What's new
Ageless Love

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

six months later ... does he love me?

TheRomantic

New member
Dear all,

Well, I am back, five months or so after my latest post about J.

A bit of a recap for those who do not know: I have known J for seven years now. He was my former professor and we became very close friends. It is over the years that I developed strong feelings for him; they were not there from the beginning, but developed over time. My feelings right now are incredibly deep. I am in love and I love him. Of that I am certain. For people who do not feel like reading my old (very extensive and detailed) thread (http://www.agelesslove.com/boards/r...e-change-his-mind-should-i-take-his-word.html), we shared a lot of very deep and affectionate moments even before anything physical ever happened and it was clear that we had developed feelings for each other. However we both felt that we could not commit to each other, not only because of the age gap, but because of our plans. I felt I couldn't commit, because I felt my career goals may take me to another country this September (but now I want to stay and feel I can continue from here where I am) and after my experience with two age-gap relationships, I had resolved in my head that I want to try being with someone my own age. Of course, that went out the window, once I realized how strongly I felt for J. J told me from the beginning that his emotions for me are very deep, that he hasn't felt this strongly for anyone before, there is nobody else and he isn't looking for anybody else, but that he just can't commit to being in a relationship with me. I was okay with this at first, because I couldn't commit, either. We made love for the first time in October (though a year or so prior to that we crossed the line of being just friends, for a few months, until he backed away and distanced himself), so it has been half a year now. That's a *really* long time!

Current situation: We had a bit of a falling out in February, when I basically told him that I don't understand why we can't just give each other a chance, when we obviously care for each other deeply. I had a bit of an emotional outpouring, which was triggered by a simple and minor event, really. I had wanted to stay one night longer at his place and he didn't want me to. I let him know that I really need him and that it would mean a lot to me, but he still said no. Well, the conversation kind of eroded after that into something much bigger than it was initially. It took us a few weeks to recover from that. Now we are back to spending the weekends together and he is super-attentive. He spoils me completely when we see each other. Basically, he does pretty much whatever I want to do, whether it be going for a walk, watching Titanic or other movies I like, but he doesn't, makes me breakfast, buys me flowers, buys me little things, etc. etc. When we are not together (I live 100km away), he texts me pretty much every day. We have plans for May and June. We have three events planned in May and two in June and we already said we'd watch as many soccer games as possible in June (the Euro Cup). I can feel that his feelings for me are incredibly deep. His actions show it too. So, it is very confusing why he doesn't want to be with me. I have changed my mind from not wanting to commit, to feeling like I could.

The problem: He has told me that he doesn't feel comfortable with me sleeping over, that it makes him feel on edge and anxious. Clearly, this hurt me, because I *love* sleeping beside him and always want to stay, but I kept my cool. I know for a fact that sometimes he sleeps like a baby beside me and he has even been the one to ask me to stay another night, so I feel that his statement is not always true. He seems to yo-yo between wanting me to stay over and feeling anxious about it. He has lived alone for seven years and is a bit of a hermit. So, now we have limited it to me staying over one night, instead of two. Well, after the fall-out, he didn't want me to stay over at all and we just kind of organically moved back to me staying over and I feel that it will, again, go back to two nights as well. But, the fact remains that he still feels on edge when I stay 48 hours or so. He tells me that he is used to living alone and that it has nothing to do with me that he feels on edge and anxious knowing that there is someone else there. When he has a lot of responsibilities, I sometimes tell him that I can just be at his place and do my own work and he can do his, that I don't need his undivided attention. He tells me that he can't just pretend I am not there and knowing I am there, makes him feel like he can't just go on doing things as though I wasn't there. So, the main conflict here is that I feel so much affection when I am with him, I don't want to leave, but he seems to want to spend less time together in a chunk than I do. So, we had this sort of philosophical discussion about the balance between growing by moving out of your comfort zone and also just staying within it somewhat, because human beings need it to feel stable. It's tough to find that balance. He said he is willing to accept change into his life. We talked a bit about Rilke, who said ...

"But the fear of the inexplicable has not only impoverished the reality of the individual; it has also narrowed the relationship between one human being and another, which has as it were been lifted out of the riverbed of infinite possibilities and set down in a fallow place on the bank, where nothing happens. For it is not only indolence that causes human relationships to be repeated from case to case with such unspeakable monotony and boredom; it is timidity before any new, inconceivable experience, which we don’t think we can deal with.

But only someone who is ready for everything, who doesn’t exclude any experience, even the most incomprehensible, will live the relationship with another person as something alive and will himself sound the depths of his own being."

Anyway, what I am confused about is that I shift between two ways of thinking, one is more nuanced and the other is more black and white.

1. The nuanced one is: Okay, he shares the same feelings for me, but due to his past experience and his experience now, he just feels uncomfortable with me sleeping over or being in a relationship. This is not a reflection of his feelings for me (as he says). I also don't know whether to fully believe him, because he holds me all night and snuggles up to me and makes love to me in the morning! So, the more nuanced part of me tries to understand why he wants me to go, when I still want to stay.

2. The more black and white one is: He doesn't want me to stay over. He says he can't commit to me being his girlfriend. Clearly, he doesn't love me enough! Simple as that.


So, I guess my question here is .... Do you think that he actually loves me as much as I love him and he just has other issues, or would this issue not even exist if he cared for me enough?

