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cloned animals

Mebel

OWYM AG 29 yrs
In Europe meat from cloned animals and their offspring is not aloud.
But the Europian Commission is in fear now for an ban on imports with the United States.

Tonight all EP members gather about this trade. ( representing 27 europian countries).
Most of the countries are for free trade.
Germany, Austria and the Netherlands have a strong resist against cloned food.

I really hope that the meat from cloned animals stay off our markets!
EP (= our European Parliament-represents 27 Eu countries).
 
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truckman

Guest
I'm less worried about cloning than I am about hormones and toxics in our livestock, poultry, and edible foliage.
 
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gorillagirl

Guest
As a long time vegetarian and vegan, I hope cloned meat becomes the norm. Livestock is responsible for so much eco-destruction and pollution. If we clone flesh in a laboratory, no animals suffer. It's huge win-win for animals and for the planet. And that's why scientists want to do it.
 

Mebel

OWYM AG 29 yrs
Hi, yes I eat meat once a month.
And yes Truckman and GG i worry too!
Cloned animals are sick animals, with a lot of hormones in them, and so in their flesh.
I agree our livestock is becoming weaker and weaker!
The industry and pharmacy DO want us to believe that it is a win-win situation by creating a illness resistant livestock.
Against all natural diversity.
Through genetical selection making animals identical and resistent. And so create for us thís healthy meat!

Cloned animals suffer already from heart, liver and kidney diseases!

Genetical selection is going to be used to inject more hormones for quick growth.
Getting high productive cows and quick growing pigs with shorter life's and ..more illnesses!

The birth of these animals is already proven difficult by their surrogate mothers.
A lot of these 'clones' suffer during this pregnancy and from defects and deficiencies in their first lifeweeks.
And how do you think the industry treat sick animals...hopefully with more drugs??

Cloning leads to severe healthproblems. For humans and animals!
 
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Mebel

OWYM AG 29 yrs
so..What to do?
Investing in organic farming or in in-vitro meat (=meatcells artificially grown for the purpose of foodconsumpion),and get rid of the animals?
:)I really hope i will still see the cows in our Dutch Landscape! The inspiration for many great artists.
 
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truckman

Guest
Cloned animals are sick animals, with a lot of hormones in them, and so in their flesh.

Cloning has little, if anything to do with it.

"Meat" is just another word for body tissue, often muscles.

If a human lives on the sofa eating Doritos and Soda that human will be very sick in short order - organs stressed, lack of brain food, deteriorating muscle tissue from lack of exercise, etc.

The same thing happens to livestock. If you cram too many of them in a pen and feed them corn (which is what we do) the livestock don't get enough exercise and eat so poorly that they become unhealthy.

We contain them and feed them corn because it's 1) cheaper to do so and 2) lazy, fat animals weigh more - the whole livestock/poultry business is managed by weight. Heavier animals produce more dollars.

Don't you buy meat by the pound? That's how they're raised, sold, slaughtered, cut up, shinkwrapped - by the pound in each phase of the process.

The biggest problem is livestock is not "designed" to process corn. They're grazers and need grass. They don't get any. It's like feeding your baby doritos and expecting that child to grow into a strong, healthy young adult.

The healthier the livestock, the healthier the meat. Also, the better tasting.

This applies to poultry too.

Humans can't process corn very well either, yet it's in everything.

Watch "Food Inc." It's a documentary about this stuff.

We also genetically engineer tomatoes to be more red, applies to look a certain way, roses to have straighter stems and bigger hips, oranges to be larger with a smaller rhine to produce more juice.

Ever notice how watermelons are starting to be more basketball shaped than oblong? That's a side effect of genetic engineering - when you engineer them to produce significantly more "pink stuff" and less rhine for some reason they grow more round than oblong.

And bottled water is a joke too. Spring water my ***. Have you ever seen a water processing facility?

Basically, its a building with the worlds largest Brita pitcher you have ever seen. Tap water goes in, bottled water comes out. And you pay for this.

That's why I bought a whole-house water filter and a water softener. I get "bottled water" right out of my tap. And sometimes, I put it in bottles to take with me.

Back to cloning.

The purpose of livestock cloning is to genetically alter livestock to survive poor conditions - crowding, corn feed, yet produce better tasting meat. That's because we're too focused on profit to raise livestock (and poultry) the right way. More stuff means more profit. Profit makes stockholders and executives happy.

That's all that's going on. Nothing new.
 
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Mebel

OWYM AG 29 yrs
Yes you are right. It is the money again!
But i do not agree with the idea that cloning is really meant to alter these poor conditions! Beside the food industry, the PHARMACY is also reaping the dollar fruits! Someone has to be sick to get profit!

