent example, bijou. Even though I don't have kids, I empathize when people are going through that and if the parents just plain suck at parenting, I still empathize - but for the kid!

I'll never forget the time I was on a long flight with a screaming baby on the plane, and everyone was complaining, and I was beginning to get tired of the noise, and the person next to me said, sincerely, "Oh that poor baby!" It really hit home for me.

[RobsGirl]

Have people ever thought about exactly what a little baby DOES go through on a plane? The pressurization, esp. if they're teething, has to be torturous I would think.

When I used to work at the hotels in banquets, I knew two women that were former airline stewardesses. It used to be a job worth working (moneywise), but over the years, the pay scale has been greatly reduced with all the airlines restructuring, some going bankrupt and others getting bought out. Then there are the no-frills cheapo airlines like Jet Blue. The shifts are long. And with short flights, they have to do more rushed tidying up of the aircraft interior between the flights. Travelers toss the magazines around, there are blankets to fold and put away and trash to put up. On the flights, the stewards and stewardesses are constantly on the move. One one long flight, I've watched them as they roll out the carts of snacks, soda and coffee down the aisles, then by the time they are done, then have to repeat the route to pick up the trash. As they pick up the trash, there usually are requests for blankets and magazines. Then it's time for the meal cart. They are mostly on their feet and are required to look poised and perfect as the airplane moves in the air turbulence. All of this and I never see any sincere thank yous from the passengers as they exit. And as with the pilots, the airplane staff frequently sleep out of town in shared hotel rooms. It's not a glamorous life.

Maybe it's time for that stewardess to find a new job. But I do have some sympathy for her if she did overreact.

And for all the parents that do make the effort to keep their kids well behaved in public, I thank you.

I'd like some opinions from parents: Now that you know that a little bit of Benedryl can safely quiet a screaming infant or a difficult toddler on a plane, would you consider carrying some with you and using it on your child?



PS: Molly, the term "baby" applies to both infants and toddlers.

Originally Posted by bijou

I took my son almost everywhere with me when he was a baby - planes, restaurants, museums, art galleries and so on. I did this for two reasons - it was the only way I could go, and I think our society is very child-averse. I don't think kids learn how to behave in public places if they're never in them.

But this means making choices that are not unrealistic. Those family friendly restaurants are usually places no sane adult would step inside - so we went to restaurants that are not typically children's places, but which are likely to be a little more tolerant. Chinese restaurants always have babies and kids in them, so they seemed more appropriate than the silver service, white linen table cloth type places.

I always took loads of toys, snacks, and as he got older, books, crayons and small puzzles and the like.

Flights for us were always an unbelievable amount of work for me, keeping him occupied and out of the wildly irritating category, but I figure that's the gig.

I like to see kids integrated into all aspects of our life, I think it's humanizing and healthy.

I will admit though that there are times when the parenting skills, or lack thereof, on display are so terrible, you want to intervene. Kids running around in cafes and restaurants is inconsiderate, dangerous and a horrible ordeal for the staff.

Kids making a tremendous racket which is out of scale with the surrounding noise is also inconsiderate. You have to teach kids about appropriate voice - we taught Dev that he needed a "restaurant voice" and it didn't take him long to get it.

If as a baby he was wailing and unable to settle, I'd take him for a walk until he calmed down.

These are things you have to do if you want your kids integrated into daily life.

But at the same time, other people have to be aware that kids don't come out of the uterus with perfect table manners or the ability to stop crying when they're distressed.

I've been on a plane with my son as a toddler where he screamed and wriggled and flailed for hours. I think we were about halfway between England and Canada when he fell asleep. As I recall, I sat and wept for about 10 minutes, I was so worn out and miserable.

Before he feel asleep, we had gone through lots of rough air and I got a lot of the grief from the attendants because he wasn't strapped in. The only way to stop the screams being ear splitting was to walk him about the cabin. No one could have stopped the crying, it's the way toddlers are - and all the things that would normally work, were out of the question because we had to have our seat belts on.