Maybe a bit more info on his situation: He is very stressed at work and feels like nobody appreciates him, nobody likes him, and they are all against him. His sabbatical starts July 1. He is looking forward to it (to getting away from his department), but is nervous about it at the same time and wonders if he'll know what to do with his time. His mother just died (end of March) (he felt uncomfortable even before his mother died, though), he is unhappy with where his life is, he feels that he needs to figure out what would make him happy. He has told me that I am incredible, that he is not looking for anyone else, does not need anyone else, but that he doesn't know if he wants to be in any relationship at all. I keep shifting between accepting his statement and between thinking that he is not sure if he wants to be with ME and once the right woman comes along, he'll know he wants to be with her. He says this is not the case. He is a very strange one, keeps to himself a lot, is very private and needs a lot of space.

So, between knowing his slightly reclusive character, feeling like he treats me like a princess when we are together, and him telling me he can't commit to me, I am very confused! When I tell him that I am out with other boys (there are a few who like me), he tells me he is jealous, but wants me to keep my options open as he feels it's not fair of him to demand that I don't see other men. I just don't know what to make of this. He doesn't go on any dates, doesn't see anyone else. I do go on dates and tell him about them, but nobody compares! And he is very aware that I would prefer to just be with him. If he didn't treat me with so much love/affection when we are together, I'd think that his whole "I can't commit to you, but I care for you deeply", is complete bull&^$%, and I'd move on. Am I deluding myself that he really cares about me as much as I care about him? When I bring it all up with him, he tells me something along the lines of, "We just spent the whole weekend together, focused on each other, me doing everything you want me to do - how can you question whether I feel deeply for you".

But, it's so mind-boggling to me that if you feel so strongly for someone, that you wouldn't take the plunge and be with this person, regardless of any other obstacles.

Any input will be appreciated. :) Thanks so much for reading.
 

TheRomantic

New member
:))))

I am smiling so much right now, because J just called me. I pick up and all I hear is music. He is at this conference, where there are also musical acts and he let me listen to this song, which I thought was absolutely beautiful. I googled the lyrics and it's Easy to Tame by Kim Mitchell:

what am I doing to make you so sad?
we used to dance 'till we fell to our knees
what am I doing to make you so sad?
we used to kiss like a summer breeze

cause you used to have love in your kisses
and you used to put my heart in flames
you used to give me all my three wishes
you said I was easy to tame
you said i was easy to tame

can't you take me out of the rain baby
Find More lyrics at Lyrics, Song Lyrics - SweetsLyrics.com
why do you treat me like i'm so bad

what am I doing to make you so sad?
we always made love when it rained
what am I doing to make you so sad?
I guess being in love is like being insane

cause you used to have love in your kisses
and you to put my heart in flames
you used to give me all my three wishes
you said I was easy to tame
you said i was easy to tame

KIM MITCHELL - Easy to Tame LIVE 2011 HD - YouTube


:)))) It's so crazy how such a little simple gesture can make me so happy.

I am sorry if I am repeating my question, because I know I asked something similar back in November. It's just that I am so confused if he likes me so much, why won't he be with me fully and now there is something new I am confused about, with this mental barrier he has created, i.e. feeling uncomfortable with me staying over, when I think it's one of the most beautiful things we are experiencing together, falling asleep in each other's arms....

Agh!!!

Anyway, I'm too happy right now to be too frustrated. :bgrin2:

This is what happens. I'd resolve to take some distance and then he goes and does something so sweet that makes me blush and my heart flutter :eek:
 
G

gorillagirl

Guest
You're going to ride a yo-yo indefinitely with this guy. I think your #2 option is most correct :"2. The more black and white one is: He doesn't want me to stay over. He says he can't commit to me being his girlfriend. Clearly, he doesn't love me enough! Simple as that." He is a typical unavailable guy. He can romance you for 48 hours but he can't sustain it. Maybe he's got Asperger's or Schizoid Disorder. Common. They can only handle very light social interaction and a very light load of expectations upon them. You have three choices. You can completely screw yourself over by pressuring him to commit then dealing with hearing more yo-yo nonsense from him over and over and over until it drives you mad ...OR...you can totally accept it and keep seeing other men until one of them is ready to commit...or you can dump him so he doesn't make you batty.

I suggest learning to completely accept it. Stop questioning it. Everything is going to be on his terms. In the meantime, read "Mr. Unavailable and the Fallback Girl." This guy is definitely not relationship material. When he calls you with this romantic song type game...and it is a sweet romantic game... he's just stringing you along...it's a carrot...and he's acting like a "future faker." He wants the sex without the commitment. He's giving you as much as he possibly can so you will hang on to the bitter end. If I were in your shoes, since you want more, I'd give him another 3 months to improve his availability and then throw in the towel. If you want him forever, get really busy with your own life so you don't have time to see him during the week and then you'll really cherish the 24 or 48 hours you get. Hell, 48 hours of romantic undivided attention is MUCH MORE than most married couples give each other. You might be really disappointed if you get more of him (eg: living together). He might not be able to handle the interaction overload and might end up shutting you out more often than now.

Quit yer nagging, live your own life well and full, keep your ears and eyes wide open, stay grounded in reality and reduce your expectations significantly.
 

