two questions by an intergen gay couple. Will you help us in our project?

[DostalerLamond]

two questions by an intergen gay couple for an intergen flag project.

Hello Ageless-Love users and admins !

I have two questions!

I'm 31 and my partner 67. We are two french men from Québec (Canada), sorry for my bad english, and we are in a longterm relationship (we considere buying a house and live together for years...). I've always been in longterm relationship with men over 60 and that could be very not easy to assume. I always have two coming out to do, one for being gay and one for the intergen relation. Its better/easier/safer to stay in the two thicknesses door closet and this is how I developed social phobia. We don't have much support from our gay community and we haven't found any other intergen gay couple around.

Question 1 :

I searched but haven't found a proper forum for intergenerational couples for the LGBT community and the emptycloset.com community shows a bit of animosity about intergen couples.

I notice your subforum is for straight both side of the pendulum and that's ok if you don't want to integrate a gay/lesbian subforum but, do you know any forum for us?

There is something on reddit for gay but I feel a lack of activity.


Question 2 :

Have you ever though about designing a flag to represent the «*intergenerational love pride*» (for everyone straight and LGBTs) like every other community does*: LGBTs, Bisexual, Pansexual, Asexual, Transexual, Leather, Bear...
A Storied Glossary of Iconic LGBT Flags and Symbols

Things could be hard to come out of that «*intergen*» closet. This was hard for me and my partner even if our respective families already know we were both gay before and there is multiple posts on your site to prove that its could be hard for straight too. Maybe, with a bit more of visibility, people friends and families will understand easier our preference. Maybe that could help us to recognise and meet other persons or couples in the same situation.

So, me and my partner have started to work on a sign/flag (for everyone, not only gays) and we ask you if you are interested in that project? And if you have some ideas. We did have something done that could give significations but we wish to ear your though firstly.

Thanks,


Olivier and Claude
- DostalerLamonde

 

[fiorinda]

Welcome Olivier (or are you Claude?). I'm on the bus to work right now but I just wanted to say Hi. And I will try to reply more fully later

 

[Slow Worm]

Welcome to Ageless!

This site did have a gay and lesbian specialist section at one time, but I think it was closed down due to lack of use. Most LGBT posters here seemed to prefer posting in the main fora.

Concerning a flag, no-one has raised that point before, probably for two reasons:
- people in AGR's are not as clearly distinct from the mainstream as the gay & lesbian community. I can imagine all sorts of silly disputes over how far apart a couple's ages should be before they should count as a 'proper' AGR and be entitled to fly the flag.
- people in straight AGR's have not generally encountered the sorts of prejudice and hostility frequently inflicted upon those in gay and lesbian relationships, and so don't feel the same sense of community.

Many frequenters of this forum would probably not count as being in intergenerational relationships - I seem to recall a survey a few years ago which found that the commonest age gap among us was 14 years.

 

[SheLikesKitties]

Hello, and welcome. As SW said, we did have a section for the LGBT, but it did not move at all. Both sides of the board here are friendly and it really does not matter in which one you post. Most of us post in either side if the topic interests us. Some of us have been in both sides of the board, and we have had some LGBT members.

About flags.
I am only speaking for myself, but I do not think that we really have a "cause" that merits a flag or a movement. We can legally marry, most of us have no problems with the outside world. The only reason I even remember I am in an AGR is because I am a moderator in this forum, otherwise the age gap would be transparent to me. We have a 21 year old gap, and we have been together for 12 years.

In our experience people of the age of the older partner are more accepting than the younger crowd. Maybe you should try to hang out with people in their 60s or late 50s?

Do you feel that men in their 60s or 50s consider you (37) a threat?

 

[fiorinda]

^^ What they said!

I don't think we really need an AGR flag.

How would someone define an Age Gap Relationship (or 'intergenerational' as you call them)?

When we were planning our wedding last year I was on the Offbeat Brides forum and started a thread about AGRs. It got comments from people in relationships with age gaps as small as 4 or 5 years, but those couples did consider themselves to be in an AGR and many had put up with negativity from friends and family about it. Personally, as someone married to a man 24 years younger than me, I wouldn't consider anything less than 10 years to be a significant age gap, and the significance changes as the people in the relationship get older. So a 60 year old and a 50 year old would raise a lot fewer eyebrows than a 30 year old with a 20 year old would.