Those flight attendants weren't exactly sympathetic. I'm quite sure it was tireseome to them and the other passengers, but it just couldn't be helped and I didn't appreciate at all being made to feel like a bad person.

The state I was in, I'd probably have punched someone who advised me to drug him.

GREAT POST! I to would take my children almost everywhere. Only a few places I did not. How do you teach a child to behave in public places IF you don't teach them WHILE they are younger?
When We would get home from an event and the kids were about 2 to 4 i would ask them what did you like about today. They would tell me.

NOW maybe this is a lil anal..but I would make the kids play a game with me It was called Follow mama duck. It would go youngest to oldest. ( I was also raising a few other family members kids as well as babysitting) I would say to them oh what GOOD little ducks you are!! They would walk in a line through out shopping and so on. At the end of the day was a reward for such good behavior.
I would also on long trips make special bags, filled with sticker books, coloring pages crayons travel games, and other fun things as well. When I traveled on the plane with them they were AWESOME. Other parents told me wow I should have done that to. So I would reach in my bag and hand them an extra one i would carry..

It comes with training. Its not just an adult world..If we are not teaching children then who is?? Remember folks..these kids will be taking care of US when we are old.

Originally Posted by Chatterbox

I'd like some opinions from parents: Now that you know that a little bit of Benedryl can safely quiet a screaming infant or a difficult toddler on a plane, would you consider carrying some with you and using it on your child?



PS: Molly, the term "baby" applies to both infants and toddlers.

Well I'm not sure "safely" is right - it's still putting unneeded medication into a tiny human just for your own convenience, or the convenience of those around you.

If the child is so distressed that they're making themselves sick, maybe. But probably not.

Nursing a baby is much better in a million ways, but if that's not possible or not working, I don't know. I never did use drugs that weren't prescribed for my son and I'm not sure what circumstances would cause me to.

Chatter,
I would never do this unless my child was sick or had allergies. We have enough drug issues with adults taking drugs and teens that I think saying *here take this* when a child is not sick is teaching them its okay to take drugs, to become hypochondriacs and more.

It comes from training your child to listen and obey in public and for adults to learn tolerance. We were kids once also

[RobsGirl]

Three out of four of my kids have bad allergies just like I do, two of them take Benadryl once a day, esp. in the summer, the other one takes perscription Claritin, just like me. I never gave them the stuff to make them quiet, I gave it to them so they could BREATH (try being allergic to Pine trees and living in Maine lol).

Originally Posted by Celtish

To be perfectly honest, benadryl isn't going to alleviate the symptoms of pressurization. All it's going to do is konk the kid out. If the child is stuffy and you're worried about their little ears, children's tussin works much better (that's robitussin for head colds, NOT coughs, unless they actually have a cough).

Here's the thing, for those of you who would rather be pissed off at babies than understand.

The ear in a grownup is connected to the throat. There is a place for inner ear fluid to drain once the ears become pressurized. Babies are actually born without that connection; their little ears are completely sealed off from their throats. This will eventually connect somewhere between age 1 -4, generally, but if you hear of a toddler having to have tubes but in their ears, or is subject to a lot of ear infections, this is why. They get a cold, fluid develops, and there's no where for it to go, so it sits and causes an infection. Now, even the most diligent of parent cannot foresee when their child is going to have fluid in its ears, simply because its something that happens...a cold, bath water, a viral infection, even teething can make a baby stuffy and cause fluid.

Okay, so just imagine, you're a little guy, not feeling all that great because your mouth hurts...and now your eardrums feel like they're gonna burst. It's PAINFUL. No wonder they scream. Bendaryl won't alleviate this. Benadryl blocks histamine, which is good for rashes, not for reducing fluid. If you REALLY want to help the kid, something to turn that fluid absolutely runny, like tussin is probably a better idea, but even then, if it's from a latent infection, it's just gonna hurt. And getting them to swallow helps, but not as much as it would an older child or an adult.