SheLikesKitties

OW/YM 21YR GAP
I think that GG has given you good advise. It's your call to accept the situation or not. I personally know people who are perfectly happy with a 48 hour relationship. Just make sure that he does not have someone else on the side.
 

soul

New member
I remember your original thread and those long posts:tongue2: - I believe i gave advice back then that still holds for today somewhat.

To counter GG's reply because i don't fully agree ( only because i remember the original thread and content ). I don't think he's playing you, i do think he genuinly loves you, and feels the same for you as you do him.

HOWEVER! you must practice what you preach. You're asking a very insecure guy whose set in his ways to commit to you, well he has anyway ( he's not dating anyone else) and be in a fully fledged relationship. Well hello, you both are in a relationship together but your both acting it out in an unusual fashion.
If he's sending you mix messages, then i'm sure he could say the same of you. You're dating other guys and if that wasnt bad enough, telling him about them!
C'mon now, you don't have to be a rocket scentists to work out that by doing what you're doing, isnt showing him your 100% commited for you both to work.

Ofc he's going to tell you your all free to go enjoy yourself, this guys hang ups from going back from your original thread, was all about him feeling guilty about holding you back, it doesnt mean he actually wants you to go dating other men, and worse to give him all the gory details.

You've made some positive progress over the years, i'm remembering you were at a stage where he wouldn't even aknowledge he liked you that way, and you struggling to let him know how you felt.

I can't honestly answer why he doesn't want you to stay longer than 48hrs, maybe the truth is his explanation. Maybe he's using it as some self protection mechanism, so he doesnt get hurt, I don't know. But I do know actions speak louder than words sometimes, and your actions arent showing him you care that much about him, not enough to commit like you're asking him to. Your relationship has been slow to say the least in growing, from what 7 yrs ? you've gone from a stary eyed student to one of a deep and genuine love with an older man and you may have to excercise more patience to get him past the 48hr thing. But if you really truly want what you say, then you will need to reconsider your actions I think.
 

pinkunicorn

New member
It is very possible to care deeply for someone, yet not want to commit.

A part of me really wonders if you want to commit. You say you do, but your actions show otherwise. From my observations, you are more in love with the idea of having a committed relationship than anything else.

Go out and live your life. It seems like you're doing all the chasing. Make him chase you if he wants you. And what if he doesn't? Well, you'll be too busy living your life to even notice!
 

TheRomantic

New member
gg, SLK, soul and pinkunicorn, thanks so much for your input and your replies.

I feel that I need to clarify a little bit what I meant by saying "I am dating other guys". Perhaps this was a bit of a misrepresentation from my side and an overstatement. By "dating", I mean that I have gone out for dinner with someone (knowing that the guy likes me), for lunch, a walk, etc. Nothing physical actually happened and I told J this. Soul, I know this seems like a sort of contradiction between my words and actions, i.e. I tell J that I want to fully commit to him and give our relationship a 100% chance, yet I go out with someone else. I just don't know what else to do; I tried the other route and it blew up in my face. I am not even really "dating" - I don't even kiss, let alone do anything else. So, in that sense, I am loyal and committed to J.

The other option seems to make things worse, i.e. me not going out with anyone else. It makes him anxious, makes him feel pressure and gives him a feeling that he can't live up to my expectations. Actually, before our falling out in February (February 27, to be exact), I wasn't "going out" with anyone else (and heck, I'm still not really; I have only been physical with J), and in fact, kept telling J that I really do not have the desire to see other men. This seemed to make him feel really guilty and on edge. I also told him that I am deeply in love with him and that I love him and he didn't say it back, he still hasn't. The falling out happened, because I straight out told him that I simply don't understand why he wants me to see other guys, that I don't want to see anyone else, and that I just want to be with him, and I told him exactly what you said, i.e. that we ARE already in a relationship, whether he admits it or not! That we are acting like a couple and even more like a couple than some of the couples I actually know.

His response was that he told me already he doesn't see how we can combine our futures together. We had more of a talk afterwards, and it all seemed to make him retreat and even tell me that I shouldn't sleep over anymore, because I am clearly more attached to him than he can promise me and he is more attached to me than he should be. After two weeks or so of torture and wanting to talk it all out (basically my whole point to him being that we are clearly adding to each other's lives and what is it that he is so afraid of and what is it that I would take away from his life by being with him in a 100% committed relationship), and yet not getting anywhere, because he distanced himself, I finally just stepped back. He then came after me and things, eventually, got back to how they were before the falling out.

He knows that I would commit to him. He knows that if he gave me that commitment, I would just drop going out with any other guys. I have told him this. For now, I just see this is the best solution. He also knows that I don't let any of the other men I go out with even kiss me. Also, it's not like I have much time to see anyone else. We spend basically every weekend together and I am busy during the week. I get to slip in a dinner with someone else every couple of weeks or so. And it's just a harmless dinner. After a guy my age takes me out for dinner, I tell J, and the conversation goes something like this:

J: So, how was dinner?
Me: It was alright, I am not that interested in him; I would have rather had dinner with you.
J: You have to give the youngsters a chance. I am sure they are fascinating men, much more fascinating than me.
Me: You're being silly.


I think in some twisted way, the fact that I did go out on a few "dates" (if you can call it that), and that I always reported back saying they were quite interesting men, but I would have preferred to be out with J, shows him my commitment even more. I also respond to his text messages even when I'm out with another guy, which seems kind of rude, I know, (towards the person I am with), but I just care about J so much, I feel like I want to respond to ease his mind, so that he knows I'm not off in someone else's arms.