Last week I saw a farmer in holland, he had a huge farm with the best modern facilities for his cows ever! They were free to go outside and graze, or stay inside.
They could choose by themselves to be milked!! Maximum 5 times a day was possible. Most cows went 3 times, some big 'milk-ones' 5 times.
They could lay down and sleep/rest more comfortable on warm waterbeds. And choose by themselves to receive a massage from big automatical brushes( 5 different ones). Hanging in the stalls.

:) So funny to see them enjoy it. The cows were clean and relaxed looking. Their droppings etc. was also automatical rolling away on bands and via pipelines. And used for the energy for several other big farmholders in the area.
He said this is going to be the future for more farmers with a optimistic heart!
 
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gorillagirl

Guest
Mebel,
Honestly, put yourself in the position of the COW. If your short life was comfortable, is it still okay that you're murdered in the end?!?!
And yes, in-vitro meat (=meatcells artificially grown for the purpose of food consumpion) and get rid of the animals **is** the idea. Eventually, we will grow meat in vitro from the "best" (most tasty and healthy, ick, vomit!) cells and the animals will no longer be necessary.

Chi77- They will be using cells from select animals to "clone" the flesh and grow the meat out in laboratories ....imagine a huge roll of carpet and then transform it into a huge roll of meat.

Aside from a vegan world, this is a best-case scenario for animals and for the planet.
 

Mebel

OWYM AG 29 yrs
Hi GG,:yes: i hate to see animals live too short!
This farm example was about milkcows! They live long! Their milk is for our cheese industry. And yes! you are right the market also want meat and these milkcows deliver male animals too. They leave this farm, for consumption later!
Most of our cows in the landscapes are milkcows!
As I said i am almost a non meat eater, except some chicken or fish once a month.
But the idea to live in a world without animals, i can not imagine.

My utopia is to live in a world with healthy animals.
 
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chi77

Guest
I am against cloning animals, but if they can do what you said GG I agree, that would be great. I can see people rejecting that idea though, as "NOT NATURAL" and it being very hard for people to accept. Although, they actually don't think much about where the little packages of meat they see in the grocery store come from, so maybe they would go for it, but I'm guessing that's a very long way off.

Cloning animals is an abhorrence, as is genetic modification. What is being done with "food" is just wrong at the very core. It's like one big science experiment and no thanks, I don't want to be part of it.

I prefer to get my nutrition from nature, not Dr. Frankenstein.
 

Mebel

OWYM AG 29 yrs
Hi chi77,and GG, yes, ofcourse I also hope that this in-vitro way is soon to become the nutrition. But i already know that i do not need it to keep my health! I like to eat vegetable proteins.

But my thread started with the fact that we as a country, say NO to all living cloned animals and their meat, let it stay far away from our markets!
This is not about in-vitro at all. Which is still in the labscience fase and about making tissues out of some stamcells.

I am going to read my paper to search for the outcome of the EU gathering yesterday!

(hehe, sorry for my editing here, i try to make my point in a language which is not my native one)
 
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Slow Worm

Member
(sorry for my editing here, i try to make my point in a language which is not my native one)

I think your point is that you object to corporations trying to overturn the EU's prohibition upon the import of meat from cloned animals (and from those reared using growth-promoting hormones) and its labeling regulations concening genetically modified organisms on the grounds that these amount to an illegal restraint of trade.

They are arguing that foods containing GMO's, hormone-reared beef, beef from cloned cattle, etc, shoud not be labelled as such, and that products which do not contain these should not state that either, basically because they know full well that most European consumers will not buy these if we are able to identify them.

It seems to me that the idea that buyers should be denied information about the things they are buying in the name of 'free trade' is blatantly perverse.

SW
 

Mebel

OWYM AG 29 yrs
It seems to me that the idea that buyers should be denied information about the things they are buying in the name of 'free trade' is blatantly perverse.
SW

:) I totaly agree! Thank you! This EUgathering took 9 hours and they were not able to come to a agreement yet about this meat,(and sperm), eggs and milkproducts! This month another gathering about the regulatory is planned.
 
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truckman

Guest
It seems to me that the idea that buyers should be denied information about the things they are buying in the name of 'free trade' is blatantly perverse.

That's one of my objections. The other is that they do it in the first place, in the name of capitalism.

I can't count the number of snack foods where the picture on the packaging is nowhere near the top of the ingredient list.. Back in the mid 80's I used to love these apple crisp snacks that interestingly had pictures of apples all over the packaging yet contained no apples or apple extracts.