So yes. Poor baby, absolutely. Rather than thinking about how it's inconveniencing YOU, remember there is a little human being that's in a lot of pain, and a mother feeling helpless and stressed out about it. As much as a screaming baby upsets those around her, it is 1000 times worse for the mother.

God, people, show a bit of compassion and understanding.

Oh and incidently, kids should be seen AND heard. They are not props. They are not little carbon copies of mommy and daddy. They are themselves, in their own right, and they are truly amazing. If you limit the children in your life, you are denying yourself an incredible experience, and frankly, I feel sad for you.

Excellent post, Celtish. You are so right.

Originally Posted by Celtish

Oh and incidently, kids should be seen AND heard. They are not props. They are not little carbon copies of mommy and daddy. They are themselves, in their own right, and they are truly amazing. If you limit the children in your life, you are denying yourself an incredible experience, and frankly, I feel sad for you.

When a baby is first born, it doesn't know how to convey what it wants to its parents, so a baby cries in distress. Crying is the only language it knows. Not all crying means that a baby or child is in physical pain. Crying is also a demand for attention. And sometimes, this demand is frivolous. There are a good number of spoiled children where the parents have conditioned the children to cry or throw a tantrum every time they want something or something doesn't go their way. While a child needs to be nurtured, it also needs to understand that the world doesn't revolve around it. A child needs to be able to function WITHIN society and later on, the same applies when they are an adult. I was disciplined properly as a child. I was always well behaved in public and I turned out fine. No nightmares or phobias. At the dinner table, our parents encouraged us to think and talk intelligently and to be good listeners. Silly prattle was discouraged. And what happened was later on as adults, we don't need to talk for the sake of talking and filling up empty air space. No one in my family drives and talks on the cellphone at the same time and we are fine by ourselves in a car listening to the radio. In fact, no one in the family is a phone junkie.

Also, I believe that children and young people crave limitations in their life. They need boundaries set by their parents. They need to learn to respect their parents and other adults, especially their school teachers. Knowledge is power. It's really not much different than what The Dog Whisperer guy explains about how our pet dogs need pack structure and a mission/job to be happy. My parents were the clear alphas in my household. And as children, our job was to be good students and learn as much as we could. Rewards were being allowed to watch tv, to have pets, to get a bicycle. We also had our choice of music lessons. I think that my sisters and I turned out fairly well. Meanwhile, without discipline, I knew many kids that spend most of their free time in high school drinking and carousing.

And I do feel that I've had a lot of good fun in my life. Fun is not all about running wild and shrieking loudly at a park or getting every toy on their Xmas wish list. My parents taught me how to cook, enjoy a good book, I can draw and paint passably well, I used to play chamber music and in my 20's I played in a couple of local rock bands. I was taught to channel my excess energy and leisure time into productive activities. I am lucky that I never thought barhopping was something to be done on a regular basis, that getting drunk on the weekends with friends was a sign of a successful adult social life. I am also rather proud that I didn't have sex as a teenager.

And I don't need to have children of my own as I have two nieces so far. I know that my YM and I could be terrific parents and that we could raise extraordinary children together, but that is not our calling. Actually my kids would be upset that I wouldn't allow the purple dinosaur into our lives (but they would get Alice in Wonderland, Winnie-the-Pooh and The Hobbit read aloud to them), no video games but bike rides instead and many trips to the public library, and the girls wouldn't be allowed to wear thongs and lowrider jeans until their were out on their own. No sodas either. Also I do feel that I support other peoples' children in that my property taxes are very high and they support a very good public school system in my town.

And I would love there to be a study done comparing well behaved children and poorly behaved ones and to see how they do in later life as adults. I would think that the successful happy adults would be the ones that were parented well (the well behaved children).

[Strwbrries]

Man oh man where to start.