There are so many contradictions here, I know ...

I've shown him my commitment by NOT crossing the line with anyone and by preferring him over anyone else, even being in communication with him.
 

TheRomantic

New member
Also, in some twisted way, it seems to have taken off some pressure between J and me, that I occasionally go out with a man who asks me out.

It's almost like this makes him believe that I am not just waiting around for him to finally be ready, but that I am out there meeting other people (yet not following through with anything physically).
 

TheRomantic

New member
It is very possible to care deeply for someone, yet not want to commit.

A part of me really wonders if you want to commit. You say you do, but your actions show otherwise. From my observations, you are more in love with the idea of having a committed relationship than anything else.

Go out and live your life. It seems like you're doing all the chasing. Make him chase you if he wants you. And what if he doesn't? Well, you'll be too busy living your life to even notice!

I am not sure I am doing all the chasing. He texts me first most of the times. And sometimes he even texts me again if I don't respond within a certain timeframe. He would also then joke a bit if I don't respond, saying something like, "Oh, you must be out with one of the boys again...". Of course, that is not the case, because I have so much to do during the week and I also have my individual projects going on (like writing my novel).

Also: I drive 100km to see him and back every four or five days. This takes quite some time and shows my commitment.

We are spending this whole Saturday together. I told him that I can't stay over this time, because I have made plans on Sunday. On Wednesday, we are also going to a concert together here in the city where I live. And we have another concert we are going to the following Saturday in a whole other city. I suspect that for practical reasons, we'll "have to" spend two nights together again, probably for both of these times that we are going to see a concert.

It's so weird, because he seems to act like he is my boyfriend as long as the label is not there. As soon as I bring up again that I don't truly understand why we "can't be" together, I seem to wreck it all.:confused:
 

pinkunicorn

New member
So then why can't you just enjoy what you have together? Do you reallly need a label for that?

Why is having your relationship labeled so important to you? Why can't it just simply be?

I get the feeling that you may be trying to force something here, while he just wants to be with you. Forcing a relationship is the quickest way to squelch it.

I have a friend who is going through something similar. She has been on this roller coaster with her boyfriend for three years. One day she calls me, on cloud nine because he bought her something or did something romantic for her. The next day she's in tears because her guy isn't as attentive as she'd like him to be, or made plans without her, or told her he needs space, or whatever. She winds up thinking he is mad at her and they are on the verge of breaking up.

I'll say it again. Just simply let yourselves be. Enjoy your time together, but make sure he puts some effort into seeing you, too. Find stuff to do so you aren't always so "available" to him at the drop of a hat. If you're going to go out with guys, do it with integrity. These guys are asking you out because they are interested in you. It's very immature to agree to go on a date with someone you have no intention of beginning a relationship with, romantic or otherwise. I mean, how would you like it if you met a nice guy at the bookstore and you had a deeply intense conversation about your mutually favorite author, so you asked him to meet you for coffee sometime, hinking this could be the start of a great friendship, if not a relationship. And he wound up texting this other girl the whole time--even though she's "not really" his girlfriend, but just a girl he's serious about and is sleeping with.... you'd feel hurt, betrayed, even lied to. I know I would.

If you're going to be seeing other guys--even just innocently--don't be wanting a more serious relationship with J. If you want a serious relationship with J, don't be seeing other guys. Unless, you and J decide on an "open" relationship. Then by all means, have your fun. But just make sure the guys you are going to dinner with know what's up. And if J texts you during dinner, respond to him afterward. If your best friend or mom or someone texted you during dinner with J, would you sit there and have an entire text conversation while your chicken parmigana gets cold on your plate and he's ordering off the dessert menu already? No, probably not. You probably turn your phone off and focus on the man sitting in front of you for a few hours.

Ask yourself: Do you want a "real" relationship with commitment, labels, etc.? Or do you want J? He's made it clear you can't have both.

Do you want to know how I knew my OM was the man I wanted to marry? Because I knew I wanted to spend the rest of my life with him, even if we never put a ring on it. He made it clear at the beginning of our relationship that he probably would never marry again. I had to ask myself, do I want to have a marriage, or do I want to be with Terry? I realized I valued being with him much more than I valued having a marriage. I valued him as a person more than I valued the relationship. I wanted to be his lifelong partner whether we were married or not. Compared to my ex husband, where I was so happy that a man would want to marry me, I didn't stop and ask myself--is this the person I really want to spend the rest of my life with? I valued the relationship more than the person. But, a few months later, he had an engagement ring under the Christmas tree for me. He asked if I wouldn't mind just being his fiancee forever. I woudn't have minded that, either. But 9 months later, we got married. BUT we didn't have a big blowout ceremony. Heck we didn't even see a justice of the peace. We decided to be common-law married, which is legal in our state. Some people refuse to recognize that we are married. Others tell us that until we sign a certificate, we aren't really married. But who cares what other people say or what they think? All that matters is what is in our hearts and that we both know that we want to be together in our own way.
 

TheRomantic

New member
So then why can't you just enjoy what you have together? Do you reallly need a label for that?

Why is having your relationship labeled so important to you? Why can't it just simply be?

I get the feeling that you may be trying to force something here, while he just wants to be with you. Forcing a relationship is the quickest way to squelch it.