The biggest danger in my mind is soda - regardless of brand, it has a pH value of 2.5, the same as vinegar, which oxidizes all it comes in contact with. I've actually used diet soda to remove automotive paint in a pinch for a project. If you drink soda, which also contains high levels of phosphorous, you will leach calcium from your bones. Basic chemistry.

Aspartame sweetened sodas, while "processed" by your body after consumption, produce methanol and that gets dumped into your bloodstream. If you drink five aspartame-based sodas a day your body will produce about 250 mg of methanol, which is about 30 times greater than the EPA limit for methanol poisoning by the big polluters (chemical plants, refineries, i.e. big business that dumps stuff in the water).

30 times the limit, yet it's sold in cans everywhere.

Everyone by now has heard all about saccharin which has carcinogenic effects on the body. Big news stories about it years ago. Want to know why it's a carcinogen?

Saccharin is non-caloric petroleum derivative - it's made from crude oil - and the founding compositions of saccharin come from the same tanks in an oil refinary as DIESEL FUEL. Saccharin has it's chemical roots from WASTE PRODUCTS of refining diesel fuel.

The list of toxic stuff we eat and attempt to digest is astounding, and it's far more than hormones in steer/cows, poultry, etc.

That is why in 1906 the US Congress officially created the FDA as a branch of the department of agriculture.

The Food and Drug Administration is the oldest comprehensive consumer protection agency in the U. S. federal government. Its origins can be traced back to the appointment of Lewis Caleb Beck in the Patent Office around 1848 to carry out chemical analyses of agricultural products, a function that the newly created Department of Agriculture inherited in 1862. Although it was not known by its present name until about 1930, FDA’s modern regulatory functions began with the passage of the 1906 Pure Food and Drugs Act, a law a quarter-century in the making that prohibited interstate commerce in adulterated and misbranded food and drugs. "Interstate" was they key to locking down corporate giants who deliberately mislabel or don't label their food products with ingredients.

Harvey Washington Wiley, Chief Chemist of the Bureau of Chemistry in the Department of Agriculture, had been the driving force behind this law and headed its enforcement in the early years, providing basic elements of protection that consumers had never known before that time.

Corporate giants like Tyco have continually fought any legislation that requires disclosure of anything.

Here's a sad one.

United States of America v. Napera, Inc. et al
42:9607 Real Property Tort to Land

It's a case that's still going and based in southern NY state, specifically the Harriman area of Orange County.

Back in the early 1900's there was a chemical cleaner manufacturer in Harriman that was eventually bought by Napera, Inc. One of the byproducts of making those chemical cleaners was mercury, and lots of it. That company owned a "dump" about a mile from their processing plant and would simply truck over their barrels of mercury and pour it into the ground in the dump. They didn't even bother burying the barrels either - they re-used them because they're expensive.

Eventually that chemical cleaner manufacturer was bought by Napera and Napera continued this dumping practice into the 50's then finally stopped and got rid of their mercury another way, buried the dump and sold the land the dump was a part of.

That land became two things - part of it became a trailer park and part of it became a chicken ranch.

So, people, and chickens being sold as food, were living on top of a former mercury dump, that is, until the EPA found out and declared it a superfund site.

This little plot of land (several acres) had the highest recorded history of birth defects in NY at the time the EPA investigation began. Sick adults, sick children, and later on they discovered sick chickens being sold as food to surrounding communities.

I lived two miles north of there for seven years. I often wonder if my love for chicken parm at this one restaurant in town got their chickens from that coop - because they often bragged that they purchased live chickens from local farmers. Can't get any more local than "down the road".

I know this thread was originally and specifically focused on discussing cloning animals and meet, however I personally think it's very important that all of these corporate practices be paid attention to - for our health, and the health of our children and generations to come.

Corporate entities and their lobbyists NEVER have our best interest at heart.

And neither do the politicians that favor them. The primary purpose of the US government is to protect it's people - remember, by the people, for the people, of the people?

The scary thing is even if you grow/raise your own food on your property, you still might not fare so well, especially in some of these newer developments that were built on "corporate land" rather than formerly "state" land.

Sorry for the rant.
 

SheLikesKitties

OW/YM 21YR GAP
I am a bit of a cavewoman. I like meat and animal products. I eat some sort of egg, milk, cheese, beef or poultry every day. I do not care if the animals are cloned, I would like for them to be as hormone-free as possible, and free-range animals if possible, with as good a life as possible.

I would not want a steak to be cloned as a formless tissue in a lab. I might as well eat a soy steak.
 
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mines

Guest
not good to fool with mother nature

old add from the 70s we need to pay attention.
 
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gorillagirl

Guest
I believe this old ad said "it's not nice to fool with mother nature."
 
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