First of I agree with most of what Bijou said about exposing kids to certain aspects of society at a young age, I wouldnt do it with an infant but with a toddler I would but I always leave when my child gets out of hand, its my child and non one should be incovenience by my cranky kid but me.

The way the pediatrician explained to me any child under the age of two is considered a baby...once theyre two theyre considered a toddler. Dont ask me why but apparently there is a distinction.

Children should be seen and heard but only in the right environment. Say a park, at school, at home, in family oriented places but there are places where kids need to be taught that politeness sometimes means being quiet..say like in church. When I was religious (roman Catholic) our church had two rooms, the main church room where mass was said and the Madonna room which was on the left side of the main room and seperated by sound proof glass. Mass could be seen through the glass and heard through speakers and families with small infants were encourage to use that room. The worst parents were this one couple who refused to go into the madonna room. They had two toddlers and 1 screaming baby and they let those toddlers run up and down the aisle. Some parents can be very very self absorbed.

When Im on the phone my kids know to not interrupt my phone call unless its dire. When I have a friend over for coffee my kids know that theyre not suppose to be jumping up and down, interrupting conversation just because they heard something that they didnt understand and want to comment. The conversation is adult, its not for them. Now if it was a family function with relatives then it would different but under certain circumstances children should be seen and not heard. That is a social skill that children need to learn because it is a social skill that will get repeated again and again once they start growing up. Say like, at school when they need to stop talking to their friends and listen to the teacher or say at work when theyre in a meeting. And if they are not taught this function at home first...they wont ever learn it. Then you will end up with notes being sent saying "little ruby doesnt stop talking to her friends during class". If you dont teach respect for others when they are very little then they wont respect others later on.


Let me tell you a bit of my history with children. At 18 I was raising my youngest sister and my younger brother, before that age I was taking care of them. By 19 I had 1 newborn (my child with my exhusband) and my 5 year old brother and my 9 year old sister. When I had my siblings they were well behaved, respectful, did well in school. When my brother was 8 and my sister 12 they went back full time to my mother. Man, what a mess...because they lacked structure in their lives they pretty much did what they wanted. My mother didnt want to crush their little personalities, she wanted to let them express themselves. Apparently as my mother got older her style of raising kids went from Iron Fist to Lazy ***. I have gotten to see first hand how kids change when there is no authority figure in their lives to instill in them social skills. My youngest sister was with me long enough to learn enough but my brother, lets just say enough but not enough..he's a bit rough.

Now I am 35 ( god..im 35 now ) and I have a 15 1/2 year old, 13 year old, 11 year old, a 7 year old and a 3 month old.

I teach them what I need them to learn to be functioning adults, from how to hold a fork, to how to cook dinner (the three older ones cook dinner for the whole family 1 day out of the week), how to clean, do laundry, when they leave my home as adults they will know how to take care of themselves. I also teach them about having respect for others around them, to be polite around adults, to knowing there is an "indoor voice" and an "outdoor voice". The malls are not a playground to run around in, a trip to the grocery store wont get you a candy if you beg, stomp or throw yourself on the ground screaming, as a matter of fact my kids all learned by the age of 5 that if they asked for something and I say no..they dont ask a second time. If they act up there is a saying that we all say "Thats not cute, thats not funny and thats not clever...cut it out."

In return, I let them be who they want to be. From the Emo stage that my eldest girl just grew out of, to the Hip Hop pants dragging off the butt and rinestone earrings that my son is wearing...lets not forget the dyed blue and green hair that he had in the 6th grade. My 11 year old is preppy violin playing roman catholic and the rest of the family are atheist.

You allow your kids to be who they want to be, and you let them try on as many personas as they want in order for them to find the one that fits them best but you let them do it within bounderies. For instance no tats or piercings until they are 18.