Pinkunicorn, thanks for your detailed response. It is very much appreciated.

I do agree with you that being with the person is more important than the label. Because regardless of how you name it, the experience remains the same. I don't think that it's the label that is most important to me here, but I am concerned about two things primarily:

1. He seems to think that our futures are so incompatible (I disagree). Basically, I find it a scary prospect to have him keep saying to me that we cannot be together in the future, whereas I am getting more and more emotionally attached to him and the thought of not being with him, is getting more and more painful. So, I just ask myself whether it is wise to keep feeding my emotions for a man, who doesn't see a future with me. I am not trying to force a future, and I know that in any relationship, you don't really know where you will be six months down the road, a year, or more, but you go into it with an open mind or with the hope to make it last as long as possible.

2. I am not integrated anywhere in his life. It's not like when there is a conference and all his colleagues are around, we walk in together hand in hand, like we would if we were going to a play. As far as his friends, family and colleagues are concerned, I'm only a friend. It just feels like his life with me is completely separate from his "other" life. It doesn't feel good to feel like he is hiding me, which -essentially- is happening. He always apologizes for this. And sometimes I don't feel like he is hiding me, because we do display public affection and he lives in a very small town, so it's not unlikely to run into a friend/colleague, which -actually- we have a several times, and it was always an awkward moment.

I think there is a difference between forcing a label onto something, and being completely in the dark about where a relationship is headed. It's not like he is some guy I just met several months ago. I've known him for seven years. And we've been "dating" now for seven months. I wouldn't need the label of "boyfriend-girlfriend", if he wasn't hiding me and if he wasn't telling me there is no way to have a future together. This way I feel like I'm just walking into the dark, unsure of where I'm headed. I don't need to have the end-goal in sight, but at least I'd like to be wanting to head into a similar direction as the person I am walking with.

I'll say it again. Just simply let yourselves be. Enjoy your time together, but make sure he puts some effort into seeing you, too.

I agree with you. I've been doing that since our conflict at the end of February. I even made plans on Sunday, so that I wouldn't stay over. I am the one who always drives to see him, because I'm the one who has a car and he's the one who has his own place (house). I live with my friend, so it makes more sense for me to come and see him. He equals out the fact that I am the one who has to drive by making himself available pretty much almost whenever I would like to see him. I think that's fair. And, not to mention that he pretty much is willing to do anything I'd like to do, although he also take some initiative to plan and suggests things to me. So, he does definitely try to compensate for the fact that I always have to drive and he doesn't have that inconvenience.


Find stuff to do so you aren't always so "available" to him at the drop of a hat. If you're going to go out with guys, do it with integrity. These guys are asking you out because they are interested in you. It's very immature to agree to go on a date with someone you have no intention of beginning a relationship with, romantic or otherwise. I mean, how would you like it if you met a nice guy at the bookstore and you had a deeply intense conversation about your mutually favorite author, so you asked him to meet you for coffee sometime, hinking this could be the start of a great friendship, if not a relationship. And he wound up texting this other girl the whole time--even though she's "not really" his girlfriend, but just a girl he's serious about and is sleeping with.... you'd feel hurt, betrayed, even lied to. I know I would.

You're right. I *am* honest with the guys (it's not like there are many - there have been three) about where I'm at. I tell them about J, too. I don't sit there having whole conversations with J via text, I send him one or two, which is as rude, so I'll endeavour to stop doing that.

If you're going to be seeing other guys--even just innocently--don't be wanting a more serious relationship with J. If you want a serious relationship with J, don't be seeing other guys.

But it almost seems to me like J truly wants me to go on (innocent) dates, because one of his insecurities seems to be that I am going to meet a young man I like more than him. And this way it's almost like he wants to see if it will happen or not and I want to show him that it won't happen, regardless of how many other guys I have the chance of getting to know. I don't really want to or need to go out with anyone else except J. But, like I said, it made him feel uncomfortable to know that I am turning down offers. Or is me going out now making him even more uncomfortable ?!? Well, maybe if it is, then it will also make him realize that maybe he does want to see me as someone he could possibly be with for as long as his old age. I only need him to want this, and to not hide me, the label I couldn't care less about. When you met your OM, you knew you wanted to be with him for the rest of your life ... I think this is different from J telling me constantly that we are not going to be together for the rest of my or his life. If he was telling me he wants to be with me as long as possible and hopefully until the end of his life, that's all I would need to hear. I wouldn't need a ring, either. Just knowing that he wants to be with me 30 years from now would be enough for me. But that's not what he says. :(
 

TheRomantic

New member
I remember your original thread and those long posts:tongue2: -

:) Apparently, I just find it impossible to find my posts short. They are still as long as ever. :p

With this additional info I've provided, do you still feel I should stop going on "dates" with other guys? I almost feel like I'm doing this as some sort of twisted solution, because while I was very clear that I am not going out with any guy asking me, it seemed that J was feeling very pressured and responsible and almost obliged to step up his commitment. I could notice him retreating and feeling a bit on edge and now it seems like he's a little more relaxed again. Since I told him that I love him and am in love with him and that I know I don't really want to be with anyone else, I felt that being the good man that he is, he maybe felt it is his duty/obligation to somehow step up and be on the same wavelength. But maybe he wasn't ready to be there yet. And maybe I'm (perhaps overcompensating) trying to remove this pressure by "seeing other guys", when I practically almost have to force myself to. I don't know. I'm really perplexed and just trying out things to make the dynamics between me and J as pleasant for both of us as possible.
 