As long as both parties are of age in their country, there are no legal bars anywhere on age gap couples marrying. Whilst they may get some negativity from people close to them at first, any reservations are almost sure to disappear as the relationship proves itself over time. People are generally not prejudiced against age gap relationships per se, they might just worry about someone they care about being in one, for a while.

People in LGBT relationships are assured none of these benefits, so while there might seem to be superficial similarities in some of the prejudice experienced, I don't think it really compares. Having said that, while there are many people and organisations campaigning for the rights of LGBT people and working to educate others and banish prejudice, there isn't anyone really doing that for AGRs. I'm reminded of the video doing the rounds recently on social media, the skeleton couples and families dancing behind a screen. All kinds of relationships were represented in it, with the notable exception of Age Gap relationships.

I had wondered why there are no boards for LGBT people on this forum. I'm not aware of any LGBT people active on the forums, but I don't know if that's just because there aren't or because there are no LGBT boards! Maybe they should be reinstated. Then people might feel more inclined to use them and not just go away thinking that Ageless is not for them! Perhaps you could ask the admins to reinstate those boards, Olivier. You might find that you meet some new friends on them. I suspect that having contact with other LGBT couples in AGRs would be very positive for you!

I don't agree at all that there is less tolerance from people of the older partner's age group. It's been my experience that most negativity came from my peer aged friends, and the least from my husband's friends and my own much younger friends.

 

[DostalerLamond]

Thanks for the welcomes and the feedbacks.
I get what you all mean by "we have no cause so we don't have to milite for rights". I've been pretty alone in that situation since so many years that I haven't considered this fact haha. Well, it was a great project to achieve for me and my partner, that was amusing to design a flag to interpret our love.

For the lgbt subforum, well, that sadden me, I think I'll stick to the reddit group wich I find quite messy, not very active cause probably hard to find on the net when you are searching for intergen AGR forums.

I considere an intergen relationship at least 15 years of gap cause the humans could start to reproduce around 15. But I’ve already seen somewhere that 10 years could now be considered intergenerational as the life goes so fast today with all the technological advancement.

For the friends, we'll try your suggestion about trying in the older side of the community.

Have a nice weekend everyone

 

[SheLikesKitties]

AGRs are so individually unique, that we could all have different symbols for our love. Those symbols would depend on the odds we had to overcome, or on the dreams we have.

You and your partner could create your own flag that reflects your own challenges, a flag that would be for you two to unite under.

My initial pictorial concept of our relationship was two people in front of computers in different parts of the globe, a globe filled with millions of people in front of computers except that his and my computer(s) were linked with a ribbon that ended in a heart.
It's corny, I know, but I feel that our relationship overcame the laws of probabilities where the age gap was only one of them.

I hope that you still feel that you could discuss here and obtain support for relationship issues. It does not matter if they are related to the age gap, or the sexual preference, or whatever you feel you want to share. :yes:

 

[DostalerLamond]

yeah, sure!
I'll try to stick around too :bgrin2:
your interpretation was cool, I easily guess that you met your lover far away on the net!

 

[theREALTrish]

AGRs are so individually unique, that we could all have different symbols for our love. Those symbols would depend on the odds we had to overcome, or on the dreams we have.

You and your partner could create your own flag that reflects your own challenges, a flag that would be for you two to unite under.

My initial pictorial concept of our relationship was two people in front of computers in different parts of the globe, a globe filled with millions of people in front of computers except that his and my computer(s) were linked with a ribbon that ended in a heart.
It's corny, I know, but I feel that our relationship overcame the laws of probabilities where the age gap was only one of them.

I hope that you still feel that you could discuss here and obtain support for relationship issues. It does not matter if they are related to the age gap, or the sexual preference, or whatever you feel you want to share. :yes:

I love your description of the computers linked together with a ribbon and a heart. I never envisioned it like that before. My LDR ended in March when my love passed away because of his Primary Progressive MS. Now I'll imagine our spirits linked with that ribbon and heart. Thank you for that beautiful metaphor, SLK.

 

[SummerBob]

- people in AGR's are not as clearly distinct from the mainstream as the gay & lesbian community. I can imagine all sorts of silly disputes over how far apart a couple's ages should be before they should count as a 'proper' AGR and be entitled to fly the flag.

More importantly, people in the straight AGR community have never had laws against what we do (that is, for people who are both over 18), so we don't face legal prejudice. With no law against us, there's nothing to protest, so a flag and a "pride movement" is kind of pointless. You can't protest people opinions, they have a right to them just like you do, and they have no authority over you anyway.