And unless, you have raised a child 24/7, you really dont know how much they take out of you and how much they give back. I love my neices and nephews but Im not raising them 24/7. They visit then they go home with their parents and if I didnt have children of my own or had never raised a child before I wouldnt know a hill of beans about what the reality of raising a kid is, in comparison to just being exposed to them.

And even though my best friend loves her dog and calls it her kid, its not a kid. You can leave your 2 year old dog at home while youre at work but you cant leave your 2 year old child at home alone or someone will call the cops. And no matter how cute it looks in a sweater in the end its still just a dog.

All in all, I have sympathy for some parents who like Bijou actually parent their kids and do everything that they can to keep their children entertained and quiet and behaved...its the ones who sit there and think its cute or "hey theyre just kids" or act like their entitled to have everyone coddle their little monster because they do, that makes the rest of us who do try, look bad when our kids break down. Maybe if there were less parents with the attitude that just because they have kids their entitled to some extra privledges from everyone, maybe then there would more adults willing to cut all of us parents a break when our kids do have a meltdown.

Originally Posted by Celtish

Here's the thing, for those of you who would rather be pissed off at babies than understand.

I dont get mad at the babies, usually the parents. But then again, not really mad, just irritated. I do know that they're suffering too. But i'm an impatient person, with little tolerance for the noise of kids. I admit it...I have a fault. I dont mean the giggling, cooing, or yelling a little bit for food or something...i mean the neverending screaming and crying. And i DO know that the poor baby is suffering.

If you limit the children in your life, you are denying yourself an incredible experience, and frankly, I feel sad for you.

I'm not sure what this means. I didnt have any children because i didnt want any. I loved my nieces and nephews when they were little (and now!), and i love their kids. But i'm just not a "kid person." I dont see anything wrong with it. I'm not mean to anyone's children, and i certainly am glad for someone else who has kids and is happy. It's just not for me.

I'm lost. But that's okay!

[Rozie]

I haven't read all the posts here, but as a pediatrician, I found this story amazing and wanted to weigh in. First of all, we have very little detail on this event, but from what the news story portrayed, I'm inclined to think that this flight attendant overreacted. I think she was completely out of line to suggest that the mother medicate the baby. Its simply not within the scope of her expertise or practice. I have, however, suggested that parents carry Benadryl to use as a back up, in the event that the usual methods of soothing an infant or toddler fail. This is done for the child's benefit, not the passengers who can't tolerate the youngster's behavior.

Now having said that, I am going to stick my neck out here and say that what some parents put their little one's through in the interest of "family fun", often appalls me. Toddlers don't do well with changes of routine, large crowds, enclosed spaces or in places where they have to be quiet.
When I have parents calling me for an "emergency" antibiotic because they have a little one with a draining ear and can't miss their morning flight to Disney World, where that little one is going to have to sit in a stroller for hour on end in the hot sun in the long lines the next day because they can't disappoint the other kids, I just sort of throw up my hands and wonder what happened to priorities.

Parents have a really hard time saying "No." And although I recognize that sometimes people have to fly with little ones, I wonder what happened to the notion of putting kids needs first? Or teaching older children that sometimes we have to sacrifice for someone in more need. Or sometimes there are places that just aren't appropriate for kids. I don't quite buy into the idea that little ones have a right to dine in a quiet restaurant and disrupt the meals of other patron's because they are equal citizens, and I wonder at the motives of such parents.

How about inviting Grandma to come visit, rather than hauling all the kids away from their toys and their comfort zone. How about spending time as a family in the back yard, playing board games, lounging around the kiddie pool, going out to dinner at Little Ceasar's, rather than booking a week on the Big Red Boat? The money mom and dad save could pay for a sitter and a nice night out alone without the kids. But in the interest of providing something special to the kids, parents expend lavish amounts of money on things that a toddler is never going to remember.

I might sound crotchety, but I think we've sort of forgotten the kids and their needs. Everytime I see an infant in a theater at a midnight showing, I wonder who's benefitting, and it ticks me off!