degausser

New member
:) Apparently, I just find it impossible to find my posts short. They are still as long as ever. :p

With this additional info I've provided, do you still feel I should stop going on "dates" with other guys? I almost feel like I'm doing this as some sort of twisted solution, because while I was very clear that I am not going out with any guy asking me, it seemed that J was feeling very pressured and responsible and almost obliged to step up his commitment. I could notice him retreating and feeling a bit on edge and now it seems like he's a little more relaxed again. Since I told him that I love him and am in love with him and that I know I don't really want to be with anyone else, I felt that being the good man that he is, he maybe felt it is his duty/obligation to somehow step up and be on the same wavelength. But maybe he wasn't ready to be there yet. And maybe I'm (perhaps overcompensating) trying to remove this pressure by "seeing other guys", when I practically almost have to force myself to. I don't know. I'm really perplexed and just trying out things to make the dynamics between me and J as pleasant for both of us as possible.

I also think you need to stop going on dates, if what you really want is commitment from J. Trust me, I have been in plenty of situations where I kept dating other men because I knew that the person I really wanted was always going to keep me at arm's length. So if that's what you're doing...you need to give up on a serious relationship with J, because you can't have both.

He can say whatever he wants about thinking you could do better with a younger man, but I can pretty much promise you, if he has feelings for you at all, he does NOT want you dating other men! Where is the line drawn? Do you sleep with them? What happens if you end up really liking one of them? Well, it probably almost doesn't matter. Let's look at these two things: 1) Your dating life - You go on "dates" with men (I'm not sure exactly what that entails), and tell them upfront that you are involved with another man, who doesn't want to commit to you. You actually text him during your dates (?!). What are the chances that anyone you go on a date with after that, would actually want to date you? That's like the epitome of baggage. That's like bringing your baggage out on your date. And making your date look at it. 2) J - you want to give your relationship a real shot, really make a go of it. And you're dating other men. Period! I don't care what he says, he is not going to commit to you like that. By going out on dates with other men, you're letting J know he doesn't matter. You are confirming, that you can (and will) do better with a younger man. You are letting him know that he is temporary.

My boyfriend says rather frequently that he thinks I could do better than him, and one of these days I'm going to leave him with his heart in his hands, when I find someone younger/better. Do you know how I deal with those insecurities? I continue to be in a loving, monogamous relationship. I'm not going to "prove him wrong" by going on dates with other men. I'm going to prove him wrong by spending my life with him, and loving him as much as a person can be loved.

I can't tell you what J really wants or what he's thinking. But I can tell you that if YOU want a serious relationship with him, you need to stop dating other men. It isn't going to get you anywhere - either with J, or a new relationship.
 

soul

New member
Hmm, well, all of this basically boils down to his inability to accept that your age gap can work. To reference your quote from one of your conversations is revealing I think.

J: So, how was dinner?
Me: It was alright, I am not that interested in him; I would have rather had dinner with you.
J: You have to give the youngsters a chance. I am sure they are fascinating men, much more fascinating than me.
Me: You're being silly.

When he says 'give these youngsters a chance' - assuming you're a similar age to these guys you've been dating, means he's still seeing you in some ways as a 'youngster' - its also a slightly patronising term for someone whose younger. I'm sure he doesnt think they'll be fascinating, but is more looking for affirmation from you (a compliment in reply), theres also a slight hint of martyrdom.

From reading what you've said, you have two choices I think. Either carry on as you are minus the dating other guys, but be prepared to be in for the long haul of him finally accepting you can work for the long term, going by your track record so far, this could take quite a while, years even.

Or your other option, which will work much quicker, but will require some willpower on your part is to play the 'hard to get card'. As things stand atm, he's kinda calling the shots. You know that saying ' people always want what they can't have'. Well atm, theres no chase involved, you're there 24/7 for him, albeit sometimes only via text because of your physical distance appart. He needs to get the wake up call that he NEEDS you and whilst theres an element already there of that, theres nothing really appart from your verble complaint to him that you want you both official to make him get his act together.
If he thought he was losing you, he would have to take seriously his actions and step up to the mark and try and keep you, atm he's not having to do that.
I don't know if suggesting a splitting up per say to create the above effect, or maybe you could just not be as available. Dont visit him every w/end make other plans, if you go on dates, dont tell him you would prefer to be with him and the guy wasn't interesting type of thing. That phrase 'you dont know what you had until you've lost it' is the realisation he needs, how you go about that really you're best to decide. :yes:
 
G

gorillagirl

Guest
"I just ask myself whether it is wise to keep feeding my emotions for a man, who doesn't see a future with me." NO! It is not wise since you're head over heels in love with him. Sex is the glue that holds dysfunctional relationships together. Stop having sex with him for 30 days and see what happens.
 

walkersam

New member
TR, GG and Pink Unicorn are giving good advice. I can relate to several things you posted about how he treats you. My bf also treats me like this when we are together. He is also somewhat of a recluse and seems to get anxious when I spend the night. While I am there, he will fuss over me being too hot, too cold, etc. and says he just wants everything to be perfect. If anything, he wants everything to always be just right and I can see why it would make anyone anxious.