Also, the AGR community is divided into two main groups (older women/young men, young women/older men) and a plethora of sub-groups based on the magnitude of the age gap, circumstances under which we met, whether the age gap was preferred or just happened, etc. So, we're much more widely varied.

That being said, I once thought of an image of a holly and a rose, or something like that (to represent "May December" love) might work. I think I actually experimented with icons at one time, but was never happy with anything I came up with. In the end it was all corny!

 

[SheLikesKitties]

yeah, sure!
I'll try to stick around too :bgrin2:
your interpretation was cool, I easily guess that you met your lover far away on the net!

We met in a chatroom. It was not a dating site, just a place with many different chat rooms. His handle was Papadoc, and I approached him because I figured that he was:
1. Older and knowledgeable enough to know who Papadoc Duvalier was
2. Interested in obscure foreign politics
3. With a bit of a dark side to choose such a handle (it was rumored PD delved into voodoo).

It turned out that Papadoc was the name of a rival rapper in an Eminem movie (guess *I* was not knowledgeable enough of pop culture)... and he had never heard of Papadoc Duvalier.

But... despite his young age at the time (23), he was interested in foreign politics and he did have a dark side (we both love horror movies and unusual stories). So at the end it was all good.

 

[SummerBob]

There you go, how about this for our "flag"?

 

[DostalerLamond]

With no law against us, there's nothing to protest, so a flag and a "pride movement" is kind of pointless. You can't protest people opinions, they have a right to them just like you do, and they have no authority over you anyway.

I don't know if asexual, bi and pan have something to protest thought... maybe to be accepted in the society to have the right to have no sex or have sex with both sexes or with everyone... (I don't want to diminish their situations here, I just try to understand). I easily understand why there is an lgbt flag and a trans flag, but bears? leather? Those are flags to underline a sense of community... but us, AGR, we don't have a community, like intercultural/racial couples. My sister is caucasian (like me) but his husband is a black man from Congo and they both had an hard time to be accepted by friends/relatives/familly... But how I see this, I don't think my sister need a flag neither...
In fact, with your comments, this is what that has helped me the most to go deeper in my reflexions.

Going backward, we were just searching something that can help intergen couples (everyone, straight/lgbts) to gain visibility and more acceptance in the society. To show that we exist and we are not alone in that situation... maybe a bit like asexual and bi/pan...
That could be hard to meet your partner familly when his children/parents are around your age... That hurts when someone think you are his child or he is your father/uncle and you still try to hide your relation cause too awkward for them. I'm gay and that was hard to accept, trust me. I'm with an older man and that was hard to accept for me and my/his familly (just want to add that everything goes better today). I don't have friends and we are both seeking for friends living in a similar situation. The flag was also supposed to help us finding other couples and to rally.

I now understand that, for me, it was just a matter of self-acceptance VS what others think. I'm actually working on this (in my head haha). LGBTs tend to rally under different banners to search for visibility and acceptance and since I've always been in the lgbt community, I was doing the same, searching to define myself in the lgbt community, and the society where in both there is more or less acceptance of my preference for older men...

We did made a flag, and that flag represent very well our love. We made it in order to represent any may-december love but since my first post here, I'm now miles away in my reflexions and life projects.

Our flag + info


SheLikesKitties : That was a cute story haha.

SummerBob : your flag for agelesslove forum?


Thanks for the replies everyone! That has made me grow.

 

[theREALTrish]

Intergenerational gay couples

That is a very cool flag! I love the symbolism of the colors.

 

[SummerBob]

I don't know if asexual, bi and pan have something to protest thought... maybe to be accepted in the society...

SummerBob : your flag for agelesslove forum?

You could certainly argue that we still have "rights" to fight for, even if there is no law. We could still be discriminated against, treated unfairly in the workplace or our communities, or even harassed. All of that could still happen.

People have been fighting against age discrimination in general for decades. It's against the law for an employer to not hire you or terminate you "because of your age". Nevertheless, they make up a million excuses and claim it's for other reasons, so it's near impossible to prove age discrimination. Also, since younger employees are paid less in general, it's hard to argue that they should keep you at your salary and not find someone less expensive, so it's almost impossible to enforce.

As for the flag, it was just something I made up for fun. But if you want to design a flag for our page I would be all for it. I think it would be cool to have an official "age-gap relationship" flag.

If I recall, gays went through several iterations ... first the pink triangle, then the pink lambda, and finally the rainbow flag.

 

[Shayshasha]

Is there a same sex thread I can post on?

Shay