We just went thru a time of him needing space but did come out the other side in a better place. He was worried that I wanted more than he did right now or would sometime soon. He thought I should see other people and find somebody to settle down with who was ready to take of me. He basically was worried about losing his space. We are just in the beginning of the second year and I don't know if I could do this for 7.

I don't think going out to dinner with other men actually shows any type of committment from you even if you do discuss it and tell him you would rather be with him. You could possibly be validating some of his concerns even if he doesn't admit it. I would not dream of seeing anybody else and I know he is not interested in seeing anybody else. It does not matter that you won't even kiss them, it has to do with the emotional part as well.

I do know a couple who dated for about 10 years or so then decided to get married and only stayed married for a week, got divorced, she moved back to her own house and they now live happily ever after seeing each other when they want to but both in their on space. They just could not live together.
 

TheRomantic

New member
Thanks everyone for your input.

It seems that some of you think I should show *more* commitment (by not going on dates, which I barely do anyway and it's never really officially "a date" when I do - it's more like meeting up with someone of the opposite gender) and some think I should show *less* commitment and that he now thinks that I am way too available for him.

gorillagirl,
Maybe your idea of not having sex for 30 days is not such a bad idea. We already tried this. Once, J was the first to suggest we stop the physical aspect, but see each other as much. The second time I was the one who suggested it. Both times -obviously- failed. It's just so difficult to stop having sex. I almost feel like I'd have to not see him at all for this to occur. The attraction between us is just so intense in that sense.

Like I said, the reason I decided to go on these so-called dates is because he told me that he feels too much pressure from me and that he already told me he can't be in a relationship with me. What am I supposed to do? Wait another 7 years for him to make up his mind and just put my life on hold? I really don't think that's fair. We've been dating for the past 7 months and I have *not* been physically involved with anyone. I know it's not just the physical part, it's emotional, but he knows I'm emotionally committed to him - it's what scares him away. It really does. I don't see how showing him that I, in fact, *have* put my life on hold by not seeing anyone, by showing him that, yes, I'm waiting for him to just change his mind about being in a relationship with me, will help the situation. It makes *me* feel horrible and like I'm not looking out for myself at all and giving him ALL the power in the relationship. How is that equal? How is it fair when he won't even hold my hand in public (unless we are not in the city he lives in), goes from hot to cold in a day, and explicitly tells me he doesn't feel comfortable telling his colleagues or friends about me and that people are already talking and he doesn't know what to say. I know, I know, I've been understanding about his concerns and some are valid, but don't we all deserve to have someone who will be proud to tell people in their life about us and be proud to show them the person they feel is so special to them? Well, he makes me feel awful by hiding me and I really need to have *some* power at least and to me, that is showing him that I would prefer to be with him, but until he is ready to make some steps, I can't make a 100% commitment, either. I don't see why I would make a 100% commitment before he does? He knows I am ready to.

Anyway, we saw each other. Update:

On Wednesday we went to this concert in my city. He told me that to make my life easier, he had booked a hotel for us and that I also don't need to pick him up and he'll be okay taking the train or bus. Because he was so thoughtful to book a hotel, I told him I would pick him up and also drive him back. (He had to be at work at 1:30pm on Thursday.) He asked me several times if I am sure and that he doesn't mind saving me the trip. Anyhow, I went and picked him up and Wednesday was magical and like out of a fairytale. He was so sweet, gentle, thoughtful and affectionate. We even walked hand-in-hand. The concert was at a club, so we were standing the whole time. He was pretty much holding me that whole time and dancing with me a little ... or more like swaying me back and fourth and caressing/massaging my neck and shoulders. I could feel the affection so strongly. We got to the room at around midnight and lied down on the couch. We watched half an hour of Seinfeld, while he basically caressed me all over. Something was just even more amazing about the way he was with me and his touch (even though it's already mind-blowing). That night making love to him was absolutely mind-blowing. It was so gentle, romantic and so much emotion there. He was also very sweet in the morning, but did not make love to me. I didn't really think about it much, because his day was filled with meetings and he was probably thinking about them. I also appreciated that he took a day and a half off from work just to be able to go to this concert with me. I don't know how to explain it, but Wednesday was one of the most beautiful, if not the most beautiful, day we have had and -to me- one of the most beautiful ways we have made love. I just can't explain it. It was beyond this world.

So, we leave around noon and when we are almost there, I ask him what he had decided about if we'd see each other after his work. We left it kind of open when we had discussed it on Tuesday. He then says he doesn't know. He says that he is done around 6pm or so and, maybe, if I want, he could take me for ice-cream. But, the atmosphere has clearly changed by 180* just by me asking that question. The way he said it was more like ... "okay, if I really have to, I'll take you out". I can't hide my emotions (I didn't say anything except, "okay, yeah, maybe, I don't know", and then he tells me that he feels whatever he does is not enough. That we'll see each other on Saturday and some of Sunday and that he is trying so hard to make every time we go out as special as possible and why can't I just be happy with that. I said something along the lines of that I really appreciate and see everything he is doing, from larger to smaller things and that I am sorry if I am making him feel badly or under pressure. That I don't want to do that. And that I am sorry the issue seems to be that I'd like to see him more and he wants to be alone. Anyway, we chew over some of the things we have already discussed before, and we arrive at his work place. Since he was driving us, we both get out of the car. We are continuing this conversation about whether we'll have ice-cream later, the conversation is clearly not going well, something along the lines of:

J: So, as I said, I don't know, I will text you when I am done.
Me: Okay then. I don't know what I'll do, I may go back to * or stay. I don't know. So I'll maybe see you or maybe I won't.
J: Ahh, it means that little to you.
Me: No, clearly I want to. I'm the one who asked you, remember? But I don't want you to feel obligated to see me.
J: *sighs*
Me: I don't think we should continue this conversation and you have a lot of meetings ahead of you, so I want to let you focus on that.
J: Okay. Well, thanks for the wonderful time ....

and, here it comes, he then, gave me his hand. I wasn't really thinking anymore at this point and took his hand. He then shook it very formally as though we were almost complete strangers or business partners or something....at this point, I'm not thinking anymore at all what I'm saying and just saying what I feel so ... the conversation goes something like this ...

Me: What in the world? Why are you giving me a handshake? What was this? Some interview?
J: I'm sorry. You know this is my workplace here.
Me: I know that! But you never shook my hand before and we just had the most amazing time.
J: I know. But it's my workplace here. You know that. I've told you this.
Me: Whatever. Forget it. *I start walking towards the car door.*
J: Hey, don't leave like this.
Me: Okay. Fine.
J: Let's not ruin the nice day we had.
Me: Fine. We'll be in touch. Good luck with your meetings.

Anyway, he sends me a text around 5pm asking how I am. We end up going for ice-cream, but he is not in a good mood at all and not happy about it at all. And I feel more like he is babysitting me. So, we end up having the same unproductive conversation about how I expect too much from him, he doesn't expect anything from me (not true) and he already told me he can't be in a relationship with me, so why do I continue to expect this. He tells me we can go out now and have ice-cream, but if we don't talk about this relationship stuff!

At this point, I'm exhausted and don't want to talk about it anymore either, so we just go on having ice-cream and I go home.

As I am typing this, he sent me a list of restaurants (very nice ones) to choose from to go to tomorrow as we are going to another concert in another city. And he told me that he'll drive us back to his place then and I'll stay over at his place. I'm just afraid the same thing will happen this time. We'll have an out-of-this world time tomorrow and on Sunday, things will be different. I will want to stay another night because of all the intimacy we have created and experienced and he'll want me to leave and I won't be able to hide my disappointment/sadness.

Is really the only fault here with me and my overreacting or not being able to "go with the flow". I've always been the one on the other side, asking my boyfriends for more space, etc. Nobody ever complained about me pressuring them, not giving space or anything of that sort. How can I "go with the flow" when he treats me so amazing, only to take it away for no reason? I'm not a robot with no feelings for him that I can just hide my disappointment. Isn't it human/natural to experience it? I don't even make him feel guilty about it by nagging or accusing or anything of that sort. I just can't hide my emotions! Am I supposed to just wait for him to come around, which may never happen? And when he keeps telling me himself how he can't be with me. I need some reassuring, too! I can't just keep giving HIM reassurance.

I really don't see how I can commit 100% (tough to undo though because my heart is head over heels in love), when after the most beautiful day, he gives me a handshake just so his colleagues won't suspect anything, which they already (unless they're blind) do anyway!
 
Last edited:
G

gorillagirl

Guest
He sounds like an Aspie (running hot and cold moment to moment). Are you sure he doesn't have Asperger's Syndrome?
Remember, alotta people just freeze when they are under (perceived) pressure. He does sound quirky and non committal.
 

TheRomantic

New member
I am not sure, gorillagirl. It's entirely possible. When it's the wrong time to talk about his emotions (and it is most of the time), he gets very anxious/nervous and starts being fidgety and moving his wrist in a circular motion and stretching his fingers in and out (he does have arthritis, so maybe he feels it more when he is emotionally distraught).

He also told me over tea on Sunday (we started talking about us, which is strange enough to be able to do that in a peaceful fashion) that he feels a whole range of complex emotions towards the relationship/situation and that it is not that he does not WANT to tell me more details, but that he is simply INCAPABLE of doing so, partially because he doesn't know himself what exactly he feels and partially because talking about emotions makes him really anxious.

Anyhow, we had an amazing Saturday and a wonderful Sunday and an argument at the end of Sunday (as I had feared), which ended in him screaming and me crying. It was all innocent enough. We spent the whole Saturday and the whole Sunday together and at the end of Sunday, we watched a movie. After the movie (around 9:30pm), I kind of dragged out the leaving because it was just so cosy and he felt that he had already given me so much and that nothing is ever enough for me. I felt he was overreacting, because I told him how much I appreciate all the lovely things he did for me over the weekend; I was simply still snuggled up to him and told him how cosy it is and how I don't feel like getting up. I guess this made him feel pressure to offer that I stay the night. But that wasn't my intention. Anyway, our conversation spiralled down and grew into a big argument.

The next morning I woke up with a text message, where he apologized for losing his temper and said he hopes I will forgive him. He also said that he feels that in a lot of the aspects of his life, he has disappointed his parents (who are now both dead) and he feels that he needs to fix that and come to terms with his life and/or make some changes. He told me he will need space for that, even (or especially) when his sabbatical starts in six weeks. I guess he is afraid that he will spend a good chunk of his sabbatical being with me and not having resolved what he needed to resolve. I understand this fear and told him that I will endeavour to be supportive of what he needs to do by himself, but I don't think he believed me.
 
Top